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Generic or underground ski brands?

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jibbinc
Posts: 804 - Karma: 33
I didnt know what to callt them sorry
Anyways, my friends dad is wondering why he should buy his son 4Frnt skis over K2's
So why is Line, 4Frnt, Apmlid etc better then K2, Head, Rossignal etc?
May 31 2009 10:56PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
Plain and simple, they aren't any better. Actually in alot of cases, they are worse quality wise.
May 31 2009 11:00PM
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Ski.Ballet
Posts: 2860 - Karma: 200
Most companies make good skis. It all depends on what you're looking for in a ski. It's not like you usually pay a premium for smaller companies either.
May 31 2009 11:03PM
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Holte
Posts: 10740 - Karma: 7,814
...doesn't his kid have a reason for wanting 4frnts over K2s?
May 31 2009 11:04PM
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tBatt
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 580
they only make park/freeride specific skis, so they are more familiar with how durable to make them, frequent problems, and how to hold up to abuse.

...or something like that.
May 31 2009 11:16PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
well imo they both make crappy skis, soooooo

he should get whatever skis he wants
May 31 2009 11:17PM
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PBraunstein
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 3,804
you do realize that Line, a company you named as "underground" and K2, a "non-undergound" company are the exact same company?



4FRNT sucks.
May 31 2009 11:20PM
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jibbinc
Posts: 804 - Karma: 33
He wants to get into Park, but still generally wants an all mtn ski.
Hes looking at the STL's with Deadbolt 314's for 300.
but his dad wants him to go to sportsmart and grab some K2 ski.
May 31 2009 11:24PM
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jibbinc
Posts: 804 - Karma: 33
Yeah i know, but your not goign to find a Line ski at an all sports store

Why does 4frnt suck?
May 31 2009 11:25PM
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ski-swagga
Posts: 5276 - Karma: 219
4 pairs? seriously?
May 31 2009 11:27PM
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dodgeridge*rider
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 25
ive had two pairs and both started chipping badly after the first use
May 31 2009 11:28PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
You can't really make that judgment about Line and K2. Just because one is owned by the other doesn't make them the same company. That's like saying Rossignol is the same as DC. (Ok some products are similar and some might be the same, but that was only for the first year or two).

And 4frnt by no mean sucks. You are ill informed to the extreme. They might not have been the best quality 4 years ago but they have progressed leaps and bounds for you to outright say they suck.

But to answer the OP's question. First take this to Gear Talk next time. You don't get the stupid answers you'll get in Non-Ski Gabber. And it's really your preference and what you want out of the ski and the company that determines your purchase. Throw up another thread in Gear Talk or ask a mod to move this and I can tell you more in a little bit. But I'm sure your questions will be answered before I get back.
May 31 2009 11:29PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
alex, you owned bents.
Jun 1 2009 12:14AM
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summersover
Posts: 5777 - Karma: 233
pwned
Jun 1 2009 12:17AM
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special_k10101
Posts: 1498 - Karma: 72
there are no specific advantages to getting a generic brand ski vs. an "underground" ski brand
some underground brands have much better quality than more established brands, and may also have better warranties so overall it should really come down to how the specific ski holds up and skis, not the prominence of the company.  
Jun 1 2009 3:19PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
correction

alex, you owned bents

why do you think i don't have them anymore? i actually didn't like hellbents that much, ZOMG, BURN THE HERETIC!!!!
Jun 1 2009 3:21PM
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Native
Posts: 191 - Karma: 18
pwned
Jun 1 2009 3:27PM
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powderhound100
Posts: 2510 - Karma: 144
on3p, Moment, Praxis etc. Support American companies, great products, chill guys. Can't go wrong.
Jun 1 2009 5:17PM
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ninjahappy
Posts: 399 - Karma: 14

and also if the 4frnts have been mounted twice already and I might mount them again,

is it worth it?

Jun 1 2009 7:27PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 20
k2 is one of the best companies out there, IMHO. 

4frnt is the worst company out there


Jun 1 2009 7:29PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Don't let him do it. Educate him on buying skis. You don't buy skis at Gart Sports/whatever. You go to the local shops. Especially in this economy, no matter what model/brand one is buying. The local shops need our help so they can stay open. REI is closer -- they sell 4FRNT and Line skis -- but still not quite there. You've gotta get to the local places like Jibij, Evo, etc.

But on-topic, it really comes down to what each company is known for and the type of ski that you want. Line and other smaller companies are known for pioneering the twin-tip movement. So they've had years more R&D than, say, Volkl, which has been known for racing/carving skis (although they are now branching out). K2 may know more about rockered and reverse camber construction through R&D of the Hellbent (and to a lesser degree, the Pontoon).


Jun 1 2009 7:48PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
I just don't get people sometimes. It really erks me when people will defame a company so easily when all that company is trying to do is make the best product possible and have people stoked on that product.

Why do people slander a company when they only have a few instances to base their opinion on? And when they do slander the company they don't even give those examples of why they don't like the company. Most if not all fairly well known companies out there try their damndest to make a killer product, and to make their customers happy. They aren't some evil oil corporation who doesn't give a fuck about you. They honestly care and are progressing the industry.

And you just say flat out they are the worst company. Back your shit up or GTFO!

/rant.
Jun 1 2009 7:51PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
for what it is worth SHastatahoe is basing his statements off of personal experience.  there is a thread about it detailing the whole thing.
Jun 1 2009 10:15PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
:[ I feel dumb. I still don't like his statement though.
Jun 1 2009 10:19PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
Where? its not in his threads.
Jun 1 2009 10:19PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
no worries, I can see what you mean.  People throw shit around on here all the time.  I think you just gotta remember it is the internet and take it with a grain of salt.  Some of it is gonna be true, others not so much.
Jun 1 2009 10:22PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
I am not seeing it there or thru google search, so I am wondering if it got deleted.


Jun 1 2009 10:24PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 20
Click for larger image


searchbar:  4frnt: worst company ever?


Jun 1 2009 10:28PM
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ninjahappy
Posts: 399 - Karma: 14
HAHAHA but seriously that really sucks  ive never seen that much damage to a ski, how long ago was that?
Jun 2 2009 12:20AM
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freeballer
Posts: 726 - Karma: 960
Smaller companies should be supported.  For instance, Armada, Liberty, 4frnt, Praxis, and Surface are examples of American companies that have flexibility to use new materials and innovative shapes that are pushing the sport.  Larger companies often steal their ideas 2 years later after they are proven.  Smaller companies usually have the BEST customer service and stand behind their product.  If larger european companies had it there way, we would all be using super skinny skis with no twin tips and would be focused on laying down the perfect carve on groomers.  But look at the reviews.  Lot's of smaller indy companies kill it in the buyer's guides.  Do some research on the type of ski your pops wants, look at the reviews, and find an indy company that has a ski that fits what he wants with a solid review.  I might get flamed for this, but I would be almost 85% of freeskiing innovation that you see in ALL ski companies stemmed from a SMALLER, North American based INDEPENDENT ski company.  the are pushing the freeride scene and should be rewarded for doing so when you decide to throw down your well earned money for a new pair of sticks.
Jun 2 2009 2:04PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
if its the fact that jibij closed, i'm not an idiot, i know about that. i was just using it as an example.
Jun 2 2009 7:47PM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
Moment Tahoe

/thread
Jun 2 2009 8:09PM
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ninjahappy
Posts: 399 - Karma: 14

Guys this is the website my dad wants me to buy from because of his connections with his friend.

Jun 3 2009 12:34AM
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ninjahappy
Posts: 399 - Karma: 14

fail for not adding a link.

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Action-Sports-Outlets_Skis-Men_W0QQ_fsubZ7QQ_sid

Jun 3 2009 12:34AM
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Elg
Posts: 2998 - Karma: 3,880
you're a patriot aren't you?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't brands like k2, rossignol and salomon come out with the first twin tips? Those are not smaller, american independent companies.

I get what you mean by bigger brands copying the smaller ones, but thats the onyly way the smaller ones survive. The bigger ones can afford being a little behind when it comes to the latest technology. the smaller brands can't.

And the bigger brands make racing skis because thats where the money is! there is hardly any money in twin tips (yet, it's actually getting better), this is being pointed out pretty much every week. When an average family decide to get into skiing, they don't buy line anthems because they have perfect butter zones, they buy carving/racing skis from the bigger more known brands because thats what they need, and they have heard about the brand because it makes more than one type of skis.
Jun 3 2009 2:21AM
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TheClap.
Posts: 21664 - Karma: 4,123
buy ON3P
Jun 3 2009 3:08AM
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freeballer
Posts: 726 - Karma: 960
I think the majority of recreational skiers would not only have more fun on twintips, rather than carving skis, but also ski better.  Many twin tips these days can carve like a mutherfucka, but are still fun to ski.  They tend to be fatter, which helps in powder or busting crud, have easier turn initiation, and still hold a turn when it is engaged.  I think the majority of skiers you see out there that are older, or a bit more gaper, would actually have more fun on midfat twins.  So I don't agree with you when you say that "that's what they need".  They don't.  I'm not suggesting they purchase a park noodle, but a midfat twin with no metal in the ski.  They don't need that.  I think most older people that ski 5-20 days per year are on the wrong ski.  Maybe that's just my opinion.
Jun 4 2009 12:12PM
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freeballer
Posts: 726 - Karma: 960
I think the first twin tip was actually an Olin Mark IV Comp in the late 70's.  The big boys just were the first to have made them successful.  Another instance of a big corporation copying a smaller brand, where the smaller brand gets no love.
Jun 4 2009 12:18PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
No, no they can't afford to be behind. Big OR small.

Look at who has made progressive designs and innovations and who hasn't and you will see who is staying afloat and who is sitting on way too much inventory right now.

Adapt or die.
Jun 4 2009 5:50PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
It's funny..cause he said stay afloat. Pontoon anyone? ahhahahahh
Jun 4 2009 7:18PM
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shabinka
Posts: 743 - Karma: 10
jibij closed.
Jun 4 2009 7:29PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
OLIN used to be quite the popular ski brand. K2 Poacher was the first MODERN twin tip.
Jun 4 2009 8:14PM
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bobs
Posts: 4801 - Karma: 868
i got a pair of olin marks IV's hanging on a wall, ballin... but its a pretty easy arguement the k2 poachers were a modern movement towards park twins .....

I wouldn't group k2 with the other "big" companies. They seem to have their act together when it comes to freesking

But personally the reason to suggest more core companies is the riders for riders buisness atmosphereh. Look at how many suspects fell apart and how many kids had a very hard time getting warranty because of "rail damage. " Then look at companies like liberty with a 3 year warranty, that they do a very fair job of backing up. I'm not saying there arent core companies that blow or that there arent big dogs who are still lookin out for the riders. Just generanlly, when you buy core you seem to be supporting a love driven, more friendly company
Jun 5 2009 12:13AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
read the thread i corrected myself already. and i was only using it as an example.
Jun 5 2009 12:46AM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 20
I have a question, why did the poacher have less of a tail than the enemy?

I skied both and had a few pairs of enemies. 




the Enemy's were sick.  You should bring back the base graphics.  they were my favorite base graphic ever. 
Jun 5 2009 2:36AM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 20
*** MORE of a tail
Jun 5 2009 2:37AM
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