Armada...the next Salomon?

People see that Armada has begun to make outerwear and they assume its the sign of vertical ascent through the ski industry, but I do not think it is a credible notion. Armada began to make high quality skis with a different design than main-stream manufacturers were putting out. That said, most the money in the ski industry comes from outerwear. People buy it more often, wear it out quicker, etc. Were armada to keep afloat, especially supporting the number of athletes that it does, they were going to have to diversify their product, and outerwear is an excellent way of doing it. People underestimate the capital required for venturing into the boot and binding market, and I believe that armada accepts that there are lasting technologies currently available and that it would be foolish to try and rival them. Right now there is marker, tyrolia, look, and salomon making high quality bindings, regardless of how many ways they are re-branded. Boots are astronomically expensive to make. Armada set out to make a higher quality ski, and they succeeded in doing that. To diversify into outerwear is a lower initial investment with probably the highest potential profit margin. It is good business. Call it a fashion show of an industry if you must, personally I like that everyone looks different, so the more random clothing, the better. /end run-on paragraph.

not even close, salmon has way more dealers than fulltilt, next time you're at the hill count how many SPK boots you see.

Yeah I noticed that as well. You know gear aint up to scratch when people who are being paid to ride certian skis just dont. Its a real shame Salomon gear has gone downhill, god knows how many replacement baseplates and brakes I went through on Salomon bindings and this year I bought suspects that looked like shit after the first week. Im definitely not going near any Salomon stuff anymore!

well i live at a small mtn and i saw one pair of spk over the entire year actually i guess i dont check out peoples boots that often but i saw alot more full tilts thats for sure

I see more full tilts and Dalbellos then SPKs, in fact the only people I know that have them only ride them cause they have wide feet and those are the only ones that fit right, they usually don't like them, but that's just were I am.

bindings are a possibilty, but boots i dought it, Tanner has a sick pro model with dabello and basically dabello just makes great shit

Maybe the riders I've talked to were not grateful for what they have gotten, but both of them were definitely considering dropping Salomon because (direct quote) "they didn't do jack shit" for the lower-level riders. I don't ride for Salomon though, so I don't have any personal experience in the matter. You can't deny that Salomon has a huge team though; they would have to be almost perfect to treat all the team racers, freeskiers, mogul skiers, and telemarkers equally (on each individual level of sponsorship, of course).

I understand that Salomon does great things for the industry, such as Jib Academy, however, which is why I'm not trashing them. They have, in the past, made a very high quality product. Hell, I had a pair of 1080s for a half season. However, as other posters have stated, we all saw a significant decline in the quality this year, which is the opposite of what should have happened. The foam cores were already pretty shoddy. Remember Line skis and the invader dilemma? I think the same thing is going to happen to Salomon, but on a much smaller scale. They will come back and they will kick ass once more. I hope.

While you're on the subject of "garbage quality," (a phrase that has appeared in each one of your posts, but that's more of an argument for the thesaurus than for this thread) perhaps you could take a look into how much research and development has gone into Full Tilt boots since Raichle Flexon Comps disappeared from shelves more than a decade ago.

And I do know that ski boot preference largely comes down to comfort and taste. However, you don't see many pairs of the Nike Cortez on tracks, you don't see many Billy Baroos on putting greens, and there's a hard shell and a facemask on every helmet on every football field. If Honda started fabricating Pintos with contemporary paint jobs and leather seats, would you buy one and call it the best car ever? Probably, I guess.

Not really replying to any comments in general...just some thoughts that came to mind.

1. F Line!  I had a Line representative fit me for boots last season.  He and the owner of the place said he was the best so I took his word.  The douche sized me 3 sizes too small for a pair of Full Tilt Hot Doggers.  I knew they were too small but he promised me they would wear in.  Sure.  I skied one day on them and thought I broke my toe everytime I landed.  My toenail still isnt right from that.  Anyways, I took them back and tried to exchange them.  But the gay ass owner (if anybody skies Holiday Valley in Ellicottville, NY you will know who I am talking about) said since i skied on them he couldn't me a straight up trade.  So I ended up getting a pair of Dalbello Rampages and I hate them (Flex seems diffent on both boots and they weigh about 40 lbs).  So now I have to go back there this year and try and scam my way into another pair of Hot Doggers that actually fit me, UGH.  All because Line's dumbass rep didnt know what the hell he was doing.  Even though the Hot Doggers were crazy small I still fell in love with them, so light and such good flex.

2. Side note to 1. - I like a lot of the skiers on Line just hate the man who sold me those boots.  I will bitch slap you if I see you in Ellicottville ever again! :-)

3. Armada also has Cam Schuster (Cheese belly's brother), Sean Logan, Alex Bellemare, Blayze Bramwell and Andri Ambuehl, to name a few (Just look at their team page on their website).  These guys are all sick in my eyes.

4. I ride Armada (AR6) and I love them!

5. Hearing Hornbeck might be on Armada made me prematurley ejaculate all over the computer screen at work.

He is on armada...

Mike Douglas here. This is a pretty interesting thread. As the longest standing guy on the Salomon Freeskiing program, I can say that Salomon is far from perfect. There have been lots of ups and downs over the past 12 years, but the ups still win by a mile. I think it's great that there are so many new companies jumping on the freeskiing bandwagon. Freeskiing is not a cash cow, and the more companies we can have supporting it's growth and evolution, the better. Here are a few reasons why I like Salomon:

I hope not.. I dont want my armadas breaking like suspects!

Armada wasnt a super small unknown company when they started up. The first riders they had were tanner hall (back then he was destroying the comp scene even more than he is today), JP, Julien, Anthony, JF, and the man himself boyd easley.... a pretty stacked team for a small underground company wouldnt you say

nice the two nastiest skiers alive ride the skis i ride...b-dog and homewrecka

full tilts are popular on alot of the pro skiers that NS adores on here.......i.e. travelling circus guys, 4 bi 9 guys, and many others.

well you probably dont work at the part of the store that deals with refunds and returns because you would see piles of them damaged for stupid things.

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Have you not heard of/ seen the Salomon skis this year?  the Suspects and Threats were crappy this year.  I witnessed Threats getting destroyed by hitting a small rock directly behind me on my chronics hitting the same rock.  My other friend's Suspects broke.  Alot fo quality issues this year. 

The griffon and jester are NOTHING close to the Reactor bindings.  Wow they look similar without a plate so they must be the same thing.  NO.  The Reactor had full pivoting toe and heal.  The Reactor could but transferred form one ski to another.  The toe pieces look alike and they both have the dildo heal.  So in your logic the Reactor and Royal family line are the same as every Look/ Rossi binding.  The Griffon/ Jester have virtually no features that the Reactors had. 

Peopel sitll use FKS/ FKX and every other turntable Look/ Rossi.  I have never had a bad experience with any bindings.  All bindings companies make a good binding.  And there was nothing wrong with the Marker bindings before the Royal family.  I would ski on a pair of free 12's.  I skied on the 12 eps on a pair of MO2's and it was a sick setup. 

Atomic and Elan make a majoriy of the skis that are out there and they haave great quality, just a sidenote.

Cap skis do not suck.  Please elaborate on haw a cap construction sucks.  In most people's and my experience cap is more durable.  I have no preference. 

Armada will never make boots or bindings.  There would be no point in spending alot of money to try and compete with the binding and boot companies out there.  Also, when Armada released their outeerwear line, the first thing I said was "Really?  Do we need more companies making outerwear?"  There are a ton of outerwear companies and I personally do not think another one is needed. 

I said this forever ago

wow...ummm, I really don't know what else to say. I want to be very clear when I say that in NO WAY was this against Salomon, if fact if anything it was thanking Salomon for bringing this sport this far. I know it's summer so the hate level is up, but I have no hate for Salomon - I simply stated what I saw happen to their product this past season. I just wanted to say that I think that Armada is one of the companies that will take this sport to the next level. I know Salomon has put A LOT of money, time, and effort into this sport and I know they will continue to do the same. I hope people don't get the wrong idea about this discussion, I really don't want it to be an "I hate Salomon" or an "I hate Armada" thread, I simply want people to discuss what company they feel will be the company that brings our sport to the next level. Thanks.

armada is the next armada. that is all.

I was referring only to the skis when I mentioned poor quality, I said nothing bad about the boots because I know they are quite popular but I think when it comes down to boots in general just because a lot of people use a certain boot doesn't make it the right boot for everyone. Anyways I have no idea where you saw me saying "Full Tilts are better" because you seem to be arguing that since the boot design has not changed for a long time they are poorer quality (that is what I understood). Now in most cases new technology and innovation are awesome but there are always some products that just seem to work really well no matter what other new products are introduced (see Look P Series/Rossi FKS Bindings) and gain a cult popularity. I love how you assume that I am someone naive enough to think something is good just because it looks new and fresh, the way you see it I would be buying fancy painted Line Reactor bindings and calling them the best of all time without pausing to look at what their track record was.

You say Full Tilt is a fancy look to a shit product but how many people complain about their Full Tilts crapping out on them? And then Mr. Symms tell me how many kids have made threads about their Suspects, Dumonts and Threats exploding. I know you get paid to rep Salomon and I respect that, and I'm sure you love their products but don't hate on another companies' gear thats just weak.

okay haha here we go again
Full Tilts, never said they were more popular simply that they will give SPKs a run for their money seeing as they have only been reintroduced for a couple of years
As for Suspects, just look in Gear Talk and there are tons of threads about broken skis, torn out edges and blown sidewalls, and it seems the edge armour is in fact doing more damage than protection... not so good for "the biggest company in freeskiing"
Bindings, only addressed what the guy said: He said lightest binding. I wrote the lightest binding, quality and performance was not in his point.
I am aware that Armada skis are made in Atomic's Austrian factory since I own AR6s and I don't see what the point ther is since Armadas are extremely durable and I have heard great things about Atomics as well...
As far as I know your information about cap skis is somewhat flawed, I think you are referring to the Alpha skis which use their elf shoe tech or something and though it may look like cap it is actually a sidewall construction that is then covered over by a cap giving the best of both worlds, cap durability with sidewall performance

whew...

my dad was telling me that olin made the first twin. sorry i couldnt find a better pic though haha

turpin has been on armada for a few years now...

the most important thing about armada is that mike hornbeck is on their pro team now

/thread

Doubt it, they'll make him serve AM time for at least a year or two

mike hornbeck is pretty much confimed on the team, cause tanner hall himself said it on the hornbeck thread

HA they have all that good sounding specs, but when to take them to the park for a day and they blow out unexpectedly, you'll be thinking otherwise.

bro you started off your argument with talking about how popular SPK is, and how full tilt isnt any competition. in my mind it sounded like you were kinda saying they were better, but i could be wrong. then you go on at the end to talk about how people should not support the super popular and to go with a company like moment. i find that to be a little contradicting.

reading this makes me lose hope in all of skiing. god some of you people are dumb.

i would agree that salomon does support a lot of things, but when you use as part of you argument (not what i quoted) that you put a lot of ads up, thats because you have more money. any company that could afford that would do it. about what i quoted, you have no grounds to say that salomon can be liked for their rocker series in my opinion. none of your rockered skis have tail rocker that i am aware of, some of the recent advances in rocker recently made by other companies such as moment arguably help floatation more than salomons. also, to the guy i quoted about, you called the suspect "a nice flexy ski." they are much less flexible than most park skis and in my experience weren't as lively.

Not at all.  Salomon is a money seeking gaggle of crap product, and Armada does nothing but make sick edits, ski hard, and make progressive, innovative, and bombproof skis.  They also warranty just about anything :)

straight up, at least someone has the balls to say it.

I remember when armada first came out. those were the dayz. the dayz of freeze magazine. aww.

the original team was legit and the current team is legit. armada has definently grown. but everyone konws the dopes ski company without a doubt  is LINE.

this guy knows whats up

as soon as line quit producing skis in canada,i feel that there quality went down tremendously. i remember having a pair of motherships that were built in canada and lasted forever, still got em actualy, and then i bought a pair of chronics that were built in china and had to have them replaced twice due to defects. i just hope armada stays strong to their roots, but at the same time companies have to grow and expand and in todays economy that means making shit products in fucking china

DIdn't Line make the first twin?

I ride SPK's--Kaos's to be exact--because my feet are wide and fit in them better, however I really like them.  I would rather ride Full Tilts or Kryptons or something, but I have no problems with my boots, they're really light and comfortable.  I don't like Salomon gear (I rode on a pair of Foils for 2 years, they sucked), but I can truly vouch for those boots. 

I agree. Armada did everything the right way in the beggining, but they are fadding out in my opinion, and all because their team sucks. They are not taking good care of the team letting good riders, not promoting fresh talent fast enought to am-pro teams, and not "cleaning" the pro team of past times glories that are now out of the game. The fact that Anthony, JP, and specially Julien are part founders/owners is not letting the team evolve as it should.

seriously jp and julien rip which ends up resulting in one of the best rockered skis out there the jj. Anthony has a great style and can ski about anything. Your just looking at the young gun jibbers hucking themselves thats not the only aspect of skiing.

I just wanted to address one thing.  Just because LINE is owned by K2 doesn't mean that they're a super-megaconglomerate or anything like that.  They're not run by K2, LINE skis aren't the same skis as K2, the names are not interchangeable or blended.  LINE very much is its own company, it just happened to be bought by K2 which LINE needed so that it could get the funding it needed to make shit happen.

Also, I don't think that big companies are necessarily the enemy.  Atomic makes great quality skis, as does K2; the Hellbents are revolutionary and perform spectacularly in the deep stuff, the Extremes are fucking bad-ass, and honestly, who doesn't love Obsetheds?  Not to mention the Pontoons, which Shane himself would swear by.  While smaller companies do tend to make better stuff because they're hand-made, that doesn't mean that big companies are suddenly the enemy. 

That doesn't mean I'm defending Salomon.  I know tons of people who love their Suspects, but we all know that tons more have had big problems with them.  By the end of my time using my Salomon setup, the bindings didn't even hold me in anymore: coming off in midair, coming off when I popped off the lip, coming off when I landed, and all of this without properly releasing, my foot just came out.  The skis were retarded, the foam core sucked because I couldn't stomp any landings, they'd go all squirelly and I'd get taken off my feet.  That was last season on some 06/07 gear, but still, it just says something about them overlooking quality. 

About Armada: I always saw Armada as a titan, not necessarily in actual company size, but in their team.  They have a stacked team, and they always have.  I remember watching Claim thinking, "Okay, even though TJ now rides for CoreUPT, at the time this movie was filmed, Tanner, Jacob, TJ, Boronowski, JP, and others all ride for Armada.  Shit, yo."  The AR6 is pretty much king of the park, let's face it, and the JJ is one of the kings of backcountry and big mountain.  So even though they're a small company, their influence is, in my opinion, already pretty big, and I think they have the opportunity to be one of the most influential companies in freeskiing without losing their commitment to quality, innovation, and overall badassness. 

Do I think they'll be the next Salomon?  No.  Salomon as a company has been around for over 50 years.  Obviously their freeskiing divison hasn't, but that gives them untold power.  It would almost be like if snowskating suddenly became bigger, and so Nike or Element, who already have big skate divisons, started up teams.  Armada came out of freeskiing, and they'll always be at the core of it.  Freeskiing is not a divison or a branch of Armada, it is Armada.

 P.S.
My Chronic/Griffon setup is sick, I love it.  Go LINE!