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WHY DID MY SHOP SALE THREAD GET DELETED?!?!?!

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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

i'm a little pissed off and confused as to why it was removed. Anyone know why??

my shop is on the verge of goin bankrupt and we're trying to clear out our inventory.

AND THIS ISNT HELPING!!!

Feb 23 2009 2:41PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
spam? its basically advertising, without paying for advertising
Feb 23 2009 3:16PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
you can't use NS to make money for your shop.
Feb 23 2009 3:18PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
It's fine to sell your own gear to other people on here, but using it as an avenue to make your shop money is not, if you want to advertise for your shop, they have to pay for it.

simply put.
Feb 23 2009 3:24PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
not tryin to get threads deleted but....


fireman has a fs thread where his shop is sellin shit, why is his still up, but this guys isnt?


Feb 23 2009 3:25PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

but i'm makin money for myself too! i work on commission and get 2% of every sale i make!

and ped's is on the verge of goin out of business, so do you know of any ways to get this stuff online? besides ebay. that costs a lot too.

Feb 23 2009 3:26PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

yea. the only reason i put this up was because i saw other people doin it, so i figured it was ok. NS is a free online community, so why does it make any difference if the sale is from an individual or a shop?? i could have said i owned all that stuff and no one would know.

there's been a few threads of shop owners and employees that post their shop shit on here. why is mine different? i'm just tryin to hook NSers up with some good deals we have because i know the skis and gear sell easier to people who need it most. and PLUS, like i said before, i work on commission, so i'm helping myself out too. not just pedersen's sports.

haven't any of you heard of twitter or facebook being used to promote small businesses?

Feb 23 2009 3:31PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
in fairness, ive never seen any of the other threads mention the name of the shop whatsoever. its basically "yo i work for a shop and i can get you ____. anyone interested?" by pushing the name etc, your now advertising. and it doesnt matter if you make money too lol, its still advertising.

especially now that ns is owned by studio 411, you can just advertise, without payin the bucks
Feb 23 2009 3:34PM
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PancakeShake
Posts: 1508 - Karma: 175
^ Honestly this guy is only helpin out if anything. He is simply selling ski gear, on a for sale forum for skiing. Who cares if it comes out of a shop...
Feb 23 2009 3:36PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
the fact that the ns rules say no spam/advertising.
Feb 23 2009 3:40PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

well then can i edit the thread to NOT say my shop's name? in all fairness.

hahaha nice typo. i think you're helping me now?

"especially now that ns is owned by studio 411, you can just advertise, without payin the bucks"

now i don't see any problem. haha

Feb 23 2009 3:42PM
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PancakeShake
Posts: 1508 - Karma: 175

A: Who actually looks at that and goes "Oh shit, we have spam"

B: He isnt really saying, "Come visit the shop" or selling stuff for full prices. I dunno, I think NS should just help the guy out.

Feb 23 2009 3:42PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
the mods.....


^ and yeah, you know what i meant lol
Feb 23 2009 3:43PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

thank you! +k to anyone who's got my back.

this whole ordeal seems stupid. i didn't even get a warning about this.

Feb 23 2009 3:44PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
using my example from above, fireman has both a phone number, and the shop name in his thread.


again nothing against fireman jsut comparing the threads as they are similar in this aspect
Feb 23 2009 3:51PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

word. i've seen the thread you're talkin about.

and i think NS needs to work on their "no advertising" rules.

there are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of people on NS that advertise and promote their shops, their own start up companies, companies they're sponsored by, etc. this is all over the website. correct me if i'm wrong, but this is FREE ADVERTISING. what do you expect from a FREE ONLINE COMMUNITY?!?!?

just check people's signatures, pics, and vids... it's everywhere.

Feb 23 2009 3:58PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
i guess no mods saw fireman's thread, or else it would have been deleted too.

you guys can ask bishop for a more thorough explanation of policies, i'm not really sure exactly what the official word is, just that shops selling through NS is a no-go.
Feb 23 2009 4:23PM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
To start I guess firemans thread got missed as it wasn't titled "HUGE SHOP SALE!!!"

The B/S/T forum is intended for people to sell their new and/or used gear to others in the community, not for shops to be clearing out their inventory. I am sorry to hear that your shop is having trouble right now, if that's not a story, but how do we know you aren't just doing this to take advantage of both your shop going down the drain and our users. You post no fixed prices for anyone to compare the shops asking price to yours, and all dealings are through PMs. You complain that ebay costs money, that is because it is a service intended for businesses, and businesses have to pay money to sell, in the same way that we charge them to advertise. If the store wanted to post a sales flier with the deals, and then be shipping stuff from there it is much more legit then all these kids sending money to your paypal address and dealing with the actual shop. We have had people before scam our users exactly this way, so we do the little we can to help protect them, as well as ourselves.
Feb 23 2009 4:42PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

i'm not scamming anyone. i have my own sale going on too. the fact that NS is missing is that almost EVERYONE advertises some sort of company for FREE. ITS A FREE ONLINE COMMUNITY. look at people's signatures. is anyone paying for that advertising??? NO.

and if the mods aren't finding every case of free advertising on this website, then the rules don't really have that much meaning, do they?

the only reasons i posted that thread is because i saw others doing it without getting in any trouble, and i figured i could help NSers out with some good deals since we haven't been selling the skis that well locally.

this, to me, seems like a huge misunderstanding.

Feb 23 2009 4:50PM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
Its not the advertising the shop name, like you said a ton of people do that. It is the fact that, through you, your shop is doing business on NS, without paying the site a cent.
Feb 23 2009 5:06PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

well like i was telling freezed a little bit ago, i was trying to figure out how to contribute to NS but i couldn't figure out how. and now i'm not sure if i want to with all this bs going on. my shop is just a local ski/board shop and we hardly advertise as it is. it doesn't make sense to me that we can't use a FREE ONLINE COMMUNITY that has a BUY/SELL/TRADE thread to do business.

twitter, facebook, and myspace are doing it. the only difference is this is a ski community, not just another social network.

if we decided we wanted to contribute or pay for advertising, how would we go about doing that?

Feb 23 2009 5:24PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
myspace and facebook and whatnot arent owned by a parent media corp like ns is.
Feb 23 2009 5:27PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

it doesn't matter who they're owned by. they're all the same media channel. social online networking. they all have advertising costs for companies just like NS does for their banners and whatnot.

what i'm arguing is that other shop owners and employees are doing the same thing and they're not being penalized for it. i'm not going to mention any names.

if your going to have rules like this, they need to be regulated for everyone, not just me.

i even had moderators asking me about the prices for some of our products and they never said anything. again, i won't mention names for the sake of privacy. but if moderators even go against their own rules, then why should they apply for everyone else. seems sketchy if you ask me.

Feb 23 2009 5:48PM
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Zittle_Headwear
Posts: 46 - Karma: 13
Dude i'm on your side. as long as you are giving NS a deal don't mess with the thread. Right now i have boots for sale bc my shops going out of business too. no one deleted my thread. and if they did its pretty freaking gay bc right now I am trying to give NS the best deal on the internet! and since we are on this topic... im giving a shout out to my thread CHECK OUT MY FULL TILT BOOTS
Feb 23 2009 5:56PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

word!

see, even his NAME is an advertisement! and did he pay for it? NO!

+k brotha

Feb 23 2009 6:03PM
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P4LSkier103
Posts: 235 - Karma: 16
stupid rules. that him sell his stuff
Feb 23 2009 6:20PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161
word
Feb 23 2009 6:24PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
So this guy is driving home from work, doing the speed limit. Some guy in a toyota flies by him. Another guy in a jeep, then another two. He speeds up a bit. Suddenly he sees cop lights in his rear view, and pulls over. The officer comes up, and the guy says, "but I saw this toyota and jeep fly by me, and they were going way faster than I was!" And the cop says, "Yeah, but I caught you."

The rules do apply to everyone. Just not everyone gets caught. I said this in forum rules, we can't be everywhere at once, there are 100,000 plus members on this website. If you see someone breaking the rules we'd love it if you PM'd us about it, but don't argue that someone getting away with not following the rules means NO ONE has to, that's just stupid.

Gear isn't allowed to be flipped on NS, period. The buy & sell is not a place for people to make money. The only people doing business on NS are the advertising partners and NS itself. If you want to sell stuff in your shop like that, go ahead and use craigslist, or ebay, or whatever other site lets you get away with it. Or negotiate a deal with Doug to let you do it, for which he will no doubt charge a fee for providing you with a member base to sell to. This is not a "Free online community" as you put it, it is a private website and the people who own and operate that website are entitled to make whatever rules they want. There are good reasons for those rules (one of which, for example, is that the value of ad partnerships with NS goes down if you can get high economic value from NS for free, and Doug needs to pay rent), but even if there weren't and they were just there "because we think it's a good idea", that would be legitimate, because this isn't a democracy, it's a private concern.

P.S. - I've said this at least a hundred times on here to people complaining about moderation: the treatment of other people does not have precedent value. You cannot take "Well that mod did X in that case" and have that be convincing, that's not how it works; we do what we think is the appropriate thing in the circumstances and it's not always consistent, though it more or less is since we follow general policies. In this case, by the way, 3 mods agreed the threadstarter's sale wasn't appropriate given the principles of the B&S regarding flipping gear, so the thread was removed. That's all you really need to know: if the staff thinks the thread should go, for any reason whatsoever, it's going. Sometimes that pisses people off (especially if it's your thread) but in the end it does a lot more good than the alternative, whereby nothing would get done at all and the whole site would be a complete mess.
Feb 23 2009 7:04PM
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Ski_Unit_19
Posts: 8188 - Karma: 38
why should your shop be able to make money off of newschoolers for free when other shops pay for that exact same privilege?
Feb 23 2009 7:40PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
i would just let this go you really arent doing much
Feb 23 2009 10:02PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
that came out bad... i meant you cant do anything about it and youre just digging yourself a deeper hole more than anything else
Feb 23 2009 10:03PM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

lol serious? a story? wow!

first, that speeding incident actually happened to me, ironically. i got out of it. didn't have to pay shit. so that was dumb.

also, i would pm you guys about people breaking rules, but i'm no snitch. sry. i think that if people are just tryin to get other people good deals that may not have been available otherwise, we should be allowed to do it. shop or no shop.

next, i'm not flipping gear. i'm selling it for the same, if not CHEAPER prices than what the shop has to offer. as for making money for myself, yea i make commission off each sale, but i'm trying to help our national economy out by not letting another local small business go under.

lol you say "The buy & sell is not a place for people to make money." well that just contradicts itself doesn't it? haha nice verbage.

anyways... sorry for all the trouble. didn't mean for this to blow out of proportion. i know you guys are just doin your jobs...

Feb 23 2009 10:08PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
you have no clue how retarded you sound
Feb 23 2009 10:12PM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
he meant pm him, as in to make sure it was cool for you to have this kind of for sale thread...

he never said you were flipping, but thta theres been people who have.

"The buy & sell is not a place for people to make money." not make money in the sense that people give you money for gear, but its not a place for you to go and try to make a profit.

they never blew it out of proportion, but you did technically go against teh rules.



now i dont think your thrad should have been deleted, i agree, you gotta support the small shops now a days. but rules are rules mang.
Feb 23 2009 10:20PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
Exactly. It's not a place of business. If you don't need your gear anymore, or you have to pay a speeding ticket (you can't actually expect us to believe you got out of one by saying "but other people were speeding more"), or whatever... cool. Hook some kids up. But if you're here to make a profit via a private website there are rules about how you're allowed to go about that, and it starts with working something out with Doug Bishop. Same thing for any person or company who wants to promote anything on the forums. We drew the line at names and signatures and a few other little things because that's where we felt the line was appropriate. If you're not happy with the policy, you are free to make your own skiing website.
Feb 24 2009 10:57AM
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FlawlessNinja
Posts: 1391 - Karma: 161

thanks. you are a legit person. i see both sides as well. sorry i wasn't 100% educated on NS policies. i wish someone could have explained it a little better early on.

its dropped.

Feb 24 2009 1:48PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Sorry guys, we should make this clear.

We are a place where your shop can sell a ton of gear. If you are a shop or business, you need to pay us for this ability, or work out some other sort of arrangement.

You can email me at mr.bishop@newschoolers.com to set up an official relationship.

Feb 24 2009 2:08PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
on a side note, how much does it cost for a shop to sell stuff on here? cuz my locla shop has alot of gear left over
Feb 24 2009 3:27PM
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emopoppins
Posts: 3996 - Karma: 269
Homeboy, here's what ya gotta do.

Compile a list of things you have for sale, assign them a definite price, then have people pm you. you dont need a thread for shit to sell on NS. its really not that hard to sell outside of NS. Quit making a big deal about nazi fuckin newschoolers forums and their god damn rules because you can't change that shit one bit. Hell, make a myspace page for your shop, i dont care, if you've got dope shit for sale, leech myspace or something gay, not newschoolers.com, and sell your shit. or do a facebook thread.

i dont know if what i said makes sense but you can sell your shit way easier if you just quit bitching, start a facebook group leeching off the NS.com group on facebook. so yea, do that shit, hit me up, i might want some killer deals if what you claim is true. BRANDON MAHER on facebook. word up mutha fucker.
Feb 24 2009 10:40PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Uhh.....wrong?  Myspace is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a.k.a. News Corporation/Fox.
Feb 25 2009 10:02PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
really? huh. didnt know that. my bad. i stand corrected.
Feb 25 2009 10:29PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
No worries, I learned it two days ago :).  Yay college!  It's scary how many media outlets are owned by 3 or 4 conglomerates. 
Feb 26 2009 8:49AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
is facebook still owned by the same dude though? i wanna say it is, but hey i was wrong on myspace lol.
Feb 26 2009 2:22PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Mark Zuckleberg, or something like that...yea, as far as I know he is the owner/president.  I read an article a while back in Rolling Stone (not the best source obviously) that implied that he essentially stole facebook from some classmates.  It's not that simple or directly malicious, but that's the essence of it.
Feb 26 2009 7:41PM
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joshbryant
Posts: 2133 - Karma: 228
Exactly. I love Bishop and Schmuck, but if they let everyone advertise for free on here, I wouldn't pay for it.
Feb 26 2009 8:04PM
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StealthySquirrel
Posts: 52 - Karma: 10

Word, and there arent a lot of places that can offer contact to such a dedicated and specific group of potential customers. Its worth the cost, at least for us at RIME*knits, and it has been good so far. Plus theyll work with ya, you dont have to pay hella, just work something out that you can afford; cause idk if you have seen the news, but everyone is getting pinched these days....

Feb 27 2009 12:23AM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
lol rogges post was deleted
Feb 27 2009 1:11AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
i noticed that too

hahaha NS has red tape
Feb 27 2009 1:13AM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
it didnt really say much did it? he kida said that mods went overboard on this guy and they should let it slide right?

guess the greater powers at ns didnt want us to see that...
Feb 27 2009 1:21AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
Well I thought Rogge was saying that he knows NS policy just as much as the next man, and he agrees with the decision, but this should have been handled by the mods alone without getting blown up in the thread
Feb 27 2009 2:49AM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
oh i read it quickly and kinda forgot haha, just noticed that his response was gone haha
Feb 27 2009 11:16AM
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