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PROTECT OUR CULTURE!

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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
Please make your buying decisions this winter carefully!

"Core" is a statement of sincerity. Those shops and brands who are fully invested in our culture are core brands. These are the brands the live and die with the culture.

In this time of intense greed and big brother domination end economic uncertainty . It is more important than every that we all protect the core brands who truly give a fuck about our culture. When you all walk into your local ski shop to buy this winter, remember to give that some thought. The core companies are what fuel and make our culture what is is. Without these heart and sole brands, we risk the fall of our special lifestyle. What make Ski, Snowboard, Surf, and Skate what we are today, is the core shops and companies who build and sell for the love and passion of what we do. Without these brands, we will become nothing more than a collection of sports. Fuck that.

I am not going to name any names, but when you all are making you buying decisions this year remember the brands and local shops who need your support the most, are the brand our culture needs as well.

God bless our Progressive Culture.

Brad Geiger
Jibyard owner founder
Oct 20 2009 1:25PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 36,027
my local shop doesnt even have twintips.
But I give them 70$ everytime I want a mount because I dont buy skis or bindings from them because they dont have what I want.  If I would buy bindings from them it would almost be cheaper for me but they dont have shit for selection so I dont.
Oct 24 2009 9:51PM
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ski-swagga
Posts: 5276 - Karma: 219
bump because my shop went out of business and it really sucks :( now i have to go 80 miles to get my ski mounted, buy my skis, get outerwear etc.
Oct 24 2009 10:14PM
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TimmyK
Posts: 779 - Karma: 15
Its very hard times many shops have closed down in this past year.  My shop in particular at this point we need an amazing winter or we won't be around next year.  This for many of the smaller shops is true.   More and more i deal with customers that come to pick my brain on a ski or boot and then ask for detailed information bout model and size and are never seen from again.  Some are so brash to state halfway through a boot fit they intend to purchase online.  This happened at a friends shop,  a couple came in to look at boots, the owner does a full fit and then when closing the deal the customer states oh i intend to purchase online.  When the owner states well I'm gonna have to charge you a $25 boot fit fee, which i believe is well worth the service, the customer refuses to pay.   Also online bulk retailers offering skis of the current model year in jan. for 50% off, we can't afford to match it when our margin is around 35.  These practices are making it harder and harder for good shops to continue doing business.  So please support your local shop, they might not be there next year.
Oct 24 2009 10:27PM
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prophet
Posts: 4734 - Karma: 1,007
not to be a whore or anything but... buy ON3P skis.

if you go to Portland, theyll probably get you drunk or just kick it with you all night while they press skis 25 hrs a day, and if I'm there... I'll get ya drunk. I've recently learned its my role in life. know you're ski builder, doesn't get closer than that.
Oct 25 2009 6:44AM
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prophet
Posts: 4734 - Karma: 1,007
oh yeah, GRO in Everett, WA
Oct 25 2009 6:45AM
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304NordMan
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 525

i really wish i could afford new skis

Oct 25 2009 10:31AM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
There is a big difference between "making it" and being strong and growing.

My point is, with a demographic as large as ours is our progressive shops should be doing much better than they are.

Imagine if all the energy that exists on this website channeled its buying efforts into progressive shops. They would be strong, and more and more would be opening all over the place. They would have the resources available to sponsor young talent and hold rail jams and other events.

Progressive shop owners would have the power and the control to hold the bad companies accountable.

If we work together as a culture and support one another with the same passion and verve that exists on this website. We will be a market unto ourselves, and we will own it. Not big corporations who dont give a shit.

Example:

If you dont believe it is possible, look at the surfing industry. They protect their local surf shops with loyalty and pride. The surfing industry is a market if its own, and they dont easily let just any brand into it.
Surfers buy only from their local shops. The surf demographic as just a fraction of the size of ours, and they have 20 times the amount of local shops to buy from. All of them strong.

We easily have the ability to do the same. We all just need to work together. By doing so, we will have a large collection of healthy progressive shops to buy from and we as newschoolers, will control the market and the future direction of our culture.
Oct 25 2009 6:11PM
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InfernoHits
Posts: 4755 - Karma: 192
so are you saying I should stop buying my Roxy skis and Lamar snowboards from dick's sporting goods?!
Oct 25 2009 8:21PM
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JamesG.
Posts: 373 - Karma: 106
Dont worry man, skiing is safe. Its not "cool" enough to get corrupted by the big bad commersal tastelessness. Skateboarding on the other hand has been completely fucked for years.
Oct 25 2009 8:32PM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
The fact that Jibij is gone with how big our demographic is shows a serious problem. Jibij and shops like it should be popping up all over the place not going out of business. Its a fixable problem that needs to be
resolved. Progressive shops, and the excitement that they generate, is vital to the health and strength of our culture.
Oct 25 2009 9:17PM
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baseballski03
Posts: 429 - Karma: 13
i didn't read the whole thread but if you live in or around boise, idaho support greenwoods ski haus. they are the best shop around. good product, good people, great service and they are one of those few shops that are actually transitioning from a traditional ski shop to a legit freeskier shop. i buy there to support the local economy and the local freeski scene and i buy brands like armada that they sell that are core brands. good shop + great product = everybody is happy. they are the only local shop that impresses year in and year out. if you aren't in boise or a surrounding area, find a shop like this where you live!
Oct 26 2009 12:07AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
quit talking about jibij like you know a damn thing about it
Oct 26 2009 12:37PM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
Jibij is gone........Fact
It sucks.............Fact

You obviously were a loyal Jibij customer. Im sorry for your loss man. Your sensitivity is a perfect example of how important these local shops are to us, and we need to protect them.


Oct 26 2009 1:41PM
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ScottHibbert
Posts: 49 - Karma: 18
StartFragment

StartFragment

Brad, I understand the point you are trying to make, but I think you are missing some key details.

First of all, I think the more companies the better since that puts more money in to skiing. I do not support companies that do not give back to freeskiing. Just advertising in Freeskier or on NS is not enough to earn my money. I think it is great that we have all of the small independent companies being started by people in the industry who want to make product their way, but big companies have their role as well. Freeskiing would not be where it is today without the help of big companies as they are the ones with big budgets to sponsor events, increase prize money, and sponsor skiers with enough money to make it a full time job and do what the love for a living. All of which give the sport more exposure and bring in more sales for the companies and shops in the industry.

A lot of companies being mentioned in this thread are great companies, but I think one that needs to be named is Salomon and everyone owes them a big thank you as they started this sport with the 1080 and sponsoring the pioneers(JF Cusson, JP Auclair, Mike Douglas, Vinnie Dorion,etc). I would consider Salomon to be a core company as well as a big company as you can't get more core than starting this sport.

As for big companies coming in to the sport, I look at all of the benefits they bring and a lot of it comes down to more money to support the sport from a variety of angles.

1) More money so more skiers can get paid to do what the love

2) More skiers can get sponsored as all companies have a finite about of marketing dollars to spend on sponsorships of athletes. Nike picked up TJ from Orage and then Orage was able to sponsor at least 3 athletes with the budget that opened up after losing TJ.

3) More money to spend on research and development to create better products every year.

4) Ads on websites like newschoolers and in magazines like Freeskier to help them grow and deliver more content to the readers. I worked directly with Doug Bishop at NS to get Under Armour involved since I believe NS is the best online community of freeskiers and wanted to have UA give NS advertising dollars and get some of the up and comers a chance to make some money and get exposure through the UA video slopestyle contest when we were losing contest left, right and center.

I worked in a local shop when I was younger and it was awesome. I think there is a difference between buying core brand and shopping at core shops. Shopping at core shops help the local economy and keep the fun vibe that those shops have. The big brands want to sell their products in these shops, so I don’t see how big brands hurt local shops.

In the end people should buy brands they like for whatever reason they want, whether it is product design, technology, team riders, etc. I choose brands that reinvest their profits back in to freeskiing and big brands like Under Armour are doing that.

EndFragment

EndFragment
Oct 26 2009 2:10PM
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Rogge
Posts: 5773 - Karma: 3,930
truth.

Yeah Hibbert.
Oct 26 2009 2:36PM
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bananas
Posts: 1419 - Karma: 158
do we have to buy coreupt skis?
Oct 26 2009 7:21PM
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Steakhead
Posts: 490 - Karma: 233
This guy must have his own ski show
Oct 26 2009 8:02PM
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WesleySnipes
Posts: 288 - Karma: 227
^hibbert speaks the truth

, also I'd like to say skiing doesn't have a huge demographic, NS is a great website I'm not saying otherwise but how many members do they have 150k maybe 200k?how many of those are actually active? how many aren't doubles? facebook has how many MILLION? the ski and snowboard industry as a whole doesn't make what the porn industry probably does in 2 months. there just isn't enough rich middle class generally white people. who like getting cold for skiing to be considered a significant demographic.

point of fact there aren't enough customers to support every shop out there, as every bro thinks he can make a better shop than what he has. in my hometown of ogden there are 6 maybe 7 shops all within a small area, all of them except maybe one are struggling. as mentioned before the ones with the best value as a shop i.e. quality shops to do the work, ones that put back constructively into the local scene are doing the best, but I doubt they'll make it through a bare winter. skiing just isn't surfing, and I don't think it ever could be, its much too expensive of a sport, as much as we all want to think we are the heart of the sport, we aren't joe blow shopping at your local sports store is. we might be the brain, we might think ourselves the soul but the heart that pumps money into our sports veins are all doctors, lawyers and other upper middle class people who don't need sponsors to go heli skiing.
Oct 27 2009 9:42PM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
Well I thinks the problem is clear...............

Today, ANY BRAND can buy its way into the ski and snowboard industry. Unfortunately, we sellout very cheap these days.

Some people cheaper than others.

Its sad.

"Click Clack!"


Oct 28 2009 6:34PM
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Steakhead
Posts: 490 - Karma: 233
http://www.descente.co.jp/en/company/development.html

You talk about "Core"

How Core are you? Your company looks as though it wanted to be the UA of 50 years ago...Golf, baseball, skating, etc...

How is your argument valid at all?

Oct 29 2009 10:57AM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
Good call about Descente Missile,

And like I said before, "I wont sellout."

I used to work for them. They were one of the only companies who would only sell there product through local ski shops. The new owners have decided to change that position and sell Dicks and Sports Authority, Backcountry.com. They made the announcement at our sales meeting, so I stood up and walked out. I will not work for a company who hurts local ski shops.

I have nothing to do with Descente! They SOLDOUT!

Now I just focus on the Jibyard. Its mine, and I wont sellout. Ask anyone who knows me or rides at the Jibyard. They know how serious I am.




Oct 29 2009 12:13PM
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Steakhead
Posts: 490 - Karma: 233
Fair Enough, I am still a little confused...

You talk about selling out and how big corporations aren't "CORE." However in your affiliates you list Skullcandy. Number 2 manufacturer of headphones in the world, rad company, I support the hell out of what they are doing. They are sold in Target, Radio Shack, The Sports Authority, Dicks, and Backcountry.com yet you support them? What is the difference between them and Under Armour or Nike 6.0?

SOLDOUT?
Oct 29 2009 7:09PM
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TylerGigg
Posts: 652 - Karma: 268

I just want to give Brad total props here!

Brad is right on alot of points and so is Hibbert so thank you for the props on that. I think that what Brad is saying states a good point.

Yes there are alot of companies hurting out there right now but we all have to pull ourselves together and work for the common interest to keep freeskiing and our core identity  alive and strong! A perfect example is what Brad and Mike are doing at the Jibyard right now.

These guys might never be million airs from what they have created but the passion and direction these guys are pushing the sport in is a core and authentic direction Kids have to realize that companies big and small want to keep our sport rolling because of what one day will lie ahead when freeskiing becomes more mainstream.  Yes we must all work together for one common interest to keep skiing alive!!

 Stand together this winter!

Cheers,

Tyler Gigg

International Freeski Team Manager

Salomon

Oct 29 2009 7:16PM
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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
I'm not into this love for salomon right here. Sure they were one of the first to make twin tips and we should be thankful to them for this. However, they are owned by money hungry men in suits that probably don't even ski. If freeskiing became less popular and salomon wasn't making enough money from their freeski range, I am in no doubt they drop it straight away to focus on whatever was more profitable, they did it to rollerblading, they'd do it to us.
Oct 29 2009 7:35PM
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TylerGigg
Posts: 652 - Karma: 268
Next time you are in Ogden Utah I think you should come and meet our staff. I will personally show you around the office and introduce you to the long line of authentic and core workers we are fortunate enough to have. Salomon people are some of the most skiing hungry people out there and I see your point but I just want to make sure you know that we are passionate about freeskiing and the direction for the sport in general.

Freeskiing will never die but it will evolve no doubt and that is what we look forward to!

Who knows what direction the sport will move to next but you can be sure to know that we have super passionate people at Salomon that do care about the direction our sport and will do anything to support it even if times are tough. We believe in our past present and our future.

Thank you,

Oct 29 2009 7:53PM
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TylerGigg
Posts: 652 - Karma: 268
Please to keep this forum on topic we need to talk about how we can all work together rather that hating on specific brands or companies. Yes Salomon is a bigger brand but we must all work together!!

Lets rather talk about the following questions that need to be anwsered or at least considered. If we all start thinking the same way we will be a stronger culture, more united and will last the test of time.


#1 How do we keep the skiing community strong and united?

#2 How can we also help the small guy which is important for growth?

#3 How can we make make our sport become more mainstream?

#4 How can we make our sport easy for family's get out and ski, grow and evolve ?

#5 How do we evolve as a sport and what is next?

Oct 29 2009 8:08PM
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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
I have no doubt the staff of the skiing part of salomon are very passionate about skiing however the people that make the business decisions, I'm not so sure, in fact i'm almost certain all they are interested in is money and how to get the largest amount of it. I expect all the staff that were a part of the rollerblading section were passionate about that too till the job they did didn't make enough money for the business any more and they got dropped.
Oct 29 2009 8:11PM
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TylerGigg
Posts: 652 - Karma: 268
Keep in mind this thread is not about Salomon and this happens with most every business venture, its supply and demand my friend.

Salomon will always have freeskiing and you don't have to worry about that trust me on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oct 29 2009 8:26PM
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TylerGigg
Posts: 652 - Karma: 268
It would be like taking the chocolate out of and Oreo cookie it just would not happen ever!
Oct 29 2009 8:32PM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
Whats the difference between Skull Candy, Nike, and Underarmour?

Thats like asking what the difference is between an underage drinker and a serial rapist, because they both break the law. 

They are all the same I guess.....Wow! Good point. 




Oct 29 2009 9:23PM
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Steakhead
Posts: 490 - Karma: 233
Or all 3 are responsible for dumping a ton of money into this industry we both know and love....weird

Oct 29 2009 9:44PM
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Steakhead
Posts: 490 - Karma: 233
No wayz man, Bonfire is Salomon, salomon rules.
Oct 29 2009 10:26PM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67

I just dont rate brands by how much money they spend.

I have much more respect for the guy who donates his time and energy to a cause, than the guy who is worth 50 million that donates $500 then walks away.

If Underarmour and Nike are still in the ski and snowboard culture 10 years from now, I will change my position about them.  

They need to show us that they are "dedicated" to the culture, not just "feeding" off of it.

They need to "earn" our respect........Not just "buy" it.


Oct 29 2009 11:48PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Spot on, plus I'm just a skeptic at this point.
Sad to hear that about DNA, had a sick ass pair of pants from them 2 years ago.  Still look almost new.
Some companies just seem out of touch with the community.
Oct 30 2009 1:01AM
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ScottHibbert
Posts: 49 - Karma: 18
StartFragment

Brad,

I can tell you are stuck in your new found core way so no matter what facts I bring you, you will still disagree.

To quote you “And like I said before, "I wont sellout." Except according to your mentality you sold out the day you started working at Descente since they started as a basketball clothing company before it started making ski clothes, making them not a core company. I guess after you quit working there you became core?

You complain about big brands selling products to the freeski community as not being core. The jibyard sells a service. Do you have a test for all customers to make sure they are core or do you let anyone use your facility? If you take a penny from a college kid or weekend warrior who wears under armour and shops online or at dicks then how are you any different from a big brand trying to be apart of the ski industry?

If we all had your mentality, Oakley should not be in skiing since they started in Moto,

To quote you again “Thank you. Well put. I know that we have to do what we can to make it through this tough time, but just try it "invest in the shops and brands who are invested in us."”

How much money has the jibyard invested in skiing? How many events has it sponsored? How many athletes does it pay? How many videos do you sponsor? How much is your advertising package with Newschoolers? Pretty sure Under Armour invests more than the jibyard does in all of these areas. You might call that dumping money into the industry, but I would call it well-allocated finances into the growth and support of athletes, events, and the industry as a whole.

I believe that with the right people at the big companies who understand skiing, we will not lose any of the culture, direction or identity.

Tyler makes a great point about instead of hating on specific brands or shops, why not work together to make everyone as whole stronger and bigger. I had to respond to your hating on big brands because it was one sided and lacking the facts.

EndFragment
Oct 30 2009 1:04AM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
It's not just about the money companies put into the sport.
Oct 30 2009 3:46AM
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BradGeiger
Posts: 288 - Karma: 67
Scott,

I respect and fully understand your defense of underarmour. Companies like them and Nike pay their athletes very well, and invest a lot of money into advertising and marketing projects.

From this angle, I totally agree with you.

However, the overall damage created by Nike and Underarmours involvement in our culture is permanent and substantial.

Damage #1 The loss of small local specialty retail shops

Nike and Underarmours push into our industry is through partnerships with the big chain sporting good stores like Sports Authority and Dicks. These store chains work very similar to Wallmart. They buy product at very large volume and get massive discounts as a result. This makes it impossible for small local shops to compete and is causing more and more of them to go out of business each year.

Damage #2 The loss of many ski and snowboard brands

Nike and Underarmour also compete and take away much needed revenue for smaller ski and snowboard brands who survive purely on the ski and snowboard market. These brands don't have the power and strength to compete, and many of them will be lost.

Now if Nike and Underarmour truly invest in our culture and stay with it through thick and thin for many years to come. This loss can be justified. However, history has shown time and time again that these large companies pull out of our market after just a short amount of time. The ski and snowboard market just does not generate the kind of money they view as worth the time and energy.

If Nike and Underarmour end up sticking it out and truly invest in our market for a long time, I will change my opinion about them.

But if they are here to just feed on us and leave, the overall damage they leave behind is not worth it.


We need to protect our culture.





















Oct 30 2009 3:48AM
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liberty_snow
Posts: 63 - Karma: 102
 I totally support the idea...
 Those of you, who rollerblade see whats happaning with the industry last years... its like the sport is dying...  I remember how salomon stoped making aggressive inline skates... they have products that sell better so they prefer to invest in that... K2 did the same... now there are only true aggressive inline brands out there who try to support the scene....
 
Oct 30 2009 4:29AM
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SkiTheEast6o3
Posts: 174 - Karma: 205
great thread, very intresting....i can remember going to my local shop (Fire on the Mountain Dover, NH) when i was much much younger like 10 years old and even younger im 21 now and i dont know what i would do if they went out if business witch is why i support it whenever possible, although i dont buy my skis there all the other skiiing accessories will be bought from my local shop, i believe that it is very important to our sport that these local shops stay open all over the world, one thing though i dont like to see some brands "sell out" but i would like to see our sport become more mainstream i think these two issues conflict with each other slightly... 
Oct 30 2009 8:56AM
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K.C.Deane
Posts: 1730 - Karma: 315
A quick solution is dont buy anything snowboarding.  Why would you support Special Blend? or Bonfire?
or Anon for that matter when you can buy a product that supports skiing. like TREW outerwear, Armada outerwear, or buy some SaGa or maybe Orage.  These are the types of companies that put back into skiing,  Why give your money to the snowboard industry?
Oct 30 2009 11:31AM
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ChadThundercock
Posts: 3071 - Karma: 830

That makes a really good point right there. would you rather buy chinese-made snowboarding clothes to save a buck? or help the ski industry get the extra boost it needs by spending the extra dollar and buy from companys that make their outerwear in North america and Europe. Its unique, and it puts money into the sport we all love.

Oct 30 2009 11:37AM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Where a good is made doesn't have a lot to do with how much a company puts into freeskiing.  If anything they'd have a bigger budget due to cheaper inputs because they produce in China.  Now there are some companies that don't produce in China that are of superior quality, but I doubt it's just because they are made in the US.  2 Exceptions I can think of off the top of my head are ON3P and Moment, both also prime examples of a core company as well.
Buying goods from China has other repercussions but not relavant to this thread.
Oct 30 2009 11:57AM
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