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Can we stop calling it "freeskiing" yet?

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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
Alright, so how long will we call it freeskiing? before you just start throwing hate at me like a monkey throwing poo, hear me out.

Last season twin-tip sales were the highest of all skis. In the past decade we went from no twin-tips anywhere to them being the biggest category of ski. Think about what has happened to skiing in the past decade. I understand the importants of distinguishing ourselves as different when the "revolution" first came around. And yes, I do understand that there are still a handful of people out there who still think skiing is lame and that snowboarding is cooler, but if you tried to show them what is capable on skis today would it really matter? The only people out there who still hate on skiing do it for the same reason they snowboard, because they think it's cool... We aren't trying to prove ourselves to snowboarders anymore, we've done that. We aren't trying to prove ourselves to the media anymore, we've done that. We aren't trying to prove ourselves to skiers... did we ever have to do that?

The reason behind me creating this thread is because I looked at an add for the Dew Tour and it said "snowboarding and freeskiing". Well, think about it... they don't call it freesnowboarding or any other variation of the word... who are we trying to separate ourselves from? racers? is that really important? We're living in a world where vacation skiers who only ski nice groomed runs are now doing so on twin tip skis while wearing the Orage TJ Pro Jacket the cute lady at the ski shop said looked good. Even so, is that person any less of a skier then the core?

I feel that as a sport, in the past decade we have come full circle. A perfect example of the mentality behind this is the intro/kinda outro to The Massive where Tanner was talking with the waitress about skiing. We're all skiers, is putting the label "free" on the front really make us better, or cooler? Lets get over ourselves and finally admit what we really are, and what we have been all along.

As Line coined oh so long ago: "I AM A SKIER". It's that simple.
Jan 12 2009 6:26PM
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carve_89
Posts: 71 - Karma: 10
Good rant dude. Like the lack of "freesnowboarding" , line. haha.

I don't ski park exclusively...I like racing/carving on groomers just as well and still kinda suck at park heh. But I like all aspects of the sport. Try to get better at all of them. So obviously, I've always called it skiing.

A buddy I ski with is a boarder, and well.. he refers to everything as skiing too heh. "Want to go skiing dude?" or "lets go skiing" etc.lol.
Jan 13 2009 1:27PM
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krink
Posts: 211 - Karma: 29
"We aren't trying to prove ourselves to the media anymore, we've done that. "

Unfortunately that's really not true. Snowboarding is still miles ahead of skiing in terms of media coverage, sponsor money, and participation. It's really easy to get sucked into this little bubble called newschoolers (which I love), but when you look at the action sports world as a whole our style of skiing is a minuscule peice of the pie.

If anyone saw Bishop interviewing Simon Dumont after his winning pipe run you'll see how even the highest level riders realize how freeskiing has a long ways to go to catch up to the mainstream notoriety snowboarding has acheived. Events like the Dew Tour are definitely a great step in the right direction to gain freeskiing as much national tv coverage as snowboarding gets.

When it comes down to it, skiing is still represented in the mainstream media as racing. When your sitting on your couch after a day of skiing, flipping through channels, you're more likely to see some ski slalom race than you are a rail jam. So in response to your question, no, not yet anyways. But if we keep pushing in the right direction, that day could come.
Jan 13 2009 1:43PM
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Maximumsushi
Posts: 7837 - Karma: 3,351
It's most certainly true. I think they were around 40% of the skis sold.
I am pretty sure race skis were #2, with sales falling from the previous season.
Carving skis fell HUGE, a drop of 44% I believe. They were in number one but fell off huge as many consumers are now turning to twins as a recreational ski. In addition, some rental fleets are now comprised of twins. At my mountain last year (Laax), it was common to see rec-skiers on a pair of rented Volkl Walls. In fact, I'd say the Walls were the most common ski I saw last season. Out of any ski. That was the first season I noticed a twin as the most common ski on the mountain.

In the past, fat/powder skis had their own classification. These days, most fat skis have a twin so they are lumped in with twin-tips. This skews the numbers a bit.

Great thread Darryl. I stopped saying freeskiing a while ago. It sounds ridiculous. There aren't many situations where I have to tell people what type of skiing I do. I just tell them I like to ski. If they ask if I race or something like that, I'll just tell them I ski powder, rails and jumps.

Hotdogging is a great name. Terrain parks should be renamed "Designated Hotdogging Showcase Areas".
Jan 13 2009 2:01PM
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SteezethePirate
Posts: 506 - Karma: 34
now just make freeskier magazine change its name and your gold
Jan 13 2009 2:05PM
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summersover
Posts: 5777 - Karma: 233
"snowboarding and freeskiing". Well, think about it... they don't call it freesnowboarding or any other variation of the word...
most of what you said is good but i feel that the above quote is a little bit off
when you think about it the reason we call ourself "freeskiing or freeskiers" is because we are different from the average carver or racer because we do tricks in both resorts and bc (including rails and stuff) while they concentrate on other aspects of the sport. However the foundation of snowboarding IS tricks and rails there really is no other aspect, not to disrespect racer boarders but snowboarding is closer to freeskiing than the rest of skiing
bottom line:
When someone says snowboarding I think park rat snowboarders, tricks, rails and Shaun White
When someone says skiing I think of my home resort and your average gaper
When someone says freeskiing i think NS, tricks, rails and dumont/t-hall
Jan 13 2009 2:09PM
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steve.o
Posts: 628 - Karma: 9
ya man im pretty sure im the only kid in my town that skis park or can do tricks, and one of my home mountains just got a park this season(weak ass park) and kids just stand there and watch in amazment while i 270 off the handrail haha
Jan 13 2009 2:17PM
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Mex_LineJib^a
Posts: 3928 - Karma: 65

well said jay, no matter how you call it we'll always be what we are... skiers!

Jan 13 2009 2:32PM
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Steeze-On-Toast
Posts: 679 - Karma: 92
Ahhh, this guy is the man. You have an awesome point. Its always sounded weird to me calling it freeskiing, its all skiing afterall, whatever aspect of it you do. Skiing is skiing, end of. In the words of Line, I am a SKIER.
Jan 13 2009 2:34PM
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toominator
Posts: 4792 - Karma: 120
I thought twins were the fastest growing category, not the latgest?
Jan 13 2009 4:01PM
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toominator
Posts: 4792 - Karma: 120
never mind. I shoulda finished reading the thread haha. i fail
Jan 13 2009 4:03PM
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s.g.
Posts: 355 - Karma: 11
yea,you def tell that to another skier who skis park or a snowboarder who snowboards in park(an my resorts snowborder are basicly gapers) but if you tell someone you ski than hes gonna ask you sth like "oh are you fast" and think of racing.well thats where it comes to a problem when you say you hit jumps you freeski you ride a twintips at my resort people dont even know whats that couse they never met anything like that.thats why probably we cant.snowboarders dont freesnowboard couse there are fucking few million snowboarders in a world while our sport is relativy small and racing is over us.

im talking about situation at my country
Jan 13 2009 4:22PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
 I think this is an excellent point.

And to answer your question, "Can we stop?", the responses in this thread suggest no.

I think it boils down to the fact that most "freeskiers" are ashamed or embarrassed by the image that most people conjure up when they hear "skiing".  It seems to me, that anyone that feels the need to explain to a stranger "I ski...but not like racing, you know the cool kind." is basically insecure or afraid to be labeled as a typical groomer dwelling gaper. 

"Freeskiing" started as a revolt against the rigid format and rules associated with other ski disciplines.  I guess naming it something different was a way to take ownership and distance the sport from racing, moguls, and other generally regarded as "dorky" or conservative types of skiing.  Not looking to hate on other types of skiing or debate what "kind" of skiing is better, but I think it's safe to say that spandex and gates aren't regarded as "cutting edge" as snowboarding.    At this point, I think freeskiing or newschooling has established itself sufficiently enough to drop the "free". 

I typically hate when people play the "I'm above it, just be yourself, don't worry what others think" card as a cop-out, but I think it fits here. 

And for the record, I have never uttered the word "freeskiing" in a serious context.  Shit, I barely say "skiing" I say "Let's go ride", or "I had such an amazing time riding yesterday."
Jan 13 2009 4:40PM
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Phill.
Posts: 1149 - Karma: 37
its kinda like "dental floss".... some people call it "dental floss" while others just "floss"
the dental is just an adjective describing what kind of floss it is, same goes with the "free" in freeskiing...
im sure there is more than just one kind of floss out there (though i must admit i cant think of any other types of floss) just like there is more than just one type of skiing,

but when it comes down to it skiing is skiing and floss is floss.... no matter what adjective you use in front of it.... so to me i could care less what people call it as long as im having a fun time....

Jan 13 2009 4:43PM
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canadianclassic
Posts: 41 - Karma: 14
I just say skiing and let people picture it however they want. If they don't ski themselves they don't care if I race or huck cliffs so I don't bring it up. If they do ski they can see for themselves what I do if they come with me or watch a video. I like the term freeskiing, though, because when most people hear "ski competion" they picture racers and people in knit sweaters sitting around a fire playing the juicy fruit song, where as when they hear freeski competition most people picture people on jumps or big mountain lines. Think of your example of "freesnowboarding" not existing, that's because what would be considered "freesnowboarding" is snowboarding's roots, whereas snowboard racers are the smaller part of the sport. People hear about a snowboard comp they immediately picture people on jumps and jibs. Snowboard racers probably are in the same boat freeskiers as far as naming their sport. Hopefully that made sense and hopefully my paragraph breaks actually worked this time. If this is one block of text could someone please fill me in on how to break a paragraph on this forum?
Jan 13 2009 4:44PM
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DeSena
Posts: 4126 - Karma: 1,352
is it really a big deal
Jan 13 2009 4:46PM
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Phill.
Posts: 1149 - Karma: 37
i believe you just push the enter key on your keyboard

good points....

ps: in my quote box your paragraph is spaced, but on the other screen its not....
Jan 13 2009 4:49PM
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MANDER
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 2,038
i call it skiing but then everyone assumes that i race so i eventually just gave up and call it freeskiing.
Jan 13 2009 4:49PM
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Hairmetaler
Posts: 1200 - Karma: 15
i always say i ski but then most idiots sat do u do twin tips? and then i say yes i free ski.
Jan 13 2009 4:56PM
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Ski..4..Life
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 97
depends really on whose talking really. If it is some uneducated skiier then calling it freeskiing makes
sense because they understand more then just skiing.

but in my case when people ask what sports or activities i do, they get a simple answer

I Ski
Jan 13 2009 5:05PM
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Noddard
Posts: 2652 - Karma: 3,831
i was used to be like all the snowboarders and i didn't like skiers until during the 2008 x games when i saw simon dumont pop 20 ft out of the half pipe on his final run.  this changed what i though when boarders could barley get 10 ft out.  now i ski because of it =]  (ftw i didn't even know who simon dumont was at the time haha)
Jan 13 2009 5:21PM
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canadianclassic
Posts: 41 - Karma: 14
That's what it looked like when I hit post, but whenever I try it it turns into a wall of text.
Jan 13 2009 5:23PM
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canadianclassic
Posts: 41 - Karma: 14
ohh shit I think it's just because I use Opera for a browser. sorry for th derail
Jan 13 2009 5:28PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
if i don't say freeskiing, people assume i'm just another gaper on carving skis. if i put the free in there, they automatically ask me what it is. unless of course you're talking to somebody who knows the scene, then you can just say "i ski" or mention that you have twins.
Jan 13 2009 5:30PM
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MC_POUTINE
Posts: 1380 - Karma: 112
well said
Jan 13 2009 5:35PM
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Bradyballin101
Posts: 106 - Karma: 9
That was a sweet thread, and i've always called it skiing and it sounds weird when people ask u if u freeski? i just stick with the fact that i ski.
Jan 13 2009 5:51PM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,033
Are these US numbers? because twin tips still seem relatively uncommon in europe.. i would say only about 5% of skis on the hill are twins..
Jan 13 2009 6:01PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
You're not the first in this thread to address this, so don't think this is a directed solely at you... but anyways...

"snowboarding" is a sport that has grown way beyond it's base of park riding. Actually - did snowboarding even start with tricks? I thought it was based on surfing the snow... ....nevermind, that's off topic. snowboarding encompasses everything from park to racing to simply riding down a mountain. Out here in British Columbia there are more snowboarders who don't ride the park than those that do. Same in skiing... there are fewer park skiers than not. My point with this is simple. "snowboarding" refers to everything on a snowboard. "freeskiing" refers to everything on skis BUT racing and old school freestyle. You have twin tip skis on your feet and are making turns through the trees dropping the odd small cliff - you could call it freeskiing. In the town I live in there's around 15% of the skiers who ski park, but of all the skiers I'd say 70% could be called freeskiers - old dudes who have never grabbed their ski before can be called freeskiers <-- this is part of the gray area of "big mountain".


Freeskiing as a term is very broad. A skier who likes to ski natural terrain in a creative way is a freeskier. A park rat who can't even turn his skis properly is a freeskier. Instead of thinking we're better or different than other skiers we should become friends with the "skiers" and I don't know... go for a run together? Freeskiing is more than the park. If you refer to the park as freeskiing, maybe you should just call yourself a skier who skis the park? If we keep the term "freeskier" around for too long we will be hurting the cause more than anything. Is there really anything wrong with associating yourself with someone who doesn't ski the exact same way you do?

Let's look at the Dew Tour (which is what inspired me to create this thread to begin with). It says snowboarding and freeskiing slopestyle and halfpipe. Well, if it were to just say "snowboarding and skiing slopestyle and halfpipe, people would get the point. the word freestyle is nowhere in there - on the skiing or snowboarding side... therefore there's no confusion between pipe skiers and mogul skiers.

There are different elements to this sport, that I can not deny. I just don't know if we still need to keep this separation this is our title. It will hurt our sport more than it will help it in the end.
Jan 13 2009 6:03PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
but... if you're talking to someone who doesn't know about the state of skiing right now, they wouldn't know what a gaper is, or that it's a bad thing. they wouldn't know that carving skis aren't as good as twin tips. they wouldn't know, and it wouldn't matter.

It's almost as though people are using the term "freeskiing" to hide the fact that they are skiers. the love for the sport is universal. do you really think you get more joy out of skiing because you do different things than the groomer dude?
Jan 13 2009 6:11PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
it's based on annual sales. how many of those non twin-tip'ed skies were purchased in the past year? probably very few.

why fix it if it ain't broke, ya know?
Jan 13 2009 6:13PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
well you obviously don't live where i live, because around here, being a "skier" is a bad thing. even being a freeskier is still often considered "lame" because the word "ski" is in there, and people around here automatically think "faggot" when they hear "ski." it's unfortunate but true. and i can honestly say that i don't like being called a lame faggot just because i ski.
and yes, i do think i get more joy out of skiing than mr. groomer dude who's never experienced big mountain, park, glades, etc. i think i get a hell of a lot more out of it, and if i didn't, then i wouldn't do it.

Jan 13 2009 6:16PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
I'm having a hard time taking what you just said seriously.

if what you do is lame, no matter what it's called, then way does the label you give it have any importance?

and stoke level is all in the individual. if you actually think that a person who skis groomers to get his kicks isn't loving life while out there, you really need to start thinking deeper into things. there are so many factors pulling on one persons emotions you can't even being to comprehend when is going through their mind while out on the hill.

people who have never experienced winter may put that one day they had on skis as the best moment of their lives, who are you to tell them they are wrong?
Jan 13 2009 6:37PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
if i didn't think the label had any importance, then i'd be telling people i snowboarded, or slid down snowy hills on my buttocks. if the label didn't have any importance, i'd tell people i wrote with a quill dipped in blood rather than a ballpoint pen.
i'm not saying buddy didn't have the greatest time of his life, i'm saying he could have had an even better time had he adventured a little more, gotten better at skiing, and pushed himself to broaden his range.
but if "pizzas" down a groomer are the epitome of fun, then maybe i should go back to the bunny hill.

Jan 13 2009 6:46PM
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Maximumsushi
Posts: 7837 - Karma: 3,351
Woah dude, bad vibes. Where do you live? It's a bit different when you're no longer in junior/jhigh highschool... people don't really judge that shit. I'm just guessing you're that age. I don't know if "freeskiers" are necessarily having a better time. I've shredded a day with skiing "virgins" and they had a fucking blast! It's not about having the MOST fun, it's just about having fun.
Jan 13 2009 6:47PM
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Maximumsushi
Posts: 7837 - Karma: 3,351
I believe their global but I haven't looked at the numbers since last March.
Don't forget this is sales, not prevalence.  After several years where twins are the biggest sellers, their prevalence will obviously increase. It would be very difficult to find out what portion of skis out there are actually twins without doing a lot of counting and stats.

Where are you in Europe? I was in Laax, Switzerland, last season and I'd guess about 20% of the skis were twins. This is probably higher than normal because a big part of the rental fleet was twins and we had a good park.
Jan 13 2009 6:51PM
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S.Anderson
Posts: 369 - Karma: 18
so true man nice rant all my friends ski and thats all we call it
Jan 13 2009 6:58PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
a lot of people don't judge, i'll say that much. but the majority of people seem to be out for their own and in constant competition to prove they are better than everyone else, and that's perfectly natural and i accept it. in a perfect world, i would walk around naked, rarely bathe, and never shave, because of course i wouldn't care what anyone thought. unfortunately, the world i was born into is one where public nudity is a crime and basic hygiene is a necessity for reproducing.
but see, now we have a difference of opinion. for you, it's just about having fun. for me, fun is good, but i'm always trying to get the most out of it. i know that the first time i skied, it was probably the best of of my life at that point, but of course i didn't just stop there and say "that was fun, i'll do the same thing again next time." instead, the next time i went skiing, i tried something new, and i'm going to keep doing that until i reach my limit, because that's how i am. some people don't have that same frame of mind, once they've found what they enjoy, they stick with it, and i respect that. but my mentality is to get the most out of everything, and if i didn't have that mentality then i would still be on the bunny hill.
Jan 13 2009 7:01PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
i don't understand your point... do you even have a point? to me it seams as though you're trying to say your better than everyone else. i don't even know you, but if that's what you're thinking than you got it all wrong dude.

fun is all that matters. it's how you achieve fun that makes us different. DIFFERENT, not better.
Jan 13 2009 7:05PM
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1080ski
Posts: 4424 - Karma: 191
I agree with the OP. Who cares what some random guy thinks when you say your a skier. if they care enough to ask what type of skiing, or they are a friend, then i elaborate and tell them that i ski park, but if somebody random (not random, but somebody i am not really friends with or somebody who i dont care enough to tell) i honestly could care less if they think i am a little grom who sucks.

besides, how much fun is it when you get to the mountain and go through the park with somebody who just knows you ski, not ski park, and throw down for them?
Jan 13 2009 7:09PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
"Last season twin-tip sales were the highest of all skis. In the past decade we went from no twin-tips anywhere to them being the biggest category of ski."

Not really, Twin-tip skis did have the "highest rate of growth" in sales, but they are still a relatively small portion of the overall ski market.

But towards your point, sure call it skiing, call it shredding, ripping, freeskiing, freestyle skiing, whatever you feel like...

Jan 13 2009 7:12PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
my point is that labels matter, and the prefix "free" in freeskiing matters (to me).
fun is all that matters to you. that's great, i'm not saying i'm better than you for not thinking that, i'm just telling you that i DON'T think that. so don't get me wrong, i respect and appreciate your opinion, and i don't think our difference in opinion could make either one of us "better" than the other. but the fact of the matter is that i have a different outlook, and that's not going to change no matter how much fun everyone else is having. i like fun too. but i've never been one to just accept that i am having the most fun i could have, and that's what drives me.
Jan 13 2009 7:12PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
hey, so i just checked your profile... what you said above kinda contradicts what you have to say about skiing in your profile. I believe you said "skiing is about fun, and that's all that matters" or something along those lines - but now you're saying that it's about how you have fun that makes a skier or not.

your words.
Jan 13 2009 7:13PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
you need to read a little further and notice the part where i said "if you're not enjoying it, then something is wrong."
and if i was still riding the bunny hill, then i guarantee you that i would not be enjoying it. some people might, but i wouldn't.
Jan 13 2009 7:15PM
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DavidStewart
Posts: 247 - Karma: 416
I went freeskiing today at Heavenly
it was icy
Jan 13 2009 7:21PM
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Maximumsushi
Posts: 7837 - Karma: 3,351
What.
Jan 13 2009 7:21PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
you're missing the point entirely. I'm done with you.
Jan 13 2009 7:27PM
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spliff.Life
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 1,549
agreed
Jan 13 2009 7:31PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
HOTDOGGING.
Jan 13 2009 7:45PM
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jmason
Posts: 1595 - Karma: 136
It's true, but we can always call it freestyle can we not? I mean, isn't that what it is?
Jan 13 2009 7:59PM
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scott-skis
Posts: 1161 - Karma: 141
very nice rant I definatly agree with you
Jan 13 2009 8:25PM
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KFRADtheLaxBro
Posts: 632 - Karma: 10
I wish I could just call it skiing, but where i live when i tell people that i am a pretty good skier they always ask, "cool do you like race," FUCK NO i do the same shit that snowboarders do but only better. You will never see me wearing spandex, fuck that shit.
Jan 13 2009 8:26PM
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