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Obama Bows again!

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Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
How will the whitehouse play this one off? this guy is a boob. There was a thread on his previous bow, but I wasn't bringing that one back. Thoughts. MacArthur is rolling in his grave haha

http://www.latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html
Nov 14 2009 11:57AM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
i feel like the most ironic part of this tirade that you're bent on is the fact that no matter what your argument ends up about, you are the main issue here.

its not that everyone in japan and the world is like oh hey Obama just bowed to the emperor of Japan well i guess we have even more reason to hate America and even more reason to want to invade because they are submitting to the such a weak and frivolous country

its the fact that somehow through your argument about how awful Obama's gesture was, you went off on a rant about AMURRICA and its inventions.

if it wasn't for your repeated references to the fact that you were asian i would have assumed u were just another white super religious pro-gun palin loving redneck from the bible belt who has no concept of respect outside of shaking the hand of their local pastor. (/awful stereotype)

so as much as glenn beck keeps telling you otherwise - its not obama thats ruining the view of america to the world, its the people like you, who think "shit america is the best everyone else is shit look how fucking great we are, respect is a non issue" that make the rest of the world hate us

OUR president bowed as a sign of respect. end of fucking story.

lease stop, its annoying.
Nov 19 2009 4:58PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
thats political hierarchy that applies to the country itself.

are you saying the American President ought to publically gesture that the Emperor (please learn to spell emperor, who incidentally has not been the highest status of anything other than tradition for 65 years) of Japan, a purely firgurehead position is higher in status than the President, who also serves as head of state in conjunction with chief executive and thus represents the United States as a whole?

I think you would just as quickly like to see the President kiss the queens feet? Or apologizing for the American Revolution?
Nov 19 2009 4:59PM
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[BRI]noceros
Posts: 2319 - Karma: 40
thank you.
Nov 19 2009 4:59PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
right i started that argument! No it wasn't Ohmybosh.

Jesus even when I push you guys into a corner, you guys still find ways to make retarded comments.

Not once did i ever discuss America's superiority over other countries until OhMyBosh talked about how he was glad not to be American and how he thought our concern over our political image was pathetic.

I said i was asian in response to repeated implied attacks that i have not been to japan or have no direct relationship with asia.

Even when you have exhausted your entire, albiet very limited, knowledge of history and politics, rather than concede defeat, you try to attack me.

You only try to attack me because im right and youre wrong, much the way other ocuntries attack america because theyre number 1 in (sadly) the only metric that truly matters across all cultures-- power.
Nov 19 2009 5:02PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9642 - Karma: 154
ITT: Socially ignorant fucktards who have never been to another country.
Nov 19 2009 5:02PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
yes. 

and i don't understand what your deal is with japan?  are you still sore about nanking or something?

get over it.

you have bases in their country which are strategically important.  many people want the bases out.  the least obama could do is win some hearts and minds to appease the japanese elites who think they are intellectual superior to their western counterparts.
Nov 19 2009 5:04PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
hahaha dude

thats exactly what i said.  not sure if you saw. 

kind of funny actually.
Nov 19 2009 5:05PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
Our President intended to show respect but what actually transpired was beyond his own intent.

Fact of the matter is, the gesture was inappropriate, despite intent, for the President of the United States.

End of Fucking story.

Rather than actually attempt to debate the issue upon its merit, you fucking idiots who claim moral superiority, only try to attack me, or the character of the United States.

You have nothing to say on the subject itself, the only thing you have to say is that 1. Im a douchebag, and 2. Everyone in the US is arrogant.

Let me tell you something:

1. I am a douchebag because despite my best efforts to remain neutral and civil, someone always says something with anti-american subtext. As a Socratic scholar, i feel it is my duty to challenge their simple subtextual idiom ,which has the power to inadvertantly influence many young impressionable minds, and see if the original authro can actually elaborate what he condensed into 1 sentence

More often than not, that author can not substantiate his subtextual assertions and in the process i end up looking like a douchebag.

2. I am not only cognitively more capable than you, but my knowledge on the subject matter is greater than all of NS combined. This is nothing against you, it is simply a product of my education, my sharper than average memory, and me being asian. I know its a hard fact to swallow, and if you don't try to challenge my intelligence, i won't challenge yours. But once you open up the can of worms , you cant accept the truth.

3. Instead of being one of these idiotic liberals, try becoming a smarter liberal like Drew., or P-Face, or Ben. They actually read, learn history, etc, and the debate becomes much more useful.
Nov 19 2009 5:07PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
i didnt attack you, im just clarifying that your clouded view of reality is a major part of the reason why everyone else hates us.

you have an ever-present tone of asshole to mostly all of your comments, this thread being no different.

you have an obvious superiority complex from said comments.

but i digress.

it all boils down to what i said, and the fact that im comfortable with my president showing a sign of respect while in another country. you have reasons otherwise. its all subjective anyway but you going on screaming at folks saying how you are obviously right and using big words like "power" and "the" continues to keep you in the sector of the american population that makes me feel bad for the shit our president has to deal with when he visits other countries.

so again

please stop.
Nov 19 2009 5:09PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
get over yourself.

that whole entire post lacked substance.  all you tried to do was say you were intellectually superior to anyone in this thread, but you didn't even stay on topic.   a lot of big words though.  should i be intimidated? not sure.
Nov 19 2009 5:11PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
hahaha fuck you dude i lost again. someone screen cap this please
Nov 19 2009 5:11PM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
Fuck nationalism, fuck Japan, fuck the USA, fuck these social customs, fuck this anthropocentrist mindset. Seriously. You people all need to rethink your existence and how much this all really matters.
Nov 19 2009 5:11PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
this thread is now about:

Click for larger image

:)
Nov 19 2009 5:12PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
yea bro because being indifferent and apathetic is cool. 


Nov 19 2009 5:14PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
My grandfather, my fathers' father was in a Japanese prison until my father was 8.

We have bases in their country because they, rather than withhold from invading China and reforming their own domestic economy, decided to bomb Pearl Harbor on December 7th 1941.

We built literally everything, from infrastructure, to government structure, to economic sustainability that Japan claims prominence.

For that, I believe our bases, a small sovereign and autonomous area of land, are the least they could concede for turning a European conflict into a full fledge World War.

This is the lack of historical perspective I complain about: What do you think we owe Japan? If anything, Japan owes the US much much more for developing everything short of population of modern Japan.


And my problem is with the Emporer, not the Prime Minister or any of the operating components of the Government of Japan. The Emperor, for the 50th time, represents pre-WW2 Japan, a state who was allies with Nazi Germany.

Jesus if i have to make the distinction between chief executive and head of state, emperor and prime minister, pre-ww2 japan and modern japan, again....
Nov 19 2009 5:14PM
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fivefootthree
Posts: 371 - Karma: 31
the only problem with obama bowing to japan is that he bowed lower than the emperor. yes he was showing respect but when you bow lower than the other person, you are basically saying that you are lesser to the other person.  i have nothing against obama but when you are going by some other countries customs atleast get it right.
Nov 19 2009 5:16PM
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AMD_5
Posts: 745 - Karma: 15
your making it seem like Obama bowing to the Emperor is the equivalent of Obama giving an open invitation to come and conquer America.

get the fuck over yourself. IT DOESNT MATTER.

go watch some glen beck shit about how Obama is a communist. it will make you feel better


Nov 19 2009 5:19PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
my point was, instead of calling me an asshole for claiming intellectual superiority based on the thusfar empirical evidence, why not challenge my intellectual superiority with substantiated rebuttals?

Sometimes i try to invoke a reaction from the left just to see where theyre at, but in the absence of the maybe 3 intelligent liberals ive ever encountered on this site, all i get is this bullshit.

"ju youre an asshole with a superiority complex"

Thats the response i get to:

"youre a fucking idiot. there is a difference between emperor and prime minister, head of state and chief executive, government of japan and traditional figureheads, modern japan and traditional japan, japan as a state and japan as a nation."

which is in response to the original post,

"im glad im not an american. youre concern is pathetic. conservatives are dumb. i'm 15"
Nov 19 2009 5:20PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
qft.

already said that, but it was drowned out in the ad hominem white noise these "liberals" make.
Nov 19 2009 5:21PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
The biggest issue with how he bowed was he showed the back of his neck to the Emperor, that was way too low cause when you bow in Japan you should be able to make some sort of eye contact. Showing your neck is what the Samurai did before they were beheaded.
Nov 19 2009 5:24PM
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AMD_5
Posts: 745 - Karma: 15
Umm arrogant much?

How about the fact that America dropped 2 fucking nuclear bombs on 2 major citites? How about the fact that America bombed Nagasaki after already assraping Hirsohima? It wasnt fucking warranted, and if you wanna argue against that, you're a bigger idiot than I thought you were.

So if Obama were to apologize for dropping the atom bomb, would that be considered showing weakness too?

I already had you at 0/10
Nov 19 2009 5:24PM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
I'm not apathetic nor indifferent, in fact I have very strong opinions about the system that we live in today. Do you really believe that humans are the most important life species on the planet? Don't you realize that because we have placed ourselves above all other life forms that we are parasitically destroying everything around us?

And you all are so self-absorbed in your idiotic politics and whether one man should or should not have bowed down to another man. It seems silly to me.
Nov 19 2009 5:25PM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
white noise = rational argument?
Nov 19 2009 5:27PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
And one thing to think about.

The firebombings of Tokyo killed FAR more people than the two atomic bombs killed together. It was just the atomic bomb killed them so fast.
Nov 19 2009 5:27PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
let me say this. i do not even want to try and comprehend the number of American lives lost. had we not dropped the bombs. and consequently had attempted to take Japan by landing men on the beaches.
Nov 19 2009 5:28PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
again, clearly you don't read. all im looking for is substantiated rational argument.

all i get are ad hominem character inquiries.

ive put a lot of historical and political ideas and knowledge on the table. i have yet to recieve the same.

For every one historical fact i give, i get 3 "youre an asshole"

For every one political idea (not one i made up, one you can find in every text book) i get nothing but crickets.
Nov 19 2009 5:29PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
i couldn't really care about your grandfather and what he had to deal with it.  those were at the hands of the japanese during that generation, which was a different society back then. 

perhaps we had an obligation to help japan recover from the war.  how would america look if we didn't?  what about the soviet union?  how vulnerable could they have been to them after the war?  ie what the marshall plan did for europe.

although even with american help japan still suffered from inflation and a weak economy up until the korean war came along.

japan doesn't owe us anything and just because we helped them doesn't give us the right to put bases on their land.  they are a soverign nation.

and your arguement with the emperor is ridiculous.  if you say that the emperor represents pre ww2 japan which was xenophobic and nationalistic, then that is like saying that the monarchy in england still represents british imperialism and exploitation of foreign people.

i think you forget that macarthur allowed the emperor in japan to continue his rule because it would be helpful to pass along initiatives in japan that were necessary for reconstruction.



Nov 19 2009 5:29PM
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AMD_5
Posts: 745 - Karma: 15
Ahh, but thats where you are partially incorrect. The bombing of Hiroshima was justifiable, if you can even say that for such a horrible act.

The point is, after bombing Hiroshima you guys pretty much owned Japan. The bombing of Nagasaki was just pointless and should not have happened. It is the equivalent of kicking someone when they're down.

Not cool, as I think you'll agree.
Nov 19 2009 5:33PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
no, but i don't understand what it has to do with this thread.

if we were discussing human interaction with our natural world then your comment would be totally understandable. 

but we are talking about the difference between countries customs here.

and yes bro i agree, save the whales.
Nov 19 2009 5:34PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
haha must have been a really slow news week or something
Nov 19 2009 5:34PM
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AMD_5
Posts: 745 - Karma: 15
exactly what I was thinking
Nov 19 2009 5:35PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
Firstly, the television was invented by John Logie Baird, he is Scottish.
Refrigerator invented by William Cullen, also Scottish.
Internet... British ... (there goes your best one)... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Tim_Berners-Lee
Without Michael Faraday you wouldnt have a radio... infact the world's first radio station was in Britain...


youre fucking retarded. penecilin is one of the most imporant achievments in medicine., Without it antibiotics wouldnt fucking exist.
Yes a fucking internal combustion engine is more important than a fucking assembly line... because nobody would make a fucking car without one. Youre a fucking tool for suggesting that english inventions arent more important than the shit America has come up with.
Stop acting as if nobody else was inventing these things you mention at the same time. Its not like American suddenly got all these great ideas and everyone else is fucking bashing rocks together. Without some of the inventions i have mentioned you wouldnt be fucking alive you ignorant little cunt.

Yeah i guess you guys would be doing fine without Bridges, railways, gas lighting, steam engines, electro-magnetism, steamboats, steel, television, fax machines, ultrasounds, MRIs, insulin, selective breeding, dna sequencing, alumininium, solar power, fuel cells, meteorology, typewriter, pretty much everything to do with making clothes, fingerprinting, gas turbine, steam turbines, LEDs, jet engines, stainless steel, smallpox vaccine, blood transfusions, video cameras, atomic theory, submarines, parachutes, commercial jets, linoleum, plastic, silicone etc. etc.

Yeah fuck Britain and everyone else... amuuurrrrrrica can do it all by itself.
dumb cunt.
Nov 19 2009 5:39PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
wowwwwwwwwwwww

AMD_5 Please let me know you will at least respond to this post.

Ok this is exactly what i'm talking about. How instead of actually doing your homework, you are quick to attack and label me as arrogant without so much as providing one piece of substantial evidence.

Now youre just making shit up.

This is your claim: We assraped Hiropshima so our dropping of fat man on Nagasaki was unjustified.

Here is my civil rebuttal:
1. I would question "ass rape." Bombing cities was considered conventional warfare back then, and the killing of 100,000 - 150,000 civilians in one ariel attack through the use of inferno bombing was commonplace during WW2. We killed around 66,000 people with little boy.

2. We gave the Japanese government an ultimatum to surrender within 2 days. They adamantly rejected. On August 9th, 3 days after Hiroshima we dropped fat man on nagasaki. We did this to end a war which was being faught exclusively against Japan at this point. They were very unwilling to surrender.

3. President Harry S. Truman again gave Japan an ultimatum to surrender or a 3rd bomb would be dropped. By this point the Emperor of Japan had come to his senses and intended to surrender that same day. Ironically he had done such a good job of entrenching the idea of nationalism and pride with his people that the Japanese high command staged a coup against him to prevent surrender. The people of japan was 100% devoted to fighting to the death until either all the resources of Japan or the United States were exhausted. The coup failed, and the surrender succeeded.

This unwillingness to surrender is also demonstrated through the use of kamakazis towards the end of the war.


So based on the historical evidence, based on the complete unwillingness to surrender, based on the rape of nanking, based on the MILLIONS of young american men being mutilated in the pacific, based on the need to end the world war, based on the surrenderance of Nazi Germany, you believe that the 2nd bombing of Japan was unwarranted?

What would your battle plans have been?
Nov 19 2009 5:39PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
theres hope for you yet.


several other presidents have bowed to japanese leaders as well.

ike was one of them i know, i forget the other one.

and bush puked on their PM
Nov 19 2009 5:40PM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
It has to do with this thread in the fact that the original poster even posted about this in the first place. I mean goddamn you people are at each others throats about a guy putting his head lower than another person's as a sign of respect. What is wrong with showing respect to someone else?

They're just two men, I'm sure the emperor of Japan understands this and so does Obama. They treat each other as equals. If you want to get political about it, then Obama isn't 'backing down' or anything of that sort. Stop making such a big deal out of nothing.
Nov 19 2009 5:41PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
had this discussion in my modern asia class today. wasnt necessary.
Nov 19 2009 5:43PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
he definitely did some research

The customary greeting is the bow. However, some Japanese may greet you with a handshake, albeit a weak one. Do not misinterpret a weak handshake as an indication of character.

If you are greeted with a bow, return with a bow as low as the one you received. How low you bow determines the status of the relationship between you and the other individual. When you bow keep your eyes low and your palms flat next to your thighs. The business card should be given after the bow. This is very important to remember.
Nov 19 2009 5:43PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
... we defeated them in a war they started... how does that not give us the right to place bases on their land? Their sovereignty only exists due to our benevolence.

If they don't owe us bases for attempting to invade our country, for letting them retain their sovereignty, for helping them recover, what does anyone owe anything for?

mcaruthur allowed the emperor of japan to rule because Emperor Hirohito had unconditionally surrendered to the terms onboard the USS missouri.
Nov 19 2009 5:44PM
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BEARS.
Posts: 5380 - Karma: 696
my god. he should be dragged out into the street and shot.
Nov 19 2009 5:44PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
ike, bush, and nixon are presidents that have bowed to japanese leaders.

They gave what the state department calls the "slight bow" more or less a head bow equivalent to a handshake to signify respect.

Obama gave a full torso bow, which considering the importance the japanese people place upon the degree of... bowage?, can be easily construed to be a submissive gesture.
Nov 19 2009 5:46PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
true. i honestly dont think its the end of the world though.



waht i really wanna know is after the last one, how did he manage to fuck this up AGAIN lol
Nov 19 2009 5:47PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
What the fuck are you talking about? You dont have the right to go build bases in another country just because you beat them in a fucking war.
You dont see England going over to fucking Germany and building a bunch of shit there. You are the reason why everyone hates America.
Nov 19 2009 5:47PM
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[BRI]noceros
Posts: 2319 - Karma: 40
so are you saying that Obama is worse then Nixon? is that it? just checking.
i love how earlier you said that you were the only one having rational arguments, when really you've just repeated yourself about 100 times, and everyone else has added in reasonable and fresh arguments
your move sir
Nov 19 2009 5:50PM
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Flozz
Posts: 144 - Karma: 13
as a NS rookie and non american, its good to see who the "even Americas shit smells good" types are. even better to see that most of you guys are chill as fuck, and prove obnoxious American stereotype wrong. (You guys remind me of the USAers i met on exchange in Germany - fucking cool guys)

but what does my opinion matter i'm just another peasant from an inferior country which didn't happen to invent a fucking fridge haha jk.

New Zealand - Fuck yea
Nov 19 2009 5:51PM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
who gives a shit? no japanese person is thinking "obama gave us slightly more respect than was necessary, that means we should bomb them!"

and doesnt japan not even have an army?
Nov 19 2009 5:51PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
you have 2 posts and i already like you lol
Nov 19 2009 5:52PM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
speaking of germany and everyone hating america, we still have a little less than 70,000 troops in germany. just puttin that out there
Nov 19 2009 5:55PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
oh well... at least i won the invention argument.
Nov 19 2009 5:57PM
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AMD_5
Posts: 745 - Karma: 15
Well obviously bombing cities was the norm. But I think you're missing the point. You dropped an ATOMIC BOMB on a city. The number of people who died instantly is actually between 70,000-80,000. And it seriously injured at least another 70,000. That doesnt include the countless people who died after the fact, from various after effects of the bombing. At least 200,000 people died by 1950.

And explain this, its a well known fact that the US dropped flyers warining of air raids on at least 10 occasions. There was no such warning for Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

So let me pose a question to you. Is instantly incinerating about 30% of a city's population and killing about 130,000 more people just an average toll? You do realize that you are talking about at least 200,000 human lives. That's not a trivial thing, as I hope you can agree.


In terms of the second bombing, im not a fucking military strategist so I dont know what I would have done. But you dont have to be a military strategist to know that it could have been done differently, without killing 80,000 men, women and children.


Frankly sir, I'm done with you. I have a shitload of other things to worry about right now. If you want to have an educated debate about this in the future, i'm down for that. But apparently, I can't even get you to think about the other side of the argument, so i'm not gonna waste my breath. Someone else can type up a 2500 word essay challenging your view.

Good day
Nov 19 2009 5:57PM
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AgentOrange11
Posts: 470 - Karma: 15
seriously?
Nov 19 2009 5:57PM
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