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Real-life example of obama's policies

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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
My uncle sent me this dunno if its his actual memoir or not and i thought newschoolers would enjoy


Memo from New York City, 22 October 2008

Last night on my way to dinner I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed. Once inside the restaurant, my waiter had on a "Obama '08" button. Again I laughed, as he had given away his political preference - just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the sever and explained to him hat I was exploring the Obama "Wealth Redistribution" concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone whom I deemed more in need, meaning the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed off. So I went outside and gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the waiter inside as I had determined that he could use the money more than the waiter. The homeless guy was most grateful!

At the end of this rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized that the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was furious that I gave away the money he actually earned, even though the actual recipient needed the money more.

Seems like "spreading the wealth around" is easier to swallow in concept than in practical application...
Oct 26 2008 2:51PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Give me a break kid.
Oct 26 2008 2:55PM
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Ronix
Posts: 1396 - Karma: 33
Possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard
Oct 26 2008 2:56PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
why? because you dont like seeing your presidential hopefuls ideas in real life? i dislike mccain and obama both equally, but i mean seriously think about it and it makes sense
Oct 26 2008 2:58PM
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pianoman
Posts: 2503 - Karma: 779
the server was angry because he needs money too, just not as badly. he felt ripped off, and what you did was out an out-of-the-norm dick move. that's totally different, seeing as obama is talking about the extremely wealthy. why do you think it's fair to compare the waiter to the extremely wealthy?
Oct 26 2008 2:59PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
you didnt read did you, my uncle sent me this, and i dont know if he actually did this or not dont call me a dick for posting a story not involving me
Oct 26 2008 3:02PM
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raddar
Posts: 681 - Karma: 65
because in this context, compared to the homeless man, he is very wealthy
Oct 26 2008 3:02PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Well now that you thought about it and realized how dumb it is I guess the thread is done. Unless the usual culprits come in here and argue politics.
Oct 26 2008 3:03PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
The ratio is still nowhere near the same.
Oct 26 2008 3:04PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
YES. The extremely wealthy worked their asses off for their money too, it didn't just magically appear to them. If you were them, how pissed would you be when they took you're money and gave it to a bunch of lazy, low income people.
Oct 26 2008 3:07PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
when did i say i thought it was dumb again?
Oct 26 2008 3:07PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
the ignorance level in this thread is incredible
Oct 26 2008 3:08PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
You simplify that shit way too much. Yes, a lot did work their asses off but quite a few didn't too.
Oct 26 2008 3:09PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
not really, the ratio of new millionaires to inherited ones has completely flipped in the past decade or so, almost all of the wealthy now have earned it. its a new world, you gotta adapt.
Oct 26 2008 3:17PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
I guess you are probably right. But still, that does not justify the thinking that the thread creators story is legit at all.

Oh btw, love your sig. People need to think about things before they vote. WAtch the debates with an open mind and all.

As far as this thread, Obama is a bit too far left with his taxing the corporations more, I am actually not a huge fan of that, because you don't want to kill the hen that lays the golden egg. The story is stil a fucking retarded example though. It's the kind of thing you show to a 4th or 5th grader who cannot fully understand the ups and downs of certain tax plans. In the real world with real adults this argument is so flawed its ridiculous.
Oct 26 2008 3:26PM
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beer.
Posts: 3096 - Karma: 44
except you don't need a million dollars to live comfortably.  whereas the waiter really needed that 10 bucks for food and gas, a multi-millionaire doesn't give a shit about 10 grand.  it's just a drop in the bucket.


here's another stupid example.  what if the guy had told the waiter "no I'm not gonna tip you, I'm gonna give 100 bucks to that rich guy over at that table.  him having more money will make him spend more, and it will trickle down when he eventually gives you a fat tip."
Oct 26 2008 3:28PM
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pianoman
Posts: 2503 - Karma: 779
okay well i'm sorry i misspoke; you didn't commit the move, but my general points remain the same. my karma is dropping like a mofo though.
Oct 26 2008 3:32PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Don't worry about it dude, if everyone agreed with everyone else because of karma this forum would be stupid as fuck. I gave you karma for sure.
Oct 26 2008 3:33PM
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notomatoplz
Posts: 1377 - Karma: 29

can someone please explain to me in an unbiased way how obamas plan would work in a less simplified/metaphorical way. before you get pissed at me for not knowing this, im 15 and i live in canada and i just wanna know what his plan is

Oct 26 2008 3:37PM
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pianoman
Posts: 2503 - Karma: 779
lazy low income people? are you kidding me? there are some out there, sure, but i wouldn't blame the poor for the failed system. and the phenomenally wealthy may have worked for a lot of their wealth, but they don't need all of it by any means. their lives are just fine without the extra money that could make the lives of others possible, or worth living at all. don't try to justify greed
Oct 26 2008 3:38PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
hahaha...zing!!!
Oct 26 2008 3:38PM
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vzdz
Posts: 782 - Karma: 87
               
Oct 26 2008 3:40PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
I'm not sure about exact numbers but he wants to raise taxes on the top like 2% (or even like less than 1%) of income brackets. Basically the ultra rich. And he would lower taxes for "average joe," It's a good idea for the times now probably, but it is a bit too extreme for my liking.

I just gave a shit poor explanation sorry. I went to a discussion with two econ proffesors at my schoool about the economic policies of both candidates that explained it all very well. After talking with multiple econ professors, and people who invest a lot, most everybody things that neither candidate is great in terms of economic knowledge. I think it's true for the most part too, there are far more qualified people out there but whatever, it is what it is.
Oct 26 2008 3:41PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Ya,

I used to think that they were poor cause they were lazy and shit, the more I've learned and seen (I'm only 19 so I'm not like somebody who's been in the real world for long. but I've seen that people aren't poor cause they are lazy, at least not often. Sure there are lazy douches out there but that's not why people are poor.
Oct 26 2008 3:43PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
The US is trillions of dollars in debt, I don't understand why everyone down there still thinks they deserve a tax cut...where is this money going to come from?
Oct 26 2008 3:43PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
True, taxes aren't the devil or anything. Some go to good causes, some to....not so good causes
Oct 26 2008 3:44PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
They're minds can't comprehend this...
Oct 26 2008 4:02PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
whoever said I was trying to justify greed, wow....

Look at Obamas plan, he wants to basically take people like my parents hard earned wealth and redistribute it. Its not just the "Super wealthy" that get nailed, the upper middle class takes a hit too. Also, many of you say that the rich could live just as comfortably with less money, but for the majority that is not true.

Some facts from the chicago sun times....

The 95 percent-plus of the American population that earns less than $250,000 would see the following tax breaks: A $500-per-worker tax credit for people who earn less than $150,000 and do not itemize, and a $4,000 credit per child in college. Seniors who earn less than $50,000 would pay no income tax.

Obama says he would hike several taxes on people making more than $250,000, including the amount they pay on capital gains. Currently, the top income tax rate is 35 percent. Under Obama, that would go back up to 39 percent.

The two candidates differ widely in their approach to the estate tax, which the Republicans call the "death tax." McCain would set it at 15 percent for estates above $5 million. Obama would set it at 45 percent for estates above $3.5 million.


Oct 26 2008 4:07PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
How much do your parents make? I'd be interested to see what a person making over $250k a year has to say about it.....Besides the obvious.
Oct 26 2008 4:14PM
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pianoman
Posts: 2503 - Karma: 779
exactly. how is that not justifying greed? saying you are one of the rich people that will lose money to help the economy but you're just not down with that.
Oct 26 2008 4:16PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
It's unfortunate that we can't rely on the generosity of the wealthy to contribute to society anyway.  I mean some of them are phenomenal, such as Gates and many others.  I'm not saying they should be expected to donate and stuff but they should be contributing more than say somebody ho makes $40,000 a year. 

Are you suggesting a flat tax aspendukes????  Or just not raising the taxes as much as Obama would like to.
Oct 26 2008 4:28PM
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A.R.
Posts: 1111 - Karma: 11

well done dude, im impressed.

Oct 26 2008 4:30PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
i dont think that society should rely on the generosity of the wealthy in the first place, i mean they worked hard to make their money (for the most part). To expect them to give away their money freely is a Marxist view on it, i just dont think that just because they made money they should give it away.
Oct 26 2008 4:36PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Ohhh, I think you misunderstood me, or I just didn't convey my ideas very well.  I don't think society should rely on the wealthy at all, they earned their money for the most part.  They should however be generous to a certain point, I mean if I was that wealthy I would like to think that I would at least give back a bit.  Nobody is self made, nobody.  So the wearlthy should give back a little more than taxes perhaps.
Oct 26 2008 4:39PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
I just re-read my post.  I did say we should be able to rely on the wealthy.  That came out mad wrong my bad.  We shouldn't rely on them, that's whack haha.
Oct 26 2008 4:40PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
no i agree that they should be generous but we cant force them to be by taxing them, i mean again its a question of morals it would be right for them to give it back but this is the "land of the free" they should at least have a choice or some incentive to donate (such as a higher tax break for donating money)
Oct 26 2008 4:43PM
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pianoman
Posts: 2503 - Karma: 779
would defeat the purpose of a donation
Oct 26 2008 4:46PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Ya, heh, I always end up being more conservative than I originally think haha.  This is one thing that does irritate me though, is everybody expecting them to donate.  which is dumb.  They should want to donate I think is what I tried to get at.  I guess its just a thing you'd have to put yourself in their shoes.  Again, I think Obama went slightly too far with his tax plan.  Mccain's plan on the other hand I think wouldn't work as planned because trying to make the wealth trickle down doesn't really work, and it takes a long ass time, and by the time the moeny gets to the people who "need" it, most has "evaporated".
Oct 26 2008 4:47PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Well it would defeat the purpose of the donation being selfless, but it would still help the people that recive it, and I doubt they question the motives if they are getting something for free.
Oct 26 2008 4:48PM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
ya, because it's that black and white...
Oct 26 2008 4:48PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

Everyone should pay the same percentage whether you are shit poor or Bill Gates. Should a person like BIll Gates be "punished" for having more money than God? Fuck no. In case you haven't noticed we (middle class +) are already giving poor people checks every month. Those same poor people are getting checks from the government (which is "we the people") and they haven't paid taxes of any sort in many years. So in the end they are already benefitting even before Obama comes into office. I'm not talking about a couple hundred dollars either. It's involves four digit numbers...I can't remember any exact numbers at the moment.

Obama wants everyone to be equal. Forcing the rich to pay ungodly amounts of taxes and giving it to the poor people who mostly are unemployed and don't do shit. This won't give ANYONE incentive to get out there and make dough for themselves. Now it will give people incentive to be "poor" (even though they REALLY won't be. It will just be a name that means "I get checks from the government, and I drive a Roush") and not have to work, BUT they will get paid to sit on their couches. Remember...Bill Gates started in his BASEMENT. It's very possible to become wealthy, but you just need to work at it.

Rich people pay more taxes than middle and lower class people anyway. The bigger the amount that is written on the check to the IRS the wealthier you are. BTW Wealthy people pretty much always pay their taxes every year. They just have an accountant do it for them. My mom and dad have a business, so they use an accountant and I just hand my shit to the accountant along with our business stuff.

Oct 26 2008 4:53PM
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Cuckoo
Posts: 637 - Karma: 9
WOW
Oct 26 2008 4:54PM
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Dr.Scholl
Posts: 1139 - Karma: 47

no he isnt, not at all, both of them need money and a wealthy man has more money that he knows what to do with

whoever wrote this needs to rethink their argument because right now it leads me to believe they have trisomey 21

Oct 26 2008 4:56PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
hmm.  I don't think it is as extreme as you are saying but I think there should definitely be more incentive for people to go work rather than not work.  I cannot stand lazy people, get a god damn job and stop complaining.  As far as Gates starting in his basement: How many other basement companies failed miserably?  It's not that easy or simple.  Those lone success stories always get way inflated and then everybody goes around saying its mad easy and that they could do it too, and in real life, there is no way in hell that they could have done what Gates did.
Not all poor people are lazy.
Oct 26 2008 4:59PM
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macvid
Posts: 425 - Karma: 11
fuckin american politics we have heard enough already ..just vote already it took us a couple months and we made a decision and americans bitch about it for 2 years enough politic talk already....by the way go obama
Oct 26 2008 5:00PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
This is a pretty mild thread, with not a lot of hate going around so relax chief.  Just a discussion.  I feel like I took something out of it, which is more than I can say about most of ns.
Oct 26 2008 5:02PM
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babujib
Posts: 5039 - Karma: 104
okay no one has more money than they know what to do with minus say a paris hilton and those types thats extremely ignorant comment to make. considering that you are a skier, im gonna say your parents are upper middle class, who will be slammed by obamas tax plan, do you have more money than you know what do to with? and good argument in saying oh well your wrong and whoever wrote this is retarded, good use of facts and sources to back up your statement
Oct 26 2008 5:02PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
What do do you define as upper middle class?  I'm not so sure that they will take a hit from Obamas tax plan.
Oct 26 2008 5:06PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

No one ever said it was easy, but if you fail then you need to get back up again. The goverment (aka "we the people") should not have to pay for your mistakes.

No, not all poor people are lazy, but a large majority of them are.

Oct 26 2008 5:10PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
Dude, I dunno about a large majority.  But I'm the kind of person who hates giving money to a system if even like a small amount of the units in the system are abusing it.  so I too am leary about bailing out poor people because I'd worry about my money getting wasted on shit.  Perhaps we should be giving them an education not money maybe? What would you think about that?

A good example for me is our education system (high school).  A lot of teachers are absolutely terrible, they should not be teachers and are really dumb as fuck.  Then you have the really good teachers who really do make a difference.  and it would be great to give the good teachers a raise, but in doing so you'd have to give the shitty teachers a raise too.  And to this I say fuck it, nobody gets a raise because some people fuck it up for everybody.  Its unfortunate for the good people which is sad, but less money would be wasted.

I guess there are two kinds of people, one who would give money knowing some would be wasted, and those who would give none because part of it would be wasted.  I dunno if I explained it that well but maybe you know what I mean.

I guess I don't have enough experience (or money) to be actually put in a position like the top 5% of the income brackets.  Hopefully someday though haha.
Oct 26 2008 5:16PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
as i said in the thread im guessing you jacked this from, thats not really a valid application.

a valid application would be if that waiter was making 1000 a customer, while the other 95% were making far less. he wouldnt lose the whole 1000, just be making say 700 per customer, still far more than everyone else, just not quite as much as before.
Oct 26 2008 5:19PM
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