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Help a noobie out.. Hellbents vs. Czar vs. S7,S6,S3

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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11

I work in a bike shop and know a ton about bikes and such but dont really know much about skiing stuff so I am asking for help..

Before last season I bought a pair of used Armada Pipecleaners anticipating to be in the park alot more then I was last year.. I ended up skiing 5 runs off piste to every run in the park. this season I was in the shop looking to set my girl up with gear and the guy in there sold me on a pair of 100+ underfoot skis, so I am asking all of you for some help..

about me.. 6'1 165 pounds, very aggressive skier, I ski off the groomed as much as possible (but with a girl this year that may be different) but I am constantly in the air, bonking trees, stumps, pounding 15 foot rocks, I loncon loop, front and back flip, and 3 every thing I can. So I am looking for a ski that floats well in the powder and busts crud, but will also stand up to a 17 year old. I also would kinda like something that would possibly hold its own in the park.. If a pair of skis really does well out of the park I migh be down for keeping the Armada's or buying a $150 pair of park skis.. but my main focus is that i want a rad pair of fattty skis..

so naturally the guy tried to sell me a pair of Hellbents as he sells 50+ pairs of those skis a year and he wanted to sell me those... But the bike shop that I work in sells Salomon and Rossignol XC skis and there for gives me acess to skis at cost on the various other non XC skis that those companies sell.

So guys The Hellbents were sick skis and I really liked all the features like the reverse camber and the uber wide underfoot.. but Looking around I found the Czar and the Rossignol line ( S7, S6, S3) I think that the Hellbent and the Rossignol S7 are both more ski then I would like to ski on the groomed..

the Czar with being 114 underfoot may be a better size.. now I have read up on the new reverse camber and then other stuff but I could stand to have all of it explined to me..

So what should I do?  The Hellbents are $750+, while the Rossi and solomons are going to be significantly less... I just need to be bought up to current ski technology and need some help on what skis I should buy.

So I will let you guys compair the Hellbents, the Czars, and the S7,S6 and S3.

Nov 9 2009 12:38AM
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edd1e
Posts: 679 - Karma: 16
Id probably discount the rossi s7s. The s7 has alot of tip rocker which is good for pow, but it is relatively directional and the mountain position is fairly set back. This means it wont be as good in the park or for goofing around in the BC.

Rockered skis are sick in pow, the tips dive so much less allows you to ski much more centered and they pivot alot easier.(so, so, so sick, hard to explain till you try it). However you will lose some pop because of this.

Of the skis you mention I would get the Czars. They have a rockered tip which means they'll ski truer to their actual length, on hardpack, unlike a hellbent which will feel extremely short in hard conditions. The Czar does not have a tail rocker which means landing switch in deep pow might be a bit harder. But they charge (stiffer flex) and will be more manageable in the park.

If you want a very jibby, buttery, deep pow ski get the Hellbent.

If you want a stiffer charging all mountain ski that will kill it off jumps and deep pow get the Czars (182)
Nov 9 2009 6:00AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
have you skied any of the skis your yapping your trap about?

My guess is no.
Nov 9 2009 11:26AM
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edd1e
Posts: 679 - Karma: 16
my guess would be yes............


I have skied Czars and s7's. No I havent skied Hellbents. Considering I put in at least 100 days in every year, I wouldnt call it yapping my trap. So get fuct....
Nov 9 2009 11:33AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
Well I tend to disagree with just about everything you said about the S7, other then the float well part.
Nov 9 2009 11:42AM
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518
Posts: 187 - Karma: 10
chopsticks?
Nov 9 2009 12:39PM
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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11

Ok cool I knew I wasnt getting the hellbent because of the price.. and I figured that the S7 was to much of a pow only ski. The thing is that i get Rossi and Salomon at cost which is way cheaper then I could get K2 or volkl for.

So I do like the Czars, and I knew the S7 would be to much of a power only ski.. but what about the S6 ? and info and compairisons between the Czars and the S6?

my idea is that the Czars would be more of a off piste ski then the S6 would be but more of a do it all ski.. I am just looking for as much info as possible and opinions on the differences between these skis..

Nov 9 2009 1:35PM
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edd1e
Posts: 679 - Karma: 16
If you spend more time off trail, the czar is gonna be better because of the rocker shape in the tip. Though the s6 is fairly floaty @ 110 underfoot the Czar tips will stay up alot more.

There are alot of guys slaying it in the BC this year in the movies on Salomon Czar.

See Dane Tudor Every Day is a Saturday, also Mark Abma, Mike Douglas, Mike Henituk, Brandon Kelly, Sammy Carlson etc etc. http://



I havent seen any footage of anyone skiing on s6's (most choose s7's)



Nov 9 2009 3:10PM
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edd1e
Posts: 679 - Karma: 16
holy double video post, sorry
Nov 9 2009 3:10PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
Only because they are paid to...

Fuck man, there are people slaying it just as hard as any of those guys on both the Hellbent and the s7 (think Pep, Andy, C Ager, Sean Petit, Sage, Treadway, Macintosh, K Peterson, Henrik W)
What people in the movies ski is really irrelevent to how good the skis are, pros are on whichever team offers them the best deal.


The Czar, while no doubt a great ski, has more contact surface behind the binding then in front of it. Which can be kinda weird.

As someone who is fortunate enough to get to ski most new skis. I am going to say that the s7 shape is the best all round fat/rocker design out there. (Pst get ON3P Billy Goats), unless you want to do more freestyle stuff, in which case it is the JJ or Blog.
Nov 9 2009 5:38PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
At your size get the 195 s7 and keep a park ski.
Nov 9 2009 5:40PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
pst (its not)



Nov 9 2009 5:42PM
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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11

Well as of right now I am waiting on my price for these skis so that will definatly play some role in what I go with.. but Why the S7 over the Czars? And why the Czars over the S7?  I would guess that the S7 would play better in the Pow, but what about on the groomed and ocasionally in the park? granted I wont be there much but I still want a ski to ski groomed well..

What about skiing switch too.. I would love to be able to stomp switch into pow.. I had a hard time with it on my Armadas. Any compairisons on the switch skiing that these skis have to offer?

Nov 9 2009 7:28PM
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ReetsAdeets
Posts: 1531 - Karma: 611
The skiing that you're talking about seems more like bc jibbing, so I think hellbents would be good. I have them and I love them. The Czars are quite stiff, and don't ski like a fatty, they feel like a 90 something ski. This is definitely a plus on groomers, as I mentioned, they are quite stiff, and not as fat with less rocker in the nose and none in the tail. They are more of a big mountain charging ski. The hellbents are super fun in the park, are softer for a more playful feel all over, and more suited to the type of skiing you described. You might check out the EP Pros also. The S7s are a bit stiffer than the Hellbents, but much more tapered, so they wont ride switch as will. From the type of skiing that you described, Hellbents seem like the best out of those options. You should also look at the Volkl Chopstick, the Line EP Pro, Line Sir Francis Bacon, and Armada JJ before you make your final decision.
Nov 9 2009 9:56PM
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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11

I loved the Hellbents when I was in the skishop.. but I work at a bikeshop and we sell Rossi and Salomon xc skis so that gives me a way to get any Rossi or Salomon planks at cost.. which is a huge factor, as I would take a "lesser" ski from Rossi or Salomon over a Hellbent due to the fact I get them at cost as compaired to retail for anything else..

but thank you for the other sugestions.. the info on the cuts of these skis really helps..   

So Czars, S7, or S6 people? so far I think the Czars are what I am leaning towards.. but Idk the S6 is not quite as big and may fit the one ski quiver.. what do I know tho?  

Nov 9 2009 10:55PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
check out my thread, im in the same boat as you. theres people advising me on a bunch of other skis as well that you might not have thought of yet.
Nov 9 2009 11:19PM
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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11
Thanks.. I can get Rossi or salomon at cost though.. so I am going to go with one of those two for sure.. Good luck on your search.
Nov 9 2009 11:29PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
thanks man, best of luck to you too!
Nov 9 2009 11:55PM
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stevenc
Posts: 162 - Karma: 41
s6 would be a great 1 ski quiver, I skied the steezes (s6 with different much more obnoxious top sheets) 45 days last season.  They skied great in all conditions minus pure ice.  But to be honest, as great as the s6s are, I would really suggest taking advantage of all the new rocker and fun shape technologies out there.  Other then that I havn't skied any other skis that you have mentioned, although I am drooling over the 195 s7s that are supposed to come out real soon.
Nov 10 2009 12:19AM
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K_FRANK
Posts: 513 - Karma: 277

i made this same decision last year between hellbents and czars and i went with the czars my reason being that i ski very variable snowpack and the czar is a stiffer ski that will blast through krud, surf through pow and carve groomers personally im a little oldschool so i belive that skis that are as fat as the hellbents or the s7s are kind of ridiculous and if ur a good enough skiier you should be able to ski pow on anything but its all personal preference good luck deciding.

Nov 10 2009 12:21AM
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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11
 well the czars are exacttly slacking in girth.. haha  they are 111 for the 182's and 114 for the 190s which I am undecided on which I would ski at this point.. and I ski enough varible conditions that I think a stiffer ski would be benificial.. I am just hella stoked on a fatty ski compaired to what I have skied my whole 15 year befor this..  I would rather blast crud then ski groomers personally.  And no matter what anything it going to float better then my Armadas. I am definatly leaning towards the czars..
Nov 10 2009 12:34AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
The czar is not really any narrower then the s7. less then 1/2 cm narrower.

The thing that makes the s7 shape so great is the combination of taper and rocker. The taper keeps the tips from catching, while at the same time reducing unnecessary weight. When your skiing through deeper snow, skis that have a full tradional sidecut, whether rockered or not, tend to catch up on the tips and tails, pulling the skier into a turn, or keeping them locked in to a turn when they want to release and initiate a new turn. The overall result is that the ski tends to do stuff you don't want it to. The tip taper helps keep the ski pointing in the direction you want it to, by avoiding unnecessary edge catching and actually holding the ski in line. The taper in the tail allows the tail to sink in soft snow, enhancing float, as well as allowing the tails of the ski to release from a turn very easily, Overall result is that skiing is easier and more fun.

By having the tip and tail taper, the s7 can have a very generous sidecut, without the ski feeling unstable. This generous side cut allows the s7 to grab an edge on hardpack.

In my opinion the s7 skis hardpack better then the czar does.
Nov 10 2009 1:01AM
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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11

so The S7 will ski hardpack better then the czar, and probably the pow better too.. is it as versitile as the czar? I know that I can ski switch/flip/3/park/pow/huck any skis out there but from my very limited experiance the czar seams to fit the bill better for me then the S7 does I dont see the S7 as a fun mess around ski that would be condusive to a teenage kis.. would you try and talk me out of the Czar? I just want as many opinions as possible..     

Nov 10 2009 1:13AM
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Sun_Ra
Posts: 983 - Karma: 279
Before buying On3p Billy Goat I was in the same situation as you. I don't ski the exact same way as you do(I like jumping and stuff but not to much of a trick guy). It took me quite a long time to figure out what skis I needed. I was really looking forward to buy the Czar but it seemed too much like a charging/straight line ski. The radius is 45m for the 182. That's somewhere between a DH and Super G radius which seems crazy for doing quick turns in tight trees for exemple. If you enjoy going fast and where you ski there's not much trees(on the east coast powder = tight trees most of the time) it's all right. For jibbing around, I've heard good things about the ON3P Caylors. A shape similar to the Hellbent but stiffer and lighter. It has a much shorter turning radius(24m). It's close to symetrical which means they'll be fun to ride switch in powder, more than S7 or Billy Goats. But if you plan on doing mostly forward riding, the S7/Billy Goats are the best because of their tail taper.

Hope it made sense, I'm kinda tired right now
Nov 10 2009 1:17AM
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swan3609
Posts: 99 - Karma: 11

O wow I didnt even pick up on radius.. Thats somthing I definatly need to think about.. but I am pretty much stuck with Rossi or Salomon.. the bike shop I work at can get them at cost.. so its either the Czar or S7/S6/S3.

I actually ski west coast stuff but I am still a tree skiier for sure.. not to many open bowls around where I ski.. and I dont see the S7's skiing switch in powder very well.. but huh that radius kinda threw a loop in there for me.. thanks for the info..  

Nov 10 2009 1:30AM
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Sun_Ra
Posts: 983 - Karma: 279
I haven't tried the Czar, maybe it feels like it has a shorter radius but it seems fucking crazy on paper. The 190 has a 54m radius(a World Cup downhill ski has a radius of about 50m). Maybe someone who has ridden the Czar can give you better infos.
Nov 10 2009 3:09AM
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SkeechyD
Posts: 2026 - Karma: 1,071
Hurray Nick got a a ns account!
Nov 10 2009 7:00PM
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