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Sean Penn's Comment at the Oscars

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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
I think this it was a good summarization of the current situation and takes a lot of balls to say in a situation like that.  I'm glad to have met the man on multiple occasions.

Excerpt from his acceptance speach: “For those who saw the signs of hatred as our cars drove in tonight, I think that it is a good time for those who voted for the ban against gay marriage to sit and reflect and anticipate their great shame and the shame in their grandchildren’s eyes if they continue that way of support. We’ve got to have equal rights for everyone.”

How can you say that a group of people shouldn't have the same rights as you just because they are different? It's just as bad as not letting blacks eat at the same restaurants as whites and it's only a problem because of an outdated book (the bible).
Feb 24 2009 2:01AM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
nothing wrong with gay civil marriage. gay "church" marriage is ridiculous
Feb 24 2009 2:07AM
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ORski21
Posts: 423 - Karma: 12
except that book is the most popular book of all time. But I agree, gay couples should at least get some of the advantages maried couples get, if not all of them. I'm pretty sure they cant visit each other if they're dying in the hospital, which isn't too cool
Feb 24 2009 2:07AM
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gmack24
Posts: 4636 - Karma: 31
yea its whatever....I mean if it would get gays to shut up about it and just live their lives, why not right? No offense to gays, but PDA from dudes is gross and shouldnt be allowed lol, these 2 at my previous college would stand in the food line goin at it.
Feb 24 2009 2:11AM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
do you realize what you've just done?
Feb 24 2009 2:24AM
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ski_ENDUB
Posts: 2535 - Karma: 86
quick toss some salt over your right shoulder.
Feb 24 2009 2:31AM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55

Give me a good reason why I can't "church" marry, and we'll drop it.

Feb 24 2009 2:38AM
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ORski21
Posts: 423 - Karma: 12
because you would have to start your own church, im pretty sure no chuch allows gay marriage
Feb 24 2009 2:40AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
Uhhh, yeah. The whole point was to share this powerful statement with people and get their opinions on it. I stated mine. What's yours?
Feb 24 2009 2:40AM
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*rkp*
Posts: 8198 - Karma: 257
I think it's great to see some recognition for a completely worthy cause. The fact that this issue was highlighted by a best-actor oscar winner on one of the most viewed nights in television can't hurt either. Maybe it won't change the minds of the morally opposed, but the applause at the end of Penn's speech certainly demonstrated Hollywood's stand on the issue.

P.S. If anyone hasn't seen MILK yet, do so. One of the best films I've seen in a long time.
Feb 24 2009 2:46AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084

i dont wanna start all over, but having equal rights for obviously equal people shouldnt be something you have to argue about.

the bible is a collection made by people we dont know who they were. others chose which parts to take and which not. and its 2000 years old. die-hard christs are the only group of people that i just cant take.

Feb 24 2009 6:33AM
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A.M43
Posts: 32 - Karma: 10
undefined
Feb 24 2009 8:33AM
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A.M43
Posts: 32 - Karma: 10
undefined
Feb 24 2009 8:36AM
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Aaaron.
Posts: 11817 - Karma: 903
it's not only the bible.   if you give two gay males rights, then can you hold back those rights from maybe, 3 gay males?  or what about 3 males and 4 women?  think your job's spousal health  program.  i don't think many companies would like to pay for 3 or 4 people.
 
Feb 24 2009 8:37AM
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GnarBurger
Posts: 3215 - Karma: 43
im sorry but im completley against churhc gay marrige. like you cant make a fucking kid and thats what the church pretty much need to be married for. (aka the whole sex after marrige thing) but if you wanna get some civil thing then go for it
Feb 24 2009 9:47AM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
dude marriage is men and women, im fine with them having the same rights but it is NOT the same thing and therefore should not have the same name. this is where the disagreement lies you posting a movie stars comment won't change shit.
Feb 24 2009 9:53AM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
next thing you know, women will be marrying horses! 3 ways with robots!


seriously though, that's a really flawed argument.
Feb 24 2009 12:01PM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,323
straight marriage is just civil marriage, its not a church ceremony in the first place unless you want a church guy to do it for you.
Feb 24 2009 12:03PM
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lloyd_christmas
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 16
how? because it opens the flood gates for not only all kinds of violence and protests (obvious) but more kinds of fraud and crime than we know what to deal with.  it's so much more of a economic thing than people realize.

i love sean penn but he's an idiot if he thinks it's even close to that simple.  this isn't always about "rights".  and while i have mostly conservative beliefs i don't have an awful problem with making some kind of law for gay people to be able to have those "rights" (though "marriage" just simply doesn't apply....make it a new ceremony...i don't care).  but we've got to do it right...and it's just not that easy.

...there's bigger fish to fry right now though, this might as well be a non-issue.  /.02
Feb 24 2009 12:15PM
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lloyd_christmas
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 16
^oh, and to say that it's like segregation or only a problem because of the bible is about as big a cop-out as there can be.

*i like you mango, but with this issue it's not even close.  there's so much more than that.
Feb 24 2009 12:19PM
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Aaaron.
Posts: 11817 - Karma: 903
exactly.

Feb 24 2009 12:19PM
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Scolson
Posts: 2904 - Karma: 92
Polygamy is illegal.
Feb 24 2009 12:31PM
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GingerKid08
Posts: 1320 - Karma: 13
Im completely for the right of gay and lesbian couples to get married, but the topic does get kind of shady with regards to what comes next. If we allow gay couples to get married, than whats stopping us from allowing a man to marry 4 women at once. Whats to stop a man from marrying an animal? If it becomes legal its going to open up other doors and avenues for some freaky people to decide they want equal marraige rights too.
Feb 24 2009 12:34PM
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GingerKid08
Posts: 1320 - Karma: 13
^disregard that past, i need to learn to read.
Feb 24 2009 12:37PM
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Aaaron.
Posts: 11817 - Karma: 903
gay marriage is illegal.

Feb 24 2009 12:44PM
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TheMafia
Posts: 316 - Karma: -85
marriage in definition is between and man and women. All they should do is i call it something else. done and done. I do not understand why gays would even want to be "married", as being married is between a man and women.

to be justified in stating whether a gay couple are married or not you would have to state that they are gay married rather then stating that they are married to justify and to not deter what marriage has stood for - for over centuries and centuries.
Feb 24 2009 12:47PM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
This point of this discussion is not to attack polygamy. Nobody is protesting asking for rights to marry multiple people at once. This is about letting two people who love each other be married. So far I have seen no good counter argument other than "I disagree". There is no good excuse for blind hate and discrimination. I feel ashamed that I live in a country where people can't accept one another as who they are. No matter what you say denying gays equal rights is blatant discrimination. My request: You don't have to like gays or gay marriage, but grow the fuck up and deal with it.
Feb 24 2009 12:57PM
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Powdered_Donuts
Posts: 2180 - Karma: 187

Feb 24 2009 1:05PM
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Nico_G
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 15
I dont see how someone marrying somone/ something else will affect you. Your not the one whose gonna marry four women or mary the horse. I think marrying something that is not human is not legal anyways but still I dont see how somone marrying someone else will affect you or anyone else. Your not the one who has to take it up the ass everynight (if its a gay couple) so I dont see why we should not allow them to get married.
Feb 24 2009 1:05PM
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Elife
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 44
How about the Episcolpalians (sp?) they have a gay bishop
Feb 24 2009 1:23PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
This is what I think:

I think we should make "marriage" a completely religious thing.  Then we should have an institution just like marriage today (but called something else) where couples of both sexual orientations are recognized by the government as a couple. 

If this happened, "marriage" would stay a completely religious thing, but everyone would have equal rights.  I think this is where a lot of the misunderstanding comes from.  To many people (myself included) marriage is a religious ceremony, and we believe it should be between a man and a woman (yes, because of the "outdated" book).  This is why we are against gay people getting married.

Though I am against gays getting "married" (because I view it as a religious/spiritual thing) I think they should have equal rights.  I think it is disgusting that some gay couples can't visit each other in the hospital, etc.

And as far as taxes are concerned-- I think you should get tax breaks for having kids, not just for getting recognized as a couple by the state.  That way, people on both sides can stop complaining about tax issues as the tax breaks will be fair to everyone (e.g. a gay couple adopts a kid or a married couple has a kid and then gets a tax break).

Anyways, I guess I just think that if marriage in the religious sense was separated from marriage in the sense that you are recognized by the state as a couple, a lot less people would have a problem with gay couples having rights.
Feb 24 2009 1:54PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
I'd love to hear an explanation of how allowing equal right for gays would "open the floodgates" for crime and craud. I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by it's an economic thing.  If we legalized gay marriage, it would help the economy, not hinder it.   So much money is spent on marriages and their celebrations.  If we legalized gay marraige, the flood of hundred of thousands of people suddenly pooring money into the economy would help our poor economic situation.  Sure, it would meet opposition by religious fundamentalists and right wingers but those types of views (not right wingers, you have every right to be conservative) are outdated and are based on social opinons and non-factual information.  Also, marraige does not have to be a religous thing.  My entire family is either athiest, "spiritual" (say what you want), or agnostic and we marry for the tradition and the tax insentives, not because a religous institution encourages us to do so (for many reasons which are irrelevant for this argument).  So, yes, it is an economic thing.  But you're keeping money out of the economy by not allowing it. 

You say Sean Penn is oversimplifying the issue.  How? A minority of equal people do not have equal rights in a time where we say we live in a free and equal country.  Does it get much more simple than that?

Finally, you're saying this might as well be a non-issue shows your lack of knowledge on the issue.  There are so many gay people out there that experience bigotry every day that to say it is a non-issue and that we have bigger fish to fry is just plain ignorant.  I apologize for being so blunt, we can't move onto "bigger fish" until we solve our own problems first.
Feb 24 2009 2:00PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
sure, it's not soley because of the bible and it can't be perfectly related to segregation but to say those example are cop-outs are bullshit.  I could write entire essays on each one of those ideas. In fact,entire books are written on those topics.  how is it NOT like segregation? If you ask me, not allowing gay marraige, whether it be under the name marraige or something else, while straight people marry as they will, often multiple times in a lifetime, is the definition of segregation.
Feb 24 2009 2:08PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55

Exactly. Thank you for rational thought and common sense. Marriage is not a religiious ceremony anymore.

I don't know why you people keep using the slippery slope argument as an excuse to deny us marriage. How is it that suddenly, when two guys or girls get married, that suddenly there will be violence, and riiots, and people will have four wives, and want ot marry horses, and your kids will get more acne, and the climate will deconstruct, and Wall Street will collapse, and fire will rain from the sky?

You're making quite a few jumps and skipping steps from A,B to P. Gay marriage is not the apocalypse. It is not a question of definition. It is a fundamental right that some people need ijn this world. Some sense of security and love to help us get through life. I don't know why it's so hard ot understand.

Feb 24 2009 2:13PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
That is the kind of thinking I like to see.  Religious acceptance and thinking outside of the box.  Well thought out too. +karma
Feb 24 2009 2:14PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 27
thats like a gay dude sayin you makkin on ur girl in public is grossin him out. just because you have a bias doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed. look at it from the other persons view point.

if gays arent able to get married because of the bible, we shouldnt wear a ring because The Lord of the Rings said so. bad analogy, i know (never even read the book), but you get the point.
Feb 24 2009 2:14PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
Whoa, calm down buddy.  A lot of us don't think that.

I think we have skewed views of both sides because we only see either extreme on the news.

And you're just ignorant if you don't think marriage is a religious ceremony to anyone anymore (see my post above).
Feb 24 2009 2:15PM
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ecski73
Posts: 840 - Karma: 12
im pretty sure that comparing the black rights movement to the gay rights movement is completely unfair, even the gay community agrees that they are completely different. i just feel it has been a little bit easier on the gay community than it has been on the black community strictly because of the fact that homosexuality can be hidden. maybe it is more of a mental struggle. anyways that being said i am all for gay marriage, however it is not a very relevant issue in the bigger picture with the current state that america is in. im not the biggest sean penn fan, although i thought that Milk was a great film even though it is a straight rip off of the documentary that came out about Harvey Milk a few years ago. I loved watching Sean Penn cringe when De Niro brought up Spicoli through, great.
Feb 24 2009 2:17PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
i find it hilarious that 50% of legal straight marriages don't work out and these same people think they can tell certain people they can't get married. all these people who are pushing religious reasons against gay marriage are kinda over looking that divorce was allowed in religion till a king made it so.
Feb 24 2009 2:17PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55

I'm calm. I didn't type in anger, just frustration.

I'm not ignorant of the fact that marriage initially was a religious ceremony, but how come then, that some people can have Atheist weddings,  and still be called married? There are many different types of marriage that don't exactly affirm religion in any way.

I do like your post though. I'd be happy with that, but the opposing side isn't that smart. If you want to make marriage comnpletely religious, that's fine, just don't tell me this isn't about rights, or that horrible things will happen if Gay Marriage is allowed, like most of the other kids in this thread.

Feb 24 2009 2:20PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
Sorry, it sounded like you were angry, my bad.

I don't think atheists should get "married" either.  It might sound stupid, but I truly believe if we called the non-religious ceremony something else 95% of people who currently have a problem with it would no longer care.

Also, I certainly don't think horrible things will happen if gay people are recognized as couples by the state.
Feb 24 2009 2:25PM
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Z_rob
Posts: 3076 - Karma: 152
we talked about this in my english class for like an hour and a half
Feb 24 2009 2:38PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55

And therein lies the problem. Why is it that some non-religious people can be "married" but not others? You'd think the frequency with which this happens would null the "marriage is religious" argument that is constantly used, but it hasn't, and it has just turned into descrimination at this point.

I'd be down what you proposed actually happened, but, unfortunately, the leaders of the anit-marriage movement are incredibly close-minded to compromise and compassion.

Feb 24 2009 2:45PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
as long as i got the same benefits throug whatever it would be called, i would be willing to make that sacrifice (i'm not gay, I'm just not religious).

Question for all of you though:  What happens if a gay couple wants to get married for religious reasons?

Feb 24 2009 2:47PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
keep it hush hush till they are married. but seriously good question. i think further on down the road when gay marriage is legalized different religions will make their own rulings on what they can and can not do. and that is final because you can't make laws against a religion yada yada yada.
Feb 24 2009 2:52PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
We would still have hatred without the bible. My opinion is that the government should get out of marriage all together. Let churches and casinos and gay tolerant churches do all the gay, straigt, polygamist, interspecies marriages they want. None of those things hurt me and as long as all participants are willing there shouldn't even be a debate.
Feb 24 2009 3:03PM
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SMH[-__-]
Posts: 545 - Karma: 13
I totally agree with this, but the government is the one who decides on rights.  All couples should have equal rights though, as all people should.
Feb 24 2009 3:13PM
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sk1er
Posts: 614 - Karma: 10
Thats their problem to find a religion that will allow it.  It would just lead to a messy confusion of church and state.  In my opinion the fight is over with civil equality.  Gay's can make their own religion for all i care. 
Feb 24 2009 3:53PM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
Alrighty I read through this and this is what I think.

I am going to throw this out there very blunt, I dislike religion. Very strongly. It accounts for 90% of the problems we have today and it was invented by men who wanted to scare people into their "cults". I think the bible was written because, at the time, there were no explanations of science etc... Now I don't care if you are religious it doesn't bother me! I don't hate people, I don't look down at anyone. These are just my views.

On to the topic at hand. Marriage was once sacred and so but come the fuck on. Now a days people get married in vegas in 5 minutes. People get married and get a divorce 3 months later. This shit is insane. It used to be sacred and everyone was "until death or sickness do us apart" or whatever you catch my drift. I think modern statistics show that almost 43% of marriages end in divorce? At least thats what the CDC says. And you are worried that gays are going to start a trend of marrying 5 people or continuing on and having people marry horses? You must be out of your mind. The gays that want to get married are people, jesus. I don't understand how this "oh so sacred" commitment should be for men and women only. Times are changing and people need to step out of their shell and see that it wont effect them. I am sorry but marriage should be a bond between two people. And you guys that are saying oh my god, this will all lead to polygamy! Shut up. I said marriage should be a bond between two people.
Feb 24 2009 4:13PM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
Sorry for the double post but i forgot to add that:

Just because I don't like religion doesn't me I don't think there's a higher being etc... And I don't condone anyones beliefs.
Feb 24 2009 4:14PM
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Scolson
Posts: 2904 - Karma: 92
And why does legalizing gay marriage have anything to do with polygamy?
Feb 24 2009 4:14PM
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