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Needless Snowmaking

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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
I know I've made a bunch of thread tonight. Nothing against A-Bay, Loveland, and whom ever else is already making man made snow. I know we all want to ski right now but I don't think they should be making snow when they can just wait and let it fall naturally. I mean think about how many gallons of water their using and how much energy goes into snowmaking. So what I'm getting at is that their wasting resources and polluting our Earth to create snow so people can start skiing a couple weeks early.

What do you guys think? Hate all you want, its just my opinion.
Oct 10 2008 12:33AM
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Scott~
Posts: 2551 - Karma: 49
OAKL3Y will you be at triple threat this weekend? I really need to slap your stupid ass~
Oct 10 2008 4:04AM
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sweso2
Posts: 225 - Karma: 18
Thank you Twoods. Also, I'm a rather environmentally conscious person myself but Abasin and Loveland making snow doesn't bother me at all. Why? I think the competition to see who opens first is interesting to watch and it is also a tradition. I think it's pretty sick that these two ski areas are willing to spend tons of money on snowmaking just to get people stoked on skiing. Even though it's probably mostly for marketing purposes, the stoke is still there and it's making people happy. People need something to be happy about right now.
Oct 10 2008 4:05AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
yes i know we do have some effect, im just saying, out the 4.5 billion years our planet has been here and gone through sooo much damage, our 100 or so years of pollution from cars, factories, etc.. is not gonna do shit to the earth, yeah we have smog, harm natural habitats, and just screw stuff over as a whole. but in the long run we arent doin shit. and again all ive seen since this whole global warming fad started not too long ago, is awesome winters, and records for cold temperatures and snowfall. and it would help to convince me if people didnt have to lie.
i was watchin this show a couple months ago about global warming, it was talking about all the lies in an inconveniant truth, and other studies some examples.... they were saying how the average temperature in some region has risen a large amount, but the region they were talking about is where a city was built, and they were comparing the average temperature before the city was even there, and after it had been there for a very long time, so obviously the temperature is gonna rise alot.
another one was a graph showing either average global temperatures, or temperatures for some region, it showed a pretty big increase in temperature over a long amount of time, but they showed the rest of the graph, which they didnt show in the movie, and it was the exact same pattern, the graph was slowly going up and down and since we have been here, the graph had absolutely NO change compared to past temperature changes. it increased at the same rate.
another example is they were talking about some river or lake or somthing where the water level has decreased an extremely large amount, but it was because a dam was built. they just failed to say it in the movie. and there were tons of other examles

really, if global warming is so obvious and it actually is happening, why do people have to lie about it? wouldnt there be actual true examples they could use?

im still all for finding alternative fuel sources and stuff, considering that humans will probably be here for a VERY long time, the human race will have to find some way to be better on the enviornment. hell it actually pisses me off how much we rely on fuel, technology and all that crap. i would much rather have to kill a couple deer or buffalo a year, fish, and get my own food, build my own house, make my own clothes, and not rely on all this technology so i can be lazy, i just think its a much better way to live. like i seriously think that when im done with college and a little older, im gonna go live out in the middle of nowhere for a year. ive been planning it for years.


but anyway until they actually find an alternative fuel soruce that isnt bullshit and just a way to make money, im gonna keep driving my suv, buying suv's and i hope resorts never stop making snow.
really the original idea in this thread that resorts are harming the enviornment is just dumb.


Oct 10 2008 4:13AM
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OsChulz
Posts: 51 - Karma: 24

LoL, Your an idiot!

Oct 10 2008 6:25AM
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who_cares
Posts: 379 - Karma: 10
THANK YOU!!!
I don't get why SKIERS won't acknowledge global warming.  It affects us the most probably, we rely on snow for our sport.
Oct 10 2008 8:22AM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,201
TWoods is 100% correct. The fact that scientists do not all agree on global warming is a myth.

Also, I live in the East and snowmaking is a must for our season. However, while snowmaking does use up a lot of energy, it is usually only done for the first few weeks of the season. As was mentioned before, running all the chairlifts at a resort is the most energy consuming operation seeing as they run all season.
Oct 10 2008 8:31AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Yuuuup.

If you're going to bitch about energy consumption from snowmaking, you better be bitching more about them turning the lifts.

Unless you're skinning up the mountain, skiing is FAR from perfect.
Oct 10 2008 8:59AM
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twix_182
Posts: 9248 - Karma: 27
well if they start making snow now, it'll create a base for the natural snow to set on, which is what well be skiing on so it sounds like a good idea to me
Oct 10 2008 9:03AM
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alexbiker
Posts: 11 - Karma: 10
hey patrick do you have a car?
Oct 10 2008 9:30AM
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DaveM
Posts: 2936 - Karma: 1,562
well i can see where you comming from if you live on the west caost but here in the east its kinda impossible to start off a season properly without man made snow..
Oct 10 2008 9:34AM
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whitewater413
Posts: 528 - Karma: 215
you sir are an asshole and no body loves you
Oct 10 2008 9:35AM
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urbanjib
Posts: 1801 - Karma: 255
first of all...chill out man

Now tell me somethin boi

do you drive a car?
Do you use electricity?
Do you ever burn anything?
do you have a house, and use your air conditioning unit, or warmer?
Do you ever leave lights on?

and your goin to sit here and tell us all this shiit...

Worry about your own energy waste first, than you can biitch at others

and dont tell me you dont waste energy, cause you would have to drop a couple grand just for da sola panels, not counting converters and shit
Oct 10 2008 9:37AM
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magic_steve
Posts: 544 - Karma: 10
they wouldnt be blowing snow if they couldnt make money off it. simple as that.
Oct 10 2008 10:33AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -8
Global warming is merely the natural cycle of the planet warming up from the last ice age.  The polar ice caps will melt at some point, its just how it goes.  It will eventually refreeze as well.
Oct 10 2008 10:46AM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
getting a solid base from snowmaking is critical for tourist revenues.  say goodbye to thanksgiving skiing most years if you want snowmaking to stop.  it will be more than "a few weeks later", trust me.  you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Oct 10 2008 10:52AM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,889
This is actually the dumbest discussion of global warming I've ever encountered. Thread creator is an idiot. And remember a lot of resorts cant open at all without snowmaking.
Oct 10 2008 10:55AM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,388
you really didn't read what I wrote, I guess i should have written more. for the sake of being concise here you go in point form:

- factories and cars haven't been around for 4.5 million years, so we can't view the effects.. just natural life trying to maintain homeostasis. Therefore, you can't predict what our effects will be in the long run.

- inconvenient truth was a sham for ignorant people to get worried about the environment and for our buddy to get nominated for a nobel prize. very little good info there. do research for yourself, because that show you were watching was probably as biased as inconvenient truth itself. Let's all forget that shitty movie ever existed. It actually HARMED the cause, as is evident in your arguments.

- I have seen the average global temperature chart. it has ups and downs over long periods of times, and shorter periods of times. Right now we are just barely off the curve... however being barely off has huge global effect.

Here is a little graph, taken from Sciencepoles.org, the website of the international polar foundation:

Click for larger image

there's your 100 or so years of industry, and there's your notable change. Not much temp change... but just 1 degree of average temperature change effects the whole world on a large scale. If you want to know more about the CO2 problems, look here:

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/376149/

- It is undeniable that using energy that has to be produced is in some way or another harming the environment, on some level, however small. Even solar panels must be built, leading to waste.


Oct 10 2008 2:51PM
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smooticus
Posts: 1798 - Karma: 27

Arent the machines run on electricity. Pretty sure that electricity doesnt pollute. And as far as using up water, who cares it'll melt and come back like it always does

Oct 10 2008 3:00PM
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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
We can double team his ass!
Oct 10 2008 3:28PM
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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
Nope. I don't drive yet.
Oct 10 2008 3:31PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7898 - Karma: 22,521
I think you're absolutely right, but you should e-mail or call some of those ski areas and tell them that you think so, highlighting the fact that you can't wait to go skiing of course, but you would rather see them save the energy and wait a little longer. One person calling/e-mailing isn't going to do much, but at least they will hear it.
Oct 10 2008 3:36PM
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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
That statement right there somewhat supports global warming, global climate change, or whatever you want to call it. Back in the day when ski resorts were built they could always depend on the snow falling without having to make snow so the snow will stay when it naturally falls. Now that global climate change is taking more of an affect every year, the resorts that are in terrible places have to make snow to even start the season because the snow won't stay without a base.









Oct 10 2008 3:37PM
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NCurry
Posts: 490 - Karma: 959
WORD
Oct 10 2008 3:37PM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
UNDER THE UNDENIABLE POWER OF TITS I AM HEREBY DECLARING TEAM TREVOR WOODS AND HIS FOLLOWERS THE WINNERS OF THIS E-DEBATE

the rest of you are pretty stupid.

and to the one who says global warming is just a myth... you are completely right. If you had stuck with whatever story you got that from for just a couple more lines you probably would've learned that the actual phenomenon is called global climate change and is quite real.
Oct 10 2008 3:48PM
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skiingonskis
Posts: 2076 - Karma: 262
thank you thank you thank you!!!!!

yes, global warming IS happening, its obvious.  google some stuff and you will see how arctic sea ice is shrinking as well as the ice cap in greenland.  Glacier nacional park has LOST over half of its glaciers in the past 20 years.... seems pretty convincing to me.   on the other hand, early season snow making is on such a small scale that its almost irrelevant.  we could be doing other things to help save energy that would be a lot more effective, such as car pooling to go skiing, or turning off all the light in your house when you leave, or making sure hte tires on your car are at the right psi.  it really amazes me how ignorant some of the people on NS are, considering our sport will be the first thing to be gone concerning climate change.
Oct 10 2008 4:49PM
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pussymoneyweed
Posts: 2055 - Karma: 60
my mountain in central maine barely used snowmaking if at all. and didn't use a groomer and i have never had a more fun time at my home mountain.
Oct 10 2008 5:10PM
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Jacob-T
Posts: 325 - Karma: 9
The way i see it.

They will make the snow, we can't stop them, i will ski that snow, i will enjoy myself.
Oct 10 2008 5:57PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
YEAH, cause lets get caught up in semantics. GRAVITY, WOOO.
Oct 10 2008 6:05PM
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skibum193
Posts: 3737 - Karma: 33
you know whats funny? if it wasnt for snowmaking... Colorado wouldn't have been open until December last year instead of October. so suck it, i want to ski
Oct 10 2008 6:10PM
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aznsteeze
Posts: 1319 - Karma: 52
im pretty sure my resort is 90% man made and 10% natural
seeing as it snows like a centimeter in ontario.
okay. that may be an exaggeration.
and i think that we should be worrying more
about cars more than man made snow?
first of all, making cars takes quite a bit of energy,
and then the pollution.
its far more of a concern that snowmaking.

Oct 10 2008 9:12PM
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Funnel
Posts: 7817 - Karma: 1,537
Wait up here.  You go on and on about how snowmaking is bad.  What do you think groomers are doing to the environment?  They're built to be efficient for their size but do you really think they don't hurt our environment?  EVERY night thousands of them go out and groom thousands of miles of runs.  Plus with less air at higher altitudes that means they have to work even harder to get oxygen they need to run and it's a hell of a lot of work pushing tons of snow up hill and down.  So before you bitch about some snowmaking on one run (I'm not saying snowmaking doesn't pollute) consider everything else a resort is using.
Oct 10 2008 9:34PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7898 - Karma: 22,521
If electricity is made from wind turbines, solar panels or something like that it doesn't pollute. Where most electricity comes from is oil or coal fired power plants which are a major contributor to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, as well as soot, smog, and other chemicals in smaller amounts, so most of the time, electricity pollutes A LOT. Nuclear power plants don't pollute much in making the actual electricity, but the waste left over from the electricity-making is HIGHLY toxic and radioactive. This is pretty much common knowledge, fyi.
Oct 10 2008 9:35PM
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traylortrash
Posts: 1935 - Karma: 2,451
wow...
but as far as my opinion goes, I really want to ski so I'm ok with them opening that early.
Oct 10 2008 9:38PM
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who_cares
Posts: 379 - Karma: 10
i kinda hear what ur sayin, but i think that since skiers represent such a small percentage of the world pop that although we should try to lower our energy consumption / pollution / carbon footprint i think it would be more worthwhile to try to contribute to more broad environmental causes.  My rational is that if we can make the gov't change laws on pollution, then mountains will hav to cut down on consumption as well as every one else, instead of just the mountains doin it.

with that said, i am not discouraging people to try to take small scale initiative, in fact, i encourage it because it does make a small diff in the environment, but it makes a bigger difference in peoples opinions and points of view.

so i guess my main point is, skiers r not the sole cause of global warming, nor are we even one of the biggest.


Oct 10 2008 10:45PM
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skiblandford
Posts: 1503 - Karma: 2
if you can make it take it
Oct 10 2008 10:49PM
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Bob_Gnarley
Posts: 1583 - Karma: -1
you think spraying frozen water on a ski slope is polluting. thats fucking hilarious.
Oct 10 2008 10:54PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,388
No, but it does take a great deal of energy and resources to put that snow on the slope. Everything that goes into doing it produces pollution.
Oct 11 2008 2:38AM
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vzdz
Posts: 782 - Karma: 87
I couldn't agree more snowmaking machines throw out thousands of gallons of water PER MINUTE. Already there's a drought going on in california and I can't help but feel impartial towards all the useless snowmaking/waste of water so kids can hit boxes a couple weeks early.

It's hard to debate because resorts need to make money too.

I don't mean to hate and I know skiing asap is awesome but we're going to end up biting ourselves in the ass sooner or later.


Dec 4 2008 4:08PM
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Bodeau.
Posts: 1637 - Karma: 48
Wow you are selfish! what about the thousand of kids who do ride park?
Dec 4 2008 4:26PM
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Eastcoastskier09
Posts: 197 - Karma: 8
it has not snowed in the east for so long. its been like the beggining of november. But the resorts need to keep making the snow.
Dec 4 2008 4:52PM
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sykonaut
Posts: 346 - Karma: 11
There have been extremely large studies done. That have proved that we are closer to the next Ice Age before all the polar caps and glaciers melt. Honestly, the east is getting more snow then ever lately. It hard to fight what is actually happening with data that may be skewed.
Dec 4 2008 7:38PM
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ski_ENDUB
Posts: 2535 - Karma: 86
Resorts make snow so that they have more than enough cover for the holiday season which makes up a very strong portion of their profits. Not being open by thanksgiving generally isn't a good sign of things to come.
Dec 4 2008 7:51PM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 541

This thread got crazy.  But yes, I would be willing to ski a shorter season.  Man-made will never be the same, and if it means a shorter season, then I will appreciate that time even more.  THis decade may be the differnece in whether my kids or grandkids will ski.  Also, to those who rave about last years epicness, global warming will cause big swings in weather, so more storms and some super snowy years, but on average, WARMER!  I ski at mount snow, which has the most snow guns in north america and also the first to open in NE.

Dec 4 2008 8:12PM
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Inbred_Redneck
Posts: 2776 - Karma: 28
Fuck you for the midwest ski resorts comment. 
Dec 4 2008 8:30PM
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jeremy.g
Posts: 4931 - Karma: 459
i believe in global warming, but thread creator, your dumb. its going to have a ridiculously small impact or basically none. if we want to do something about climate change china needs to stop building a new coal plant every week.
Dec 4 2008 8:39PM
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Armanzoid
Posts: 2453 - Karma: 26
Lets thing about it this way boys, it should make it much simpler.


Lets say there is global warming and we did nothing to stop it, what would happen?

- Global flooding
- Millions dead
- Entire civilizations wiped out
- Possibility that all the damage is forever irreversable
- World chaos

Now, lets say there is no global warming and we do something about it anyway because we believed the "lies?"

- Cleaner air
- Cleaner water
- Cleaner enviorment
- (I'll go to the extreme for you guys) Mass economic failure because we spent so much money on green technology

Now, which one would you rather have?
Dec 4 2008 8:42PM
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3ski6guy0
Posts: 9201 - Karma: 135
wow people are fucking retarded. to all the kids who believe that global warming is bullshit, id like to bet money that you have never done any research about it other than hearing from some other retards who preach that its all bullshit. once you grow up maybe you'll learn to think for yourself. do a little research before you make claims.

to the person who says global warming is bullshit because we havent seen any changes since our campaign to go green...it doesnt just happen overnight. we are just starting to be affected by what we did 50 years ago which means that there is way more to come.
Dec 4 2008 8:50PM
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MadSteezin
Posts: 4572 - Karma: 936
I couldn't agree more!

Even if global warming, global climate change, or whatever you want to call it, isn't real and what not. Why not do things to reuse, reduce, and recycle? Why not go green to help out our environment? Why not use 100% clean alternate energy sources?

Someone tell me why not to do any of those things mentioned above?
Dec 4 2008 8:53PM
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joemarky
Posts: 38 - Karma: 9
Don't get down on the mountains for trying to make alittle money.
Dec 4 2008 8:53PM
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antwone
Posts: 1352 - Karma: 157
dude there is so much other shit then the snow making that pollutes the earth. I bet you think that driving a hybrid is changing something.
Dec 4 2008 8:59PM
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