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Armada...the next Salomon?

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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
So I was thinking about this last night. Right now, Salomon is the biggest company in Freestyle, they have the most gear (skis, boots, bindings, outerwear, helmets, poles, the only thing they don't make are goggles), the biggest team - ranging from some of the best urban riders to some of the best big mountain riders, and everything in between, and the most history - lets face it, they created the first twin tip, they pretty much started it all for us.

But, right now, in my opinion, Armada is on its way to the top. What started as a small company with a few skis, now makes some the best skis out in all disciplines, in the park they've got the T-Hall, AR6, Pipe Cleaners, and now the Alpha 1 and 2, for All Mountain they've got the AR6, ARv, El Ray, and for Back country and Big Mountain they have the ARv, ANT, ARG, and of course the ski that many people consider to be the best ski out right now the JJ. But now, Armada isn't just about the skis, they have some amazing poles with the most comfortable grip I've ever held, and now they have gloves and outwear added to their collection. That being said, it wont be long till we see bindings and boots coming from Armada.

But, as we all know, it's not all about the gear, the team has a huge deal to do with what we buy, lets face it - how many of us want Antidogmas simply because T-Wall rides them, or Dumonts cause Dumont rides them, or any ski for that matter - the reason we buy them is because someone we know and look up to rides them. Armada has a very diverse team, with guys like JP Auclair, Anthony Boronowski, Julien Regnier, Julien Regnier, Phil Casabon, and of course the man Tanner Hall, but now it seems that it has grown even more and added some of the best park skiers to its team, while it's not been comfirmed, it looks as though both Mike Hornbeck and Chris Turpin have been added to the Armada team.

This being said, it looks as though Armada is on its way to the top of the Freestyle world, they are still pretty far off from Salomon - but then again, Salomon has a few years on them. But look how far they've come, just 7 years ago they we're a small cult company, not too much different then ON3P is now, and in a short amount of time has become one of the most well known ski companies in Freestyle.

Thanks for reading, I know it was long but it's summer and I'm bored...Thoughts?
Aug 3 2009 8:33AM
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summersover
Posts: 5777 - Karma: 233
its certainly looks like that is the direction they're headed in
hopefully that doesn't mean they will become impossible to contact and produce crap quality skis like Salomon has been doing lately
Aug 3 2009 8:36AM
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Marissa.M
Posts: 450 - Karma: 61
I enjoyed reading that so thanks for posting. But I do agree with summersover. They seem to be moving up in the skiing community and so far, I haven't heard anything bad about their products. Salomon on the other hand...Let's just say I am a bit disappointed.
Aug 3 2009 8:55AM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Yeah, it is disappointing that Salomon has declined so bad in the past few years, we can only hope that Armada learns from Salomon's mistakes and keeps they're product rock solid.
Aug 3 2009 9:01AM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,033
This is genuinely an interesting argument. With Armada moving in to outerwear etc, they certainly seem to be making a push to become a 'big' company. Line Skis is another company that is selling lots of skis. I can't tell if its more than Armada but i guess so. They also have a great team of riders and manage to get across the image of still being a small company. Actually I think they do a much better job than Armada at giving off the image of still being small. I like their team and support such a large percentage of the up and coming, and the creative.
That said with Skiing expanding its audience again it seems there is more space for the small companies, maybe even in these difficult economic times. Moment only started 'mass' production at the beginning of 08/09 and have already grown well known. Surface is another company that is doing its own thing and gaining a following. As a result of this and things like the birth of On3p on here, I think and hope skiing is going in the direction of Skateboarding. By which I mean a greater diversity of companies (to some extent) and more small/local companies that gain a following. There is obviously super companies that many 'core' people don't like in skatebording (Dwindle dist. Plan B etc) might equate to salomon. Line and Armada might be closer to DeluxeSF brands. But now we have an increasing small company market, Moment, Surface, On3p etc could fill the gaps of companies like Traffic and local companies Cliche, Blueprint, Landscape etc (all bigger in europe). Maybe some of the comparisons don't hold, but I would also hope that Armada doesn't become Salomon, with accusations of defective product (edge armor) and poor customer service. Line is the only exception I make to my small brands rule (only buy from small companies) and I don't quite know why that is.. Maybe its just good marketing.

Aug 3 2009 9:20AM
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mackinnon
Posts: 5153 - Karma: 161
were you in a coma for the past season?
Aug 3 2009 10:03AM
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Austeeze
Posts: 807 - Karma: 18

Good topic! Armada is definately known as the the number one freeskiing brand worldwide with the other "traditional" skiing companies like Salomon, K2, Dynastar also pushing hard and expanding in this area.  Always loved the ethos that Armada have towards our sport. Very similar to Line Skis, in that i see Line following in the steps of Armada of creating the awareness of the sport. 

Does this mean though that there is not enough space in the market for the lesser independant freeskiing brands like Faction, Moment, On3P, Obsidian, etc...?

Aug 3 2009 10:05AM
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J-Neal
Posts: 1545 - Karma: 172

Well written.  If Armada keeps progressing at the rate they are I would not be suprised if they became on top of the ski world like Salomon is now. But unlike Salomon,hopefully Armada keeps their good customer service and product quality while they are on top.

Interesting stuff though.

Aug 3 2009 10:16AM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
Well said^ and maybe and appropriate comparison would be Salomon=Element, who went from just decks and other stuff to everything, including shoes. BAM!!11one!!! And does this mean if I want Ar6s I should buy like two pairs now?

Well, if Hornbeck and Turpin are on Armada, hopefully they are doing it because they like their stuff. When people start choosing Armada because they are paying more than others is when they start getting similar to Salomon. When they start saying "we can't use this on our skis because it will cost more, but we can use this. It's a little worse, but nobody will notice," that's bad. I think it would be a little naive to say that I would rather ride for a company I like rather than one that pays more right now though. I hope they don't go in the same direction Salomon did.

That doesn't mean do not get big, but don't rely on your team to sell your product as much as the product selling itself. A good product shouldn't need every pro out there vouching for it, although most of them do. That's not to say i wouldn't buy a Pipe Cleaner if Dumont started riding them. All they really need is a bunch of people to realize how good some of their stuff is and to spread the word. If you can get more than half of us stoked on JJs or Ar6s or soemthing, and every other thread creator listing one or more Armada ski in the list of next potential skis, that's all you need. Not that I encourage you to buy whatever a random person says on the interent, but when 8/10 people say the Ar6 would be a good ski for you, you know Armada is doing something right.

Branching out is good for them, if they make good skis, there outerwear should follow suit, right? I've ridden Ar6s before, and i know they are a quality ski. So as long as i don't see any edge armor or target symbols on them, they may very well be the next ski i buy. And they still have that small company vibe, kinda like Line. They're getting bigger, but not Salomon big. I have Chronics now, and I'm happy my money went to line, and I'd be happy to trade some of my money for some Ar6s too.
Aug 3 2009 10:22AM
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wintersway
Posts: 5115 - Karma: 128
Very well written and a thought that has passed through my own mind when outerwear was added into their line. It also got me thinking of those smaller cult companies like on3p, moment, faction, etc. They are all small like Armada was when it first came out. (If anyone remembers the podcast about the team talking about Armada back when TJ was on it; I think it was the 10 year mark. TJ had no idea what Armada was... and even thought they were new salomons or rossignols) Well, if Armada came up out of nothing and is now a mass produced ski company with multiple models that are considered the best ski in that specific area of the mountain that they are made for... Will all of these other companies make it there?

I am sure that a few will. Moment is definitely growing up and once they make it to most shops, I'm sure the sales will skyrocket. ON3P has what it takes too, in my opinion. They get to advertise on here to any freeskier, and they sure know how to get us interested by dropping prices before theyre even out yet. I don't know about you guys, but I am noticing that more and more people are recommending the Jeronimo's to anybody looking for a one ski quiver, or an all mountain park ski. It is definitely catching the attention of everyone.

So what does everyone else think? Will the smaller companies grow up into huge companies? Or, will they want to stay small and only sell to a small group?
Aug 3 2009 10:40AM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
Armada will never be like Salomon. Salomon is too invested in other areas of skiing. They have huge amounts of money and support from outside resources, many more riders, and less personality from what I can see. They don't treat their riders all that well either from what I've seen.

I really hope Armada can get the same recognition in the skiing world, but that will never happen. Too many people other than freeskiers know about Salomon.
Aug 3 2009 10:44AM
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highaltNM
Posts: 552 - Karma: 52
Armada has come a long way in my book.  I remember when I gave up my blue/yellow 1080s for my green/black AR5s.  That was a loss of market share right there when I moved off of salomon skis for good.  HOWEVER, SPK Pros are the the shit in my book 
Aug 3 2009 10:45AM
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Dizzyskier
Posts: 364 - Karma: 114
Line isn't a small company- they happen to be owned by one of the largest sporting goods companies in existence.

A large push for the outerwear stems from the fact that it is easy to make triple the money on outerwear versus hard goods.
Aug 3 2009 11:08AM
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BigZero
Posts: 1120 - Karma: 103
I'd put my money on Atomic becoming the next salomon, and before the recession  started Rossignol dominated skiing.
Aug 3 2009 11:14AM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,033
Atomic is part of the same group as Salomon.
Aug 3 2009 11:18AM
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summersover
Posts: 5777 - Karma: 233
haha
but I don't understand how the guy you quoted sees that anyways Atomic has a small variety of products mostly just skis, boots and the odd accessory but their stuff is super high quality compared to Solly
Aug 3 2009 11:20AM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,033
If you reread my post, I never said Line was a small company. I said they maintain the feel of a small company. The staff are mostly the same as before they were bought, they are still easy to contact and good about warranty (from what I hear). This may or may not change.
I know full well who owns them but I hear that Jason Levinthal made sure he still controls the direction and product of the company.
Aug 3 2009 11:22AM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
no, maybe you misunderstood what I said, last season Salomon put out what was supposed to be the two best parks skis ever (The Dumont and The Suspect) however they simply fell apart after a very short amount of time, so much so that Dumont himself rode the previous years ski with the 09 topsheet, and their customer service is extremely poor. My hope is that Armada is able to deal with the growth in their company in a way that allows them to continue to put out a great product and awesome customer service.

Yes, Salomon is a HUGE company, I am simply comparing Armada to Salomon's ski section, more even just their Freeski section. It would be unrealistic for Armada to grow to that size since they are not focused on anything other than skiing.

Line is another company that is on the rise, the only downfall that I see right now is their team. While they're team is very well know for underground riders (like us here on NS) the rest of the world really doesn't know them (try asking a non park skier if they know who LJ is, they probably wont know), while Armada has Tanner and Jacob who are very well know within the winter sports community, and Tanner is even pretty well know outside it. Line really doesn't have any contest riders (major contests like Xgames, Dew Tour, and such don't really have any Line riders), if they were to get a few of them I think they would blow up.
Aug 3 2009 11:23AM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1435 - Karma: 1,895
?321#?12#?12#?12?#12?#!@?3?$4325?34?  my head just exploded. someone...please enlighten.
Aug 3 2009 11:39AM
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tedmgee
Posts: 1502 - Karma: 111

moment is getting bigger pretty fast.

Aug 3 2009 11:48AM
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tedmgee
Posts: 1502 - Karma: 111

but back to the subject. armada and salomon are the biggest two compaines in skiing. so i cant compare.

if a random kid decided to start freeskiing he/she are most likily to get armada or salomon skis since its big name

Aug 3 2009 11:50AM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
not trying to correct you but they didnt make the first twin, the made the first mass produced twin, but not the very first
Aug 3 2009 12:01PM
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Shlogan
Posts: 4942 - Karma: 430
i think it is inevitable that salomon is going to lose their sales to a brand like line or armada, and the fact that they are now making lack luster skis is not helping that at all. in terms of line vs. armada i think they could both become top companies, and would love to see both of them continue to grow at the same time. one thing that worries me though is line moving their skis in the direction of being stiffer than before. for example, the ep pro is 15% stiffer now, the afterbang is a different and i have heard stiffer flex than its predecessor the invader, and they are now making the chronic kryptonite which will be another stiffer ski in their line up. because line has such soft skis in general i don't think this would be such a bad thin, but it does move them more into armadas relm of skis which may take away from some of their business imo. i also hope moment, surface, and bluehouse grow because they are sick very personal companies.
Aug 3 2009 12:08PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
this is true, which was kinda my point...before Salomon no one really knew about twin tips.
Aug 3 2009 12:14PM
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*stew
Posts: 488 - Karma: 124
yep
Aug 3 2009 12:18PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1435 - Karma: 1,895
*!)(*@(^#*@&^#@ there needs to be a news story about the history of Freestyle skiing. It started before the 1080, for reals..
Aug 3 2009 12:20PM
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ashamedkrew
Posts: 1194 - Karma: 424
ya actually i think line is owned by k2.. read that somewhere
Aug 3 2009 12:26PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-tip_ski

the first twin tip ski was the Olin Mark IV Comp.
Aug 3 2009 12:31PM
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Dukeybrains
Posts: 1030 - Karma: 11
salomon boots fit my feets the bst
Aug 3 2009 12:32PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
truth, but it is its own entity inside K2, therefore it has the small company feel with the big company money.
Aug 3 2009 12:35PM
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Rogge
Posts: 5773 - Karma: 3,930
Salomon is insanely courteous with their riders. I mean, really, your statement couldn't be further from the truth. Hell, ask any journalist and/or photographer and they'll tell you the same thing. Salomon is very generous and sees the return on helping people.

I like the way Salomon allocates their resources into cool events like Jib Academy and produces great entertainment like Salomon Freeski TV. J.A. is a chance for the younger kids to shine and brings the ski camp vibe to the forgotten and overlooked places of the skiing world. And Salomon Freeski TV? Please, don't get me started. A+++

I really enjoy the people over at Armada and of course, I love LINE Skis (I ski LINE) but I don't believe their success is paving the way for them to become the next anything. These companies are great because they are run by smart and dedicated people that care about skiing. Their future is to become the best company they can be.

The ski companies I enjoy the most are the ones that exist on their own and create a fun yet powerful niche regardless of their size. Salomon is awesome because they're Salomon, just like Armada and LINE are awesome because they do their own thing. When companies stop competing and start producing the same product, skiing will die because our sport is fueled by innovation (copyright: ESPN X-Games)
Aug 3 2009 1:03PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
jeeeeeeeeeez. i think it would be cool, as there is now, to have many small companies competing for a better product, lower prices, etc, like every other market. i think a little bit of this thread is 'oh X is the best company, they should take precedence of all of the others'. no thanks. in my history of owning freestyle skis and equipment, i've bought from many different companies for different reasons. I love that diversity and would rather have it than any one company having hold of this market.
Aug 3 2009 1:12PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
yeah, such as this. the more the better.

also, thanks thread creator for such a good discussion. it's cool to have a nice discussion thread.
Aug 3 2009 1:16PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
This is true. My point wasn't that they should start producing the same products, in fact they shouldn't, because like you said with out competition there is no drive to push things further. I was just trying to say that Armada could be the next big company - the face of the sport if you will. There's no doubt that Salomon has pushed this sport to what it is today, but I feel that Armada and Line are the ones that are going to push it further.

Also, it's good to hear that Salomon is so good to it's athletes, it would be a shame if all those good riders were treated poorly.
Aug 3 2009 1:16PM
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mophead
Posts: 1172 - Karma: 309
All Armadas are twin-tips, Salomon has an entire range non twins and also race skis, not to mention they make a huge variety of other stuff for other sports. I don't think Armada is heading in that direction.
Aug 3 2009 1:20PM
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jsaya_SagStraps
Posts: 1840 - Karma: 29
No, Line is really cool because they do that. They have less known skiers on their team that deserve recognition, but make no mistake, they still have their skis everywhere. Line shows that you don't need the most well known skiers to be heard of as a ski brand. And I don't think they need to "blow up" as you call it, Line is marketed primarily at people on this website, and we all know about Line. Line also isn't trying to reach a ton of mainstream consumers, that's K2's market. So no, I think as long as Line continues to make good skis and support skiers that deserve it, the brand doesn't need to go anywhere.

Needless to say, I think that any ski brand that continues make good skis for us freeskiers, doesn't really need to "blow up" anywhere but in the domain of newschool and freestyle skiing. Believe me, I think newschool skiing needs to blow up and gain more supporters, but if you are a freestyle ski company, you should stick to the newschool market.
Aug 3 2009 1:22PM
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Shlogan
Posts: 4942 - Karma: 430
agreed
Aug 3 2009 1:25PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
very good point, I know Line likes the fact that they are "underground" and I wasn't saying that they should do this, I was simply saying they really wont go much further then they are with out contest riders, now whether or not they want to is up to them. I don't think any company needs to blow up, however if say a company was to grow more, it would bring more attention to our sport. For example, if it wasn't for company's like Burton and Sims weren't around snowboarding wouldn't exist, but it's companies like Ride, Flow, Rome, and Forum are what make it what it is today. Those companies started small, but became more mainstream and eventually were a huge factor in getting snowboard half pipe in the olympics. Now look at Armada, it took what Salomon started and is trying to take it to the next level...just think of what our sport would be like if Armada succeeded in getting ski half pipe in the olympics (yes I know they're aren't the only ones trying, but they are the ones pushing the hardest for it). It's all about growing our sport, if the companies grow then sport grows, but the sport can't grow without the companies.
Aug 3 2009 1:41PM
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Rogge
Posts: 5773 - Karma: 3,930
LINE is marketed? (Josh Malczyk shaking his head in anger)

Just kidding.

I agree with this statement.

:-)
Aug 3 2009 2:33PM
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Anders_F
Posts: 675 - Karma: 861
The next Salomon? Idk about that, as far as the team goes its a little out dated to me. lots of respect for JP, Julian, Anthony, and (Turpin???), they did alot for the sport no hate at all. but every good team has gotta have some fresh talent, like b dog, but thats about it i think they need to expand that team. Also whos got the source on Hornbeck?
Aug 3 2009 2:51PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Turpin just threw a triple, the first one done in freestyle, and it was clean and very non-aerialist, in that video he is riding Armada's Alpha 2's, now while he might just be trying them out, that doesn't seem like something you throw while "just trying out" a pair of skis. Hornbeck himself release a short 15 sec clip of him in FULL Armada outerwear and riding Alpha 2's, basically saying "I'm on Armada now". But I agree, they do have some older guys, but so does every team, but they are starting to get the younger guys including Casabon, Wester, Hornbeck, and I forgot to mention that Beau Wells is on their National team (he's the younger brother of Jossi and Bryon Wells) and he's 12 or 13 and throwing clean 12s. And this summer it seems like Armada is trying to fill the void left by TJ last year and is filling it up pretty good.
Aug 3 2009 3:03PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
Click for larger image

Declined? DECLINED????

What was the most played out/popular outerwear look this season?

The G-Suit

What ski did half the kids in the park have?

Suspects

Who makes the lightest freeskiing bindings?

Salomon

What boot is the most popular amongst park skiers, period?

The SPK

Who Sponsors every grom prodigy in the making?

Salomon



Don't get me wrong, I love Armada, but Salomon trumps them as far as market share.

Salomon also has Amer Sports behind it, which is pretty much the largest sporting goods company in the world, it's annual revenue rivals some fast food chains.

I don't see Armada ever getting as big as Salomon is today, at least not without merging with another brand or corporation, which is less than likely.
Aug 3 2009 3:18PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
Alpha 1
Aug 3 2009 3:20PM
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mtsteez03
Posts: 748 - Karma: 122
i love armada and there quality of product is amazing, prolly all ill ever ride
Aug 3 2009 3:25PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
my bad.

and to you other post, you are correct, right now Salomon is the biggest company in the industry (or atleast one of the biggest) and Armada probably can't really compete with that. But, my point is that Armada is going to take over where Salomon began, they are the company that is going to take this sport to the next level. Yes, the most ridden/worn merchandise came from Salomon last year, but I'm not talking about last year, I'm not even talking about next season, I'm talking about the future of freeskiing. And, I am by no means hating on Salomon, I'm simply predicting what company is the future of this sport, and I could be very wrong, but this is the way I see this sport heading.
Aug 3 2009 3:27PM
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summersover
Posts: 5777 - Karma: 233
What was the most played out/popular outerwear look this season?

G-Suit-> Very popular though few people actually got it

What ski did half the kids in the park have?

Suspects-> Garbage Quality Skis... awesome definitely leading the pack

Who makes the lightest freeskiing bindings?

Salomon-> Marker Jesters and Griffons are lighter

What boot is the most popular amongst park skiers, period?

The SPK-> Full Tilt has something to say about that

Who Sponsors every grom prodigy in the making?

Salomon-> Though Jib Academy yes they find all the best groms

Aside from that, What the OP was saying was that as far as just freeskiing products will Armada soon become as big as Salomon Freeski. The decline is not in popularity or market share but in quality of products and customer service
Aug 3 2009 3:30PM
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yaaaie
Posts: 333 - Karma: 536
 
Aug 3 2009 3:31PM
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TheHundreds
Posts: 330 - Karma: 10
Nope.
They do not make a racing ski. I don't think Armada will ever make a racing ski. That will defeat the purpose of what they started out to do.
Aug 3 2009 3:36PM
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Willard
Posts: 5117 - Karma: 429
mhhm i think saga in general was super popular...and there was more full tilts than spk
Aug 3 2009 3:39PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
missing the point...only take in consideration Salomon Freeskiing - not race, not touring, just freeski. Again, it's about pushing OUR sport - Freeskiing, and only Freeskiing.
Aug 3 2009 3:42PM
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spliff.Life
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 1,549
olen mark made the first twin tip i thought
Aug 3 2009 3:44PM
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