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November, 2024

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Are We Just A VR Game?

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notomatoplz
Posts: 1377 - Karma: 29

Yea i know this is an old vid and it may seem like a pretty farfetched idea depending on how you think of it but i just came across it and thought i would share with you guys and maybe i wont be so bored. PS i did a little searchbarring and couldnt find anything similar.

Mar 4 2009 7:10PM
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captainEMERICA
Posts: 1386 - Karma: 122
I loled
Mar 4 2009 7:16PM
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notomatoplz
Posts: 1377 - Karma: 29
i know eh
Mar 4 2009 7:24PM
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theblacktaco
Posts: 1462 - Karma: 82
so if  i take this knife .... will it still kill me
jk 

but how do people think of this stuff
Mar 4 2009 7:30PM
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EvanMeyer
Posts: 3822 - Karma: 3,459
interesting.....
Mar 4 2009 7:31PM
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notomatoplz
Posts: 1377 - Karma: 29
see above posts...
Mar 4 2009 7:31PM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9092 - Karma: 3,022
i always think about this
Mar 4 2009 7:40PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
it makes no difference really.
Mar 4 2009 7:46PM
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skithe49th
Posts: 2487 - Karma: 14
mind bottling
Mar 4 2009 7:48PM
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mmmmm...Pie
Posts: 673 - Karma: 15
Bingo. Since we have no way of determining that we are in some type of simulation, it can have no possible effect on us. I wrote a paper on alternative reality theories a while back. Theres some interesting stuff out there, but most of it boils down to the same thing.

Lucid dreaming as an alternate reality is far more interesting and possible, in my opinion.
Mar 4 2009 8:05PM
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notomatoplz
Posts: 1377 - Karma: 29
like when all your thoughts get all trapped up? like in a bottle?
Mar 4 2009 10:51PM
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JEWbacca
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 30
where the fuck do u find all of these random video;s
Mar 4 2009 11:35PM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
20 percent chance? hahahahahhaa
Mar 4 2009 11:41PM
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proZach
Posts: 7163 - Karma: 919
hahahaha i was going to say the same thing.

its mind boggling you dick
Mar 5 2009 12:01AM
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GhostfaceKillah
Posts: 3398 - Karma: 10
Descartes already thought of this a couple hundred years ago with his evil genius theory...

keith olbermann is a douche, but that's beside the point
Mar 5 2009 12:05AM
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derbski
Posts: 3173 - Karma: 62
naw, cause think about all of the shit that exists that would be entirely fucking useless to somebody running a simulation, like a ratio of 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to one of useless shit to things that matter. And, if they created machines this intellegent, it would most likely go the way of the matrix, machines taking over humans(or whatever creature living in his moms basement playing with us) before humans taking over machines. Plus, I have a feeling that if we were a simulation, a lot more crazy shit would happen. Also, it would take a lot less AI to figure out you are artificial than the ammount to have the complexity of a human. we are talking a mole of terabytes here. and last but not least, we will have long killed eachother by the time we have this kind of technology. actually, that wasn't the last point, another one: why would they wanna watch us watch porn, insead of just watching porn, they are obviously at their computer. In conclusion, Why would Chewbacca, a wookie, wanna live with a bunch of ewoks? it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make any sense. If chewbacca doesn't make sense, you must aquit.
Mar 5 2009 11:50AM
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Bepo
Posts: 8195 - Karma: 17
you are stupid
Mar 5 2009 12:51PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
+k
Mar 5 2009 12:51PM
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TechnoPotamus
Posts: 11626 - Karma: 3,522
agreed.

we talked about this a lot in philosophy, def an interesting idea.
Mar 5 2009 1:10PM
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drumbumocdp
Posts: 3229 - Karma: 1,098
im going to ponder this tonight when im baked
Mar 5 2009 1:19PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
its possible the entire human race exists only as an elaborate plan to bring a spare part to a tralfamadorian stuck on titan.
Mar 5 2009 2:05PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
that wouldn't just be elaborate, it would also be entirely unnecessary. everyone knows you only need about 20 humans in a cardboard box to move any part of a tralfamadorian. 
Mar 5 2009 2:12PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
fuck i lost
Mar 5 2009 2:21PM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2805 - Karma: 470
In the words of the late great George Carlin I think the human race exists for the sole pupose of making plastic.  The earth couldnt do it herself so she created humans to do it for her.  Now we will die off and it will just be the Earth + Palstic.
Mar 5 2009 2:39PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
I would think that the fact that you have the conscious ability to think you are a simulation would prove that you are not. Computers are only capable of deduction, not emotion or rationality (human traits). In addition, if you could engineer something that complex...why would you leave the door open for your 'program' to be aware of itself? It seems to me that you would want to avoid that.
Mar 5 2009 3:30PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
ive had this thought before

Descarte almost covers it, but what if someone is doing the thinking for you

Mar 5 2009 3:40PM
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2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
But the question is, do you think for yourself? In reality, all of your decisions are based on the way you've been nurtured and the people around you. You're not really leaving the door open for your program either because you can't technically prove it.
Mar 5 2009 3:52PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
No, we're simply moving from the age of Pisces, into the age of Aquarius.
Mar 5 2009 3:56PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Think about it this way...there are two ways a human could be simulated. First is though an AI that is programed with the necessary deduction skills to complete the wide range of problems we face. The second method of human simulation would via a 'player' that would directly control your thoughts and actions. With that in mind, we can surmise the following:

An AI, like any computer or program, is designed by a complex set of switches. The switches have only two settings, yes/no or on/off functions. These functions operate off of certain parameters and enable the AI to deduce and calculate. If it is possible to engineer an AI so complex (even beyond the simple on/off switch) that we can simulate the entire world, it would also be possible to engineer limitations to that AI. It doesn't take much thinking to realize that it would be counterproductive to enable the AI to realize it is, in fact, an AI.

A 'player' controlling you would never have any need whatsoever to give you the command to think that you are a simulation. There is absolutely no point. Therefore, it could be possible that the 'player' is in fact in a suspended state and the player truly thinks it is you, and it (the player) has absolutely no independent life outside of the simulation. That assumption is, of course, asinine because there is also no point in that exercise. The suspended 'player' would require sustenance to stay alive long enough to complete the simulation (obviously the simulation would last as long as your life-span). Furthermore, the pool of 'players' would have to expand exponentially to accommodate the increasing human population on earth. Where do the bodies come from? And why would you create a player controlled simulation where the population fluctuates? There are places in Earth's history where the population of homo sapiens has both grown and shrunk.
Mar 5 2009 4:18PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
here's your first problem. you're still thinking within the box. there are two ways that WE could simulate a human, two ways that WE know of. if we're the simulation, it would stand to reason that we don't know everything.
as of yet, if we are a simulation, the rules are:
1. we don't know everything
2. we don't know anything

seems like a pretty safe simulation to run, from my POV.
Mar 5 2009 4:24PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Assuming that we don't completely ignore everything we know about science and how our world is structured, you would be wrong. Unless we jump into a wild assumption that this world has absolutely no resemblance or traits similar to the world of our controllers. I find that idea extremely hard to believe, and it would also defeat the purpose of any kind of 'simulation'. There are only two ways it would work, either by direct control or artificial control. Period.

Again, why would you grant a simulation knowledge of itself? If your answer would be something along the lines of, "they want to give us total independent thought," than the aforementioned arguments of simulating something based on principles of the outside world would come into play, thus defusing the idea that our world has absolutely nothing in common with our controllers. There are a far greater number of good reasons why you would not allow your AI to do that.

This is why the circular logic often found in this philosophical argument doesn't work, because it is at odds with anything practical or logical.
Mar 5 2009 4:43PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
If you went to BestBuy to get the new expansion pack for "Earth and the Known Universe"... Would you pick your player to be a starving kid in Somalia that will die at age 3? Or would you pick a child born in Sweden that has the potential to live a long and fruitful life?
Mar 5 2009 4:47PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
Do we know of ourselves? I mean, I think I'm here, but I don't know that I am. I don't know where here is, I don't know how I'm here, and I don't know why. So If i don't know any of those things, can I really say that I know I exist? I cannot see myself in any context other than that I am given, and as of yet I have not been given another point of view. It would be religious to assume that I know anything, without being given confirmation from an authority.
Mar 5 2009 4:49PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
You've never played a game where you control more than one character at once? Never played SimCity? there are games in which you simply cannot pay attention to every factor at once, and are therefore faced with consequences. Perhaps the consequence of paying too much attention to developing some nations is that others fail.
Mar 5 2009 4:52PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Do either of you really find any of that more plausible than the explanation of God?

And if you have no control (or even poses the ability to think that way), then why is it possible to dwell upon it or even have a conversation about it?
Mar 5 2009 5:00PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
its basically the same as the explanation of god, except god is a 14 year old nerd in his basement.
Mar 5 2009 5:06PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
nothing is more plausible than anything else if we don't know anything to begin with. i have not come to the conclusion that i am a simulation, nor have i come to the conclusion that i live under a God. i have, however, come to the conclusion that i don't know shit, instead of assuming i know something. to assume that i knew something would prevent me from ever trying to learn something.

i have no idea what your second paragraph is about, because i never said i had no control, nor that i do have control. again, it would be simply religious of me to assume either.
Mar 5 2009 5:08PM
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yuck
Posts: 8384 - Karma: 2,090
im gonna hack this game and change myself fo a Lvl. 68 SteezyShredderMage
Mar 5 2009 5:12PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Then we are at an impasse because either the game will end now, or there is no game because there is no point to this other than an accident. We, on earth, can't fully understand how our own brain works, or why gravity happens, but we can figure out the ultimate question...that we are a simulation? It doesn't add up that such a simple oversight could occur in such a complex design.

Why not just believe in magic? Common beliefs about the world as we 'knew' it in the Dark Ages are based on similar logic as this notion that we are a simulation (i.e. no basis at all).
Mar 5 2009 5:15PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
wait what? we figured it out? i thought all we did was wonder about it. i didn't realize we'd already found the answer.
Mar 5 2009 5:18PM
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notomatoplz
Posts: 1377 - Karma: 29
wow, this thread has grown.
Mar 5 2009 5:31PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
I don't mean to be a dick, but you can't satisfactorily argue a point on ambiguity. Wouldn't the point of wondering and discussing any subject have the purpose of finding new insight or accomplishing something? Understandingly saying "i don't know shit" makes this a pointless exercise.

I could make the argument that "I may be made of cake, I may not be made of cake, I don't know." It fills no purpose except to cover all my bases so someone is not outraged or offended that I may or may not think I am made out of cake.

...just something to think about if you ever have to write a term paper.
Mar 5 2009 5:36PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
I'm inclined to agree with this.
Mar 5 2009 5:38PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
i personally could care less whether i outrage or offend anyone, on the internet or in person. if somebody wants to argue with me about the fact that i don't know where i came from or what my purpose is, they can shove it up their ass, because i don't know. i am not trying to argue with you, i'm simply saying that you cannot presume to know anything. and as i said earlier in the thread, it really doesn't make a difference to our existence or lack thereof.
but to say that us being a simulation is an illogical idea is ludicrous. sure, it may not be logical for us to recreate ourselves in a simulation, but we cannot say that it would not be logical for anything else. that's assuming too much. all we can do is learn and continue moving through life. we're not all going to just stop one day and say "fuck it, we might be a simulation, and an illogical one at that," and we're not all going to just stop one day and say "fuck it, we might never know the answer."
what i'm saying is, we cannot rule out the possibilty simply based on our own impressions of what is "logical" or "important." i've said it before, and i'll say it again: WE DON"T KNOW SHIT. that should be enough to convince us that we should continue.  
Mar 5 2009 5:51PM
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Skibumsmith
Posts: 5432 - Karma: 11,823
I'm cool with it as long as I still get to ski.
Mar 5 2009 8:01PM
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Leo.
Posts: 508 - Karma: 17
haha this is an interesting threadd.  I like to look at societies like a living thing.  And we're the cells that run it and it experiences time differently cause it progresses slower than us were just a part of it.  I feel like we just are a part of something bigger but have no awareness of it.  Haha regardless a vr game is a gooood analogy.
Mar 5 2009 9:34PM
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