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JJ, or EP pro? Major Karma for help

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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
so here's the issue, and i need several different outside opinions so thank you in advance and +K for your much appreciated input. i simply DO NOT know what ski to get for this season and im sick of not being able to come to a decision.
    as for my stats i am 5'8, 145 lbs, the best way to describe my riding style would be, backcountry jibbing and just mostly pow and tree skiing.(eric pollard is my main influence)  When I hit the park(about 25% of my riding) I can only play around on small rails and boxes, doing nose/tail butter spins, presses and shit like that, i can't hit big icy jumps at all because of my fucked up knees, so i dont really need stiffness for stability on hard landings or anything like that, because i am never hitting anything bigger than 20 feet or so of air at most , and if it is that big, its into a powder landing. and i also like to rip big mountain style lines, pillows and such, but there arent that many around where i live so thats only about 25% of my riding as well.
    I have been riding hellbents for the last 2 seasons. 169s first, and then 179s the this last season. And now that tons of other companys have options for sick rockered skis, i need something that has less swing weight, more pop, and more all mountain preformance than what the hellbent was delivering. and keep in mind i rode the hellbents as my one ski quiver, for park, groomers and everything, so im looking for something that is just as "all mountain/park friendly" I know some people are thinking "the hellbents are anything but that!!" but im talking in terms of preference, and people who like to ride bent skis everywhere on the hill.
Something like the bent-chetler or  the bibby pro from moment would be perfect, i would be getting the bent-chetlers without  a doubt but the only problem is, I work for a shop that gives me a sick deal and I want to represent for them, so I only have a choice between these companys:
Armada (the JJ)
K2 (the hellbent, which is obvously out of the picture)
Rossignol (the S7)
Volkl (the chopstick)
Dynastar (no clue what they have for rockered goodness)
Line (ep pro)
Salomon (nothing really interests me from salomon except for my spk boots which i love)

I would dig the JJ but my concern with those, is that i have never skied anything any stiffer than an old pair of 1080s ( I'm very used to soft skis) so i dont know if they would be too stiff for my likings and for buttering around the park (not to mention i have never seen these skis in the park period. they seem way more "powder/backcountry jib specific")

I could get the hellbents again, but that is the obvious point of the thread, is that i need to try something different, and lighter.

as for the rossignol S7, i view these skis pretty much the same as the JJ, seems like they would be too much big mountain/powder spacific, and not symmetrical enough for my likings. (never seen these skis in the park either, and im not suprised, they dont look like that type of ski.)

as for the chopsticks, i love how they are completly symetrical, but i have heard bad reviews about the flex and weight and being a "non-responsive, non-playful" ski. -sounds like they would be even worse for me than the hellbents.

as for Dynastar, i can get a deal on them, but i have never been a fan and i dont even know what type of rockered,  jib type skis they have. if any.

and as for the EP pro, (i pretty much have narowed it down to this or the JJ, like the tittle says) I am worried  that after noticing how soft the hellbents were and riding them for 2 years, i'm scarred that i will get a pair of EPs and hate them because their even softer than the hellbents! (dont get me wrong, I LOVE buttery skis, im  just afraid i will try a stiffer poppier ski for the first time and freakin love it) so im not sure if buying this ski would be going in the right direction, like what if i get on them and i feel like they are so soft that i dont have as much confidince as shredding the hellbents??
cuz i know they are like pretty much the same ski as the hells but with lighter swingweight, softer flex, and the early taper.


like i said ive never really tried a "stiff ski", i have only had a couple pairs of lines, ( assasins, elizabeths ) two pairs of 1080s (one pair of the OriGinal silver spaceframe robot ones, and then a pair of the 07 foils ) and then the 2 pairs of hellbents that i owned after that.
the only time i tried a really stiff ski was  pair of those "chronic wides" a few years back and they were way too big for me.

NO CLUE WHAT TO GET> different oppinions wil be awesome and refreshing to hear. thanks.
Sep 10 2009 10:09PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
i forgot we also carry FISCHER, but like dynastar, i dont follow them as much and i have no clue if they will have anything for me.


help=10/10
Sep 10 2009 10:11PM
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En_Route
Posts: 740 - Karma: 45
heres my opinion even tho i havent ridden any of those skis. You say you spend 25 percent of your time in the park. that isnt that much really. a buddy of mine rides jjs in the park off jumps not so much off rails but loves em. they really rip all mountain better than any other fat skis I see on a daily basis. It sounds to me like you spend enough time out of the park to merit a ski more focused on all mountain than park. I know the JJ can handle park probably to the extent you wanna do and they will be a million times better on hard pack. I cant confirm that last statement but I cant see how EP pros could possibly be better. If i were you id go JJ. It sounds like th best choice.
Sep 10 2009 10:23PM
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GreenHorn
Posts: 4896 - Karma: 1,209
yeah this sounds right. ive heard great things about the jjs, and almost bought them over my ep pros. but im pretty light and wanted a soft ski like the ep pros for some powder.
Sep 10 2009 10:29PM
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KingOfNothing
Posts: 368 - Karma: 264
Dude its all very simple... Moment Night Trains... thats all you need son.
Sep 10 2009 10:30PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
very good point thank you. 10/10

i knew i would get some opinions that would open myeyes and make me realize thinga in a different way. keep em comming!

cuz i still dont know about the JJ, ive never tried anything that stiff and i love to butter around everywhere, and even though i am only in the park 25% (which i should probably correct: more like %, because i live at bachelor) I want something that is a little more symetrical, and "known" for being able to jib too. know what i mean?
Sep 10 2009 10:30PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
but then id have to pay like 600 for a pair of skis. i need to stick with my pro form deal from my shop.
Sep 10 2009 10:31PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
thats the thing, im pretty light too, probably compared to eric p himself as well. so if i hear enough input telling me that the EPs aren't too soft for charging now and then. thats the route im going. the only other thing that makes me concerned about the sofftness of them, is the rumors ive heard that they are very easy to land too far foreward or backwad and the softness makes them just come out from under you especially on cliff drops. is this true?

i mean shit, if they arent too soft for eric pollard how could they bee too soft for me?




NEED MORE INPUT
Sep 10 2009 10:43PM
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GreenHorn
Posts: 4896 - Karma: 1,209
yeah well you can still charge the EPs. and if you watch Idea, pollard is using EPs pretty much the whole time. He doesnt seem to wash out too much, even if you watch the crashes. It's controlable. I'm sure you can get used too it, but they are still soft.
Sep 10 2009 10:47PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
yeah i guess im gonna have to wait untill i can hold one of each in my hands at the same time and go with my gut instinct.

if i get the ep pros i can always get a skinnier poppier ski later on in the season too. kung fujas or something.
Sep 10 2009 10:52PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
anyone know how the swing weight is on the EPs compared to the hellbents? if it isnt that much noticably lighter, than i might lean back towards  the jj again because of how light it is.
Sep 10 2009 10:55PM
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GreenHorn
Posts: 4896 - Karma: 1,209
yup

ive heard great things about the jjs and the eps. the jjs seem like a ski that shreds great everywhere. if you want a one ski quiver, then probably do the jj

but at your weight and the stuff youre doing, the ep would be fine. more of a preference thing.
Sep 10 2009 10:56PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
id say eps or jjs. and personally id go jjs. theyre symetrical enough for what your looking for i think. def lighter than the hellbent. and probably the most versatile of your choices. HONESTLY, i agree with the guy up there that said night trains. that would be your ideal ski. but yeah id say jjs. light, fairly soft. jibby, but can charge if you need em to. and ok for a lil goofin in the park. eps are dope too, but if you want to charge, id lean towards the jjs. either ski i think youll have fun on though, you cant really go wrong.
Sep 10 2009 11:20PM
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chazz.
Posts: 2721 - Karma: 23
for what you described, get the JJ without question. The EP's will simply be too soft if you want something stiffer than hellbents. Ive skied them in powder a bunch, and much prefer stiffer skis to them. I know about Pollard and how he "uses them for everything" but he doesnt, thats why he made the bacons and the elizabeths, and in ski movies they dont show all the shots of skiers washing out and wiping out trying to get the shot. And hes small, i will acknowledge that, so they obviously feel 100% different for him then they do for someone as big as me. Its a toss up, some people swear by them, others dont. Its that way with most skis out there. As for the JJ, they are by no means stiff. They may feel "stiff" compared to hellbents or ep's, but are noodles when compared to a truly stiff ski like a race ski. They are super light, like its amazing. You will be amazed. They do break in as well, so if you still think they are too stiff when you first ride them, that will slowly change over time. Plus after the storm, you'll be able to rip through the crud and chop and back onto the groomers like a champ. All mountain performance cant be beat, the traditional sidecut/camber paired with rocker and taper is the definition of perfection in a ski. Shall i go on? Really, if you're style of riding you described is accurate, out of your choices id say thats your ski.
Sep 10 2009 11:29PM
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Ski.Ballet
Posts: 2860 - Karma: 200
181 ON3P Caylor
Sep 10 2009 11:32PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
yup, and i was just looking on the armada site, and noticed that they put a thinner, weaker edge on the JJ (probably to reduce weight, understandable for a pow ski) and i think the ep pro has the fatty base and edge feature that need for when i do want to hit boxes and rails.
Sep 10 2009 11:32PM
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tedmgee
Posts: 1502 - Karma: 111

i think the eps are better

but moment also makes good pow skis not too too soft

Sep 10 2009 11:51PM
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tiger_shart
Posts: 510 - Karma: 1,592
out of personal expierence i would go with the ep pro there super surfy and supprisingly are really fun on groomers and rails are great too. i didnt have much trouble with going fast except for the days when it was super icy there real nice and easy turn if you like soft skis then eps are the way to go suprisingly agile swift and stable for such a wet noodle i basically used them as my all mountain ski at the end of the season and they were great, in all actuality i thought that they handled better on big jumps then my park skis did (06-07 dumonts but they were too short so what do i know). they felt a lot more versatile due too the early taper cause it didnt feel like your sidecut was 20 feet off the ground. so yeah just pitching my 2 cents



also once you butter them all doubts about the ski will be totally erased
Sep 11 2009 12:00AM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
yeah i wish i could look outside of my partial sponsership from the shop and get something from moment, surface, ON3P, etc. but i dont have that kind of money.
Sep 11 2009 12:01AM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
finally someone on the ep side, and i think you just sold me. because even though most everyone was saying the jj is a better ski for me, i think i will like the ep pro just fine. im 18 so it wont be long before im an old dude not that into rails anymore(dont know how long my knees will let me ski like this, and at that point something like the JJs will be perfect for me no doubt.
Sep 11 2009 12:06AM
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tiger_shart
Posts: 510 - Karma: 1,592
just glad i could help
Sep 11 2009 12:09AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i really dont think youll be unhappy either way
Sep 11 2009 12:14AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
get the jj's in a 175 if you're worried about them being to much ski. if you're even a decent skier, the 185 would be fine because of the amount of sidecut and rocker. definitely the only ski listed that could truly get you down a park. plus the extra stiffness will kill it in big mountain, just look at the dudes shredding in the massive. and with a rockered pow/all mountain ski, stiffness isn't going to kill you as the rocker combined with taper will make the ski super easy to initiate, especially in pow. the most similar ski i've been on is the s7, and i only got to ride it on hardpack but even as an ex racer it was relatively stable at speed and easy to carve.
Sep 11 2009 12:21AM
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shortdawg
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 19
maybe compared to EPs they're stiff.. but they're still a really soft ski
Sep 11 2009 12:35AM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
im not worried about the 185 being too much ski, they are about the same length as my 179 bent that i was rocking last year and i bet a hell of a lot lighter too. when i was looking at last years jjs the 175 came up to my eyebrows so no thanks. those would probly feel like snowlerblades being a rockered ski. haha

but like i said about the edges earlier, i think i like the fact that the EPs have the fatty base and edge just like their park skis and the jjs have thinner less durable edge than their more burly edges they put in their park skis like the PC, AR6, t-hall, etc.

im hella leaning towards the ep pro at this point. i just wish i could get the bent chetlers because after so much trying to decide between the EPs and jjs i have come to realize that the chetlers are the perfect blend of the two and definitly the ski for me, haha. but, i definitly cant complain about the skis i am being offered and i have to make the best of the choices that i do have.
Sep 11 2009 3:54AM
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BC.
Posts: 1551 - Karma: 86
eps sound perfect for you.
Sep 11 2009 5:02AM
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chazz.
Posts: 2721 - Karma: 23
JJs and Bentchetlers and essentially the same ski, same exact construction, nearly identical "stiffer" flex, tip and tail taper, the bentchetler just has a few different dimensions. Pretty sure they are even made in the same factory. If you really like the bentchetler, then it makes even more sense to get the JJ if you can. The edges and bases will be just fine unless you really plan on hammering them like park skis.
Sep 11 2009 10:10AM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,031
Ok I have ridden both skis, although the EP much more extensively.
The JJ is better on hardpack (obviously) but not as good in pow, honestly I didn't think it was even close. They are still way better than a regular camber ski, but it is not the same "nothing could eve sink me" feeling as on EP pros. They are less buttery and I would say overall less good in the park, and the mount is better further back. You could easily argue for having JJs AND EPs as they have (for me) different uses. I would buy the JJ in a second as an all mountain/pow/touring ski, but not as a Jib ski. The rocker is FAR smaller than the EP or the Bent.
Click for larger image
By comparison the EP is softer, slightly less good on groomed (but still does really well) and better than the Bents in my opinion, but more durable for park, more buttery, more fun (and apparently stiffer for this season but it wont be much). Perfect pow/jib ski and you aren't a big guy so it will hold up ok off drops and stuff. I did 30-40 ft drops on mine and it was fine. Just dont land to far back or forward.. I say get the EP..
Sep 11 2009 11:15AM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
i'd say JJ, they'll be great in the trees, super fun in the pow, great on groomers, and not great in the park....

i rode them a lot last season in all conditions and they killed it in everything except the park, they tend to slap down hard off landings. for bottomless pow and park performance you'd be better with the ep pro but it's all mtn capabilities are the same as the hellbent, just lighter and even a bit softer. jj will be by far the most versatile and it's super fun, it doesnt just perform each task in a mediocre way, it really kills everything. i found ep's and hellbents almost annoying to ski because they were so ridiculously soft. now i do weigh more than you but unless you're in bottomless pow in trees i found both of those skis somewhat limiting

as for other skis, the s7 is a more forward oriented JJ, so if you like a more jibby feel definitely go with the JJ, it'll also be lighter with less swing weight. also look into the ON3P billy goat but that will ski more like the s7 than the jj

i've ridden ep's and owned hellbents and i wasn't too impressed with either, they're kinda fun to jib around on and they're good in endless pow but other than that i found them flappy and unstable
Sep 11 2009 12:02PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
This ski exactly describes what you want. I know you said you want to stick with something you can get a deal on, but the Caylors are $500 on presale. Is it worth saving $100-$150 to compromise? Maybe, that's a decision you have to make. But if you're going to be using it as your main ski, 25-30 (or more) times per season, you're talking like $5-$6 a day extra to have what you want. Something to think about.

If you do have to go with one of the above mentioned companies, I think you'd be happiest with the JJ. If you felt the Hellbent wasn't versitile enough, then the EP would be going in the wrong direction. The S7 would be a good choice too, but not nearly as light as the JJ, and more directional.
Sep 11 2009 1:10PM
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JonnyH
Posts: 239 - Karma: 28
pretty much says it all really! EP seems to suit and will be a great fun ski for you and should be fine charging if your slightly smaller and lighter! Pollard charges these things so can be done!
Sep 11 2009 1:21PM
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epic_line
Posts: 929 - Karma: 32
ARG

Sep 11 2009 1:32PM
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skyabamba
Posts: 1144 - Karma: 10
yeah, if I end up not being able to find the bentchetler somewhere else for a reasonable price, EP it is.
Sep 30 2009 5:28PM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
"i need something that has less swing weight, more pop, and more all mountain preformance than what the hellbent was delivering"

You never mentioned it, but the obSETHed is just that. Better all mountain and poppier then the hellbent. Lighter too. About 10mm narrower but still great flotation. I personally opted for the Seth over the hellbent because I think it is a much better all mountain ski. And at your weight you can charge on it. Super fun in the pillows as well, and I don't feel like i've sacrificed too much flotation.

Haven't tried the other skis so I can't comment there, sorry.
Sep 30 2009 5:48PM
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Wood_Wizard
Posts: 805 - Karma: 899
have you thought about the 2010 Kung Fujas its got rocker tip and tail and has a pretty chill flex
Sep 30 2009 9:10PM
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ike.
Posts: 2292 - Karma: 93
i think the EP pros sound perfect for you. i skied with witt at windells and he rocked the EP pros every day and handled them with ease as he said. plus they dominate at backcountry jibbin. hope that helps.
Sep 30 2009 11:44PM
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