Origins of biblical scripture

Read this http://creation.com/peacock-tail-tale-failure

does there exist a place on this site where one may have an intelligent exchange of thought with other members WITHOUT the interruption of idiotic tweeners arguing irrelevant semantics?

Holy shit Joshua, give it up. Your facts about everything are so wrong. First off, as many people have said evolution does exist and that's how humans and every other modern form of live came to be. Even the Church that you are so stubbonly defending doesn't agree with your bullshit. The modern Church believes in Theistic evolution. Here is what it is, straight from Wikipedia...

Careful, it's not like there are no cultures in between the Neanderthalic  hunter gatherer societies, and our totalitarian-agriculture. There have been thousands of cultures that have been tried, practiced, and eventually over-run by our culture today.

You can see that the agriculture we practiced not only provided us with substantial amounts of food (which caused population increase -- it's not that we have any choice over this, the more food you have the more babies you have, that's just how life works.) but it also demanded that our way of living spread. You can't just be happy with a contained amount of totalitarian-agriculture, the population will sky rocket, and you'll need to continually expand, looking for more land to claim as yours to grow more food to sustain your unnaturally high population.

Another thing to consider is that each culture has their own traditions. We started out simply farming, but began to have a need to write things down, we began needing to write things down, to support the auxiliary consequences of having all this extra food. It use to be that you didn't have to store this food, you didn't put it under lock in key, food was available for anyone and everyone whenever you were able to get some. But all of a sudden our new agriculture system needed a place to store all the extra grain, to keep track of it, and to trade it. The result is that our style of life is the most labor intensive (compared to calories consumed) in the world. Just think about this, not only do you need to spend the energy to grow the food, you've got to spend energy to store the food, to transport the food to the market, and to sell the food; on the other side, us non-farmers must go out and get a job, do our work all week long, to earn money, (a completely meaningless substance outside our culture) to buy our food. Compare this to the fox that simply needs to wait around, stalk a bunny rabbit, and pounce on it when he's hungry, our style of life demanded this highly complex system of work and energy to support itself.

Yipes, i've gone off on a tangent, what i meant to get to in that previous paragraph was that traditions vary in each culture, i've explained why we have such the record that we do. It must be understood that there are many cultures out there that never had to spend the time creating a written language, or creating mathematics or inventing crazy technologies to support themselves. This does not mean that alternatives existed; For example a culture who had a predominantly oral history will not be able to be found by us now if everyone of that culture is dead...for obvious reasons.

It's very difficult to gain a perspective on our way of living, as it's the only way we've ever really interpreted the world, since birth. We should be able to realize our strangeness, but compair this task to the task of understanding why some tribal cultures practiced canabalism, or human sacrifice, and it's just as hard. If you tried to imagine a life where the Aztec culture was the hegmony, where human sacrifice was NORMAL, that it brought about good fortune for the crops, or that Maori canabalism was completely normal -- I'll admit it's dificult for me to understand.  We can apply this difficulty of understanding to the task of recognizing the bits of our culture that are crazy.


again i've gone on for too long, i'm sure i've lost all but the most dedicated of audiences at this point, thanks for reading thus far. I suppose we could go on to some of the crazy practices of our culutre, but i'll save that for a future post, if someone actually made it through all of the above.

What about "living fossils." there are species such as coelacanth that are supposed to have evolved and died out millions of years ago have been found alive today.

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/forumthreads/cat_id/4393/

That is not what the church believes. Don't try and educate me on the church ive been a part of it my whole life. That is what some Christians believe and it is totally wrong. There are many different denominitions within the church and this is just what one group believes. They do not speak for christianity as a whole

might i add that a major problem with the evolution theory is the evolution of plants. pleas read this:

You Sir are a dumbass, I'm Catholic and this is essentially what we were taught. he's referring to The Church, not a church, meaning Catholicism. stop posting before you ruin yourself more

also: how is your karma still higher than your postcount?

When a species evolves, it does NOT become extinct.  Fucking idiot.  There become two species.  It's like a fork in the road, one goes this way, the other goes that way.

The origin of life is yet another problem with evolution please read this also: http://creation.com/the-origin-of-life-a-problem-for-evolution

did you read the article?

worrrrrd son

All you're doing is finding ignorant single sided arguments.  Shut up dammit.

what about them, what do they prove to you? weren't you looking for those half evolved specimens? As they are related to both  lungfishes and tetrapods, this would be a prime example for you.

Horseshoe crabs are also 'living fossils' the term simply means that they are examples of the types of life forms that existed millions of years ago, and that their evolutionary processes have been so refined that they've been able to live in pretty much the same form for all that time. It's a sign of good evolutionary design, *shudders at the thought of what might pop into your head from that one* by evolutionary design i of course mean that they've evolved in such a way that has protected their species from predators, and that their environment hasn't been effected in such drastic ways that they're capable of consuming and reproducing the same way they did millions of years ago.

your problem is you're going around telling people to read your creationist magazine, but you obviously haven't spent the necessary time to mull over the actual story of evolution. I wrote an entire section last night predominantly directed at you, to give you some understanding of what we're talking about. It's blatantly obvious that you either skipped it, or didn't really process it.

sorry mods i no you didnt want anymore large texts but its smaller than some peoples posts

which post are you refering too. Thank you for at least explaining what you think and giving reasons not just saying its all bull shit

what you've been saying is all bullshit, but i didn't feel like i needed to state the obvious. You can simply go back a page and look for my posts, it's not exactly research

Alright, if I could kick your ass over the internet I would.  I explained everything last night and you blew it off, stop being so fucking ignorant.  I explained exactly what I thought.  You are so out of it kid.  I am REALLY sick of it.  All you did was post articles from a creation magazine that only make me laugh.  Why would someone create that?  WHY!?  Evolution was never intended to go against religion.  P-Face is dead on.  He knows his shit and I should probably stop talking and let him explain stuff.

again, i have said many times evolution was not created to go against Christianity, but it has become a crutch for atheists

NO IT IS NOT!!!!!  I am Catholic and I believe evolution.  Quit being so FUCKING stupid.  I have been Catholic my whole life, yet I still believe evolution is true.

here is an article refuting your peppered moth argument

how can you believe in evolution and creation? the bible is very specific: six day creation, not billions of years

this.

I'm not terribly older than you and I understand these concepts. Think a little for yourself. Maybe try to get out and experience the world, or at least read a book?

Just so you know: even The Church doesn't teach a literal meaning to the Bible anymore. To believe in such is the epitome of idiocy. The Bible is man's interpretation of God. obviously it's going to have flaws and exaggerations, because humans have flaws and exaggerate things. Was the world created in 6 days? Maybe, but its doubtful. These stories are there to teach a lesson, not to be our history books. You said some things have been proven or thought to actually have happened. This is obvious as legends are based on facts. it doesn't mean they are, word-for-word, truth. Stop using half baked thoughts, and partial truths to defend your ignorance

I'm only going to post 1 more time in this thread, to answer the Original Post, mainly because i can't even remember the original question in order to fit it into this post. nice threadjack joshua.

You're just too fucking stupid.  I'm done here.  You won't reply when you have no comeback and you are a ignorant full of shit fuckhead.

and it has become a crutch for atheists. I realize that it is not a crutch for you and that you are not an atheist but many people are atheist because they believe in evolution. There are way more atheist evolutionist's than Christian/Catholic evolutionists.

just because you say it doesn't make it true... Unless, here let's try this; Evolution is not a crutch for atheism, it is a rational explanation of the process of life based on empirical observation and historic records.

On the contrary;  belief in the existence of literal word of God in an English bible is a sad excuse to ignore reason and logic. Why is the bible true? Because God wrote it. How do you know God wrote it? It says so in the Bible. This is a fundamental flaw of logic.

 Just because you think that anyone who produces some counter argument to your beliefs, could be the devil tempting you away from God, doesn't make it so, and it doesn't make their counter arguments false. It means you are picking and choosing what facts to accept and deny on completely subjective grounds, and are not participating in an intellectual or fair discussion.

you guys also have yet to come up with solid arguements against my peppered moth, plant evolution. and origin of life arguments. Im talking actual arguments not just "its onesided" or "your just and idiot kid"

The Bible has no flaws. God inspired people to write it. He made sure there were no mistakes.

Same here. I'm thinking this kid is just an epic troll.

also to answer the original poster:

The origin of most of these books is supposedly prophets. Those that aren't written by prophets were written by people who were alive during the time of Jesus, and who were apostles. However, if you read the stories, they are very similar to other cultures throughout history (I believe the word is archetypes?) So the actual origin of the stories is questionable at best.

That being said, there is a great deal of scripture locked up in the Vatican, that very few ever have access to, as someone already posted, so we'll probably never know the full scope of what the Bible should actually be.

Oh, and one final thing, as I said, I'm not much older than this joshua kid, as I'm 16. People like him are the reason teenagers, and Catholics get a bad rap. Please don't judge all of us based on dumbasses like him. Thanks.

Joshua, the wikipedia page i linked INCLUDES a section on the creationist take on things, if you cannot use that to clear up the issue for you, just quit. As i said you're not prepared to have an intellectual or fair discussion on things.

Pull your head out of your ass.

I'm done here too. have fun with the troll guys.

Have you read all the articles ive posted? These all explain flaws in the evolution theory and they point to evolution not being true. As i said last night, i am not a scientist, but a creationist and you would have a very good debate i can tell.

WORD.

I came up with my arguments last night and all he has done is said Jiberish and sopied and pasted stuff he thought might convince us because it looked legitimate.

this just has far too much oppinion in it to warrant a response

no, i would not have a 'good debate' we've already attempted to make a fair playing ground, but all you do is link to your creation website, and hope that it is sufficient to refute any points being made. However you fail to recognize the bias that comes from your creation sources, and do not consider what has actually been said.

my moth example was given to show you how the process of natural selection works, how environmental changes effect populations. It is an example of micro-evolution, which even your sources accept. Unfortunately you've failed to connect the reason behind the use of the moth example, what the moth example shows, and the arguments your side tries to use against it.

It has absolutely nothing to do with mating - NO SHIT. It is a defense mechanism, peacocks don't just strut around with their feathers spread at all times. They fan them out when they feel threatened, the appearance of hundreds of eyes and an increase in size scares potential predators. They don't have hands or claws or sharp teeth to defend themselves, how else do you think they have evaded predators and still exist to this day?

Stop trying to prove that God exists and Evolution is bogus due to retarded facts like "Well dinosaurs didn't have feathers" and "Well why do peacocks have those big useless feathers?"

Take a fucking biology course or go to the zoo. The shit you are trying to argue against with that bogus Creationism website is all shit that 3rd and 4th graders learn in school. Come on man.

I'm not opening this thread ever again, the ignorance and stupidity in here is absolutely astounding. I refuse to have any more debate with somebody whose only means of rebuttal lies within the extremely biased and bogus information provided by some radical Christian website.

I'm not saying that Christianity is wrong, but when you try to interpret the Bible literally and use passages and quotes to explain UFO sitings, Extra terrestrials, the origin of peacock feathers, and how Evolution has spawned racism and genocide, you're doing a lot more bad than good.

I don't know what "Church" you belong to. This is a statement from the International Theological Commission issued in July 2004, which is now headed by Pope Benedict XVI. (again from Wikipedia)

Well i guess this is not the thread to discuss this stuff ill stop posting too as long as nothing else compelling gets posted. Sorry creator of this thread but I had to stand up for my believes. As I said before, you guys should have a chat with a creationist if you ever have the chance as they would be able to explain things much better to you. One last thing: if you want evidence for God simply talk with one of the millions of Christians and they can testify all that God has done in their lives. It is something you can't really fully understand until you become a part of it. People don't give-up their lives and get run over by steam rollers (Yes that has happenned before,) Or get ripped apart by lions for no good reason

And i am not alone in my believes there are many churches that still hold true to the Bible and do not except evolution

/thread unless otherwise told by the creator of the thread

Now you realized you proved nothing and you are an ignorant cunt good.  I agree /thread along with large amount of stupidity within this thread. 


Ghostfacekillah.  I apologize for jacking your thread.  The ignorance from Josh really set me off and I kept trying to explain stuff when it was a total waste.  Josh, stop going against evolution until you understand how evolution works.

I still hold firm to my believes by the way, i have just given up trying to explain to you b/c it is obviously not working

please shut up, i am fucking serious.

some weeks ago, scientists proved that some wild sheep race in scotland isnt reaching the heights and weights of 40 years ago. they are all about 5 % smaller because they dont need as much fat to survive the shorter winters of nowadays.

this is prolly just one of 1,000,000 evolution facts. and i would bet everything i have that the earth is not the only place providing life in the universe. i stated that somewhere else and will do it again:

there are around 50,000,000,000 galaxies visible from earth. everyone of them could contain around 100,000,000,000 stars (our galaxy contains even three times as much stars) with theoretically hundreds of planets/moons to provide life. so if the probability that a solar system generally has what it takes to provide life is 1:1,000,000,000, there still would be 1,000,000,000,000 of these solar systems, with billions billions of planets.

and religion is not fucking up the world, fanatics & fundamentalists are.

....................................................

i mean.....what?

When you don't understand how evolution works of course Christianity is the only one that makes sense.  Don't you just love being open minded and looking at new things and possibilities?!

thats absolutely right, but most die-hard christians dont live that way. and most of them havent lived like that in the past. to me, the biggest problem with christianity (although my family and the whole area is very catholic) is how they treated the most intelligent people throughout the times. galilei is probably the most important example. he was a catholic, but stood to his discoverings. and got fucked. kepler/kopernikus/newton created models of a heliocentric universe and proved it with observable facts. and what did the church? they admitted around 1980!, that the earth IS NOT the center of the universe.

the next thing with the church is, that they converted so much people with so much blood, terror and fear for the "unbelievers". religions a good thing, it keeps people together as a community. but too much is too much and i cant have a religion that has blood on its hands.

haha gotta love the skiing terminology.

i do understand the basic idea of evolution and now you are being the thread hyjaker b/c u just won't drop it.

ok.  if you do...please explain it?  You can keep it super basic, but I am really, really interested to hear you explain the basic idea of evolution.