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How will Obama pay for the public option?

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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
before i start i want to say that i am not bitching about healthcare. im a liberal but that doesnt mean im gonna blindly accept everything obama says. Im asking cause i want real answers

I am very supportitive of the concept of a public option, but i cant understand how its gonna be paid for. Obama says that he's not gonna raise taxes for this and that most of the money can just be found like laying around somewhere. I find that hard to belive. can someone explain this to me
Sep 10 2009 5:17PM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13
Much of the funding will come in the form of savings on emergency room visits. At the moment hospitals don't turn away the uninsured, but the taxpayers end up footing the bills which are hugely expensive and often could have been easily avoided had the person had insurance and access to non-emergency health care.
Sep 10 2009 5:21PM
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KFRADtheLaxBro
Posts: 632 - Karma: 10
He is going to stop spemding millions on the war on drugs and make our country rich as ever by legalizing cannabis ; )
Sep 10 2009 5:31PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
yeah, but its not 90 billion dollars a year...
my question is right now we barely have enough physicians for the insured right now. If everyone gets insurance how are we supposed to have enough doctors? what incentive do people have to become doctors if theyre not getting paid well?
Sep 10 2009 5:33PM
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KFRADtheLaxBro
Posts: 632 - Karma: 10
They start doing what is right instead of doing what is profitable. I would save someones life for free anyday. even if i spent my hole life studying for it.
Sep 10 2009 5:39PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
Yep. So much cheaper to visit a clinic a few times to get rid of something easy like a kidney infection than end up nearly having kidney failure at 2am the day before christmas cause of no insurance.

And yeah, eventually the govt does end up covering that.


but yeah, there still would be a lot of money that would need to be found. The only real way would be to have government owned hospitals instead of for profit hospitals. Then instead of costing $700 an hour for a 30 minutes visit to the ER it could cost $100.

Really though, it was cheaper for my ex boyfriend (from australia) to have his (public) insurance fly him back to australia have surgery there and fly him back to the US. And he didn't have to pay any part of it.
Sep 10 2009 5:43PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
what about being in debt up to your neck in student loans?
Sep 10 2009 5:43PM
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Danger.
Posts: 3476 - Karma: 58
Sounds like there most likely won't be a public option, at least one that is government run. Mostly due to how unfavorable it is amongst republicans and the general population. I really think a good solution to the reform fiasco would be to allow health insurance companies to compete across state lines, giving one-company-dominated-states more options, inevitably driving the costs down. That seems obvious once you think about it, but it hasn't been enacted. I say start there, then work towards a more significant change.
Sep 10 2009 5:49PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
A lot of money can be found through both saving on the emergency room visits now (didnt obama say the taxes came out to like a thousand dollars per person?) and streamlining of other areas that we are pouring money on healthcare into today.



however my 2 cents on this healthcare. the public option isnt going to happen. itll pass in the house, but not in the senate. they will go to a co-op, which isnt nearly effective enough. 10-15 years from now, we will be in the same, or deeper trouble, and we will go to a single payer system. im calling it now.
Sep 10 2009 5:52PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
How did Bush pay for tax cuts for the rich (50%+ goes to teh 5% richest in the country)?  He didn't.  $2.5 trillion added to the deficit by 2020, no one blinked an eye.

$1 trillion for health care, a lot of which will end up being paid for (I don't believe he can cover ALL of it, but definitely a good chunk), and we're on the brink of a mini civil war.  This country is so fucked.
Sep 10 2009 5:53PM
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bout_it
Posts: 1233 - Karma: 17
and a surprising amount of these people that are uninsured are illegals.
Sep 10 2009 5:55PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Passing the bill without a public option is basically throwing money out the window. It's a waste. This is why you occasionally hear that the public option is the only path to real health care reform. Compromises just don't solve the underlying financial problem. How will he pay for it? Probably largely the way he says he will; by moving money around. Maybe new taxes. The point is that if nothing happens, you're going to end up with a huge financial burden down there for insurance that will dwarf what other countries pay with their forms of universal coverage. Costs are going up quickly, they're not standing still.
Sep 10 2009 5:56PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
if you say the bill is going to cover illegals, im going to find a way to reach through the computer and punch you in the face.
Sep 10 2009 5:56PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944

All I can say, is there better be a public option soon... I'm losing my healthcare in 6 months, and have no possible means of paying for it...

Sep 10 2009 5:58PM
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AlexGaynor
Posts: 947 - Karma: 148
Scholarships?

And there are ways through this system, anyone who wants it enough can get to college.

And I also think that the results you see that cause this statement, could be a correlation: smart people generally have more money.
Sep 10 2009 5:59PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
lolcats. so its the 18 year old kid trying to get into colleges fault he doesnt have money? your just enforcing what he was saying, it is incredibly difficult for the poor to get a good education.
Sep 10 2009 6:01PM
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Tortao
Posts: 1292 - Karma: 10
page 1 of many
Sep 10 2009 6:03PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
Spent a semester in Hungary at their best engineering school with a lot fo international kids doing the same thing.  they all laughed at me and my American friends when we told them how much we paid, they honestly thought we were kidding.  I think the msot any of them paid (a lot went for free) was like.. 2 grand a semester.
Sep 10 2009 6:08PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944

good Scholarships that pay for most of your schooling are incredibly hard to obtain... almost no matter what your forced to end up hoofing 20k in debt by the end of it all AT LEAST 20k, that is..

the main way that kids could go to school 4+ years ago was that the parents would just be able to take out money on the house, and bingo, you're set.

Out here in california, where our house prices have dropped literally 70% from where they were in 2006, its just not possible (my parents cant do anything to help me with college, because they owe more on the house than its even worth... same with most people)

that, coupled with the overcrowded and severely underfunded state schools here in california (they arent accepting any new students SYSTEMWIDE -thats 23 campuses for the spring. awesome eh?), and the wayyyy too expensive (even with scholarships) private schools, i'm being forced to either wait out who knows how long until a spot opens up in a state school, move and get residency somewhere else, or hope i win the lottery in order to pay/even GET INTO school.

Oh, and I have a 3.4 GPA, and I like to think i'm pretty well educated... Being 'smart' doesnt translate to having more money...

Sep 10 2009 6:16PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
dingosean ^^ what happened that you are no longer in school? i would figure they wouldnt accept new students, not cut existing students.. were you at a school you didnt like? whats up? it seems as though if you were in school and paying your bills keeping your grades up (as you were) that you should be able to continue school. unless you were at a different school, out of state? what? good luck!

anywho i still have not seen a way for Obama to pay for his health care reform..
Sep 10 2009 6:30PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564

according to the constitution if you help one portion of the populace you have to help ALL portions of the populace.  thats from the Constitution...........  it doesnt say it in the bill but it says it in our constitution so if government health care gets passed (with nothing about illegals) it will still have to cover them

AND, if they arent included in he bill why is it that whenever obama, biden, pelosi, or any of the other people open their mouths about the uninsured they INCLUDE the illegals in that number?

Sep 10 2009 7:26PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i might be wrong (probably am) but the number i always here is 40+ million uninsured. im almost positive last night the president said 30m so he might have taken them out of his equation..
Sep 10 2009 7:29PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
i hope he did.
Sep 10 2009 7:36PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
Does this clear it up? (from a Time article http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1921455,00.html)

The President's seemingly simple statement that "the reforms I am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally" is not hard to check. In the Senate Finance Committee's working framework for a health plan, which Obama's speech seemed most to mimic, there is the line, "No illegal immigrants will benefit from the health care tax credits." Similarly, the major health-care-reform bill to pass out of committee in the House, H.R. 3200, contains Section 246, which is called "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS."
Sep 10 2009 7:41PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
first, its Time magazine.  second, im pretty sure the Constitution holds more power than a provision in a (for now) unpassed bill.  the Constitution has something in it, (dont know the exact wording) that states that if something is passed to benefit people of the USA, EVERYONE in the USA is covered by it.  its why some guys can come from Brazil, Mexico, or other places and not be citizens but serve in the military and thus qualify for the GI Bill.
Sep 10 2009 7:43PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
by taxing yo bitch ass!!!
Sep 10 2009 7:44PM
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jayo.
Posts: 5015 - Karma: 34
fuck, why do i even open these threads?
Sep 10 2009 7:47PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Anyone who spends 7-10 years becoming a doctor and paying a lifetimes debt back, while still dealing with the bullshit that is the healthcare system is a better person than most.
Sep 10 2009 7:49PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
While I see your point with the constitution part, the public option is something people will be applying for (if I understand it correctly), so it is not hard to have them rejected if in the bill it says they can't have it because they're here illegally.  Or if they try, deport them... simple fix.

However, 'it's time magazine' is so ignorant.  They're citing facts, facts you and I can look up and verify and other people have, i just cited the article because I read it today and thought they put it nicely.  It's not biased in the least bit, it's fact. 

Up until Fox News brainwahsed everyone, Time magazine was an incredibly respected magazine (and still is to anyone who isn't into the whole 'fair and balanced' bullshit).  Fuck, Fox News is to the American religious right as Iranian State TV is their government, it's just a mouthpiece for them to say whatever the fuck they want and ahve the idiots of the country believe it.  Yes, i called anyone who believes Fox is fair and balanced an idiot.
Sep 10 2009 7:51PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
same thing liberals say when i bring up Mark Levin or any other conservative commentator...  still, every magazine/news place/broadcasting agency has a bias/ax to grind...  i try to get my news from political crossfire, here, and a LITTLE bit from TV here and there.
Sep 10 2009 7:54PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
Ya, because every doctor I know isn't filthy rich or anything.
Sep 10 2009 7:54PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
so does MSNBC come into this equation? maybe in soviet russia they watch MSNBC?

i just felt a tingle run up my leg...
Sep 10 2009 7:55PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
they get filthy rich AFTER paying their college debts though...  so that has to count for something doesnt it?
Sep 10 2009 7:56PM
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Lanceasaurus
Posts: 925 - Karma: 109
Click for larger image
Sep 10 2009 7:57PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
There is a huge difference between a conservative (note how it's mentioned they're biased in their job title), and Time magazine.  Here, I'll draw a picture.

Left....Time.Center.............fox.............conservative commentators.

Hell, last year Obama was person of the year, followed in 2nd place by the right's little princess, Sarah Palin. Yup, Time's a left wing mouthpiece with no credibility, that's for damn sure.
Sep 10 2009 7:59PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
In money hungry US, yes.  Money is the only thing that matters in this country, fuck helping people for the sake of being a good person and feeling great about yourself, if you don't get paid it ain't worth it, right?

However in other countries, like Israel, doctor's don't make that much more than normal people.  I know this because my brother dated an Israeli who's father was very well respected doctor and she was in med school at the time as well.
Sep 10 2009 8:02PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
MSNBC is left leaning.  Olbermann is definitely out there on the left. 

But really, soviet russia.  who are you, McCarthy?  what's going on here is not in the least bit brining this country to anywhere near where communists were taking russia.  Government run health care is something every well to do country in the world has, apart from the US.  Are people in all those countries running around reciting Marx and Mao?  Didn't think so.
Sep 10 2009 8:07PM
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S-S-K
Posts: 218 - Karma: 187

Do you think that every other news station is fair and balanced.? ha

I'm not hating anyone here, I just think it's funny when liberals just can't take fox news, one news station that bothers them so much. If fox news was full of lies, they wouldn't be doing as well as they are right now. Just saying.

Sep 10 2009 8:09PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I watched the speech. Honestly cannot see how people can rile themselves up to hate that guy. He just comes across as so unbelievably reasonable, persuasive and accommodating to other perspectives. And that Joe Wilson guy who yelled out in the middle gives a study in contrast; that could not have been more classless.
Sep 10 2009 8:13PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Um... they frequently lie and distort the truth. Pundits on MSNBC do it too, but you're incredibly naive if you think that lying isn't often the path to better viewership. People have little motivation to fact check for themselves and making up or propogating bullshit (ie death panels) is often great ratings.
Sep 10 2009 8:15PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
im sure they do include them in the numbers, they are politicians, its their job to make their side look good. every person in washington distorts numbers.

however there are clauses in the bill, along with other laws already instated in our country, that prevent that. the bill will not provide insurance for illegal aliens. period.

Page 143 states:"Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." Not to mention current law prohibits it. Your going to need to prove who you are in order to sign up for these, aka give your SSN. aliens do not have an SSN so they cannot receive healthcare.
Sep 10 2009 8:16PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
well you drew a connection between Iranian state TV and fox so i figured i had to atleast get close.. ;)

whoa! i just felt the tingle again!

you still missed the point of the thread though, he isnt debating whther alot of countries have universal health care. he wanted (and i for that matter ) how we are going to pay for our healthcare reform.. i have an idea, but ide like to hear it from you...

Sep 10 2009 8:18PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Christ.

America's healthcare system is broken. Everyone can agree on that. Its hugely innefficient and expensive. In response to the thread, streamlining and reformatting alone will probably provide more than enough money to cover the proposed policy.

But to step back for a minute. Our health is terrible. America is the richest country in the world, a self proclaimed world leader... yet we have some of the highest rates of heart disease and obesity in the world. A healthcare reform would be great, but that's just one part of the solution. What we need to address is wellness. We need a national movement to get people healthy, to stop the behaviors and habits that result in a trip to the hospital. Even the best healthcare system in the world wont be able to support half of the country's population for triple bypasses and stomach stapling.
Sep 10 2009 8:19PM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
No, but none of the mainstream news stations are as far to the left as they are.  Not even close.  Olbermann is the only one I will say might be.

But what Fox is able to do and say... it's fucked up scary to me.  Like I said, they are a mouthpiece for the religious right and have such a following of idiots that it works for them, scarily well.  Karl Rove is a contributor.  Huckabee has his own show.  Dick Cheney gets face time whenever he wants.  When's the last time Obama did anything RIGHT, as reported by Fox news?  Better yet, when's the last time ANY liberal did anything right?

I spend 8 of my life under Bush, who is without a doubt in the top 3 worst presidents ever.  He lied to bring us into war and cost thousands of American troops their lives, tortured people and thought it was OK, and ran our economy into the shitter.  Some uproar, but not much.

Now, not even 8 months into Obama's term, where he's been left with the biggest debt ever thanks to Bush's policies, and everyone on the right is screaming bloody murder and 'I want my country back'.  Thanks in HUGE part to the extremism of Fox News.  You do realize it's only in America that people don't laugh at Fox, right?
Sep 10 2009 8:21PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
everyone up at 5am tomorrow for our group running session? maybe we could just legislate being in tip top athletic shape? whats first? cheeseburgers? cigs? soft drinks?

sorry im listening to Anthem right now and group think has me a little pissed off.. :)
Sep 10 2009 8:22PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Make it a public issue and urge Americans to be better? Spotlight TV and media sources with the information and just let the word spread?
Sep 10 2009 8:24PM
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S-S-K
Posts: 218 - Karma: 187

??

I don't think it's completly broken. lol

15% of Americans don't have healthcare (fact), that includes illegal aliens and people who chose not to have it. 1-2% of Americans don't have healthcare who need it. Is that a completly broken system?

Sep 10 2009 8:25PM
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