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theabortionator
April, 2025

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Obama is a lieing sack of shit.

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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Yay for political threads. Ha just kidding, lets honestly not put too much politics in this thread and stick with facts. Here goes.

Obama made a a whole bunch of really important promises that got him elected. Only problem is he isn't really keeping to his word. How does the rest of NS feel about this?

Take for example gay rights and the military. Obama made the promise to end Don't Ask Don't Tell which won him probably millions of votes and he's yet to do anything about it. He says he still has to convince people to go with the change but he's Commander in Chief and could choose to end the enforcement of it but chooses not to.

He also promised to stop raids on the Medical Marijuana dispensaries which happened for a little bit but they're back at it prosecuting innocent people in the eyes of the state.

There's more but those are two big ones stuck in my head.

This video sums up a lot of my feelings towards Barry right now.

16 years ago
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Arabian.
Posts: 9671 - Karma: 483

haha. Okay, Hugo and Every other retarded conservative. You forget to add that into your point. Also, how is Obama further left than Castro? Lol it makes no sense your reasoning. Just because someone says it does not make it true. Also, how is Obama not republican? Raising base taxes, publicly trading Iraqi oil, keeping DADT, spending like a madman... How is that rediculous? Don't judge him by what he claims to want to do. judge him by what he IS doing.

Obviously you missed the point about republicans being furking idiots. They are sitting on their hands doing nothing. When given bailout money, they refuse it. When told to help, they do nothing. When asked to add things to the stimulus package, we get fluff. The Republican party is doing nothging to further their party. They are just being little fucking kids refusing to put their shoes on.

16 years ago
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mac.N.steeze
Posts: 652 - Karma: 6
just look at it this way

Click for larger image
16 years ago
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21104 - Karma: 8,582
You think I don't' know that?  You're not getting the point.  Yeah, we're excaccurbating the greenhouse effect.  The earth would probably reach those levels without us eventually, we have just sped up the process.  Pretty much everyone now knows that.   You obviously didn't read my post carefully.  I'm saying that cap and trade is a worthless way to address the problem as there are so many ways arond it.  It does nothing for the economy except benefit already corrupt corporations.  Additionally, not only are the caps too high but they do nothing because there are so many ways to get around it.  There's better ways of doing it than through cap and trade.  Don't even get me started on the worthlessness of the new "monumental" and "progressive" environmental bill.

Also, you speak of hydroelectric.  Hydro power is ridden with just as many environmental problems as using oil, it just doesn't have any emissions so people uneducated in the subject view it as a great source of energy.  Just to name a few, it causes huge water displacement through evaporation and damming, sediment builds up at the dam which fails to reach downstream which leads to downstream erosion and lack of nutrients making it downstream.  Also, another HUGE problem with damming is that it actually increases flooding.

Oh, and don't forget that we (the US) has a treaty where we promise Mexico a certain amount of water each year and thanks to our damming of the Colorado River and the Rio Grande, they get literaly nothing of what we promise them, leaving their country to rely on underground water sources which cause huge problems of their own and is a big reason why Mexico City is literally sinking right now.  Lets not even talk about how the Colorado River and the Rio Grande (previously Mexico's main sources of water) dont even reach the ocean anymore thanks to damming and water distribution to water hogging areas like southern California, although they are getting better about it.

but as far as the cap and trade and the new environmental bill goes, I suggest instead that we provide education, subsidies, and incentives rather than more laws and limits on what we can and can't do.  Encouragement does much more than limitations.  That's exactly why the drug war has failed.
16 years ago
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ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
do you not read what I write.

First, the way you write this makes it look like youre saying Hugo is a conservative. I hope you dont think that.

Chavez said that obama could be further to the left. Not me. read what I write. I never said that made it true, and I wasnt implying that. The only thing I was saying is that when other socialist world leaders are in support of socialist policies our president wants to enact, that is not good. Even if the president is not socialist. If we were enacting capitalist, free market policies, they would be pissed. If we enact socialist policies, they welcome us and are happy we are turning socialist.


Alright, I think youre trying to argue that he's conservative...because I just see political parties as a little letter next to people's names that give people campaign money and tell them how to vote. Fuck the republican party. I want to make a point, Bush and McCain(barely) may have been republicans but they were far from conservatives. Republicans typically in history did not spend like Bush. Do not think he represents what republicans and conservatives think. Conservatives do not want rediculous spending...that has always been a democratic thing (FDR, LBJ). They do not like to raise taxes. I dont know about Iraqi oil. All of those are ridiculous.

Heres what a conservative what have done in office.
For the economy...lowered corporate taxes(this worked in Ireland very well) and put a break on capital gains taxes to encourage growth and investment in businesses which equals JOBS.

Health care: Conservatives want it reformed, but reformed int he private sector, from tort reform, to buying insurance over statelines, and many others.

taxes: Conservatives want them lowered for the most part.

What is Obama doing...
Passed a stimulus package spending billions of our dollars that failed terribly. As in affect, everyone will be taxed, from the rich, to the poor through inflation and interest rates. Its fucked up that 4/8 months ago, we had half as much money in circulation.

Health care: he is pushing this bill which is not even going to insure that many uninsured.

He is pushing cap and trade. this is obviously a tax on everyone and not supported by conservatives or republicans (that is republicans with a brain).

He is pushing card check, which will allow people to vote whether business's employees will be forced to unionize, from big corporations to my dad's small business. These votes will not be anonymous, so if a union knows you voted against them, you're in for a shitty time. if republicans and conservatives support this, then fml.


look at the big issues and the policies he is pushing through congress right now. its obvious he is not even close to republican or true conservatism.


16 years ago
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ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
Are these cap and trade legislations already in effect to the degree of ours?

Do they potentially require government officials to inspect your home to see if its effecient and require you to retro fit it with new appliances or a new roof to sell our house (Ina time where we need to help housing sales)?

Do they give people who earn less than 150% of the poverty level check to offset the costs of the bill (THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE GOVERNMENT ADMITTING THIS WILL COST EVERYONE A LOT OF MONEY. If this is just a postage stamp a day, why do the poor need check? This bill is just another entitlement program.

Do those bills include things in the legislation that will allow Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid to take money from the general fund because of loss of funding? do you know that that means? Loss of income taxes...from job losses. These things are straight form the bill.


WCI straight from their website...
The first phase of the cap-and-trade program begins on January 1, 2012

I think you said a couple posts before that nobody saw any costs from those. Its true, because they havent been enacted. The actual design of the plan wasn't even completed a year ago. It wont even be fully implemented till 2015.


The RGGI only reduces Co2 by 10% by 2018.



Obama himself said that it would make energy costs skyrocket. Obama even said that cap a trade would prob. bankrupt the coal industry. coal accounts for 51% of the energy sources for the country. taxes on coal are bad for the country.

Show me that the other cap and trade programs cost even close to ours. What countries are they in? Do they include earmarks like ours. Are they what, 1300 pages too? meaning, do they include all the BS ours does? Did they tax cow farts? Ours did.

We dont need to get in a global warming debate in this thread, but scientists in the EPA are getting skeptical of the thought of man made global warming, and issued reports, to which they were fired. The earth has been cooling the last 10 years despite increased co2 levels. The rest of the world is starting to recognize this BS. look at Australia. i highly doubt the rest of the world has cap and trade legislation even close to the amount of control and cost that ours is? show me some that are even comparable.


MIT has the study showing americans will lose 3100-4000 a year. The tax foundation said it would cost 2% of annual income. Congressional Budget office figure was 1600.

(I was not saying 3000, i said 1600-3200)

16 years ago
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a--1
Posts: 484 - Karma: 23
i don't think this is correct
16 years ago
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cfox
Posts: 2286 - Karma: 41
no?
16 years ago
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a--1
Posts: 484 - Karma: 23
what?
16 years ago
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Pee_and_Ski
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 57
well i voted for him, guess im going to hell
16 years ago
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a--1
Posts: 484 - Karma: 23
not true
no one can have an opinion about him because he hasn't been in office long enough to do anything spectacular.
16 years ago
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AwR
Posts: 5148 - Karma: 1,899
[]
16 years ago
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
uhh it was an election campaign?? what the fuck do you think happens? they say what will get them elected..
obama is a celebrity, he deemed to be the biggest spender in presidential history, and his promises were shit.
but you have to realize that one person cant run a country and the president does not have all control. its mainly congress. most of the time it wasnt george w. bush fucking up, it was congress, but its easier to place all the blame on one person instead of the system.

obama is a lie, the demos of the country are silent because they were wrong, fuck everything

molotov cocktail party at the white house
16 years ago
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selkirks
Posts: 1979 - Karma: 62
We're going to get into a climate change debate if you're going to say that scientists are getting "skeptical" about man-made "global warming."

Take a look here:
http://www.grist.org/article/the-scientists-arent-even-sure/
http://www.grist.org/article/there-is-no-consensus/

We're going to get into a climate change debate if you're going to say that the Earth has been "cooling" for the last ten years "despite increased CO2 levels."

Take a look here:
http://www.grist.org/article/global-warming-stopped-in-1998/
http://www.grist.org/article/some-sites-show-cooling/

And you're wrong about Australia too -- they passed legislation last year to ban the sales of incandescent light bulbs, thus saving 4,409,245 tons of CO2 from entering the atmosphere by 2012.

But, go ahead, be ignorant about climate change/global warming. Go ahead, wait until the Palmer snowfield is gone and the Horstman glacier is just a memory. Go ahead, wait until skiing is completely gone from the Appalachians and just a useless mass of chairlifts in the lower Alps. Go ahead, wait until the snows of Kilimanjaro are gone (which will happen by 2020) and the snowfields of Australia and New Zealand are just dirt covered mountainsides. Go ahead. Nothing's stopping you.

A recent United Nations study showed that global warming could eventually limit skiing to mountains with base elevations above 5,000 feet. This would present difficulties for many resorts in the U.S.

Now, bringing all that information back to the cap/trade debate. Suggest to me a piece of legislation that would reduce CO2 emissions by the same amount that a cap/trade system would. I'm all for international dialogue, especially with China and India. You know, the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) is having a meeting later this year. I'm all for shelving the bill (keeping it on the table, but waiting to vote on it) until after the IPCC discussion. That way we can make changes to bring the bill up to international standards and it can still take effect in the same year. I'm all for that; but the era of American arrogance is over. The US, as the #1 emitter of CO2 on Earth as of 2004 (the last year data was available), has a duty to ourselves and to the rest of the world to cut our emissions. That's a fact; we are no longer better than the rest of the world. It's time to act. Be it cap/trade or something else, the time is now.

And forgive me; I got really off-topic on that. If you want to continue this dialogue, I will gladly create a new thread.
16 years ago
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nick_GAPER
Posts: 1033 - Karma: 7,751
ive yet to see an increase in the number of dimes and nickels
16 years ago
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21104 - Karma: 8,582
I'll give you an idea, read my post and stop relying wholeheartedly on legislation to fix everything that goes wrong.  All that has ever ended up with is us (the average citizen) losing personal sovereignty and personal rights/freedoms. 

Embody the change you want to see, don't rely on others to enforce it upon yourself.
16 years ago
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selkirks
Posts: 1979 - Karma: 62
Unfortunately without legislation Americans will still be buying gas guzzling Hummers, ExxonMobil will still be seeing record profits, and companies will still be emitting as much greenhouse gases as they do today.

Simply embodying change does nothing to actually work toward change. Eventually, you have to act to bring forth change. That time is now.

Like I said, I will gladly start a new thread for the whole cap/trade debate.
16 years ago
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21104 - Karma: 8,582
I beg to differ.  Embodying change is the definition of working towards change.  Enough thread jacking though.
16 years ago
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502

See, I find this kind of shit infuriating. Essentially, you think the government is better at making decisions than the people. That's bullshit. It seems like the other way around...
Not to say there aren't a fair of idiots, but by expanding the reach of the government, all you're doing is reducing the liberties of the people. Now, it seems like a lot of people with your train of thought were bitching oh so much during the bush administration for that very purpose...

Fuck obama, fuck his outrageous spending



16 years ago
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youRsmellA
Posts: 349 - Karma: 236
cap n trade seems great really. the problem is that energy companies will use good american business sense and pass as much cost to the consumer as possible. this problem is usually solved by competition between companies. lower prices to win customers. but in this case, like banks, the control is in the hands of the very few, and those few have fucked shit up!

we need more choices in america. i voted for nader not because i liked him, but because i want there to be more than 2 choices next election.
16 years ago
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selkirks
Posts: 1979 - Karma: 62
I never said that at all. But the fact is, Americans will not act to reduce emissions unless they are forced to do so. That's just American culture. Americans tend to want the biggest cars, the biggest homes, etc. The stereotypical American lifestyle is not green. At all. American lifestyles are not going to change unless they have to do so. And that's American arrogance at its finest. I'm sorry, but at this point, legislation is the only way to fix the problem. I'm not socialist, anti-American, etc. And I don't support nationalized healthcare at this point. The stimulus bill has done nothing to help the economy. But the climate bill is an isolated case. Something must be done; I don't care whether or not it's cap and trade, but something must be done.

Now I end the threadjacking. Sorry for the repetitive nature of the above, i'm tired and I'm typing from an iPod.
16 years ago
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youRsmellA
Posts: 349 - Karma: 236
people can be rewarded for positive action rather than punished for negative actions. buy a small fuel efficient car the govt sends you a small check? might take a little work to make sure people don't cheat the system, but the way it is now the system can easily cheat the people.
16 years ago
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21104 - Karma: 8,582
you as in the majority of retarded Uhmericuh you?
16 years ago
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
holy shit.... is this the second or third time ive agreed with you..... haha

i agree that youve gotta practice what you preach, and theres no rule against you starting. haha
16 years ago
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America
16 years ago
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21104 - Karma: 8,582
Yeah dude, the only way we're gunna get things to really happen is by creating the change we're working for from within.  Forcing people to change their habits works just about as well as forcing people not to do drugs.  However, showing people how to change through example is a much more effective way of working than through legislation that penalizes lazy and/or greedy people to do so.
16 years ago
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Dr.Dickless
Posts: 2620 - Karma: 1,392

aren't all politicians"lieing sacks of shit" seriously every politician in the history of our country has lied, fought, basically done whatever it took to get elected then ignored all of his campaign promise it's just the nature of politics

16 years ago
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Except most don't outright promise complete transparency in their office then slowly but surely go back on their promise.

This particular politician got elected by promising to not be like the other guys and then became one of them. I really thought this guy would be different...
16 years ago
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
just because hes the president, it doesnt mean the rest of congress will pass votes on his behalf on major decisions.
16 years ago
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[Rush_Dangers]
Posts: 293 - Karma: 7
to the thread creator- 


                                                  i can understand your frustrations with our new president, and i would like to say that im as skeptical as most about him, but with that said the guy has only been in office for 6 months, how can anyone make a decision yet about if he is a bad president or not, it seems that since he won anyone that didnt vote for him is just sitting around waiting for something to chastise him about. IMO that time should be spent comming up with a half way decent candidate on the republican card for the next election, and they would have a chance( unlike the circus they called their ticket last election) im neither liberal or conservative, i base my vote on whos the better person for the job at the time.


all im trying to say is why dont you make this thread after a year and 6 months or maybe even 2, when we really know what hes been doing
16 years ago
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
1. Do you have documentation of George Washington promising transparency and honesty like Barack?

2. No one in this thread has even argued legalization. If you would kindly read everyone's posts you would realize we commented on his sheer disregard for the subject even though it was his number one question for his 1st town hall meeting. We also pointed out that Obama explicitly promised to stop raiding MM dispensaries during his campaign and has since reneged on that promise.

3. Please don't tell me to "shut the fuck up" when it's you who are too lazy to read people's arguments and jump to conclusions on things. Not once did I say anything that isn't backed up by fact in this thread. Others I can't speak for.
16 years ago
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
besides, you should be really wary of what a consevative run media will say about a democrat.
16 years ago
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
I could care less considering I'm not a Democrat.
16 years ago
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Funnel
Posts: 7818 - Karma: 1,590
hahaha, I turned on the T.V. and it was Obama.  hahaha.  I was just like: "Oh god."
16 years ago
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[Rush_Dangers]
Posts: 293 - Karma: 7
hey isnt it funny that since obamas election  fox news turned into the daily show

it really seems like they are so bitter he won/   its so the way of childish that its funny
16 years ago
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Ok I guess I'll say it again...

Where in any of my posts have I questioned whether Barack is a good president or not? All I did was point out an instance where he outright lied and another instance where he can change the current policy right now but refuses.

I'd really like an answer from someone. Because honestly, I've clocked my karma and it's gone down 200 points from posting this thread. All I did was point out 2 instances. I didn't call him a muslim, or nazi, or any of that bullshit being spat around. And yet people -karma me, and yell at me, and call me an idiot for posting nothing but truths. And these truths really aren't scandalous. They're just two big ones that I though Obama would have a different approach to. All I asked for was people's opinions on TWO instances. Not his whole goddamn presidency.

/rant
16 years ago
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
you called the president a liar. a person a lot of people admire and administer hope to. and said you didint care about the falsification of "liberal" media. no shit you're going to lose karma.
16 years ago
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[Rush_Dangers]
Posts: 293 - Karma: 7
first i will never rate anyones karma down based on opinion/ so your safe with me

but ill say it again because it related to your two examples-  its only been 6 months,...... so please calm down and be patient,  then we will truely know what he has promised and not come through on

i should have rephrased what said about you calling him a bad pres.   im sorry,...  i MUST have jumped to conclusions on your opinon of him  when your thread title read "obama is lying sack of shit"

so my opinion on your 2 topics are -  take some time let him be president before you pick him apart, i mean come on  your 2 examples are for things that are complete back burner issues,  im a huge pot head also, but there are many more urgent issues at hand than "dont ask dont tell" and growers charged federally-(this issue hitting particually  close to home cause some of my best friends freedoms are at risk with that situation)   

/rant
16 years ago
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anTii_SteeZe
Posts: 610 - Karma: 53
fuck obama
16 years ago
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[Rush_Dangers]
Posts: 293 - Karma: 7
thanks to you sir  for adding your intelligent,  insightful, and well thought out  opinions to this matter.

Bill O'Riely is very proud of you
16 years ago
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Cool. Thanks for an intelligent response. +real life karma for that.

"Lieing sack of shit" was meant to be sarcastic. It's those damn internetz not being able to convey something so subtle.

And I'll repeat what I've already said. He is Commander in Chief of the United States Military. Even if he can't get rid of DADT (thanks arabian for the acronym) he can at least stop enforcing it. And for the MM issue I'll link you to this article http://www.examiner.com/x-4106-California-Statehouse-Examiner~y2009m2d26-Holder-to-stop-raids-on-medical-marijuana-clubs it clearly says that what Obama said about dispensaries is now American policy. I'm still baffled as to what changed, and one can only assume it is either from Obama changing his mind or overlooking rogue DEA agents.
16 years ago
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[Rush_Dangers]
Posts: 293 - Karma: 7
its possible its rouge agents, but a simple fact about MM store owners is that almost none of them conduct business only with card carrying members, so as soon as the DEA gets wind of them selling even a joint to a non card member than they are open for investigation,mostly because they sell such large amounts of pot in the first place.  The DEA prolly just doesnt want these legal avenues to become the way for illegal drug trafficking, cause it would be pretty easy for them to if they wanted


the govt seems like they arent sure how they want to deal wit this issue untill they can gain good foothold on the profits

but thats just my 2 cents
16 years ago
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
its an opinion dude...  chill out jesus...  many liberals just hated on Bush the way a lot of guys are hating on Obama...  soo, too bad...
16 years ago
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.peter
Posts: 1222 - Karma: 63
the fact of the matter is that bailouts aren't doing anything but giving the people who screwed up more money to throw away. And raising taxes isn't going to help anyone because nobody has the money to pay for them.
However in places where money can easily be taken away (Military spending) it isn't. We live in a Military state 20% of our anual budget goes to military spending and no one in government wants to change that. If you ask me all of American politics has to be reconsidered and reworked if we are ever going to make any progress.
16 years ago
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
here's a catch-22..........everyone becoming scared of "gas-guzzling SUVs" and goes out and buys high mpg car, hybrids, etc.........gas tax revenue goes down and theres less money to build new roads and repair old ones?
16 years ago
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dave44
Posts: 11052 - Karma: 113
16 years ago
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J_Dums3
Posts: 146 - Karma: 89
i was serioulsy dissapointed by this years election.  all of the candidates sucked.  if our politicians continue like these ones did, i'm moving to switzerland
16 years ago
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
try living in canada, where half the population probably didnt even vote because they were so unsatisfied with who was running. and we look like were heading to another election this summer. i think we just voted this fall. we must have two annually if not more! now thats bullocks.
16 years ago
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