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Ok I need algebra 1 help..

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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
No Im not fucking stupid, I just havent seen this stuff in 6 years and once you learn higher level math you tend to forget the easy shit ha..

Im trying to help this kid out, but I can't even get it so Im coming to you guys so I dont look as stupid as I really am. Heres the two questions that I can't get. The first one I think Im close but I believe Im missing a step, the second question we were never taught so Im not even sure where to start.

10. A group of stockholders are to elect a president, vice-president, secretary and a treasurer from 6 board members who qualify.  How many different ways can the officers be elected?

I think its somewhere close to 360, I just take 6 options for the first office, times 5 for the second, times 4, times 3 to get 360 but this seems to easy, where am I messing up?

11. If U equals the Universal set which is equal to {1,2,3,4,5} and if X = {3,5}, Y = {1,2,3} and Z = {2,3,4}, find the following:
1. X n Z
2. X u (Y n Z)
3. X u Y

Never taught this, and I have no idea how to start..

No Im not asking you to do my homework, since this isnt mine. Kid came to me for math help and I can do all but these two so please help me help him.
Mar 31 2009 1:12AM
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M+M
Posts: 7935 - Karma: 25

11. If U equals the Universal set which is equal to {1,2,3,4,5} and if X = {3,5}, Y = {1,2,3} and Z = {2,3,4}, find the following:
1. X n Z
2. X u (Y n Z)
3. X u Y

1 = (3)
2 = (1,3,5) (i think)
3 = (1,2,3,5)

those should be right
Mar 31 2009 1:16AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
care to explain what you did?
Mar 31 2009 1:18AM
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Bepo
Posts: 8195 - Karma: 17
Its been a while since I did probability stuff so this may or may not be right.

10. A group of stockholders are to elect a president, vice-president, secretary and a treasurer from 6 board members who qualify. How many different ways can the officers be elected?

(6*5*4*3) = 360 ways of picking 4 people.

since order matters you must multiply that by (4*3*2*1) = 24 ways of arranging those 4 people selected.
ANS: 360*24 = 8640.

11. If U equals the Universal set which is equal to {1,2,3,4,5} and if X = {3,5}, Y = {1,2,3} and Z = {2,3,4}, find the following:
1. X n Z (numbers in both x AND z)
ANS: 3
2. X u (Y n Z) (numbers in x OR y AND z)
ANS: 2,3,5
3. X u Y (numbers in x OR y)
ANS: 1,2,3,5
Mar 31 2009 1:24AM
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An10a_Eng
Posts: 2505 - Karma: 26
list of real world applications of this knowledge:



end list
Mar 31 2009 1:27AM
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el_chupacabra
Posts: 639 - Karma: 14
It depends on your interpretation of #10 (poorly written question)
if by ways of electing they mean who is elected when and in what order they are elected than youre right
if it only means total possible outcomes for the job positions after entire election process then its just 360
Mar 31 2009 1:35AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
hence why I have forgotten all of this shit after just 5 years..

thanks bepo and plus K to you guys..

Mar 31 2009 1:38AM
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Bepo
Posts: 8195 - Karma: 17
by order matters I meant there are 4 unique slots, not the order they're picked just to clarify. Since each position is different, if you have 4 people and need to put them in 4 different positions the total combinations is 4*3*2*1 = 24. Theres 360 ways of picking those 4 people, each set of 4 being different, and thus each set has 24 ways of arranging them in 4 positions.
Mar 31 2009 1:40AM
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el_chupacabra
Posts: 639 - Karma: 14
ah man youre completely right my bad
Mar 31 2009 1:43AM
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CFD
Posts: 1009 - Karma: 197
i'm sure stats has had no effect whatsoever on your life
Mar 31 2009 3:14AM
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olliesmith
Posts: 42 - Karma: 11

i would say it was 6*5*4*3*2*1divide by 4*3*2*1

thats how we have been taught in england

Mar 31 2009 2:40PM
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ajax
Posts: 2852 - Karma: 1,245

I'm pretty sure this is right. I don't know about the first one though. Like he implied, the n means AND (in both) and the u means OR (in at least one of the two).

Mar 31 2009 2:49PM
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Aaaron.
Posts: 11817 - Karma: 903
for taking over the world.
Mar 31 2009 3:05PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
I dont think thats right.. my roommate said something about dividing as well, but this way would have 30 possible outcomes and thats not enough..
Mar 31 2009 3:28PM
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hank.
Posts: 227 - Karma: 38
i don't think thats right either
Mar 31 2009 4:00PM
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AdmiralSnackbar
Posts: 85 - Karma: 22
8=xxxx=D
Mar 31 2009 4:03PM
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Scolson
Posts: 2904 - Karma: 92

n is the intersection of the two sets.  so whichever numbers are in both

 u is the union of the two sets which is all the numbers in both sets

Mar 31 2009 4:32PM
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olliesmith
Posts: 42 - Karma: 11

im pretty sure its right cos you have 6 people so 6 possible outcomes and 4 can only take place so it is 6! divide by 4!

( 3!=3*2*1)

we did one like this in class today and it was how i did it and got it right

Mar 31 2009 4:37PM
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olliesmith
Posts: 42 - Karma: 11

also i forgot to ask but what level of maths is this e.g. high school or what ?

i am at college in england (which is like the last 2 years of high school) and we are doing this

Mar 31 2009 4:41PM
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DaBeesKnees
Posts: 216 - Karma: 15
sorry man, can't help you here
Mar 31 2009 4:59PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
thread title, algebra 1 which I had in 8th grade.. which is middle school here.
Mar 31 2009 5:07PM
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CFD
Posts: 1009 - Karma: 197
exactly. i find the easiest way to remember is:

A n B: ones which are in both A n' B (like, A 'and' B abbreviated)

A u B: U as in union of the sets
Apr 1 2009 5:14AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
everyone that helped got +K from me.. and he turned in the paper today so /thread..
Apr 1 2009 1:38PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
fuck this kid came to me again, and this ones actually hard..




















can someone explain to me how to do this problem..
1. A company requires the amount of $450,000 in ten (10) years to retire a bond issue.  Assume they can earn 5 ½% interest compounded quarterly. What amount would they have to pay quarterly to be able to retire this debt in 10 Years?

Apr 27 2009 11:20PM
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gnarnia.
Posts: 1346 - Karma: 55
The Compound Interest Formula

The compound interest formula describes the total amount (including the initial amount) which you find in your bank account when all interest earned is put back (reinvested) to earn further interest, rather than being sent to you or being put aside - provided the interest rate is constant.

When you place an initial amount P into an account, it is called the principal. In a compound interest account the following happens. The money in your account grows to an amount A after n periods. (The number n here identifies the number of periods your money stays in the account without any withdrawals, or deposits, except for interest payments at the end of each period.) The amount A is given by the compound interest formula A = P(1+i)n In this formula, the interest rate per period is given by the quantity i. The formula should only be used when interest is compounded. Again, compounded means the interest is reinvested at the end of each period with no other deposits or withdrawals, Each interest payment deposited in your account then earns interest (rent from the bank) in the following periods.

Apr 27 2009 11:24PM
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Mooserz
Posts: 2945 - Karma: 32
we were talking about WWI today and I started to think about how to take over the world. Honestly, I couldnt do it. Its hard as shit
Apr 27 2009 11:32PM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
450,000=p(1+(.055/4))^(.055)(10)

Bam.

Don't have a calc on me though.
Apr 27 2009 11:36PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
Hahaha holy shit, wtf class is this kid taking?  This TVM problem.

The formula you need is as follows:

FV = C( ((1+r)^ t - 1) / r ), where FV is the future value of the debt they owe (the 450,000 they owe in 10 years), C is the cash flows they need to pay each period (the quarterly payments), r is the interest rate (the 5.5%), and t is the amount of periods you need (in this case 40, because its a quarterly payment over 10 years).

So, you have all of the information except for the quarterly cash flow, C.

450,000 = C(((1+.055)^40 - 1) / .055) ===>  C = 3294.1545

So, the cash flow needed is $3294.15 quarterly.


Apr 27 2009 11:40PM
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GreenHorn
Posts: 4896 - Karma: 1,209
hahaha i have no clue. im in algebra 2 as a freshman. youre right. once you get higher classes the easy stuff is hard
Apr 27 2009 11:41PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
are you sure jordan?

I thought it was 450,000 (1+.055) ^ 40

I went with FV = p(1+i)^n but that ended up being 3830988.95 which is way to high
Apr 27 2009 11:41PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
No, hes wrong.  The company doesn't owe $446,632.72 per quarter (what his answer works out to when you solve for p).
Apr 27 2009 11:44PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
alright this sounds much better, I see what I was doing wrong, but I have a different formula than you do.. why do you have t-1/r?
Apr 27 2009 11:47PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
Haha it sucks writing formulas online like this because it's hard to read.

It's  (((1+r)^t)-1)/r
Apr 27 2009 11:53PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
but why? I have two things telling me FV = p(1+i)^n

Apr 28 2009 12:02AM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
Because you're dealing with annuities, which is a constant cash flow for a set period of time.

The formula you're using is for a lump sum payment.

For example, if you want to find out how much you need to put in a bank account that has an interest rate of 6% compounded annually to get 50,000 in 10 years, you would use that formula like this:

50,000 = p(1.06)^10

But that's a completely different situation, and a very simple formula.

Annuities have you paying a certain constant amount each time period (in this case, quarters).  What you have already paid can gain interest as you work your way towards 10 years, and you never stop paying, and that is why the formula is way more complicated than the one you have.
Apr 28 2009 12:05AM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
Hmmm I haven't done this shit in a while, i guess I fucked up. My apologies.


What was I thinking, I know its close to something. you have p(1+ r/n)^nt

right?

Or what is that equation?
Apr 28 2009 12:11AM
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PattyFow
Posts: 540 - Karma: 51
your completely right! probability has no practical usage, they figure out your chances of winning the lottery by guessing anyways....

idiot.
Apr 28 2009 12:31AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
Wow this is ridiculous.. how the heck do you do this? I believe its somewhere along the same steps but compound daily?


2. Acme Corporation plans for Capital expansion in approximately 12 years. The amount they will need is $840,000. They plan to set up a Sinking Fund with interest earned at a rate of 5% compounded daily and payments to be made semiannually. What will their semiannual payments be?
Apr 28 2009 12:43AM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
This is the same formula, but you just need to show the effective interest rate over the 6 months.

I think the formula for finding the effective interest rate would be:
r = (1 + (.05/183))^183

I could be wrong though.

The use then same formula as before, just with the above interest rate and using 24 periods (because its semiannual payments over 12 years).
Apr 28 2009 11:40AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
why is it 183? I figured I should use 180 since usually when compounding interest books make it easy and use 360 days in a year? I mean one half of the year will have 183 and the other 182?
Apr 28 2009 11:44AM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
Sorry, I forgot the "-1" at the end of the formula

It should be:  r = (1 + (.05/183))^183 - 1


Apr 28 2009 11:44AM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
It doesn't really matter.  I just used 183 because it's a little more precise than 180.  It really doesn't matter though.
Apr 28 2009 11:45AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
Ok Ill write that down and run it by an accounting teacher and see what she thinks..
Apr 28 2009 11:59AM
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