Member of the Month

KilaTsunami
October, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Obama forces GM CEO out

profile picture
prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE52S1VV20090330

Im not going to contribute to this soon to be political flame war. I just want to say, really Obama? Its kinda getting scary
Mar 29 2009 10:32PM
0 0
profile picture
casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
This sums up my thoughts in every vaguely political/financial thread in NSG. Couple those couple undergrad courses with either liberal or conservative propaganda that they get via the dinner table or whatever website(s) prop up their cartoonishly black and white thinking, and boom! NS politicos!

I always picture the primary contributors in these threads, we all know who they are, sitting in a 24 hour news channel studio having a panel discussion in full ski gear. It helps me not throwup. I suppose it's good that there is such an interest from a community of young people, but fuck...the arrogance and lack of humility is gross. I don't think I've ever seen anything even approach a real conversation/debate in any of these threads. Just mindless support for the "home team", and filtering of any input that doesn't fit into their political schema.
Mar 30 2009 9:54PM
0 0
profile picture
J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Casual, I honestly think that my exposure over time to NSG has played a key role leading to my firmly-held belief that the form of representative democracy used today in western societies is a big, big mistake. Seriously, this website is partly to blame for my total loss of faith in the system. If some of these people can vote...
Mar 30 2009 9:58PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i think there are a few people that actually take into account others thoughts/perspectives and arent total arrogant assholes
Mar 30 2009 10:02PM
0 0
profile picture
casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Yea, I figure another off-season spent reading NSG could have me supporting an Orwellian future.
Mar 30 2009 10:07PM
0 0
profile picture
Skierguy1234
Posts: 1684 - Karma: 88
they didn't mean for the money to be used as bonuses.
and bailing out the big time auto companies helps you because if they all went bankrupt we'd go into a depression where the bank wouldnt be able to give you your own money because they wouldnt have it.
Mar 30 2009 10:17PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
..... no.

if you believe he should stay out of private business, whatever, you have the right to your opinion.


but calling him hilter, a nazi, a communist, etc. just makes you sound like a moron.
Mar 30 2009 10:20PM
0 0
profile picture
Rajna
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 90
i was hoping someone would bring this up. i agree 100% and have lived outside Detroit since i was born.

I don't understand how people can seriously be backing free market theories right now when we watched the shit crumble in our hands.
Mar 30 2009 10:30PM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
are you referring to Timoth Geithner? Oh yeah, he is a fucking genius.
Mar 30 2009 10:30PM
0 0
profile picture
General_Ripper
Posts: 3327 - Karma: 189
It just isn't working..................and we are going to need a huge crisis to dig ourselves out of this one.
Mar 30 2009 10:33PM
0 0
profile picture
Gnarwall
Posts: 1180 - Karma: 50
well hes still smarter than you will ever be...

BURN BITCH.
Mar 30 2009 10:37PM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
Uh, this shit is crumbling in our hands because of Government intervention in the free market. The subprime crisis was born under Clinton's watch. His admin pressured banks into handing out loans to the people who had no possible means to pay them back. The NY Times was expressing fear about the ramifications of this back in September of 1999 http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print . This is what happens when you have government dictate what you MUST do and who you MUST lend to. Also, look what government is doing for us currently. The Obama administration has tripled Bush's deficit, but they are claiming they cut it in half. As Judd Greg explained today on CSpan, They increased the deficit by 5 times what it was under Bush and succeeded in scaling that back to just 3 times what it was. They cut their own deficit and now they want a HUGE cookie from US citizens.
Mar 30 2009 10:38PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
ahh yes. the good old, its all clintons fault method.
Mar 30 2009 10:41PM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
You can't possibly deny his role in this mess. Doing so is incredibly delusional...Then again, I'd expect it from your ilk.....BLAME BUSH!!!! everything that has ever gone wrong in the history of the world is his fault. After all, he is mentally retarded, illiterate, and evil.
Mar 30 2009 10:46PM
0 0
profile picture
casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
delphi =

Click for larger image


Ben =

Click for larger image
Mar 30 2009 10:51PM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
^ fuck that, Ben is from like Chicago or some shit. Also, historically, the Yankees are a much better club than the Redsox. That doesn't mean I like them though. I'm a Massachusser born and bred bitch.
Mar 30 2009 10:55PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i never said clinton was innocent did i? but to act like its all the "damn liberals" is ignorant. clintons administration failed when the laws went into effect. the bush administration actually took measures to make sure they stayed in place. both fail.

he said though, to put it in perspective “I think, through the lens of this, it looks like that was true,” Clinton said. “But let's go back to where we were at the time. At the time, they had lots of money, were making lots of money, and I thought too much of the money was being given out in value to the shareholders and compensation to the executives. And, at the time, we had a balanced budget and a surplus and a rapidly growing economy in other areas.”
Mar 30 2009 10:59PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
at last we agree on something. fuck the yankees. however fuck chicago baseball. the cubs blow, have for a 100 years, and the sox had one lucky fluke.
Mar 30 2009 10:59PM
0 0
profile picture
casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Click for larger image
Mar 30 2009 11:02PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
dude you care waaaaaay too much.

im bored. this is keeping me entertained.
Mar 30 2009 11:04PM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
haha yeah the cubs suck a big one. I always wondered why their curse never to the publicity ours did? I think the redsox drought was what, 86 years or some shit like that. The cubbies have them destroyed in that department. Although, I fucking loved the movie Rookie of the Year.
Mar 30 2009 11:07PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
its pretty famous in chicago, we have the goat thing, and the black cat thing. and now the fucking bartman thing. i feel sorry for that dude
Mar 30 2009 11:08PM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
are you a bears fan? Cuz the bears used to own so hard. They DESTROYED the patriots in the 86 superbowl i think it was. They had a tremendous defense and a sick offense. I love Jim Brown and Walter Payton...so sick

Mar 30 2009 11:11PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i fucking love the bears. its the one chicago team i REALLY care about. i like the bulls, but ive given up hope on them.

we still have a great D though, we just have struggled with the O line, and QB. for some reason everyone thought grossman was the solution to all the bears problems, yet hes incredibly inconsistent. if we had just let orton (dude who qb'd for most of this season) play the whole time hed be good right now. no brady or manning, but good enough.
Mar 30 2009 11:13PM
0 0
profile picture
casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
No offense ben, but I think it's pretty clear who's doing the caring.

You did after all respond to my original post, that wasn't about you, defensively. Not to mention, you never let a political thread pass you by.
Mar 30 2009 11:14PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
true. i enjoy them. and yeah i did respond. and now im responding again. i have an opinion, i like voicing it. so shoot me.


now stop so i can keep taking this thread off topic and towards how much chicago sports teams suck haha.
Mar 30 2009 11:16PM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
hahah I'm surprising myself here but, I'm gonna stick up for Ben. Usually we butt heads in every thread we both post in, but I've found a common vein with him. The bears are sick..I side with him here
Mar 30 2009 11:16PM
0 0
profile picture
ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
I haven't had time to read the other posts, so I am just posting against this one.


First....

BUSH SUCKED. Yes, you want me to say that. I only liked him on certain issues, but he was not a conservative. He made the govenment much bigger. Happy? (I am actually serious here).

I am not sure Bush would have supported the bailouts, but there was a good chance he prob could have. (He should have been conservative enough not to support them, but I feel he lacked that quality).

I think you are trying to imply that since you think Bush might have done this, that conservatives should be okay with it. I wouldn't be. I dont give a shit if a president is democrat or republican, I only look at what their principles are. If obama were to decrease taxes tomorrow on corporations and have a break on capital gains taxes to get us out of this mess, he would be my favorite guy.



Lack of oversight and trust in CEOs?

Come on. It's no secret why these car companies are struggling. It's almost impossible to compete with companies overseas since its so much cheaper over there. It's the rediculous wages and pension plans from Unions that are killing american car companies. Ill have to find the exact statistic, but around 4 g's of each car go to employees pension plan and health care after they are working. It's rediculous.

It's the government getting involved with housing and banking that also got us in this mess. The corporations help america. They give people jobs. Their "greedy" CEO's
help pay for most everything in this country, but yet people still hate them. If America were a business, these people would be wined and dined and thanked for their contributions. No instead, they are told they will be taxed 90% on bonuses THAT WERE CONTRACTS BEFORE THE STIMULUS PLAN (which the stimulus bill had an exception for and all the politicians knew about before they made a big deal about it). The whole AIG thing was just a distraction.

What's even more rediculous is this CEO has been with the company for 31 years. Welcome to Government Motors.
Mar 31 2009 12:03AM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
why the fuck did you bring it back on track!?!?!

but. first of all, are you acting like not treating our workers like asian slaves is bad? american car companies failed because they built shit quality cars, and made poor decisions elsewhere, it had very little to do with pensions etc. yes the ceo has been there for 31 years. and clearly hes done a fantastic job...


and back to the bonuses. AGAIN. WE bailed them out. therefore we now have a say in their operations. should we have done something about the bonuses earlier? yeah probably. but better late than never.
Mar 31 2009 12:09AM
0 0
profile picture
Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
haha the thread hijacking is over
Mar 31 2009 12:11AM
0 0
profile picture
RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I'll let slide the Bush thing, fair point. Its speculation anyways, and I dislike doing that.

I picture GM like a patient. They're constantly getting ill, always kinda on the down, but the drugs the big doctors give them make them function normally, most of the time. Now though, they're getting really sick, and the drugs arent working. We've got them hooked up to a IV for the past few months, and shits not improving. Are we to keep them bedridden for the rest of their lives, constantly getting a slow drip of support every time they need it? Or should we get a surgeon and cut away whatever is wrong?

GM and Ford are the American auto industry. But if we let them stand alone without government incentives and tariffs, they would fail miserably to foreign companies (which, lets face it, Toyota and Honda are getting pretty well naturalized here as it is). I say we have two choices. Either give them the cash and make SURE that they get their act together, or fully embrace a free market and let them collapse. I'd almost be in favor of the second option, and before you start to scream "BUT WHERE WILL THE JOBS GO!?!?", yes, there would be turmoil, but 'foreign' auto makers would be quick to expand and reel the apt new workforce in.

The way things are right now, these companies arent competitive and never will be. They'll be kept on taxpayer funded life support unless they are restructured from the ground up, or go belly up.
Mar 31 2009 2:43AM
0 0
profile picture
Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
ford isnt getting bailed out though...

chrysler and gm are......  not ford....  ford FTW!
Mar 31 2009 3:22AM
0 0
profile picture
RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
They're still fucked.
Mar 31 2009 3:25AM
0 0
profile picture
ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
agree 100%
Mar 31 2009 3:44AM
0 0
profile picture
RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I went back and double checked my arguments and logic. This really could be the first time we agree on anything.
Mar 31 2009 4:27AM
0 0
profile picture
Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
His economic adviser is someone he might call once or twice a year if he feels like it? Maybe in 1997. This country is experiencing the worst economic crisis in 80 years and you think that he might only call on these people once or twice a year? Come on now. You're smarter than that. I'll also note that while Buffet may not have an obligation to the American public, his investments are diversified enough to give him a vested interest in the success of the overall economy. So there really is no need to disregard the "self interest" argument. It still applies here.

I won't argue that someone doesn't need total and comprehensive knowledge to form an opinion. Regardless of one's opinion (probably stolen off of a website or news channel), no one is so enlightened as to be able to call these recovery steps wrong. We won't know if they were the wrong decisions for several years. Even then there will still be disagreement. Hell, we can't even agree on what got us out of the depression of the 30's. (look at all of the disagreement in this thread)

As to the surgeons - we could talk about all of the mistakes that have been made in the operating room. We could also compare those numbers to the number of people that have been saved/helped by medical professionals. Considering this, who do you want to do your surgery? An MD who has studied medicine and performed many surgeries, or someone who took a biology course in undergrad? If the MD is just as prone to mess up as I am, let me do your surgery.
Mar 31 2009 10:04AM
0 0
profile picture
Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Unions manage to force car companies to pay them ridiculous wages for the level of work they do.  That quite simply has been a big reason those companies have been run into the ground.  You can't deny that.
Mar 31 2009 10:15AM
0 0
profile picture
wh@t
Posts: 6204 - Karma: 51
yeah what the hell are you guys talking about? this isnt a question of economic policy, this is Obama taking some incentive and getting rid of the management that just keeps perpetuating this mess. i see no problem there.
Mar 31 2009 10:29AM
0 0
profile picture
Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
You guys both missed the point of my analogy.

When you place blind faith in these people, you get a stimulus package that invests in energy efficient golf carts, multimillion dollar icebreaker bluepoints, and jobs that only benefit either highly specialized or totally unskilled labor. Now are you going to tell me that this kind of frivolous garbage is fine because these "enlightened experts" are fine with it? Bullshit! It's the obligation of every American citizen to keep this kind of crap in check.

Bottom line, you need to create and environment where business can succeed and consumer confidence can grow...they are not doing that. And if you know anything about banking in the last 10 years, the mortgage fallout could have been prevented if the government had stepped in to regulate the bullshit loans and crooked investments that were being pulled off. You can't say that nobody saw it coming. There were a number of bankers that tried to warn Washington...but these "enlightened experts" ignored them.

And for the record, I doubled majored in Business and Economics, and also have some pretty broad work experience; A far cry from either a dinner table activist or someone that has an opinion that was "probably stolen off of a website or news channel". Go fuck yourself.
Mar 31 2009 10:34AM
0 0
profile picture
Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
Woah dude, I was referring to to 95% of the population...I never said you specifically stole anything off of a website. It was a broad generalization of the American public. But at this point I'm going to quit because you're twisting what I've said and inserting false accusations.

And for the record, I've got a Master's degree in Accounting with a minor in Managerial Economics. Also a far cry from a "dinner table activist" (which I never inferred YOU were) that composes a good chuck of the population.

At any rate, I'll be over here fucking myself while you chill out.
Mar 31 2009 10:53AM
0 0
profile picture
*Fujative*
Posts: 8554 - Karma: 183
Newschoolers + Polatics = Doesn't Mix
End of Story (This is only about 95% true)
Mar 31 2009 11:23AM
0 0
profile picture
Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
While you weren't explicit with the comments that irritated me, it appeared as an implicit insult. I apologize.

I understand what you are saying regarding future hindsight related to what is happening now, but it seems to me that things like the stimulus package and these bailouts are full of wrong decisions (whatever the intention may be). It also seems to me to be a wrong decision to ignore things like the payroll tax and enforcing sound regulation. Unless you think those economic advisories thought that giving out AIG bonus money and funding pet projects was an integral step to heal the market. These are not abstract theoretical principles that they're missing, this is basic stuff that most people who have ever run a business understand. I have little faith that Washington doing anything to prevent the exact faults that got us here in the first place. If you recall, they are part of the reason we are here.
Mar 31 2009 12:17PM
0 0
profile picture
Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
how many people are employed between gm and chrysler? i just dont think that other companies could possibly expand THAT much. while toyota, honda, etc arent in the disaster that GM and Chrysler are, they havent been doing well lately. Can they afford to accommodate that many new people?
Mar 31 2009 2:11PM
0 0
profile picture
derbski
Posts: 3173 - Karma: 62
the company wanted a bailout, and got one, becoming overnight an investment of the government. If they aren't using their own money, they can't expect to be able to do whatever the fuck they want with their company. It is the same sense of entitlment that makes them think that they can give rediculous bonuses with bailout money
Mar 31 2009 2:17PM
0 0
profile picture
Beans13
Posts: 441 - Karma: 12
NO
Mar 31 2009 2:22PM
0 0
profile picture
Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727

It's cool man.  No blood, no foul.

Unfortunately a lot of the garbage that we're getting from these stimulus packages aren't brought to us by the "enlightened" people I've been referring to, but rather the wonderful politicians, with very partisan agendas, that we have elected to "represent" us.  Unfortunately there really is no way to get these things thru congress without having all of this stuff slipped in.  It pisses me off like no other, but is an unavoidable consequence of our government.  The AIG bonus thing is definitely BS too imho, but I can understand the concern for the potential legal ramifications had they not been paid.  And as shitty as I may find it, it really is a drop in the bucket in comparison to the big scheme of things.

You will never hear me argue anything contrary to responsible regulation.  However, it takes something like this to happen before any sort of regulation can ever be passed on new financial products.  I find this kind of ironic because on one hand we tout our ideological "free market" society as "the right way", but then we turn around and question how this happens.  It's a double edged sword.  If we regulate before we allow these innovations in the market, everyone's feathers get ruffled because the government is intruding on the free market.  If we don't regulate, this kind of stuff happens.  So what do we do?  This isn't the first time this has happened (think Enron - exact same thing except they hid the problem much longer with the use of off balance sheet financing arrangements) and I'd be willing to bet money that it isn't the last time it will happen either.  It's one hell of a catch 22.

ps - as to taxes, refer to publication 15 & 919 for some of the recent changes in withholding amounts for 2009.  Not the end all/cure all solution, but it's a step in the right direction.  (On those lines, I would suggest everyone consult their accountant as to any possible changes to their W2 for 2009 - a lot of new tax law and revisions.)

Mar 31 2009 2:34PM
0 0
profile picture
LineAddiction9
Posts: 616 - Karma: 12
FUCK FUCK FUCK WORTHLESS OBAMA     All you STUPID Americans voted for his Bitch ass!!!
Mar 31 2009 3:39PM
0 0
profile picture
Phill.
Posts: 1149 - Karma: 37
actually I did not vote for him... even if could have voted it would NOT have been for him or mccain....
Apr 3 2009 3:47PM
0 0
profile picture
WSMFP
Posts: 824 - Karma: 123
your really grindin' my gears dude
Apr 3 2009 8:23PM
0 0
profile picture
jsaya_SagStraps
Posts: 1840 - Karma: 29
Yeah let's not support companies that need our help. After all, them failing won't bring down the economy even further, preventing any new businesses from starting because theres no money, putting us permenantly in a ditch. Not.
Apr 3 2009 8:56PM
0 0
profile picture
steezc-ross
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,156
PLEASE DONT READ THIS. IM SERIOUS. YOU WILL BE KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE.TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT TO AT LEAST FIVE QUIZZESYOU WILL DIE IN 2 DAYS. NOW UV STARED READING THIS DONT STOP THIS IS SO SCARY.xSEND THIS TO FIVE QUIZZES IN 143 MINUTES WHEN UR DONE PRESS F6 AND UR CRUSHES NAME WILL APPEAR IN BIG LETTERS ON THE SCREEN. THIS IS SO SCARY CUZ IT ACTUALLY WORKS
Hi, I am Teddy. Once you read this you cannot get out. Finish reading this until it is done! As I said, I am Teddy. I am 7 years old and have no eyes and blood all over my face. I am dead. If you don't post this in 12 threads, I will come to ur house at midnight and hide under ur bed. When ur asleep I'll kill you. Don't believe me? Case 1: Patty Buckles got this email. She doesn't believe in chain letters. Well, foolish Patty. She was sleeping when her TV started flickering on and off. Now she's not with us anymore. Haha Patty, haha. You don't wanna be like Patty, do you? Case 2: George M Simon hates chain mail, but he didn't wanna die that night. He put it in 4 threads. Not good enough George. Now George is in a coma & we don't know if he'll ever wake up. Haha George haha! Now, you don't wanna be like George do you? Case 3: Valarie Tyler got this letter. Another chain letter she thought. She only put this in 7 threads. Well, that night when she was having a shower she saw Bloody Mary
Apr 4 2009 12:56AM
0 0
All times are Eastern (-5)