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Awd+all season tires vs. fwd+snows

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miker92
Posts: 621 - Karma: 36
driving on a mix of highway and winding roads, in a foot of pure snow, some parts partially plowed, would you be safer in an all wheel drive car with basic all season tires or a front wheel drive car with aggressive snow tires?

my friend has a hyundai santa fe with all seasons, i have a saab 9-3 with snows. my car is manual, his is auto. we disagree on whose car to take skiing in a storm.
Nov 3 2009 8:55PM
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Slinger1x1
Posts: 8853 - Karma: 66
all wheel drive will drive better
you can have grippy, deep tread tires, but they will EASILY slip out in snow

my audi, along with being all wheel drive, has an electronic slip protection or something, that will brake a tire to gain traction in another. im not sure exactly what it does, but i cant really loose control, and i've tried
Nov 3 2009 8:58PM
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Narlyshredder
Posts: 83 - Karma: 10
i would take the awd car because when i went to coppermountain are car slipped and slided every turn we went on because we had fwd car but i do not know what it would have been like with snow tires
Nov 3 2009 9:00PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
studs FTW
Nov 3 2009 9:00PM
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Fucktown
Posts: 474 - Karma: 22
I would say snow tires win in any normal driving situation in the snow. People who claim they cannot lose traction on their car are full of shit lol. Maybe you can't from braking or throttle, but if you toss that thing sideways at 50, tires will lose traction, regardless of any traction control system you may have. FWD and RWD in the snow really aren't bad if you drive correctly and know the limits of your car, especially if your car is equipped with the correct tires/tire pressures.
Nov 3 2009 9:05PM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
FWD with snows.

Coming from a Subaru owner who has owned both options.
Nov 3 2009 9:22PM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
Yep I agree.  FWD with snows will beat AWD with all-seasons.  My auto WRX has the best AWD system Subaru uses (they use it on their Rally cars, way better than the STi AWD system, if you want an explanation feel free to PM me) and my car will still suck in the winter with my All-Seasons on.  The reason is cause All-Seasons should really be called 3-Seasons, which will be good in Fall and Spring and not just Summer like a lot of tires and will still suck in Winter.
Nov 3 2009 9:41PM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
yep, my old integra with blizzacks would shit all over my wrx wagon with all seasons. i would even drive a rwd car with snows than a awd with all seasons. take your car for sure.
Nov 4 2009 12:07AM
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theblackrod
Posts: 2162 - Karma: 575
FWD with snow's definitely.

I drive a honda accord with snows and it mobs, but i'd take my old toyota tacoma with 4wd and regular summer tires over it anyday, did slip once last winter in the pickup
Nov 4 2009 12:17AM
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WikiWiki
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
fwd with snows definetly- if they are real snow tires though- all seasons dont mean shit if they cant dig through the snow- they float-  floating means your still on snow- where as snow tires excivate the snow allowing for more grip-
Nov 4 2009 12:20AM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
agreed with everyone else here.. my 94 accord with snows in the front > my sister's subaru lgt with all seasons
Nov 4 2009 12:26AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
AWD gives you better overall performance. FWD pulls the car and your not going to spin out as easily.
Get snow/winter tires, All season tires means 3 season, you'll be fucked in winter.

This year, I have a 90 chevy cavilier, FWD. BC law states that your not allowed to drive with just winters on the front. kinda sucks.
Nov 4 2009 12:54AM
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ski_ENDUB
Posts: 2535 - Karma: 86
Toyo Observes are the best, PERIOD.
Nov 4 2009 12:54AM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
Whatever you do, don't take a RWD with racing slicks. That would be a bad idea.
Nov 4 2009 12:58AM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
no. toyo are shit.


Blizzacs or Nokian Hakkapeliitta.

thats what we run on our cars, except for my jeep, i have interco trxus MT's on it, they dominate snow.
Nov 4 2009 1:00AM
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jsaya_SagStraps
Posts: 1840 - Karma: 29
How bout both?? Haha.
Nov 4 2009 1:02AM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
My room mates bro had an accord with snow tires and we tried our hardest to get it to spin out at keystone, and it would not budge, that being said I bought some snow tires for this season



aaaaand yes, I think that FWD with snow tires is the best, but in the end what really matters is who is best at driving in the snow
Nov 4 2009 1:03AM
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plorr
Posts: 3131 - Karma: 528
In my experiences, I would go with FWD and snows. I drive a VR6 jetta and i have nice snow tires for it. I used to also own a subaru legacy that i drove in the winter with all seasons on it. By far, my jetta with snow tires drove better in the snow than my subaru did. That may have more to do with how much heavier the VW is tho.
Nov 4 2009 1:03AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Click for larger image
Fuck studs. I be rocking this as a winter vehicle.
Nov 4 2009 1:04AM
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ski_ENDUB
Posts: 2535 - Karma: 86
ha, I agree that nokians are actually the best. they are also way expensive. I've been running observes on my forester and get insane traction, I've actually been pulled over because the sheriff thought i was going too fast. I never slide. Toyo makes kick ass tires
Nov 4 2009 1:12AM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
4x4 with ELSD and traction control coupled with ESP.


FUCK YEAH. (it's jeep thing)
Nov 4 2009 1:15AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Is that a prototype Thule box ya got there?
Nov 4 2009 1:21AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Why yes sir it is... along with a security system! Keeps those douchebag snowboarder fucktards away.
Nov 4 2009 1:26AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
turn it into a snow gun
Nov 4 2009 1:31AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Nah, I ain't turning it into something. I'll just add it.
Nov 4 2009 1:32AM
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J-Wallz
Posts: 1264 - Karma: 54
never had snow tires b4 but my new Subaru handeled great in the snow we had last week. it was my first time driving an AWD , my old suv was  4x4 and i think the subaru did better
Nov 4 2009 1:48AM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,082
Solution: get baller tires on your friends awd.


my subaru smokes bitches with cooper stormmaster(storm something) tires. i literally drive like 60 on the freeway with snow while other goombas are going 30. vail pass was like ice snow pack, slayed it at like 50-55 while 4wd 4runner behind me was going 30-35 beat him by like 20 mins to copper.
Nov 4 2009 1:53AM
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vincepru
Posts: 5474 - Karma: 17
true, the waggy pretty much owns anything with the nokians on
Nov 4 2009 1:59AM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
Honestly everyone saying the saab is completely wrong. You guys are talking about light weight awd sedans, he is talking about an awd min-suv which is much heavier. And if they are good all season tires they will be great in the snow, I drive a mini van with fwd and all season tires and last season when the tires were new they dominated the snow without a problem no need for snow specific tires if you buy the right all seasons.

There is no replacement for awd for traction, especially when it comes to getting stuck. If you're front wheels in the saab get stuck you are fucked.

Bottom line however, either car will be fine it's just snow the only important thing is that you drive safely and within your limits. Fuck around with your car in a safe place to get a feel for how it acts.
Nov 4 2009 2:41AM
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ZavierV
Posts: 5077 - Karma: 100
I guess I'll be seeing you on the evening news, wrapped around a tree...
Nov 4 2009 2:58AM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
hell yeah dude the blizzacks honestly rape the snow like none other.
Nov 4 2009 8:17AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
COMPLETELY wrong.

More weight INCREASES stopping time and creates a less agile vehicle. The only thing increasing the performance of a vehicle in snow conditions in the tires.

"The braking comparison measured the tires' ability to provide traction during an ABS-assisted panic stop in a straight line. We drove the two Cayennes side-by-side at a speed of 30 mph, gave both drivers a braking signal at the prescribed mark and compared the distances it took them to come to a complete stop. The winter tire-equipped Cayenne stopped in an average distance of about 61 feet, while the all-season tire-equipped Cayenne took 102 feet (an additional 41 feet or about two and one-half car lengths). A 41-foot difference in stopping distance during a panic stop at 30 mph on a snow-packed road is more than enough to determine whether it's a near miss or an accident!

Additionally, while the all-wheel drive Cayenne offered noticeably faster acceleration than the rear-wheel drive sedan, the winter tire-equipped BMW's 59-foot stopping distance and all-season tire-equipped 89-foot stopping distance showed that all-wheel drive didn't really offer a measurable advantage when it came to stopping."
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=109

That was a test conducted with a very heavy AWD Porsche Cayenne with all-seasons. The BMW they speak of is a considerably lighter RWD sedan with snow tires. From a speed of JUST 30mph, it took an additional 43 feet to stop the AWD SUV with all-seasons than the 2WD sedan with snow tires.

A vehicle with snow tires will have 40% increased traction over the same vehicle with all seasons. This will translate to decreased braking distances, higher possible turning speeds and increased acceleration. All three of these are synonymous with increased safety and driving performance.


Again, from someone who drove a FWD Toyota Camry with snows and a Subaru Legacy Outback with All-Seasons, I would choose the FWD with snow tires EVERY time if snows on the AWD are not an option.
Nov 4 2009 8:30AM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
I took the thruway home in 6inche of snow at60 passed erryone in a storm in my 9-3but I'd take my moms liberty any day which is similar to teds whip in size
Nov 4 2009 8:46AM
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Inbred_Redneck
Posts: 2776 - Karma: 28
I dont get how people can make these comparisons with a 4x4. You only use the 4x4 when you get stuck, or in very slow driving. Youre comparing an AWD car to a truck that runs with RWD until it gets stuck. Of course it's going to go faster.
Nov 4 2009 8:49AM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
Yep those are some amazing tires.  I have Blizzaks on my Suby and they are amazing in the winter.  The driving performance in unbelievable.

Anyway, SkierX posted some good articles.  For the actual drivability, if you are careful the AWD car will probably drive as well as the FWD with snow tires.  However, that is just driving.  Stopping is a completely different entity.  Stopping aka using your brakes, is completely independent of what type of drive your car has (FWD, RWD, AWD) unless you are using engine braking, but still uses much of the same principles as brakes and you won't be using engine braking in an emergency stop situation.

Your brakes really actually do nothing to stop your car, it is all in your tires.  Your brakes convert the kinetic energy of your axle assembly in to thermal energy which is then dissipated. Your tires are what convert the lower amounts of kinetic energy in to stopping power.  If you have shit tires, even though your kinetic energy drops drastically, you can still maintain speed if your tires suck and you will slide.  With all-seasons, the rubber is much harder at the low winter temps, since they are really just 3-season tires, and so they will be too hard with the wrong tread pattern to grip the snow well.  Winter tires will grip the snow very well, and will thus give you excellent stopping power since it is entirely dependent on your braking system, which for both cars will be working on all 4 wheels pretty much equally.

tldr: For the driving part, the cars will probably be similar.  However, with the stopping the FWD with snows will be much better.
Nov 4 2009 9:16AM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
Hakkas are the best tires I've ever owned bar none. Made by some guys who really know their snow.
Nov 4 2009 9:58AM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
My all seasons say M+S on them. I know snow tires would be better, but when I got new tires I said I want the best all season I can get that will maintain good traction.

That and with 8 years of driving experience in the snow and AWD I have yet to have an issue.

But... if I asked one of my San Diego friends to try my car in the winter, it would probably be crashed in a few minutes. You can have the best driver in an ok car and an ok driver in the best car and the better driver will still probably handle their ok car better.
Nov 4 2009 10:28AM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
Right..the number one change to any car should be the Driver mod...aka the driver is more important than anything else on the car.

That being said, M+S tires still are not great for very cold or heavy snow winters.  They are ok for mild winters with like snow.  Yes you can do well driving them if you know what you are doing, but a dedicated snow tire will still perform better.
Nov 4 2009 10:31AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
ive driven multiple subies and awd/4wd vehicles w/ all season tires and they are still kinda sketch. i have snow tires on my vw fwd wagon and it tears it up in the snow. 2years driving passes almost everday in CO and never got stuck, or slipped out.

but driving a wrx w/ studded tires is the most fucking awesome thing ever.
Nov 4 2009 10:51AM
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fragglemuffin
Posts: 3312 - Karma: 444
i prefer my AWD jeep with offroad tires...it's a tank
Nov 4 2009 10:56AM
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ZavierV
Posts: 5077 - Karma: 100
mudders? swampers?
Nov 4 2009 8:42PM
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Scolson
Posts: 2904 - Karma: 92

the FWD and snows will do better.  It's going to brake and handle way better (awd doesn't affect these),  and will probably accelerate at least as well, if not better than the awd. 

Nov 4 2009 8:53PM
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