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Night train vs Hellbent

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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
aright guys i need some help here. im looking for some playful pow sticks that i can take into the park to mess around from time to time. im not very big so i dont need a crazy stiff ski. 5 8 160lbs. probably not going to be hucking massive cliffs, small ones will do and ill be in the trees alot too. i was pretty much set on the hellbents and was about to press the "buy now" button until i read up on the night trains.

i heard they are a bit stiffer than the bents, ALOT lighter, lighter than ep pros? but i also heard that they dont have nearly as much rocker as the bents and that was a slight turn off for me.

anybody help me make a decision here?

Nov 7 2009 6:47AM
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ReedSkis~
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 98
I can verify that the Night Trains are extremely light.
Mine just came in the mail and i'm extremely stoked on them.
NIce medium flex, early taper, rocker (not that much but it looks like enough)
I picked this over a hellbent/ep pro type ski because of the smaller turning radius, which will enable it to make sharper, quicker, smaller turns.

Either way you go you will probably be stoked
Good luck man!
Nov 7 2009 8:29AM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
You will probably be much much happier with the Night Trains when you go into the park because of the smaller rocker and because they are stiffer. Ced claimed them as his new park slaying ski, i think there is an edit of him riding night trains in the park somewhere
Nov 7 2009 10:59AM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
yo dude could you post up some pics of the rocker when they are sitting on the ground or on a table or something. and a picture of the flex? i would greatly appreciate that man.

also, how do the night trains measure up? i know the 179 in bents is more like a 184. hows the measurment on the night trains? i was thinking the 181's would sound the most logical for me to get.
Nov 7 2009 2:20PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65

Lucky you, but EPs have an even smaller radius than Night Trains btw.  I'd so much rather have NTs than EPs or Bents.

NTs are lighter, with taper(which I love in pow skis) and are a bit stiffer(I don't like total noodles, and I'm just going off what I have heard about NTs).  I don't like the look of the rocker on the NTs, but I'm sure it must be pretty good since Moment did it.  Either tip shape(rocker, but with normal tip at the end) will get deflected a bit in crud because the angle the end of the tip is going up isn't going to slice through crud.

Of those two, I would for sure get the Night Trains.  If you want a stiffer, lighter(lightest of all the ski in the pow/jib category) Hellbent shape ski that still turns on a dime and is great in park, LL2s/One Lifes seem to  be that for most people who have spent a lot of time on both.  Hellbents(179):11.2lbs, EP: about 10lbs, NTs: a bit under 9 in 186, LL2 189: 9.3lbs

Nov 7 2009 2:23PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
yeah unfortunately i have never really had a stiff ski so im not sure whether ill like it or not. i had solly 1080's back in the day, then went to fujatives, then to the invaders when they came out. and ive always rented my powder skis when it came down to going out west on a trip. but now that im much closer to the mtns ill be going there alot so i feel the need to buy them.

this is such a tough decision, only because ive actually held and played with the bents in person, and i really have no experience to go off the NT's.

how come theres so little tail rocker on the NT's btw? is there anybody from moment on this site that can chime in? or somebody whos used both skis?
Nov 7 2009 2:32PM
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Tronic
Posts: 236 - Karma: 11
couple posts down.

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/489967/page/3/
Nov 7 2009 2:36PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
also any downfalls to mounting the NT dead center?
Nov 7 2009 2:41PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
herro? i need to make a decision quick because im going to colorado this month and my invaders are not going to cut it.
Nov 7 2009 4:03PM
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ReedSkis~
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 98
I'll post up pics of the NTs soon
Nov 8 2009 12:35AM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65

people who have actually skied NT: http://www.tetongravity.com/FORUMS/showthread.php?t=156125

and I will just say don't get bents.  Unchanged since they came out in 2007, still over 11lbs in a 179...There are so many good pow-jib skis now that Bents aren't so special.  Spinning bents is a bitch(not that it's not possible, you just have to throw anything so much harder and it was fun for a bit but got old).  I'm glad I got LL2s since the shape of bents is decent, but the added stiffness, few cm(about 4, 179 bents are 184s, 189 LL2s are 188s) and 2lbs less is exactly what I would want.

Oh and everybody who skied the CRJs has loved them...I was offered a pair cheap right after I got my LL2s which bugged me a bit, but I'm sure I'll love the LL2s.

Nov 8 2009 12:57PM
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ReetsAdeets
Posts: 1531 - Karma: 611
I know nothing about the NT, sorry. But i can vouch that hellbents ski awesome. I love mine. From what i hearing about the NTs though, I might guess that they are a bit more for charging than booters/bc jibbing, like the Hellbents
Nov 8 2009 1:32PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65

K, I have skied bents, and I will say that Chetlers are better than bents for a pow-jib ski.  Chetlers spin much easier, and have wayy more pop from turn to turn in pow.  If you're paying full price for bents, don't get bents.  Here is the order of what I would want in the pow-jib category, based on what friends have told me and what i have skied.

CRJ, NT, LL2(not sure which I will like most, I'll try to ski all of em this season.  LL2 lightest, then NT.  I wish LL2s had some taper like the other two)
JJs(stiffer Chetlers, I'll ski them this season and decide which I really like more)
Chetlers(fun, poppy but too short, like JJs are(both are 183 true length)
EPs(too damn soft)
Bents(also too soft, but without the good taper of EPs and heaviest of every ski I just named).

Pretty sure new One Lifes(LL2) are cheaper by a few hundred than new Bents.

Nov 8 2009 2:52PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
^thanks for all the info man! the only reason i wasnt looking at the LL2's was because people said they sucked when it came to taking them into the park or groomers for even a little bit. which is what turned me on to the NT. the crj's look and sound sick though. and yeah my shop back home offered me the hellbents for pretty cheap, but not much cheaper than the night trains if i were to get them full price.
Nov 8 2009 3:30PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
also i dont want a ski that is crazy long. how do the night trains measure up at a 181? because i know the bents are at 185 or something not 179...
Nov 8 2009 3:32PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65

I think Moment measures pretty much perfectly, and the 186 or 188 NTs will ski so short, from the rocker but especially the taper will make them turn on a dime, and they will spin fine..  I doubt you'll find many people who have skied them on here.

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/476743/ with a lot of talk about LL2s on groomers.  How big are you and where exactl do you want the ski you get to shine?(other tha powder..)

Nov 8 2009 5:28PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
im 5'8 5'9 ish and usually aroung 155-160. ive been a park rat for the past few years because i havent had any real skiing opportunities, but this year im only a drive away from colorado so i want to do alot of bc/powder runs, fun groomers, maybe take them into park every now and then, mess around on some rails/ boxes.

you think the night trains will do ok center mounted? i really like spinning haha
Nov 8 2009 6:21PM
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GNARBARSTAR
Posts: 639 - Karma: 16
surface new life. that might fit the bill
Nov 8 2009 6:38PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
those are sick, but i think too long for me. keep in mind a 183 towers over my head.
Nov 8 2009 7:04PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65
They probably would, but that doesn't mean you should mount them center.  Talk to Moment about it, but they made them to be mounted a few back, and that is where they will ride best.  I've found that being as close to reco. as possible has been best, even in park(I don't have any center mount skis anymore, and I have Pipe Cleaners, LL2s/One Lifes and WLs that some people would have mounted center).  Spinning at a few back isn't bad, people are full of shit who say that it makes this huge difference, but mounting back(closer to reco. than center) will up the performance of the ski.
Nov 8 2009 11:05PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
yeah i know that, ive just been on center mounted skis for a few years now and i dunno if ill be able to go back haha. you know what im saying?

Nov 9 2009 12:41AM
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sam.gillin
Posts: 905 - Karma: 314
I love my jj's they are 11lbs with griffons in 175. sorry nothing on the nt's. They sound sick though.
Nov 9 2009 1:29PM
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surfpimp2011
Posts: 63 - Karma: 36

how would the nighttrain do on the east coast? (grommers) would it be worth considerring buying this ski??? im also trying to decide on a good pair to buy.

Nov 9 2009 4:24PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
ok so im gonna bring the surface new lifes into the pictures.
Nov 9 2009 10:39PM
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Walkawalka
Posts: 314 - Karma: 43
I skied the CRJs, really lively, fun ski. my vote is for CRJs or NTs.
Nov 9 2009 10:56PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
yeah i like the crj's but im afraid they are too long for me :(

i dont want a ski that is going to be way over my head. if it was a noodle like the bents or ep pros that would be ok, but since the NT's and the CRJ's are pretty stiff from what i hear, id probably want something right around 180.
Nov 9 2009 11:13PM
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Walkawalka
Posts: 314 - Karma: 43
CRJs are available in 180.
Nov 9 2009 11:23PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
shit i did not see that. thanks for letting me know man! i would have not caught that.
Nov 9 2009 11:26PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
get the Moments for sure. I've never liked the hellbents, i think they're ugly and those Moments have DOPE graphics. Sorry, can't really help with a review cuz i've never ridden either since neither is made small enough for me (5'10" 110 lbs haha). Go with the little guy and go big with Moment.
Nov 10 2009 1:00AM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
yeah thats what im leaning towards the most. i just hope they are fun all around even on groomers, and not too stiff. oh well, im ordering night trains. the deed is done.
Nov 10 2009 1:31AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
as far as i know moment doesn't make very stiff skis. all the ones my friends have are really light and soft but not too soft.
Nov 10 2009 6:00PM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 237

I guess you haven't heard of the Moment M1 then. Probably one of the stiffest non race skis around.

Nov 10 2009 6:07PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
aaahh, i forgot about that one. you=correct
Nov 10 2009 6:20PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
i saw some caylors and it got me thinking again. damnit, i think too much.
Nov 10 2009 7:49PM
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abc8tr8we98g
Posts: 498 - Karma: 25
i understand your concerns...i have moment melee's...186 length 135-120-135 rockered in tip and tail very siminlar to the NT and dimensions very close minus the tip and tail taper...took them to copper this past weekend and so it was pure hardpack and ice in the morning and once the sun started to go down...they handled it fine...you kinda have to ski them differently compared to a normal ski but im sure you are aware of that...i had to stay more forward than normal, i couldnt just chill back and make easy turns like a normal park/all mountain ski but they were still a ton of fun...get the night trains and you wont regret it!
Nov 10 2009 9:00PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
thanks for the morale boost maing!
Nov 10 2009 9:20PM
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DBAKE
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 340
BUMP haa, im really really looking into the NT's how are they holding up for you, im not wanting to make a new thread but i know they will slay pow, but how do they handle in the chopped up pow? and also how do they feel in park? did you go centered and how are they ? +K
Mar 15 2010 8:59PM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
what makes you think 180 is to big for you?

I am 5ft7 and ride 183s and they are like perfect length for me.
Mar 15 2010 9:12PM
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MarkieR
Posts: 5337 - Karma: 98
Don't be turned off by the smaller rocker. Big rocker, like that of the Hellbent or EP, while making it easier to ski pow, actually make a ski much slower. It's the same principle that is exhibited on surf boards. Beginner boards have lots of rocker, to make the board forgiving and easy to use, while a gun for big waves is relatively flat. It makes the board a little more difficult to control, but you can go much faster on this design. Same with the skis. That's why you'll notice that more specialized high performance skis, such as the 4frnt EHP or Line Mothership, have smaller rockers and/or flat camber.

Moving on, I'd go with the Night Train. It would be a much more solid performer for you. I'm a big proponent of stiffer, straighter, flatter skis. You definitely have to work the ski a little more, they don't have auto-pilot, but you will be much happier with a ski that does exactly what you tell it to and doesn't waver from the initiative. And with your size, I'd recommend going with at least the 181 if not the 186. You definitely want to step up in size when you're buying a pow ski. My pow sticks are 195's so don't be afraid of the bigger skis. You'll be stoked when you're skiing 50 mph through chop that you have that extra 5 cm of ski beneath you.
Mar 16 2010 10:44AM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
Sure you might have less running surface on flat ground or groomers, but skis with big rocker ski just as fast. Width creates surface area. A lot of opinions in these responses based upon the way you like to ski. It is beneficial in reviews to give a background of you stats, what type of skier you are, where you ski, etc. Gives people a better understanding of what works for you and how it relates to them.

iFail was saying the HellBents are not a good option becuase the ski has been the same for 3 years. That is because the athletes wanted nothing changed on it. At all. I don't know about you, but watching Pep, Pettit,Andy, Agar, Siriani, Parker and Decker ski those things, it looks like they were working pretty damned well.

Bottom line, we as skiers have so many incredible options for ski these days, you just have to try different ones out. Borrow your friends, check out demos in your area. You'll be that much happier when you find a rockered ski that fits your skiing style. Happy hunting.
Mar 16 2010 12:49PM
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remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
after reading this and seeing all the capabilities of the night trains i am interested in these also..... anyone know of any edits showing these in the park perchance?
Mar 16 2010 3:18PM
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