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El camera (a thread for asian allen)

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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
I have been really confused lately in my purcahse of a video camera because of people saying things like dv is dead, no its not tape is dead, oh but flash memory is good quality, oh wait sd cards suck oh but the hv series is great, oh wait its dv no its not. So I am asking a simple question. for six hundred dollars, what is the best camera I can buy? Just plain old the best camera. I dont wanna know what the best camera for 700 or 800  or 1500 is, just 600 dollars plain and simple? I look forward to your input allen
Apr 5 2009 9:32PM
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RICK_ROSS
Posts: 6983 - Karma: 3,343
apart from that confusing the fuck out of me, and having no idea a good camera under 600, dv is not dead. i can record 1080i on to it, yeah...
Apr 5 2009 10:32PM
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1080ski
Posts: 4424 - Karma: 191
i would say for 600, a used hv20/30 would probably be a good thing to get... although the tapes may be going out of use, for 600 bucks, right now, this is the best thing you could get i think. i havent really been keeping up too much with camera stuff, so i may be wrong, but its still worth checking out.
Apr 5 2009 11:01PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
Tapes aren't dead yet, they will be eventually the next 1-2 years, but not right now.
Apr 5 2009 11:27PM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
The idea of a format "dying" is completely absurd.  People still shoot skate videos using the VX1000 which was released 12 years ago, and was the FIRST MiniDV camera. 

Don't let all the techie bullshit stop you from making movies.  Get an HV30 and start shooting lots!
Apr 6 2009 12:59AM
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scratchproteen
Posts: 5173 - Karma: 286
i could sell you a panasonic pv-gs500 for 500 dollars that is in prime time condition with a lens hood and a rode video mic.
Apr 6 2009 1:07AM
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aoe
Posts: 2947 - Karma: 51
True, but then again. Broadcast companies still shoot in beta and i'm pretty sure we can all agree that beta is good and dead. Just because a format is dead doesn't mean it becomes unusable. VHS is dead, but you can still use your VCR and even buy movies. MiniDV is very nearly dead.... doesn't mean that you still cant' shoot 1080i to it and it will do a pretty good job. Dead doesn't mean unusable, ity just means that something more effecient/better took the limelight. Flash is the future (no moving parts, no dropped frames, no need for real time capture, etc).
Apr 6 2009 9:15AM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
yeah, i'm still all for vhs.
Apr 6 2009 2:36PM
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FMeissner
Posts: 490 - Karma: 85
I have an HV20 and it's sick.
Apr 6 2009 6:43PM
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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
thank god you arrived
Apr 6 2009 7:37PM
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8786 - Karma: 6,254
i thought alex was god, not allen.
Apr 6 2009 8:01PM
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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
sorry, thank me you have arrived
Apr 6 2009 8:17PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
you can? how?
Apr 6 2009 9:27PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
Are you kidding me?
Apr 6 2009 9:33PM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
he might be trying to play a trick on the wording.. but also failing at the same time
Apr 6 2009 9:36PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
please elaborate how one records video to miniDV in 1080i.
Apr 6 2009 9:36PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
Have you heard of an fx1? fx7? hv30? any HDV camera? All 1080i.
Apr 6 2009 9:40PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
since miniDV tapes can record 1080i...?
Apr 6 2009 9:44PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
Yes, they can. Tapes record interlaced...
Apr 6 2009 9:48PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
miniDV records at 720 x 480 interlaced for NTSC. I've never heard of one that can record 1080i.
Apr 6 2009 9:50PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
HDV records on miniDV....
Apr 6 2009 10:52PM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV
Apr 6 2009 11:34PM
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RICK_ROSS
Posts: 6983 - Karma: 3,343
it aint much but its all i got
Click for larger image
Apr 6 2009 11:44PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
HDV is a codec that down-converts 1080i into 480i with a different codec than SD miniDV cameras.
Apr 7 2009 2:10AM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
Yes, but it still is 1080i, stop trying to be so smart landis.
Apr 7 2009 2:24AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
uh...no it's not. The footage is 480i before it even touches your computer. Not the same thing. Yes, down-converted "HD" footage in SD format looks better than something that was shot in SD, but you're still ending up with shitty ass 480i, no way around it.
Apr 7 2009 3:01AM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
Landis, you get a 1080i picture, i dunno care how it works but you get a 1080 shot on your comp. same with 720p shots record on JVCs, they are 720 on the computer. Boo Hoo its on a tape, its still 1920x1080 resolution!
Apr 7 2009 3:09AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
haha nope.
Apr 7 2009 3:13AM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
It sure is on my computer.
Apr 7 2009 3:25AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
you sure it's not up-res'd from its down-res'd state?

Show me a miniDV tape that records in 1080i and I'll believe you.
Apr 7 2009 3:48AM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
Mini dv tapes can record 1080i/hdv... there is no down converting to 480i.
Apr 7 2009 9:52AM
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scratchproteen
Posts: 5173 - Karma: 286
theres the word from a master.
Apr 7 2009 12:31PM
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RICK_ROSS
Posts: 6983 - Karma: 3,343
E-FIGHT
but im gonna go with even on this one
Apr 8 2009 8:29PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
soooo there is a miniDV tape that records in 1080i?
Apr 8 2009 8:53PM
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RICK_ROSS
Posts: 6983 - Karma: 3,343
Click for larger image
Apr 8 2009 9:43PM
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RICK_ROSS
Posts: 6983 - Karma: 3,343
this?
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Apr 8 2009 9:45PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
As far as I know, those tapes use the same compression ratio as regular minDV tapes (25 mbps). the main difference being that the miniDV uses DCT compression (which is less reliable) whereas the HDV uses MPEG-2.

Apr 8 2009 9:55PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
HDV format records 1440 x 1080 and stretches the frame(s) in compression. not 1920 x 1080. Plus HDV uses 4:2:0 chroma sampling which looks shitty in my opinion.
Apr 8 2009 10:12PM
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FMeissner
Posts: 490 - Karma: 85
I have an HV20, it uses tapes, I use those Sony HD miniDV-based tapes, and when the files are on my computer, they are in 1920x1080 resolution.
Apr 8 2009 10:30PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
this
Apr 8 2009 10:36PM
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FMeissner
Posts: 490 - Karma: 85
Word, I believe the codec is some sort of proprietary Canon codec, which outputs .m2t files.

But if the original files are 1440x1080, would they not appear stretched when they get converted to 1920x1080?
Apr 8 2009 11:09PM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
i cannot believe this arguement is even happening.  OF COURSE you can record hd onto mini dv tapes.  I think where the confusion lies is in the compression.  While both DV and HDV are compressed to around 25MBPS, DV is 480i while HDV is 1080i.  Simply because they are the same bit rate, does not mean that they're the same resolution.
Apr 9 2009 12:49AM
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RICK_ROSS
Posts: 6983 - Karma: 3,343
i
love
you

my head was about to explode
Apr 9 2009 12:52AM
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ChronicLines
Posts: 951 - Karma: 61
Go film something and stop arguing about codecs and upressing.  This is starting to look more and more like fredmiranda.
Apr 9 2009 1:11AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
no, but it means that roughly the same amount of data is being exchanged. Just because a camera company labels it as "HD" doesn't mean it is hd. Why do you think they had to invent the term "HDV" in the first place?

and get an HV30. Best cam for the $$
Apr 9 2009 2:22PM
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Alkyy
Posts: 2839 - Karma: 149

What the fuck hahahahahaha. How is this happening.  Im siding with E heath and horner on this one, you really want i think there is a page in my xh manual about it that i can copy and prove the point

Apr 11 2009 10:03AM
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