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The reason i like Barack Obama

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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
I know that JD hates when people paste articles, but this kind of sums up one of the things i like most about the guy.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1853025-1,00.html
Oct 23 2008 10:41PM
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DBabay
Posts: 157 - Karma: 10

here is a little anecdote of the american tax system.  its called bar stool economics.  http://www.wisebread.com/bar-stool-economics-0

check it

Oct 25 2008 9:41PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
its been posted before, and its equally as absurd. first of all, lets be real, large corporations and the super rich rarely if ever pay their full taxes, they find ways around it. second of all, they made their money here, thats where they will stay.
Oct 25 2008 9:44PM
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DBabay
Posts: 157 - Karma: 10
damn i thought it was probably posted before.  my bad.
Oct 25 2008 9:45PM
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BASS_PRO_SHOP
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 52
actually my dad never went to college and my mom just had a 4 year degree she paid for. they qualified for welfare for the longest time and now they own both their own business out of hard work. redistribution of wealth is a good idea but total bullshit. someone that is born into wealth, that's not their fault so why punish them for it? a homeless guy either chooses to be homeless or has made some fucking dumb mistakes in their life and gave up. ax's comparison is perfectly applicable.
Oct 25 2008 10:30PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
congrats, your a one in a million story. for every one of you that manages to make it, theres a shitload that cant, and its not because they are lazy, its cause the way the system is set up, you dont really have much choice

Oct 25 2008 10:41PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
Please provide an example or two where people dont have a choice to be poor because of the way the system is set up,
Oct 25 2008 11:08PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
I'll give this one a shot.
Say an inner city kid is born into a lower class family.  His parents can't afford to send him to a good school.  He will probably never go to college because he / his parents can't afford it.  He will almost definitely remain lower class because of his limited access to educational resources.  His kids will probably follow in the same path as he did for the same reasons.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to get out of this cycle.  It's just very hard for some, especially those who live in generally lower class areas.
Oct 25 2008 11:14PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
take the fact that people are born into the ghettos, sent to shitty public schools, cant get into a college, cant get a good job, live in the ghettos, have kids in the ghettos, they go to public schools, get a shitty education. its a never ending cycle
Oct 25 2008 11:17PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137

How about this, the kid gets a job, works summers like crazy and works during the school year to pay for tuition and books.(doesnt buy stuff like I-pods or the hottest CD) and to save rent he stays at his parents place, or not.

Like you said, it's not impossible, just hard work. Thats How I paid for college.

Oct 25 2008 11:21PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
judjing by the fact that your a skiier, i doubt your exactly struggling through life.
now. lets think. half the adults in the area dont have a job, do you really think some 16 year old will? not to mention he certainly wont have a way to get there.
Oct 25 2008 11:30PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
yeah, I see your point, I hope you see mine too though.
In my opinion if the class difference were lowered people would still have to work very hard to be successful, but they will have more resources and a better opportunity to do so if they had more money.  And not only them having more money, it's more them having a closer amount of money to the high class citizens.
I personally think I have a very good life with many opportunities, I go to a good school, I live in a good neighborhood, and do what I love.  I still have a summer job and believe in hard work.  But think about it.  If two people work equally hard, but one starts out with a head start (more money), who is going to be more successful? (Not saying that this is you or anyone, it's a generalization)

And yes, people who have less tend to work harder than people who have more, because of necessity, but that is not always the case.
Oct 25 2008 11:32PM
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WhackStyle.
Posts: 406 - Karma: 14
Ya that might happen, but did you take the time to think about the people that won't vote for him because he is in fact black? Oh he's also half white by the way...
Oct 25 2008 11:32PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137

I dont want to get too carried away either, when we say succesful, we are talking about raising them out of poverty.

My point is with a little hard work it shouldnt be too hard for somebody to raise themselves out of poverty. then looking to the future, make a better situation for thier kids and so on.

Oct 25 2008 11:39PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
but it IS hard
Oct 25 2008 11:45PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
It is hard, life is hard, but this is America and it is possible, the jobs are there, the schools are there. We just dont need to be taking other peoples  money because "it is hard"
Oct 25 2008 11:48PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hard. and virtually impossible are different things. im all for people working hard. but at a certain point they need to have the opportunity to work hard. the way the system is set up its almost impossible to get out. your trapped in the ghetto
Oct 25 2008 11:51PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
like i said before, Please provide an example or two where people dont have a choice to be poor because of the way the system is set up,
Oct 25 2008 11:55PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i did up a few posts up. your born into a ghetto ass neighborhood. your surrounded by horrible examples. you are stuck going to shitty public schools, which means you cant really go to college, which means you cant get a good job, which means your stuck in the ghetto, then you have kids, they go through the same cycle.
Oct 25 2008 11:59PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137

HOw about this, the kid applies himself gets good grades in school, gets accepted to a college.My sister in law was a teacher at one of these inner city schools and says it wouldnt take much for the kids to apply themselves and get good grades so they can go to college.

My question to you is, how is throwing somebody elses money at them going to help them? If the kids arent going to put forth the effort then it wont help them to throw more money at them, and if they can put forth the effort then I am sure they can go to college if the work hard at it.

Oct 26 2008 12:09AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
even with good grades, how would they afford it. you dont get scholarships for getting straight a's in a school where 75% drop out. shit a lot of colleges wont even take you, because your so far below their level even if you do manage to graduate with decent to good grades. you dont even have the opportunities in the school. classrooms are overcrowded, teachers are underpayed, they dont have enough books, half the time they are outdated or in shit condition.
Oct 26 2008 12:18AM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
A lot of colleges will take you, and the student will pay for school, like i said above, working summer jobs and holding a part time job while going to college will pay tuition. We arent talking Harvard tuition here, we are talking about lifting them out of poverty.
Oct 26 2008 12:23AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
and how will they get to those jobs. not to mention chances are if they can even find a job (between being in the ghetto and the current economy). and if they do, they probably are trying to get food on the table to feed their family, and trying to keep a roof over their head.
Oct 26 2008 12:25AM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137

Dude does it always rain where you are from,?cause you have the most negative outlook on life for poeple. Throwing other poeples money at them is not going to help them get out of poverty. It has to come from within.

Oct 26 2008 12:30AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
and you seem to think that these people are just lazy fucks who choose to be poor.
Oct 26 2008 12:32AM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
just realize the path you are going down when you take major steps like this towards socialism. this sint going to happen just to even it out, once its around it will be a good long time. you should read a book called the road to serfdom by freidrich hayek, he talks about nazi germany as an example that fascism is the logical evolution from a socialist state. also, why do we need the government to do this, why can't it happen on a private sector? its frustrating that peple like you say, we need to look after these people, but instead of me looking after them, all you who dont want to should.
Oct 26 2008 12:36AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i would be looking after them, smartass.
Oct 26 2008 12:39AM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
put your money where your mouth is, dumbass
Oct 26 2008 12:54AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
what. not me personally obviously, but my dad donates a shitload of money now. adn in the next 5 years, he will almost definitely be in that 250k tax bracket. and guess who he voted for? obama. oh no! but hes gonna tax him to death right?
Oct 26 2008 1:00AM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
haha thats great. and i'm serious when i say that. and there are plenty of people that do the same is your dad. but why does he need to have the government force him to pay if he feels(and you do) that he pays enough to charity. thats his choice and his prerogative, i just don't think that he or anyone else, should tell everyone they have to do the same. the interests of people, as they move towards helping others, will do the trick, let people do it privately, nobody should tell me or anyone else how to spend their money
Oct 26 2008 1:06AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
and if i thought that society wasnt the greedy motherfuckers that they are hahaha id be all for it. but sadly there arent enough my dads, bill gates, that other guy that donates a shitload whose name i cant think of right now. i wish there were more of those people but there arent. they are outnumbered by the guy that takes all that cash to buy his 13 house.
Oct 26 2008 1:08AM
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BASS_PRO_SHOP
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 52
haha youre a fucking dummy hypocrite. so you speak for the millions of others out there where you have not a single clue as to how they got to where they are? the system you talk about... how about you elaborate on this... is this system you talk about describing how CEOs of companies get paid millions  sitting behind a desk where a farmer only gets ten bucks an hour for breaking his back from sun up till sun down? let me ask you this... who do you think is more important to the economy? the one farmer in charge of a crop field? or a CEO who handles a company worth billions of dollars? recent times prove that the farmer cant hold a hoe up to that CEO. its all relative. people get compensated more for more important jobs. if you want to talk about those one in a million stories, its those damned corrupt bastards who rape the "system" and all in it for personal need. this system you talk about is called LIFE. to keep things running. by the way, my grandfather and his father before him were farmers and we hold that true to today. so dont think i was bashing on something i dont know about.
Oct 26 2008 1:08AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
and that makes it right? you basically just proved my point. hell yeah the system exists, and its fucking wrong. its not like the ceo is gonna be suddenly making 10 bucks an hour. he will be making 60 million instead of 80
Oct 26 2008 1:12AM
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BASS_PRO_SHOP
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 52
my god.. you really dont get it at all.. ok lets try this... do you think its unfair that an inner city kid gets paid 7 bucks for working at a wendys, or a doctor who gets paid ten times that? its the same thing! you have to learn how shit really happens. though i cant blame you for just seeing black and white because you admit yourself that your parents have more than enough money and always had. pick up a book.
Oct 26 2008 1:16AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
what? i know how shit happens. yes i think its unfair that that kid is stuck at that wendys job, because its damn near impossible for him to get a better one. im not really sure what your point is
Oct 26 2008 1:18AM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
haha its dam near imposible. amazingly enough corked7man knows this employee at wendy's!
Oct 26 2008 1:21AM
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BASS_PRO_SHOP
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 52
my point is that this mystical "system" you think thats holding people down is just simple economics. there is no actual system! its just how life runs and it doesnt take a fucking bill gates to reconize that you can get out of poverty. have you heard about that kid who left home with nothing and got a job while living in a homeless shelter? within 4 months, he had enough money to buy a truck and live fine. hows that possible? i mean... like isnt there a system holding him down and such? no you god damned retard. he saved his money and responsibly held a job. how should that be any different because a kid is black in a ghetto? whats preventing him from leaving? is it this "system" you talk about? magically holding him down as he gets ass raped by poor decisions that he has no control over? yeah sure there are things that the  person cant control but to say its impossible because of some "system" is totally alleviating the blame off them and rewarding them with money that they're not totally entitled to.
Oct 26 2008 1:25AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
and you say IM the one that needs to read a book. the ghetto ass neighborhoods were DESIGNED to keep black and poor people in, and away from the rest of society
Oct 26 2008 1:28AM
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BASS_PRO_SHOP
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 52
oh yeah? how long ago was this? is there some great wall keeping them in? this is where you get me lost... you think theres some kind of fucking forcefield keeping them in. maybe you should stay away from spike lee films and star wars. i think youre getting them mixed up a bit.
Oct 26 2008 1:30AM
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RICK_ROSS
Posts: 6983 - Karma: 3,343
IS IT NOT OBVIOUS HES A TERRORIST?!?!?!

obama rimes with osama!!!
Oct 26 2008 1:30AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
yes. theres a forcefield keeping them in, thats precisely what im saying. look into why the built the expressways where they did in chicago to start with. that should give you a start.
Oct 26 2008 1:32AM
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BASS_PRO_SHOP
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 52
look, when a lot of people disagree with your logic its probably faulty in some way. pick up an economics book. im done here. that should give you a start.
Oct 26 2008 1:36AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hahaha this has very little to do with economics in the terms you speak of, and alot to do with society and what they do with the poor and minorities. but ok.
Oct 26 2008 1:37AM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137

And you dont think that the governent isnt corrupt? I wouldnt even say corrupt but misguided? Both will have it's flaws. Sooo the reality is why should the government take our money. Nothing is going to be perfect but it is wrong for the government to take someones money and "spread the wealth"

the difference is, we put our faith in the individual,(which you think is corrupt), you put your faith in the system (government, which is run by the same corrupt/misguided people)

What makes somebody in governemnt that much smarter to tell us what to do with our money.

Oct 26 2008 10:52AM
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dope-fiend
Posts: 147 - Karma: 86
of course the rich should be punished!
i mean think of how they got rich in the first place!
obviously by being evil and ripping people off is the way people get rich. So we should punish the rich for being such greedy bastards. I mean all rich people are evil right?

nobody could possibly get rich by working hard and being smart right? Like doctors are all greedy bastards right? 


Oct 27 2008 10:54PM
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dope-fiend
Posts: 147 - Karma: 86
NO IT IS FUCKING NOT

i know tons of fucking illegal mexicans who make mad fucking money cause they have a little something called a FUCKING WORK ETHIC.

anybody in this country who is in poverty is either LAZY or Handicapped. If it is my parents duty to pay taxes for diamond plated wheelchairs for the handicapped so be it. But for people that are able to work there is no excuse. it is easy to make money in america as long as you are willing to WORK HARD.  Work is not as easy as playing video games, thats why its called work.

you dont have to be any smarter than a chimpanzee to make alot of money doing all sorts of jobs as long as you arent lazy.
Oct 27 2008 11:32PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
you are an ignorant, moronic fuck. enough said.
Oct 27 2008 11:33PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
these threads are shit fests.

Suffice it to say I think raising taxes on any sector, on any business, is a shitty idea.
Oct 28 2008 12:02AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
you called me a faggot and a queer in the same post. im impressed at how unintelligent you can make yourself sound in a single post.
Oct 28 2008 12:38AM
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dope-fiend
Posts: 147 - Karma: 86
well you must be embarrassed to get put in your place by someone so unintelligent
cause if you had something to say to back yourself up you would have said it instead of changing the subject
Oct 28 2008 1:17AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
have you read the thread. ive backed myself up throughout the entire thing. not to mention countless other threads. i dont find the need to a) repeat myself or b) waste the time writing it out to people that think faggot and queer are valid insults.
Oct 28 2008 2:00AM
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