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Dear NS. What Happened?

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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
well, i never thought i would say this, but i believe i am officially fed up with newschoolers.com.

i am member number 9623, have been a member since oct 02, have never been banned, dont have any alias', and have been around for the spork, tub girl, and countless other classics.

newschoolers has provided me with 7 YEARS of entertainment, enlightenment, education and even friendships.

however as of late every time i sign in there is another call out to some member who ripped another kid off. seems like everyone i have ever spoke to on this site has been ripped off in one way or another, except for me, until yesterday.

yes fellow ns'ers, i was ripped off for $6us, which i sent via paypal to a member who will remain un-named.

i ask, what the hell is this site coming to? its $6, if you needed $6 that badly i would have sent you another $6 just so you send me the stickers and could keep the other 6. im a nice guy like that

i know, i know, its $6, there is other people on this site who have been ripped off for hundreds of dollars in a single transaction. or who have been sent merchandize not as described.

its the morality of it though. through out my 7 years of membership i credit newschoolers with the ability to even ALLOW me to ski as i am not a rich kid, do not have rich parents, and every dollar i earn goes to bills and education which is not provided for me by anybody but me. with what every little money i have left over, i spend on my favorite hobby. you guessed it, skiing.

if it were not for reasonable members selling reasonable equipment at reasonable prices, i would not own twintips, have oakley goggles, own a ozone colored jacket etc etc, which are not necessary for skiing, but do come in handy, and have helped me to partake in my hobby.

ive even gone as for as buying and selling laptops, cameras, lenses, and other non-skiing related equipment.

normally as societies grow, they thrive. newschoolers however is the exact opposite. the more this site grows, the worse it seems to be getting.

dont get me wrong, content wise this site is fantastic, and stronger then it has ever been.
but member wise its a fucking joke. everyone screws everyone and no one can trust anyone.

obviously this is a generalization and there is still alot of members out there who are not out there to rip off fellow skiers.

however as your reading this, if your reading this, have you been ripped off?

what happened newschoolers?
why cant i trust you anymore?
maybe im just getting older?
or maybe this sites members are not here for the same reason i am.

goodbye six dollars
Aug 11 2009 6:21PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
ive only had one transaction on here, and it all went fine
Aug 11 2009 6:23PM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
totally.

I haven't been here nearly as long as you have but just in the past couple months the alias' and scamming seems to be at an all time high.

I won't even consider dealing with someone without feedback etc...
Aug 11 2009 6:24PM
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bigskia
Posts: 3463 - Karma: 35
The biggest problem is this is no longer a site solely fused around skiing.

Look at the shit that comes through the forums, the fads and popularity contests that are all presented and epitomized by 14 year olds.

No longer is Newschoolers.com the community it was in the early days, I'll reminisce and still pay homage but no its changed.

Oh, sorry about the $6 cause I've been ripped off through the site too!
Aug 11 2009 6:24PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
uh son i hear you, i was scammaged twice, and last time i brought stickers i asked for 3 orange and got 2 black and 1 gray...its super lame...
you think because everyone on this site are skiers, theyd all be legit, but nooo, there are some ball bags out there who think they are hot shit and can do that sorta stuff..

wee needa get the love throwing through ns again!
Aug 11 2009 6:27PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
^ exactly my point.

as i stated im not speaking on behalf of everyone, and clearly stated that this site is still as informative and powerful as ever.

not as much of a society is a perfect way to put it, thanks nomensteven
Aug 11 2009 6:28PM
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Billek
Posts: 5665 - Karma: 98
Haters hate me, so I hate them, that's what my problem is most of the time.

Not to sound like a generic gagnster using 'hater', but it is the best word for the situation.

You have to have that kids info, put it on 4chan.
Aug 11 2009 6:28PM
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Jwenz
Posts: 8893 - Karma: 7,633
damn its really sorry to hear that happened to you. i too agree about how the site's members content is decreasing in decency (if that makes sense). You just need to find places on the site that key more to what you do and enjoying looking at. avoid NSG and weed through SG. media and arts is fun and always entertaining. and BST, i agree with steven and you. its gone to shit, daily threads about callouts. like come on, there is no reason for that bull shit. good luck with yo 6 dollars. /end rant
Aug 11 2009 6:32PM
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Contender
Posts: 3318 - Karma: 233

the thing that makes me mad the post in the B/S/T forums, are the rich kids (not saying everyone who went to camp is spoiled, im sure some of them earned it and are good people at heart) who not only got to go to windells,momentum or any of those camps but also come back with stuff they either bought, won or took from pro skiers, then come and try to sell it for a high price.

I think some 13 year old kid tried to sell a shirt or something that he got off steve stepp and was bragging about it like crazy, that really grinds my gears to be honest.

Personally if a pro i looked up to gave me something, id keep it and be happy with it

Aug 11 2009 6:33PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
i shouldnt have to.

what SHOULD happen is i pay for the merchandise hes selling, he sends it to me, thats how a transaction works.
Aug 11 2009 6:33PM
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Snowgoner
Posts: 5047 - Karma: 964
I've had 8 successfull transactions on here, and haven't been scammed. I haven't been on the site long enough to know how it was earlier, but I can tell you now, that there are way too many scammers here, and it's rediculous. I still think that we have a great little community on here with the exception of the assholes who are so desperate that they have to steal $6 of a trusting skier. These are the kind of people that are just damaging society as a whole. Sorry about being scammed, that's just fucking rediculous.
You should probably release the name of the little fucker who did that, and we can work something out. For the most part most of the attempted scams I've seen on here have been sorted out one way or another.
Aug 11 2009 6:36PM
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Billek
Posts: 5665 - Karma: 98
It sucks that someone gypped you, I have had a few successful transactions on NS, albeit they were a couple of years ago.

This kid is obviously a punk so you should cause him pain.


Aug 11 2009 6:47PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14486 - Karma: 10,632
I have only done 2 transactions, 1st was with Andy Parry so I knew there would be no issues, but the second one was with shreddy_times for stickers.  I got them and he hooked me up.  There are people on here that are legit as hell, but this scamming crap has to stop.  It's bullshit.  I always read people's feedback and always write something about my transaction in their feedback.  Unfortunately I have not had anything written in my feedback because I have basically no experience with transactions so I see how it could be hard for people top even trust me with transactions. 
Aug 11 2009 8:06PM
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Crack.
Posts: 6020 - Karma: 84
This might sound extremely stupid but, oh well. I don't think I could find myself doing a transaction over Newschoolers unless the member had contributor status. Now, before people flip out, realize that if you are a contributor: 1, it means for the most part you are legit and care about this site enough to donate to it; 2, you have donated to NS so obviously you have extra money and I don't believe you need to rip people off.

I think, in my opinion, it is easy to pick out the people on this site who are legit, and the people who you can't really tell at all. I would find it very hard to buy from a person who has no more than 100 posts and low karma. And I know karma doesn't mean everything and that some people such as yourself, seward, have lower karma than they really should, but it does help. It wasn't created for no reason and it does help, somewhat.

So anyways, there is my two cents in this and I am curious to see if a red name replies in this. Hopefully this downward spiral of B/S/T that NS has found itself in, can slowly work its way back out.
Aug 11 2009 8:37PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
i totally agree with you about the contributor status, the sad thing is that is probably about 5% of the members on this site. i have never contributed, but thats cause im broke, not cause i dont care.
only dealing with contributors cuts out a very very very large portion of people who are selling.
but i would defiently agree that people who contribute to something they love are less likely to rip off people who share the same love.

im going to have to disagree with the posts and karma thing though.
and i will use myself as a example.
i am on this site every day.
i have been a member for coming up on 8 years.
i have 2500 posts.
i have 2140 karma points. (which on a side note seem to go down every time i voice my opinion on this site).

i have never ripped anyone, scammed anyone and would consider myself a "legit" member, however my NS "statistics" dont prove it.

for the most part karma and posts will give you a good idea of who you can deal with, but it wont give you a certainty. its a gamble every-time you deal with someone on this site, and its bullshit.


Aug 11 2009 9:02PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
I've bought and sold A LOT of stuff on here in the many years I've been a member, and I have had good experiences every time. People are for sure still hooking each other up. I just saw Surface selling off good condition demo skis for under 200 bucks! Not to mention I just got some FKS 120's for $110 shipped.

Unfortunately, some people are dishonest, but that's kind of unavoidable...B/S/T isn't regulated by NS or the mods, it's just a venue for the people on here to do what they will, and unfortunately that isn't always good.




PS - Seward, you sold me the first pair of skis I ever bought, some 160cm Mad Trix, back in like 2003.
Aug 11 2009 9:05PM
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Crack.
Posts: 6020 - Karma: 84
yes very true. It's hard to tell who (or what) you're going to get when lookingfor/goingthrough a transaction. It is really shitty that now we have more scams going through NS and I think it's part of growth. I'm not even sure what we can do about it either.

Haha like you said, to sum it up, it's bullshit.
Aug 11 2009 9:08PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
im not bashing this site by any means.
i have had tons of successfully transactions and as i mentioned this is the first time i have been ripped off.
and it was for $6, im over it.

when i said newschoolers i didnt really mean newschooler.com as a site, but newschoolers as members.

there is absolutely more legit members on this site then non legit.
but from my perspective the scammers seem to be committing incest with themselves and rapidly reproducing.

i am incredibly thankfull for this site and everyone that puts hard work in day and night to make it what it is.
which is why im so PO'ed at people ruining such a good thing.

and yes freeze i remember selling you those skis.
i believe it was a good price, they were exactly how i described, you were happy, and the transaction was a success.

take notes people
Aug 11 2009 9:26PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
yeah I agree with you, it seems like a lot of new kids don't understand that it's a community site, and they are just trying to make money off it any way they can. it is a shame.
Aug 11 2009 9:36PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
nomensteven if i could give you higher then 10/10 karma i would.

i dont think i have ever read one of your post where i disagreed with you.
Aug 11 2009 9:48PM
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Snowgoner
Posts: 5047 - Karma: 964
I agree. It's rediculous how kid's are selling Jiberish sweatshirts for $120, I mean I just wouldn't feel right, knowing that I completely ripped a kid off. I mean I sold my great condition MFG Red in May for $55, I felt that was what it was worth, and I wasn't going to sell it for way more. Even though I could have. There are still some very legit sellers on here that give great deals, but it still seems people either rip eachother off, or lowball.
Aug 11 2009 9:49PM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
IMO it's bad. I used to frequent the BST forum multiple times a day and now don't even bother looking.
Aug 11 2009 10:12PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
pretty sure the kendama thread is a joke...and while what you say is true sometimes, its not fair to generalize, because lots of sales are going down the "old way".
Aug 11 2009 10:23PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
Yeah I know what you mean. I personally love the feeling of hooking up a fellow skier with a good deal and I really appreciate when another member does the same for me. It really reinforces the community feel. Like we're all skiers, we come from all over the world but our love for the snow brings us on to this site. I like when I'm reminded of this. The scams and fatty prices for profit shows an uglier side of NS that I don't like. As this site grows more and more I think B/S/T will face a bunch more problems... You won't recognize all the members on there so trust issues will increase. I think that's what's gone on lately. I can only imagine how tight this community was back in the early days.
Aug 11 2009 11:59PM
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@skiinmitch
Posts: 2781 - Karma: 78
yeah . ki bought a Pair of pants off chug cause they were dope. i would not turn around hand sell them to anyone.
Aug 12 2009 12:10AM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
NS is so stupid sometimes. Especially with buying and selling. The gear normally isn't that much cheaper unless you get lucky. You get stories like this where kids are too impatient. Hell I have the attention span of a 5 year old and I can at least wait 2 weeks for a product. Oh, and about the profit. The prices are getting higher and higher from users on here. Why wouldn't you just save your money and buy last year's gear in mint condition from a store or online from evogear.com or something? It's easier, faster in many cases, and a much better deal.

I really don't know why I'm even posting in here anyways, I never buy off NS.
Aug 12 2009 1:23AM
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mattytru
Posts: 2788 - Karma: 5,616
yeah shit is getting pretty bad. i just sold a saga jacket to a kid that lives maybe an hour or two away, and he was claiming it never arrived even when i checked the tracking number and it arrived two days before... i sent him the number and he said "right as i was about to track the doorbell rang and it arrived" i feel so bad about it because the kid seemed so legit, and if i lost the tracking number i would have been fucked for 180 bucks
Aug 12 2009 1:54AM
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Funnel
Posts: 7815 - Karma: 1,531
Word.  I am getting sick of all this scamming.  From now on I am sending all items via Priority Mail with a delivery confirm code (code is free when label is bought online).  I was just about to make a thread similar to this in the BST forum, in hopes it would get stickied.  There is no good reason to scam a fellow skier.  I have sent plenty of people money orders and cash, and all of those purchases have been perfect, but now I am starting to have to use PayPal and it is becoming quite annoying.  One great example, Le_Stache comes on here to sell his crowbars.  One of those crowbars he bought of Brociety, and I know he got them for like $45-$50.  He had them all parted out and was selling the lens ALONE for $55, that's more than that exact same setup cost on BC Outlet.  He had the riggers for $15, frame and strap for $20.  He sold all of that successfully so he made a $55 profit.  I called him out in his thread on it and he said "I bought this back in January and never used it."  No good reason to come back, 7 months later and flip it.  Kids were still dumb enough to buy the stuff, even after I made it well known hat he was flipping, kids thought it was a great deal, used black iridium for $45, on BC you could get that exact setup with black iridium brand spanking new for $50.  Kids on here are really that fucking dumb so that is why kids continue to flip, because kids think they are getting great deals, but really, the flipper just sits at his computer watching his PayPal fill up.  Not to mention, Le_Stache was only on here to sell, he snowboarded and was on here for the sole purpose of selling to this "stupid" site.  I would rather pay $40 for a hoodie from an actual contributing member, than $30 for that same hoodie from someone on here just to sell.  It ruins the whole idea of community.  That is why I wish there was something that did not allow you to create a thread in the BST until you had like 100 posts. 
Aug 12 2009 2:55AM
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mattytru
Posts: 2788 - Karma: 5,616
YES thats a good idea, on skateperception they have a 500 post limit. but i think 200 would be better, 100 seems a little low
Aug 12 2009 11:53AM
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Funnel
Posts: 7815 - Karma: 1,531
Yeah, 200 would be great.  But that is where some kids might go and just make random posts in the Wales forum.  It could also result in obnoxious post whores in NSG, but hopefully the mods would catch them, and by then, NS would be able to call the kid out as a scammer.  It's a simple system.  The only thing I really worry about is kids selling in Gear Talk.  Hopefully Doug or any red name looks through here and considers this idea.
Aug 12 2009 12:20PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
i would rather not disclose that information in the hopes that he will contact me eventually.

all i can say is i didnt try and buy stickers from you
Aug 12 2009 1:42PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945

Nomen, you're the fucking man. 

I agree that the member quality of this site has deteriorated.  The real "content" is usually only provided by an elite few.

In addition, the B/S/T forum is out of control, and now that you mention it, I notice that there isn't really any good natured "hook ups" going on anymore.  It is one thing to price your merchandise highly if it means a lot to you (aka Feelers) but to price your shit high to profit from it is something else.  Whoever said NS is no longer a community is right, at least in this regard.  Ripping fellow NSers off clearly does not earn us the label of a "community".

There are still some members looking to give out good deals, or at least fair prices, and I've been lucky enough to find some recently, but yes, on the whole, people have become more profit minded.  NS shouldn't be a business community.  It's a place for skiers, and skiers should hook up other skiers.

Jea.

Aug 12 2009 2:21PM
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GreenHorn
Posts: 4896 - Karma: 1,209
I just always check the feedback and if it's bad, then dont do business, if it's good, then i feel like i can trust them
Aug 12 2009 7:28PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
it sucks to admit that this is even some what necessary.
and i realize it would take a ton of work.

but what if newschoolers implemented some sort of feedback percentage similar to the one ebay uses.
just like karma, it could be displayed under your icon and post count.

when clicked on it could pull up your profile of every transaction you have had on newschoolers would come up with both positive and negative feedbacks from other members you have had a transaction with.

i know ebay keeps track and assigns a specific number to every single item sold on the site.
but i dont think newschoolers would even have to go that far.

say for example i purchased something from nomensteven, when (if) the item arrives. i could click on his feedback and leave a message for other members of newschoolers to see stating what i purchased, when, and how the transaction went, either good or bad.

i believe this way there would be no secrets to who is legit and who isnt. its posted clearly in their member profile for every one to see.


the only catch about this idea, that i havnt thought of a way around, is unless newschoolers does engineer a specific transaction number to every sale, there is no way to stop members from abusing it.

say for example nomensteven and i got in a verbal disagreement in the non-ski gabber forum over the dominant solution for solving world hunger, he could just as easily click on my feedback and leave a false message about how i screwed him for a pair of goggles which never came.

since creating this thread all i have thought about is this site, possible solutions, and most specifically the B/S/T forum.

i propose not sitting back and letting that forum go to shit. share your ideas, voice your opinion, and hopefully someone of more important stature then i will take note.
Aug 12 2009 10:44PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
part of the problem is that it has become more of a business type deal. Even back when i joined, it seemed like it was usually equipment that someone was trying to get rid of, not so much make money off. So back then people were willing to hook you up, because they were just looking to offload gear to someone who would probably put it to good use and love it. Now everyone is just out to turn a profit.

I remember old threads when people would put shit up on ebay and here, and sometimes would sell it at half of what they could have gotten on ebay just to help a fellow ns'er out. But, like i said, that was when it was about helping people out, not making all profit.
Aug 13 2009 12:48AM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945

I like this idea, but the only problem with it is that, like a mod above said, the B/S/T forum is barely regulated.  It's a place for members to deal with members, and a change like that - like you said - is site-wide, as opposed to being limited to B/S/T.  It means NS intervention there, which goes against the overall stance that the mods and the NS staff have taken with regard to B/S/T.

The feedback in profiles is one thing - it applies to the member as a whole, not just his buying/selling legitimacy.  But to see this sort of thing under every post (imagine seeing something like this all the time, like in LM or Media/Arts) doesn't fit the bill.  NS is a skiing forum moreso than it is a transaction site.  Ebay is a transaction site, that's why they have that system.

What does TGR do to keep their system running so smoothly?  Do they regulate it more than we do on NS?

Aug 13 2009 2:18AM
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UNREAL
Posts: 3989 - Karma: 23
Ive had only one transaction here and it went swimmingly. I understand where your coming from when you say you can't trust anyone anymore. I havent been here for very long (2 years member, 1 year lurk), but even I have noticed a difference in that long. I hope you get your 6 bucks back man.
Aug 13 2009 2:59AM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945

(sorry for the second post.  I slept on it.)

However....contrary to my original post about this^ we could expand the feedback system so it could give ratings.  In essence, the feedback system is member comments, which could be expanded/simplified by having every member give a thumbs up/thumbs down when commenting.

...then the only problem is it'd be harder to comment on the overall NSer, like the quality of their posts and stuff, which is something I do more often than I comment on someone's buying/selling.

The thing is, the system and the ideas get very complicated when one tries to implement these seemingly simple ideas...

Aug 13 2009 9:26AM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174

i totally agree with you blondie. newschoolers.com is not a transaction website, ebay is, if you want to sell go to ebay. but i, and most members on this site enjoy selling on this site and the "hassle free ness" of it.

until as of late.

all im suggesting is that it seems like NS NEEDS to implement some sort of security feature for transaction to go smoothly, and since that wont ever happen, the feedback rating is in my eyes the next best idea.

and i thought about your TGR question all night, and the only thing i can think of is exactly what nomensteven suggested earlier when i spoke of the demographic of this website.

TGR caters to a older and hence more mature crowd. which are capable of using paypal, not asking perental permission to buy or sell, and driving themselves to the post office. its not that TGR is monitored more then newschoolers, its because it is self monitored.

and again, dont get my wrong, its not like the minors of newschoolers are ruining the B/S/T forum of newschoolers. i just believe it takes a certain level of maturity to treat other online how you would like to be treated

Aug 13 2009 11:31AM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
seward every profile has a feedback section where users can post comments on other members (for BST and other reason) but it rarely gets used besides friends leaving shit on their friends profiles. Always a good idea to check though, and hopefully more people use it as a history of personal experiences.

as for TGR yes it is also a self policing system, but the general demographic there are better at it then we are. the BST here has evolved over the years and will always be whatever you guys make it. If people are willing to bid on items then it will work that way. If someone expects a bidding war and everyone calls them out and says "set a price" eventually that will be the setup. If people continue to do purchases without proper interaction with buyer/seller and not INSIST on tracking numbers and prompt shipping then nothing will ever change.

Like one of the other mods said, we had set up a gear trade system that ensured a complete and easy transaction every time and NOONE wanted to use it. Unfortunately we cannot regulate every sale in the forums, so its buyer/seller beware. It can be quite easy to make sure you don't get scammed, just take your time to set everything up. The "Tips for buying and selling" has some good information.
Aug 13 2009 1:01PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174

all im saying is i along with alot of other members probably dont know about that feature.

if each member had a link under their name and icon (much like karma) that led to their feedback profile, maybe it is a feature that would get used alot more often and thus help to sort the legit from the scammers.

Aug 14 2009 7:13AM
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