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God.

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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Out of curiosity, what are your beliefs on the existence of God?

Please be precise, and try to conform to the following:
1.  Does one exist?
2.  If so, who/what is it?
3.  Said God's moral standards?
4.  Why do you believe in said deity?

Rules to the thread:

1. Bump at your own risk
2. Keep it relatively clean (PG-13 ish)
3. Try to be open-minded.
4. Piss off the moderator at your own risk
5. No, Chuck Norris is not a God.
May 2 2009 12:42AM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
That is not what I am saying.

I'm saying that God might have used that event to remind me and my family that he has our lives in his hand and he can take us if he so chooses.  Yes, sounds iffy and kinda crazy, but it served its purpose, since that is how I took it.

It is a thing of interpretation too.

Besides, death to a true Christian isn't a bad thing.  It's just going to heaven, which is not at all a bad thing.
May 3 2009 7:43PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
but what harm is gay sex doing to you? i mean, it's not as if you're being forced to watch it. i'm not gay, but i have gay friends, and even if i wouldn't do anything gay, i am perfectly content with other people doing whatever they want to do. If i can tolerate religion, i can tolerate anything.
as far as marriage goes, marriage is nothing but a ceremony to show that you want to be with someone else for the rest of your life. so if you don't care about people wanting to stay with each other, how can you care about marriage?
May 3 2009 7:45PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Well, it's a huge conflict on ethics.

I can see why a die hard athiest would hate a Christian.
Anyway, it says in the Bible that Christians WILL BE PERSECUTED and even DIE for their beliefs, since it convicts, and requires obedience to a God beyond our comprehension, which is exactly what the world in general rather not do, since it makes them wrong in some cases, bad in many, and evil in the extremes.
May 3 2009 7:45PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
I bet that I do not.

The Crusades was a power trip from the Europeans to conquest.  An excuse to keep the petty nobility under control.  I don't think it was truly ever religious.  Religious excuse, secular results.

Inquisition?  I think it goes too far, BY FAR.
May 3 2009 7:47PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
True. Really, no matter what your beliefs it seems that you are persecuted. Which has been happening since the beginning of time. It's human nature to persecute those you don't agree with.
May 3 2009 7:50PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
I did not say that Gay sex was BAD.  I said I am not comfortable with it, and the idea of it.

If someone does it, would I know?  NO.
If I don't know about it, I have nothing to say about it.

i have gay friends too, doesn't mean much.  LOVE THE SINNER, HATE THE SIN.

Marriage to me, and to most Christians, is the sanctity when a man cleaves to a woman in the idea of beginning new life together.  Marriage can happen without the ceremony.  Adam and Eve never got one.

Why is it that in primordial cultures, or even new ones we find today, that marriage is only among men and women?  Yes, the Navajos had something to say about homosexuals, but that was in the context of having BOTH sexes, not wanted one of the same.
May 3 2009 7:51PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
I'm saying that I'm Catholic and I believe that both went too far.
May 3 2009 7:51PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
I'm saying that I'm Catholic and I believe that both went too far.
May 3 2009 7:51PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Now THIS I can agree with.
May 3 2009 7:52PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
^sorry for the double post. stupid 20 second thing.
May 3 2009 7:52PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
cause, my dad went to Kings Point Merchant Marine Academy in the late 50s...  he was sent to the brig for essentially saying he didnt believe the Virgin Mary could exist....

it wasnt long ago that this was going...  thats why Atheists are out to get theirs now....  gotta make up for 2000+ years of being shit on.
May 3 2009 7:52PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Oh.  Misunderstood you.  My bad.
May 3 2009 7:53PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Like I've said before, it goes too far when you try to cram things down other's throats.

Even if they DID convert, it's not heartfelt, and thus, means absolutely nothing.

Just because I hit you, doesn't mean you HAVE to hit back.  Don't you quote a random Man Law to me, you know I'm speaking technically here.

You can always choose to ignore it, and I've seen this tactic used with the kids I work with.  A bully picks on them, they ignore it, eventually, if enough people ignore the bully and he gets no more satisfaction out of it, he quits.

But then again in some cases, it takes enough kids to either tell the kids he's a retard, or the other kid whips around and gives him hell.
May 3 2009 7:57PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Can you honestly say that if Christianity wasn't slammed down the throats of kids and people who fuck up that there would be the same amount of Christians in this world?

May 3 2009 7:59PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
I will say this: it's amazing how far much of the world, especially the US, has come on this since then. For example, stores are now open on Sundays, somehow separation of Church and state has come into a bigger role (i.e. "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, in WA the atheists' sign that was put next to a Christmas tree in the Capitol, the Ten Commandments at that courthouse or whatever, etc.). I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing.
May 3 2009 8:00PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
i realized a long time ago that whether i prayed to a box of Kraft Dinner or to an unseen being in the sky didn't make a difference.
death might become a bad thing if everyone you know went to heaven and left you here all alone.
May 3 2009 8:01PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Sure.

Well, to a point.  Define Christian

Someone who truly believes in what they think?

or

Someone who claims a belief?
May 3 2009 8:04PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Not to me.

Cause if they did, I could rely on the idea that I'd see them again someday.
May 3 2009 8:04PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
i think the allowing of stores open Sundays, something like what happened to my dad no longer happening is a good thing.....  some of the others like the Pledge of Allegiance (which according to my dad never had the "under God" portion in it when he was in school back in the 1930s and 1940s) is kinda on the iffy side.
May 3 2009 8:05PM
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backwardsrider
Posts: 543 - Karma: 70
Where did God come from, who/ what created him?
May 3 2009 8:06PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
it would be pretty funny if you believed that, and kept your head up despite your loneliness, looking forward to the day you died, and then when you did, all you did was rot. well, it would be funny to me anyways.
May 3 2009 8:07PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
The united states was originally based on a Christian ideal.

read the constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

It's also a given that the President is a Christian of some sort.  Even Obama claimed it.

Look at your bills, your coins.

"IN GOD WE TRUST."

If you don't like it, you might want to start by drafting a new basis for the government.
May 3 2009 8:08PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
so basically what your saying is YOUR religious beliefs should be imposed on other people? nice dude
May 3 2009 8:09PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
we should. its bullshit. and the reason every president is christian isnt because of the constitution, its because of fucking morons that wont vote for a dude unless he believes in Jesus
May 3 2009 8:10PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,948
Frankly my dear... I JUST DONT GIVE A FUCK!
May 3 2009 8:11PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
im with Ben on this one.

also, if you want to get into it...  there is the "Seperation of Church and State" and then all this "In God We Trust" garbage....  the founders of this country are some of the biggest fucking hypocrites in the world.  im gonna move to Australia...  hang out with some ex convicts.
May 3 2009 8:11PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
exactly. different interactions based on the person. just like every person looks different, sounds different etc.


no we cant replicate it. we cant replicate a lot of things. it doesnt mean that its not true. environment effects the way those interactions take place in the brain.
May 3 2009 8:12PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Again. No.

Read my other posting.
May 3 2009 8:13PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
I agree. The US, though it was founded as a Protestant society, was founded as a country with freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion; freedom of religion - everyone is free to worship or to not worship. It's their choice. But when a group of atheist extremists puts up a sign that says, word for word, "there is no God," next to a Christmas tree and the state has to keep it up because it would "be unconstitutional to take it down," that's where I disagree. Especially because the atheist group that put it up wasn't even from Washington, but Minnesota. I mean arguably it could be unconstitutional to keep it up because it denounces another's faith, which isn't freedom of religion. There are too many different viewpoints to look at it from.
May 3 2009 8:13PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
What do you mean by claim a belief? Because there's an awful lot of Christians who don't practice what they preach and they think that there's nothing wrong with that as long as they ask for forgiveness.

I really don't see any middle ground. Why is it that so many Christians get to drink, smoke, fuck, lust, glutton, do whatever the fuck they want they call me a heathen and tell me I'm going to burn for eternity because I didn't get dunked in water. Yes I realize the water is symbolic but still. Why aren't those people condemned for leading terrible lives (according to Christianity)?
May 3 2009 8:16PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
True to an extent. That's where all the problems come in. I mean, the US was originally founded as a society for Christians where only white, Protestant, landowning males who were over (whatever age) could be the president. But the US is and was based on freedom of religion, which includes freedom whether or not to worship.
May 3 2009 8:16PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i dont particularly want to see billboards with bible quotes when i drive to my gfs school in wisconsin either. but freedom of speech allows it.
May 3 2009 8:16PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Again.  That is an impossible question.

God, for one is a GOD.  Therefore he always was and always is.

I don't know where he came from.  YOU ask him!
May 3 2009 8:16PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
guarantee he won't talk back. probably just kill a kid you went to highschool with instead.
May 3 2009 8:17PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
so wait, you claim that our argument is not valid because we dont know what came before the big bang, but yours isnt even though you dont know what came before god? hypocrite much?
May 3 2009 8:18PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Then I say, they aren't true Christians.

You can't say one thing and do another.  Jesus was VERY against that.
May 3 2009 8:20PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
If it's true that 86% of Americans believe in God/other higher power, wouldn't it make more sense, more representational of the American people, that the president believes in God?

But you're right in saying that it would be difficult, for example, for a Muslim to run for president. He would get attacked by all the evangelical Christians, etc. I'm sure we'll reach the point where someone of another faith is elected though.
May 3 2009 8:21PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
Over the last number of years the North American church has been relatively stagnant.  We have stuff and nothing to complain about which makes it easy to believe in nothing.  Some of the biggest and fastest growing Christian churches in the world are in China, India other countries where Christians are not allowed to meet with each other and persecution is rampant.  Not just,"oooo.... you're a Christian so I don't like you" kind of crap, but everything including torture and death.  No one is slamming Christianity down these peoples throats and yet it thrives in these enviroments.
May 3 2009 8:22PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
That's my point. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and separation of Church and state all seem to come into play here. That's why I'm saying there's too many ways to interpret it.
May 3 2009 8:24PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
they all believe in a DIFFERENT god though. theres people of a bajillion different faiths.


and christians are elected to "maintain christian values". now, obviously the point is to elect a guy that agrees with you, but dont bring god into it. i mean for christ sake we have dudes in congress who dont believe in evolution. seriously? or guys that are voting AGAINST gay marriage, based on their own religious beliefs. that shouldnt happen.

were supposed to have a seperation of church and state, so really, what does it matter what religion a president is, representative is, etc. it shouldnt matter what their religion is, because religion shouldnt be a part of their decision making process.
May 3 2009 8:25PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Who's to say the churches in the wealthier countries aren't just slamming their religion down those people's throats? The church I used to go to as a kid had a missionary budget that was bigger than the entire yearly budget for the local church. And this place had 3000+ members.
May 3 2009 8:25PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
holy grammar fail. representatives ARE
May 3 2009 8:27PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Nah.

You say that there was nothing before the Big bang

God is by definition:  ETERNAL.

I say that GOD is the beginning.  thus, there was nothing before him.
May 3 2009 8:30PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
You do bring up a good point. I mean I disagree with the whole "vote to your faith" idea too, but I understand why they do so. They're not necessarily "bringing religion into it" because if they profess to a faith, chances are they profess to many of the same ideals as that faith anyway. Plus 76% of Americans are Christians, so I'm not surprised that that tends to influence the vote.
May 3 2009 8:32PM
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backwardsrider
Posts: 543 - Karma: 70
how hypocritical of you!
May 3 2009 8:32PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
Who created god? You cannot simply explain away my question by saying he is eternal, everything has a beginning.
May 3 2009 8:33PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
it does, but it shouldnt. according to seperation of church and state, it shouldnt matter what religion the prez is, because that should in no way effect the decisions he makes.
May 3 2009 8:33PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
I'm not and never will defend that slamming religion down anyone's throats.  I stand by my faith whole heartedly, but I'm not going to force it on you or anyone else.  If people want to ask, sweet.  If not, sweet.  People who force anything upon anyone have the wrong attitude and the wrong idea of what Christianity is all about.  It isn't a numbers game.  I'm not going to be cooler or better than Christian X beside me if I get more converts.  Anyone who thinks that or acts like that is simply wrong.
May 3 2009 8:34PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
God is the beginning. He is eternal. That answers your question. God is a mystery beyond any human's comprehension.
May 3 2009 8:36PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
agreed....  this is what angers me so much about the arguing of gods existence.  those that follow it pull the eternal card and its like someone dropped a bomb in the argument...
May 3 2009 8:36PM
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