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Show us the camber/rocker

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chewy15
Posts: 674 - Karma: 60
Since so many companies are now producing skis with different camber and rocker, i wish they would show us a side profile of the skis together so we can compare. i know some companies have the specs of the rocker in terms of degrees but its tough to picture. basically all im saying is on their websites companies should show a pic of the skis together.

also, give us the entire specs on your skis: running length, side cut/radius, weight, balance point

for example armada doesn't even have the radius of their skis.
Apr 9 2009 10:41AM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,744

ill agree with you.

the ski companies dont even know what they're selling. i mean if they did, they would have had sidecuts and twins 20 years ago. ski companies invest no money into the future, they are only trying to make the most money out of the current season. they produce what is demanded, and since rocker skis are just coming out, the big companies are timid. i havent even gotten to ride rocker skis, but pow and park would have to be different. until "we" get it perfected, ski companies will sell what we have perfected.

Apr 9 2009 5:08PM
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PBraunstein
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 3,804

im not to sure that any of your post made sence what so ever.

Apr 9 2009 5:41PM
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Ski.Ballet
Posts: 2860 - Karma: 200
In Engrish prease? I have no clue what you just said.
Apr 9 2009 5:45PM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
Armada made an ARG and the JJs.  If that's not progression, I don't know what is then.

Apr 9 2009 6:00PM
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Aaaron.
Posts: 11817 - Karma: 903
.
Apr 9 2009 6:17PM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
False

Most of the money ski companies spend is into R7D for new technology and new ski designs for the future.

Every ski company would have plans right now for certain ski models due to come out in the 2011 season.
Apr 9 2009 6:47PM
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Nico_G
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 15
wtf?
Apr 9 2009 6:53PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
this^ i know someone who was riding armada prototypes for 10/11 last year or some shit... these companies have brains you know
Apr 9 2009 7:21PM
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jensen
Posts: 2576 - Karma: 1,267

I will make you a 100% guarantee that ski companies spend more money in marketing than R&D.

Apr 9 2009 7:26PM
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Slinger1x1
Posts: 8853 - Karma: 66
can we get bakc to the original topic? as good as a convo this is, i do wanna see the difference in rockers, i still dont know a ton about them yet either
Apr 9 2009 7:29PM
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PBraunstein
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 3,804
i understand where your comming from and it would be nice to see some pictures of camber on skis... but keed in mind that id doesnt really matter how much it has... each ski will be different because of its length, flex, materials, weight, width..   ive skied 5 different reverse cambered skis (first year ep pros, next years ep pros, surface live life 2s, proto bluehouse mavens, and next years volkl chopsticks) the most fun ski i have and the one that i cant stop riding in pow is the chopsticks, and out of all of those skis, they apear to have the most mellow "rocker,"  but their flex is perfect and the camber(reverse) is eliptical, with no flat spot.    just my 2 cents.
Apr 9 2009 7:55PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
i can't think of a big company that hasn't produced a rockered ski let alone what we'll be seeing in the 09/10 lineups:
k2- hellbent, obsethed, pontoon
rossi- s7
line- ep, mothership
armada- jj, arg, alpha 1
solly- rocker
volkl- chopstick
and the list goes on
Apr 9 2009 8:05PM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,744

it doesnt make sense because your 12teen.  i just want  rockered skis to ride in the park,  ive been waiting for ten years. the idea has been around since the twin came out, but compaines are only now beginning to "try" to put them out. k2 made the ski for Pep, but it wasnt that good, and instead of making it sick, they just sold the china made skis to us.

im agreeing with show me a rockered ski that is sick for park, for those who cant make sense of my words. i ride t-halls, and they're truly the closest thing to a park specific ski. if the thall had slight rocker points it would be insane.

Apr 9 2009 8:25PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
Big companies are timid? Not all of them. And rockered skis are defiantly not 'just coming out.'

After Volant made the rockered and reverse sidecut Spatula, we at K2 produced the first rockered ski with sidecut, the Pontoon, over four years ago. Then we went and created the first rockered fat twin-tip, the HellBent three years ago after two previous years of testing. Next year we have ten models with rocker on them. My point being, not all big companies are timid as you say, no need to generalize.

A little history note for you as well....OLIN did make a twin-tip over 20 years ago. There is a wooden ski at Aspen too that was made in the 1930's that has a twin-tip design.
Apr 9 2009 8:33PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
I am lost now. And I am not 12teen.
Apr 9 2009 8:35PM
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AALT
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 60
http://www.armadaskis.com/product/skis/alpha_1.php

http://momentskis.com/rocker.html

and next years alpha 2... seriously, do you live in a hole?

Apr 9 2009 8:38PM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
Schmies, I'd love to hear your ideas on the original poster's ideas.
Apr 9 2009 8:39PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
can you please come to stevens pass a bunch next year?  theres a dude you need to run into.  he says hes a tester for odyssey skis.  he claims they invented rockered skis and former ski magazine employee stole their pair of rockered skis from a ski test at baker and brought them to k2.
Apr 9 2009 9:03PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
They're called the alphas, and they're amazing.
Apr 9 2009 11:42PM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
id be glad if you would prove me worng but..why the hell would you want rockerd skis in te park!?!?
Apr 10 2009 1:09AM
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masta_LE3B
Posts: 3397 - Karma: 62
alpha 1? and alpha 2? not pure rocker, cuase they have camber underfoot, but close enough
Apr 10 2009 1:38AM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33

Fail?

Apr 10 2009 1:57AM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,317
schmies was there ever a rockered maiden? obv. not for the public, but I was just wondering what kind of stuff they tried before the hellbent.
Apr 10 2009 2:01AM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
i know about the alpha 1 and 2 but whats the advantage of having rocker in the park?
Apr 10 2009 8:33AM
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PBraunstein
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 3,804
i was under the impression that the idea had a bunch of shots of pep/andy on rockered maidens with hellbent topsheets... or at least in that little pc edit that they put out 2 years ago
Apr 10 2009 10:12AM
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swanton
Posts: 455 - Karma: 11
The slight rocker is only there to prevent catching an edge off jumps. With the rocker, you can start your spins (and especially switch spins) a lot earlier without worrying about catching an edge on the lip and getting fucked up. So you're more confidant. Same thing for buttering off jumps. And remember it's only a slight rocker so it doesn't ruin the ski just cruising around on hardpack.
Apr 10 2009 11:01AM
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chazz.
Posts: 2721 - Karma: 23
Yes for a few years before the hellbent they experimented with rockering AK's to get the tech down, theres some shots floating around out there of seth and andy and pep on them, i even had a chance to buy some a few years ago from a guy who said he got them from pep but had no clue what rocker was and why i would ever want it.... and now i see the truth....
Apr 10 2009 12:20PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
As of next year everyone will have atleast 1 rockered ski.

As of this year tons of companies don't have them.


Apr 10 2009 12:38PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 511
That is pretty funny. Shane was definitely the influence on rocker over here. He came on board with all sorts of wacky ideas. I don't want to insult anybody....but I don't think I have ever heard of Odyssey Skis? They are from here?

As for the original post in this thread, in the new catalog, I placed all the rockered twins with 3/4 views, as well as side profiles on the actual ski pages, so you can see and compare between them all. We give turning radius as well as dimensions, but you can easily find weights on sites such as www.evogear.com. I will try and work the rocker view into our new website too. That is a good call.

The other question was about tech before the actual HellBent mold, yes we did rocker on a bunch of SETHs and AKs and went through tons of versions of varying flex and rocker positioning before the crew was satisfied with the end result. I actually found a pair of white topped AKs in the chop pile at work when we were still on Vashon! Brand new. I asked Dale (The absolute master ski builder) why they were getting chopped up. He grabs them and holds them real close. He hands them back and says, the rocker on this one starts down a 1/4 inch further than the other one. Total perfectionist. "So I can ski them?" "Sure, go for it." Stoked.
Apr 10 2009 12:39PM
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Walkawalka
Posts: 314 - Karma: 43
i must add, that the new volkl mantra is rockered as well.
Apr 10 2009 12:52PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
camano island.  also thinks hes suing every ski company thru a reverse patent on shaped skis.  he had a pretty good group of listeners eating up all his "stories"  in the lift line before opening one day.  unlike on here, i held off on opening my mouth.


Apr 10 2009 1:15PM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,744

why do i want rocker skis in the park? so that i can snowboard on my skis.... yup, before you were all done shitting mustard i had to snowboard because ski companies refused to make twins, then Line started out of my home town and it was on. do you understand that these companies your supporting  are selling you race skis that have two tips? if it werent for snowboarding and newschool we'd be on straight sticks.

im sick of seeing 50-50 skier grinds everyday. im sick of seeing one foot step ons. im ready to ollie on,  and land straight to press, people not understanding me, does not mean i fail. in a few years skiing will be completely different, and if you dont understand then, you failed to keep up.

stupid teenie boppers, if you dont understand something, take a second to realize you dont know everything. every little kid on here is so quick to say fail or searchbar that legit conversations dont even take place. did you know that every pro skier used to sign on everynight? yup, then little shits that think they know something cuz they can ski ruined it.  anyone who posted about my opinion with no respect, didnt take the time to understand what i was saying or the whole topic was over your head, and you took away from a good conversation, because your a no-it-all. stay in school you fools, and by the time your done maybe we'll have rockered skis for you to know all about.

furthermore, its great  knowing the names of these skis that will be produced next year, but no one knows what they're until we ride them, and if the public does get to ride them, they will break, and wear out and all your parents will be sending them back.

Apr 10 2009 5:44PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
reno rocker dropped before the alpha one. yet armada claims to have the first rockered park ski, wtf?
Apr 10 2009 6:03PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
wooooow.
Apr 10 2009 6:16PM
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Bren-Ten
Posts: 1187 - Karma: 24
great idea. componies should pick up on the idea
Apr 10 2009 6:51PM
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jensen
Posts: 2576 - Karma: 1,267
this man knows everything. all bow and drop your jaws in awe to the superior intelligence.  thanks for sharing your wisdom and enlightening us all.
Apr 10 2009 6:59PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
What are you talking about?

Make it less ranty and I might understand it.  What exactly are you trying to say or tell us about?  I get that you think snowboarding is better.  I think.
Apr 10 2009 7:09PM
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Matty_C
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 236

oh dear.

Apr 10 2009 7:29PM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,744

ok, sorry for ranting. i dont know it all, and if i did i would have invented rocker skis myself. i do know that NS used to have legit conversations. i do know that i want a rockered ski for park. i do know that i agreed with the post maker that ski companies should explain their rockered skis.

as far as my opinions are concerned, maybe a rockered park ski wouldnt work, they'd break easy, and wear out quickly. i dont want to be a snowboarder either...lol. i want to be able to do snowboard tricks. i want to ollie on to rails without jumps, land in presses and push them out, but as i said, even my THalls limit me.

Apr 10 2009 7:33PM
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yojimbo
Posts: 3631 - Karma: 27
moment bibbys are pretty parky and i think they're rockered or reverse camber o rosme shit like that. whats the damn difference anyhow.
Apr 10 2009 8:37PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
i agree with the thread creator, it is time for ski manufacturers to give us the dimensions and photos of their reverse camber/rockered skis.
Apr 10 2009 10:00PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
Well that clears things up.
Apr 10 2009 11:14PM
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jsaya_SagStraps
Posts: 1840 - Karma: 29
First of all, there is still "legit" conversations on NS, but of course people are going to call you out for stupid statements. Yes, I agree that ski companies might hold out somewhat in the development of their product, but 1. This is normally not true 2. Look at Salomon with their edge armor, that was a development, but as we all know that sort of failed and 3. There are revolutionary companies ie. Libtech with the grooved edges and Moment with the Reno Rocker (which is a rockered park ski, by the way). I agree with you on pictures of the rocker, but I feel it has a perfectly good explaination from companies.

Also, I ride rockered park skis. They work, they don't break, and I like my Reno Rockers much more than say Line Anthems. BTW, you are able to ollie onto rails with rocker, especially with T-Halls. Rockered skis might help a bit, but skis don't a good skier make. (That Yoda grammar was on purpose.)

You might want to do some more research, then people will have legitimate conversations with you, instead of calling you out.
Apr 10 2009 11:19PM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
hmm i guess that makes sense..i hadnt thought of that, thanks
Apr 11 2009 12:52AM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
im sorry if my reply to you earluer seemed without respect but really i just wanted to know...(sorry for duble post.)
Apr 11 2009 12:54AM
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