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The reason i like Barack Obama

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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
I know that JD hates when people paste articles, but this kind of sums up one of the things i like most about the guy.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1853025-1,00.html
Oct 23 2008 10:41PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
please, not this again. there are a small number of people who take advantage of the welfare system, versus a massive number who need it, and are trapped in their lower class.

regardless, his tax plan does not only benefit them. its not welfare, its benefiting the average american who with the high food and gas prices, is struggling to pay their mortgage, and get their kids through college, etc.
Oct 24 2008 9:53PM
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dope-fiend
Posts: 147 - Karma: 86
lowering taxes for the poor will only encourage more immigration which is killing the country. If obama makes it pretty much free to raise your kids with a good education than people from around the world are gonna come to take advantage.  its just stupid logic. america is already the finest pussy in the entire world. everyone wants to migrate and grab a piece. we need to make america less enticing.
Oct 24 2008 9:57PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
what? your ignorance is killing me bud.

first of all. immigration killing the country? they do the jobs noone else wants to do. they dont pay taxes is gonna be your next argument. even if they were registered citizens, they are making 5 bucks an hour, shit we might even have to pay them minimum wage then. they still wouldnt pay taxes they are well below the bottom bracket. canada has socialized medicine (oh no, socialist right) you dont see them running to canada. they wont run here any more or less than usual.


as for make american less enticing, with the exception of immigrants, the rest of the world hates us. were imperialistic assholes going wherever we please, and people are sick of it.
Oct 24 2008 10:06PM
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dope-fiend
Posts: 147 - Karma: 86
"trapped in the lower class"

do you know how much cocksucking motherfucking better the American "lower class" is than most places in the world? Do you know how fucking spoiled you sound? In alot of the world, Lower class means your starving to death,, not "oh i cant afford to send my kids to motherfucking college" 

GET IT?

College is a luxury not a god given right.      Do you think in Congo parents go bitching to the fuckin government cause they cant afford to send their kids to college?

My cousin is one of the smartest people i know and he makes a shitload of money every year working on web design and he didnt go to fucking college.

my god america is so stupid. we could be a stable country but we shoot ourselves in the foot by paying people like that quadrupeligec gaper 25,000,000.00 dollars for going 20mph too fast into a tabletop
Oct 24 2008 10:09PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
your rants make no sense. what the hell do pointless lawsuits have to do with anything.
so other countries have a worse lower class. we should stoop down to their level? that makes no fucking sense.
Oct 24 2008 10:11PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
if America sucks so much then why don't you leave?  Socialism is all bad, there are good parts of it and if you can take those good parts and incorporate them into a capitalist society, we can make a much more stable economy.  And there is a HUGE difference between lower class and people in so much poverty that they are starving.  We are not in Africa, we are in America.  Yes many other places in the world have it SO much worse than we have it, but that is why people live here, to have a good life.  This is a country that was founded and grew on immigration.  We should not discourage immigration.  Our land of "equal opportunity" is having less and less equal opportunity to those born into lower class families, because they will be stuck in a cycle that is very hard to get out.  A little socialism would help reduce this class gap and helping America become more like it was intended to be.
Oct 25 2008 12:09AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I'm sorry, I'm sure you had a good argument, but anyone that uses this phrase automatically loses all credibility in my book.
Oct 25 2008 12:13AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
really?

someone looses all credibility for uttering one fragment?

IMO someone who says someone else looses all credibility over one fragment has no credibility in my book.
Oct 25 2008 1:20AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Say someone starts their argument with "Hitler was a great man and his vision for the world should be fulfilled." You would consider whatever they had to say next meaningful and insightful? If someone starts their argument off with a ignorant quip, I doubt very much their elaboration will be much better.
Oct 25 2008 1:31AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ok so let me get this straight, one ignorant quip makes you loose all credibility... ok yeap i got that, just wanted to make sure you and i were on the same page here. 

or was it only "that" ignorant quip?
Oct 25 2008 1:56AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Its more like acts of blatant stupidity, and its reserved for serious arguments on NS.
Oct 25 2008 2:01AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ok now you really have me confused... is it ignorant quip? blatant stupidity? or is it "this phrase"?  keep your story straight, my feeble little mind needs some spark notes...
Oct 25 2008 2:19AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
"if America sucks so much then why don't you leave? "

This statement, at least to me, reeks of blatant stupidity and is, in my mind, a useless quip that shows little or no forethought. I'm not changing my story at all dude, I thought it was a stupid remark, and it lends less credence to his argument. Are we really getting this god-damned nitpicky about everything?
Oct 25 2008 2:25AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
you fail to see you said "looses all credibility"

now if you ask me that sort of statement reeks of blatant stupidity and............(ready?) ignorance.

Oct 25 2008 2:28AM
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landonn
Posts: 2913 - Karma: 385

John McCain Motherfucker. haha. The thing that really gets me is the tax and how Barrack Obama wants to spread the wealth.  None of the media that is portrayed shows a fair true picture.   Tonight i saw McCain and he was totall reading from a teleprompter.  Until you see a candidate in their element, you don't know wat they are truly like.  Media isn't fair and never will be.

Oct 25 2008 2:30AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Oh for the love of...

Go back and read my original response, you can run through the circular argument you present as many times as you wish.

End result, starting your argument off with something ridiculous is a great way of persuading me. Loss of credibility for sure.
Oct 25 2008 2:47AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i know these 2 numbers get thrown around allot, 250k and 95% of americans....

the thing is, (and i wonder if Barack is up on this). the numbers do NOT match up..... to be in the (gasp) top 5% of americans. whom obama would have you thinking are making 250k are in reality earning an incom of a tid bit less 150k a year... far from the 250k number i hear being spouted out of his mouth every time i turn on the TV.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html  

so i digress, top 1% of american right, over 388k, now what ammount of the money do they make? 22%. what sort of money do you think they pay into in respects of income taxes? 40%

funny how that works. Barack really does want to "tax my success"
Oct 25 2008 2:47AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
shit, i missed a line...

the top 1% of americans. pay 40% of the nations tax burden. 

in a nutshell.
Oct 25 2008 2:49AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Relative percentages of their income that go to taxes compared to the bottom 1% would be a better statistic to throw out. Your wording is misleading.
Oct 25 2008 2:52AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm
Oct 25 2008 2:54AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
do you know how much the bottom 1% pay? cause i dont. do you know how much the bottom 50% pay? cause i do.... try 3%...

so if you want to go find out how much the bottom 1% pay in income taxes, GO FOR IT!
Oct 25 2008 2:56AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hahaha but as weve established, so many people dont "succeed" they just are there, thanks to rich parents and whatnot.

regardless of top 5% or 250k either one is rich. 150k still rich. or at least damn well off.
Oct 25 2008 3:23AM
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NC-skier
Posts: 423 - Karma: 49

The thing I don't like about obama's tax plan is that it in a way punishes you for being rich.

Oct 25 2008 9:23AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Its better than McCains plan, where the poor get shafted.
Oct 25 2008 11:05AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Not at all.  My roomates brother graduated from USAFA last year, got a full ride to Harvard med school and is loving life right now. 
Oct 25 2008 11:46AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Its not like it takes away all your money. sure you pay more taxes. you also make more money than anyone else.....
Oct 25 2008 1:23PM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I
need the money".

I laughed.

Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" Buttom, again I laughed as he had
given away his political preference -- just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was
exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I
told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--I
pointed out the homeless guy outside.

The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've
decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was very grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless
guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I
gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in
practical application.
Oct 25 2008 1:40PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
the difference between a waiter whose making very little, and missed out on his ten dollar tip, and the guy making 500 grand, is pretty substantial. your analogy would be better if your waiter was making 40 grand a person he served, but now instead he only makes 30. shit even 20. yet hes still making more than 95% of the other servers in the restaurant. and
Oct 25 2008 1:44PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
In hindsight I should not have wrote that, I admit it it was a dumb statement, but could look at the rest of it and tell me your views on what I said? (I actually would like to know, I like learning other peoples points of view as long as they're backed up and a well thought out opinion)
I also disagree with the fact that one stupid phrase makes the whole argument lose credibility. I know it's your opinion, but for me it makes me skeptic when I read it and most likely I will think of it less highly, but it doesn't lose all credibility to me.
On another note, when i said "socialism is all bad" I meant to write "socialism isn't all bad"
Oct 25 2008 3:07PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Haha thats awesome.
Oct 25 2008 4:02PM
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BASS_PRO_SHOP
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 52
Barack Osama!
Oct 25 2008 6:56PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241

just imagine mcain the old fart dieing. just imagine the worldst most pwerful and influentila country ran my palin? just imagine that she thought keeping an eye on russia from her home country alaska was a big deal. just imagine her having to keep an eye on the rest of the world. so forget about john versus obama. do you really want to risk that stupid citch running the usa?

p.s obama is fuckin radical and approaches everything in the most realistic approach you can take. no bullshit

p.p.s fuck mcain hes a dumb unrealisitic twat

Oct 25 2008 7:18PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
please tell me you are not old enough to vote
Oct 25 2008 7:36PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oct 25 2008 7:58PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

OMG! I fucking love you! You pretty much just summed EVERYTHING up. Well, almost everything...

BTW My mom said, "PWNED!".

Oct 25 2008 8:06PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
except as i said earlier, its not really a valid comparison
Oct 25 2008 8:29PM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
its not their hard earned money if its over 250,000 is it?
Oct 25 2008 8:32PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
orly??

cause you could argue that the poor will get shafted just as bad under Barack...

who pays poor people wages? o thats right, the rich people.

really dude, its not as if McCain came out and said, "i am going to raise taxes on poor people" quite the contrary, he has said on numerous occasions that he wants to keep ALL taxes low.  BTW the poor dont pay fed income taxes, so if you are giving them money dont call it a tax cut,(like Barack) because they DONT pay taxes. call it a free money check.
Oct 25 2008 8:40PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

Apparently not.

Oct 25 2008 8:40PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
it still is, to a degree. but whose to say that its THEIR hard earned money. A) They could, and often are, born into it. B) Even if they arent handed their riches directly, their educational opportunities are far better than those that are poor.

Also, theres a difference between not having the money to go to college, put food on the table, etc. and not being able to afford your 3rd house, 5th car, etc.
Oct 25 2008 8:41PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
Ben, seriously, who are you, or anyone else to say how much of my money is actually mine?

if i go to college, work hard, make good decisions, and end up making the big bucks, thats MY money.
Oct 25 2008 8:44PM
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hey_dude_its_me
Posts: 1403 - Karma: 32
um yea you didn't do that
Oct 25 2008 8:48PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
yeah but while your working hard at your job, the company your working for is arguable fucking over the poor.
Oct 25 2008 8:48PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
it is their hard earned money, but since they have a lot, they do not need money as much.  It will be redistributing the wealth to lower the class gap.
Would you rather have someone with a huge income, and who has a lot of surplus money and a person who is barley getting by or a person with a huge income, who has some surplus money due to tax, and a person who can get by with greater ease?

This is just an analogy, but you get the point.
Oct 25 2008 9:04PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
you scare me. 

ad hominem right drew?
Oct 25 2008 9:07PM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
diminishing returns, but that doesnt mean it is any less yours.

people can work to close the gap on their own agenda privatley
Oct 25 2008 9:14PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
why do I scare you?
Oct 25 2008 9:22PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
you basically advanced income equality in your post.....
Oct 25 2008 9:26PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
I don't think that everyone's income should be equal.  I'm am much more in favor of capitalism than socialism, and do not believe that communism could ever work.  But I do believe in lessening the growing chasm between rich and poor.  In my opinion that allows people to have better opportunities and to become successful in life even if you were born into a lower class family.
Oct 25 2008 9:32PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hahaha im with him. i dont believe in total socialism. however i think everyone has the right to better opportunities than we get now. should everyone be equal? hell fucking no. should the poor be as absurdly poor as they are? hell fucking no
Oct 25 2008 9:37PM
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