Stupid Book Alert: Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein

I was at a small punk show one time and a hole got smashed in the wall by some dude accidentally and some idiot punk girl (who was smoking cigarettes from a large tabbacco company no doubt) had the wisdom to blame capitalism for the hole in the wall. Stupid people.

The appeal behind socialism of helping others is obvious. The problem is that in order to help some you have to hurt others. That is why a socialist system has never and will never delivery like capitalism does.

That book looks like it sucks. To make up for it, pick up Glenn Beck's book, Common sense. Its about $6 and you can read it in a little over an hour. All the sources are in the back and you can do additional research.

i had to read the book "no logo" by her for a business lit class... no words can describe the suckage of that book

While it is a good thing and has made our world what it is today (whether you think it's good or bad), capitalism can be somewhat blamed for climate change, in that it brought about the industrial revolution (powered by coal), which subsequently began adding more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere (climate change).
With that said, I do love my ipod and all the other neat things I have.

lol

haha, capitalism caused global warming, or climate change, or whatever its being called this week?

look at China. communist, correct? and the largest coal burning country in the world producing more "greenhouse gasses" than any other.

just saying, it would have happened regardless.

That was awesome!!!!

i've read a chapter or 2 from it for a sociology class. It's....interesting i guess... but it's just seems very speculative and like "oh everyone is out to get us and take advantage of everyone" and it sucks for that reason. It may be true but you don't feel very good after reading it, or at least I didn't.

haha of course you would read this book in sociology. the science that trys to pick apart all other sciences without saying anything productive themselves. dont get me wrong, i do value sociology but sometimes the people in it piss me off because they think they are considering every angle.

Did you know that the worst polluter in the history of the world was the USSR, and that centralized governments do a much worse job of protecting the environment than groups of people with private property?

Climate Change is just a result of our ridiculously high standard of living that we have obtaining by using energy burned from fossil fuels. This has nothing to do with capitalism it is merely the result of our usage of gas, coal etc. Would you rather live in pre-industrial times when there was no such thing as electricity?   

another bad book is 'america alone'

I'm not saying that it's only capitalism, but think about it-- it's because of capitalism that we have such a large amount of corporations that produce a lot of products, most of them made overseas now.  Before capitalism it was mostly craftsmen and individuals who made everything that people needed; now it's large companies making the goods, which are produced in huge quantities overseas, which are then shipped to stores and homes.  These products have increased our demand for fossil fuels, not only in their use (they require large amounts of gas, electricity, etc to run (electronics, cars)), but in their transportation and their production, among other things.
This ties in directly with China's being the largest producer of coal in the world--they are the perfect example of a growing country brought on by capitalism.  They now need massive amounts of energy to power all of the factories that produce the products, plus, their cities are growing at exponential rates, causing them to need more energy to power/create them--this is due to capitalism taking a much more leading role in their society, even though they are led by a communist government (that definitely sounds really contradictory and I don't even know if their economy is really mirrored by their government...you tell me!)
With that said, I like going out and camping and getting away from all of the modern conveniences in our society, but I definitely like coming back and sitting around playing xbox, so I'm not bashing capitalism, I'm just saying, in the grand scheme of things, (seeing as it brought about our high standard of living) it is definitely one of the things that brought about global warming.
I took a course on climate change last semester so I feel like I know a lot about it.  Maybe I'm wrong on some points but I think that's the jist of it.....

All that you just explained is called international trade and is essential to the way that you and I and billions of other people live. If trade stopped happening billions of people would die for want of food, medicine, and all sorts of other things.

I think China is a perfect example of how capitalism improves lives and countries like nothing else can. If you visited China in the 1960's, just 40 odd years ago. You would have found a third world country where millions of people died every year from hunger and only the most elite members of the Communist party had any of the amenities of modern life. Fast forward to today and though China still has some problems feeding its rapidly growing population most if not all of it's problems that it faced during the Moaist 60's have been solved, largely thanks to the opening up of its markets.  It has gone from third world to world power in just 40 years thanks to capitalism.

Anyone who thinks capitalism is a bad thing is a complete dullard and should be forced to live in a country that doesn't have free markets for goods and services and then see how much they hate capitalism then.

Lets take a look at Canada without a little socialism,

You hurt yourself skiing, you go to the hospital and you insurance doesn't cover your health care costs, you dig deep into your credit cards and pay off the bills, but your hurt too bad that you can't go to work, because of this you lose your job next thing you know your out on the street, bankrupt and the only people willing to help you is the church throws some soup cans at you once a week. No welfare, no EI.

Socialism doesn't "hurt" people it makes the gap between the rich and the poor smaller, it allows those that are downtrodden to live healthily and happily buy taking money from the successful people who don't need that money.

And although there are many advantages to Capitalism and trade there are arguably worse concequences, however this is the natural progression of economics.

see but from the conservative perspective thats their hard earned money. there is no such thing as an inherent economic advantage/disadvantage depending on what your born into. its all about "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps"


and as far as healthcare goes, something to keep in mind. it is mandated that when someone comes into the ER, they get treated, regardless of whether they have insurance or not. so, would you rather as a taxpayer pay the absurdly high costs of ER visits for people with no insurance, or the comparatively cheap alternative of preventative care, and avoid the ER visit in the first case? in the long run, thats a hell of a lot cheaper.

bad example, china has a communist government, but they have a 100% capitalist economy... though i agree capitalism has not caused global warming, it would have happened anyway.

fuck yes ben i knew you would see the light eventually. :) damn straight its my money.

that book is definetly stupid but as a capitalist myself i still feel that more social programs in places like the US would be beneficial, I mean if you look at the top countries in the world they are almost all capitalist socities that have been unfused with socialism. Pure capitalism definitely creates huge injustices overtime and really isnt fair, and that is pretty much a fact if you look at history.

capitalism sucks flame me i dare you

but in the process of achieving these social programs the government must take from peter to pay for paul's hip replacement. and IMO the government is a very poor allocator of resources...

Let's be blunt here--we are not a family with legal obligations to support one another.  We are a nation of free individuals whose only hope in getting along lies in respecting the rights of our neighbors--including those who simply wish to be left alone."

----Jason Lewis, March 2009

i think this sums it up nicely :)

I really like that quote. +K

I also agree with what you said above that and i do not want the healthcare system that obama is proposing

i need to point out again. no matter what when someone goes into the emergency room, they must be cared for. it doesnt matter if they have insurance, or money, or anything. they have to be, period

would you rather be paying these absurd bills, or the much cheaper option of just making sure they stay healthy from the beginning with preventative care.

Free health care is the best sounding worst idea ever.

I think you are turning this into a health care deabte when that is not where I was going with this thread at all. The USA has a shity private health care system. Canada has a shity socialist (public) system that I guess you could argue is a little better because we care about universal access. However people in Canada have to wait years for services that can be performed in a matter of days if we just jump the boarder and pay. Either way they both suck but the ideal health care situation in my eyes would be private with alomst everyone under some form of affordable insurance. The few number of people who could not get insurance would just go to a private clinic and the government would end up having to pay for it.

I along with everyone else like Obama because he is a good person and Americans needed a good positive image to further foreign relations with the world. However he is not an economist and I believe that much of the spending in his stimulus package will just cause inflation and not really help in the economy in the long run. Which after all was the point.

i don't know, depends if you can afford health care or not. 

if you're poor you want it to be socialist, but if you're not, you don't want it because you can pay the price which comes along with better and more efficient care.