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What Obama is all about, check it out

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JayDope
Posts: 6842 - Karma: 408
So after seeing countless threads ragging on mccain and palin, i came up with a few things that obama is all about, maybe it will change some of ur minds on voting for him, maybe not? I just thought id share some of this with u. Try not to make any arguements, just read it and post ur opinions, and lemme know if it has changed ur mind at all

-voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out of state abortions. personally im against abortions all together, but if i had a daughter and she went and got an abortion and i wasnt notified about it, i would not be happy about that.

-supports affirmative action in colleges and governments quotas. IMO, affrimative action was great for minorities a while back, but cmon now, i really dont think its necessary to give them advantages anymore, whatever happened to us being all equal?

-says he will deal with street level drug dealing at a minimum wage affair.

-admitted to his use of marijuana and cocaine in both highschool and college

- his religious views seem very sketchy, and seems like hes hiding something (which most if not all politicians do hide certain things)

- says after being elected his first goal would be to meet with all muslim nations....why?

- opposes the patriot act

- voted to allow lawsuits against gun manufacturers

- supports universal healthcare

- voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo prisoners

- supports granting drivers liscense to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!? is that serious?

- supports extending welfare to ILLGEAL IMMIGRANTS!? i dont want my hard earned money going to anyone trying to take advantage of our countries system

- voted yes on comprehensive immigration reform

- voted yes on allowing ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS to participate in social security

- opposed to any efforts to privatize social security and instead, supports incrasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. yes, he wants to increase taxes

- voted no on repealing the alternative minimum tax which now hits the middle income brackets, another tax increase

- wants to raise the capital gains tax, another tax increase

i just found alot of this interesting, and thought some of u might as well


EndFragmentEndFragment
Oct 6 2008 4:15PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
thank you nico, for putting it in simple terms.

To add onto it, people also shouldnt be upset about people like Nico's nanny, who was likely an immigrant from Mexico. Those people bust their freaking ass off, and I've seen them. working 90+ hour weeks, trying to get overtime pay, and barely getting any sleep, or having any fun. They do jobs that nobody else is willing to do, and it helps people out, as well as the economy.

I'll tell you.. California wouldnt be within the top 10 economies in the world if it didnt have that workforce. I want to applaud them for their hard work every time I see them doing extremely hard work in restaurants, and warehouses, and all of the above - just trying to make it in this world.

Above all, they send money back to their country, which only really benefits us. Imagine if Canada was poor? How many of them would be coming into Vermont to buy alcohol, because its cheaper here. Thats a huge economic boost to that region, and thats just one of many examples.

If Mexico's economy gets better, it only helps us out.

No, they dont necesarily pay taxes, and yes, they use our healthcare system sometimes and get away with it for free.. but then again, they bust their ass off at jobs that are so underpaid, and in such depolorable conditions without benefits that its ridiculous. To give them the bare minimum is hardly the sacrafice they made to leave their families, and come here.

Yeah, so i'm coming across as a bit of a bleeding heart, but seriously people. HAVE ONE for once, you greedy bastards! lol.

Oct 16 2008 12:37AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
While we're talking about illegal mexicans, from the L. A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County.)

11. Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.
Oct 16 2008 1:10AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
I think illegal immigration is one of the most important issues we face. Yet, I don't remember it coming up once during the debates, its very strange to me how irrelevant shit like abortion and gay marriage are more important issues than this problem.
Oct 16 2008 1:18AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
just curious, what sort of implications would there be on our economy if all the illegals were out of the country tomorrow.

how many businesses are dependent on cheap illegal workers, to provide a low cost labor enableing them to turn high profits? Even if you replaced the illegal workers with Americans, you'd end up with the businesses being unable to pay minimum wage for the legitament workers.


I understand your view on illegal immigrants, nut what are your thoughts on the businesses that depend on illegal workers?  (operating under the assumption that illegals really do make up a significant portion of a work force required for product creation)


Oct 16 2008 1:39AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
allow responsible working immigrants on temporary visa's from all countries. We don't need to rely on Mexico, look at the health care industry, much of it is staffed by African's. And if an employer is reaping the benefits of illegal labor with high profits then they deserve to burn.
Oct 16 2008 2:05AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
word.  if we took all the illegal immigrants out of the workforce right now, our entire country would come to a grinding halt and we'd be even more fuck than we are right now.  in more cases than not, illegals are here to help support their families back at home where they would have had no opportunity to do so otherwise.  i've worked with a fair share of illegals and they are all extremely hard working people who are here soley to support their families at home. one guy i know spent a month to get here, works 4 jobs, lives in a one bedroom apartment with 9 other people and still sends the majority of his money home to his family in Guatemala.  you can't just kick people out of the country because they don't pay taxes. that's like saying we should kick the homeless off the streets because they don't have homes. if the legalization process wasn't so rediculous, difficult, and beurocratic, more aliens might actually go through the process.
Oct 16 2008 2:11AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
wow? the mexicans you worked with were all workers huh? That's shocking. What about the Mexicans you met in your gang?
Oct 16 2008 2:20AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
What about jail then? Can we send people to jail for not paying taxes? Any info on this?
Oct 16 2008 2:22AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
i think you missed the point, right now the current system is dependent on the fact that illegals are getting paid way under minimum wage. If you have to have legitimate workers, you'll have to pay them legitimate wages.

it is my understanding that the current system will not function, grind to a halt as said, if the situation above replaces the illegals.
Oct 16 2008 9:44AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
sorry, i missed the part about letting the businesses that are dependent on illegals burn.

That'd be ok, except that the products being produced through cheap illegal workers is food, you let the food producers burn, we all burn.

What i'm trying to point out is, while sclado may infact have a valid point that the illegals are putting burden on our society, it's not so simple a problem where we can just kick them all out. Out society is burdened in one way, but benifits in another.

what can you do right now?
Oct 16 2008 9:50AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
https://www.newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/388638/


read what I wrote in that thread, and my name isn't sclado.


Oct 16 2008 12:12PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
lol ya tax evasion.... you go to the federal country club.
Oct 16 2008 12:13PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Wrong, this is the most flawed view on illegal immigration of them all. Less than 10% (some estimates say less than 5%) of illegals are working those farm field jobs that you're talking about.

My dad and I have even argued this with our Congressman when he was over for lunch a while ago. The  congressman used the example of a glass of wine, saying how the wine was much cheaper because of illegal immigrant labor. However, my dad countered with "Perhaps this wine is cheaper when I buy it at the supermarket, but how much does this wine really cost me? When you factor in the indirect costs of increased taxes payed to fund expanding law enforcement, welfare, and prisons due to this problem, is this bottle of wine really only costing $15? I'd rather pay $30 dollars for this bottle of wine and have a decrease in my taxes." The congressman had no way to refute this point at all.



This partially explains my cynicism towards democratic politicians and just politicians in general. How could my dad and I know more about the subject than someone who is involved in the upper echelons of government? But the congressman's view must be resounding among his peers since its apparent that they love to do nothing about the problem.

No food producer is "dependent" upon illegal labor. Its simply that if the guy next door hires illegals, then he can bring his product to market for a cheaper price. Look at it like outsourcing to China, but within our own borders. If one business goes to China, they all have to so that they can compete with the cheaper prices. If no businesses were able to hire illegals, then no business would be "dependent" upon them.





Oct 16 2008 12:40PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
neither of us have first hand testimony on what the framers' intentions were regarding the constitution- we can only speculate. Moreover, intentions are not what drives legislation or "service based redistribution"- only the text of hte constitution so your point is moot.

And while ours is still around, we should probably obey the laws...

Our federal government has no right to fund federal education programs. They can grant aid to states, but why not just have the states collect revenue and do it themselves, rather than bind themselves to some Federal carrots?
Oct 16 2008 1:00PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
probably not a whole lot...

remember when the illegals formed that parade to see what the effect would be and there was a very negligible one?

Most companies hiring illegals are agricultural and theyre subsidized anyway....
Oct 16 2008 1:05PM
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Nico_G
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 15
I agree and disagree cause really if we are already facing over poplulation in some areas and if we made it really easy to get into the country anyone and everyone would move here. We dont want to turn into to a china with a billion people cause that would cause a shitload of other problems we dont need.  I do think there are good moral illegal immigrants who just want to support there families and then there are bad ones who are criminials. Just like there are regular people who are good and bad.Although crime and murder is not a justifiable, it is a little understandable when you think about the struggle those people face to get basic things most other people have.
Oct 16 2008 1:14PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
agreed.
Oct 16 2008 2:20PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
what about kids from your town who dropped out of school to sell drugs? you can't pull an argument apart by asking rhetorical questions.
Oct 16 2008 2:21PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
Exactly. It would be like saying "the only white people I've dealt with were doctors, so all white people are doctors". When in fact, very few white people are doctors.
Oct 16 2008 2:49PM
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mackinnon
Posts: 5153 - Karma: 161
they should expect to go through the process if they want to have the rights of a US citizen. "ridiculous" wouldn't be a word i'd choose to describe the naturalization process...you can't just snap your fingers and become naturalized, its the same with any process when you're dealing with the government (how long does it take to get a passport? oh yeah, months) and yes i realize those are two very different things, but nothing is easy when you're dealing with government on a more than local scale.
Oct 16 2008 3:37PM
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SteezyMcDizzle
Posts: 514 - Karma: 31
because the government is cool

Oct 16 2008 3:48PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
how is it not ridiculous? you said it yourself. we live here and it takes months to get a passport. that's ridiculous.
Oct 16 2008 4:33PM
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Sufferboy
Posts: 4241 - Karma: 122
dude drew i agree with that. why should we change something american is built on
Oct 16 2008 4:49PM
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skivt12
Posts: 239 - Karma: 33
 Sarah Palin is gonna kill of all the polar bears with here off shore drilling
Oct 16 2008 5:05PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
what in the fuck are you talking about?

How is my point moot?! What im saying is our country is built on federalism which is both implicitly and explicitly written in the constitution (amendment X all powers not delegated to the national government are reserved for the states). What you are trying to promote is income redistribution and national education programs by THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Im saying you can't regard the intentions of the framer's mindset (who by the way were wealthy elitists who believed in elitism to their very bones, hence our republic system) when you pass proposed legislation. You can only regard the text of the constitution. And to burst your bubble, no federal entity has the right nor power to provide universal healthcare, education, or redistribute income.

There is a major difference between a program of welfare and progressive taxation. One is legal, the other is not.
Oct 16 2008 5:48PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
YA LETS DOUBLE CAPITAL GAIN THATS REALLY GOING TO HELP THE ECONOMY...
Oct 16 2008 5:57PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
just wanted to make sure everyone sees it.
Oct 16 2008 6:08PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Firstly, why you're using the word "regard" in this context baffles me. I assume you're trying to sound smart, but just say "look at".

Secondly, constitutional interpretation has attached to it a long history of common law authority, in US jurisdiction and elsewhere (the judicial committee of the privy council in the UK being a good example), and you're massively oversimplifying the process. Interpretation may be limited to the four corners of the document itself (this is a debatable position to begin with), but it must be purposive, and must take into account the nature of the document as a "living tree", to use the classic analogy. The basic nature of a working constitution is that meanings of its provisions change over time to meet the developing needs of the society it pertains to. Your views on this subject betray a superficial understanding of constitutional law.
Oct 16 2008 6:12PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
so that twice as many people can prove you wrong like last time?
Oct 16 2008 6:12PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
you havent tried yet so obviously you have no idea what im talking about... and no one has really proven me wrong yet, they have just called me things like cunt because they dont want to believe the truth.
Oct 16 2008 6:20PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Since "double capital gain" doesn't actually mean anything whatsoever, I actually have to assume that it's you who has no idea what he's talking about. It makes almost as little sense to say "double capital gains tax", because the tax system for capital gains is incredibly complicated and can't just be "doubled".
Oct 16 2008 6:30PM
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mackinnon
Posts: 5153 - Karma: 161
i don't think its ridiculous really, i was just saying it takes a long time for any process to go through on a level like that. i don't think becoming an american citizen should be one stop shopping, if you get what i'm saying.
Oct 16 2008 6:35PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
wow JD i would think you to be smarter than that... I meant regard as in refer to or to consider- to keep in mind so to speak- when passing future legislation. If you missed the implied context of my sentence, that your own idiotic mistake so don't accuse me of using words i don't understand. I guarantee you my writing and english education far outweighs yours.

Moreover, what the fuck do you know about the legal interpretation of the constitution? There is absolutely no "taking into account the nature of the document as a "living tree", to use the classic analogy." The document as a living tree metaphor is refers to the precedence in which new legislation is passed. for example the executive summary or personal comments the president leaves when he signs a bill is taken as legislative text rather than nonsense now.

I think both of you are forgetting the point here is that new legislation cannot be passed unless it has some sort of constitutional grounds. no shit the constitution changes THROUGH SUPREME COURT precedence setting cases, but the fact that we are founded upon federalism doesn't.



Also, i fully believe you have no fucking clue what you are talking about, so before you use that tone with me, look at your own consitutional knowledge. If you knew what you were talking about you would agree with me, because what i am talking about refers to the most recent "living tree" change of the constitution.

Yes, in the 1940's with the stone court you coudlve had heavy taxation as FDR greatly increased the federal government's power over the states. Mainly using the commerce clause in art1sec8, cases such as Wickard v. Filburn almost eliminated federalism, but the courts back then were threatened with court packing from none other than FDR.

Thanks to Lopez v United States, we're back on par with legality in regards to federal legislation.



The fact that you do think what im talking about is constitutional interpretation, not the fact that we have dual federalism in this country betrays a non-existant understanding of constitutional law.
Oct 16 2008 6:36PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
KUSHBLUNTS, you were saying something about knowing what you were talking about?
Oct 16 2008 6:39PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152
I think it's fairly obvious that he's referring to the capital gains rate. Which, can be doubled. If the capital gains rate went from 15% to 30%, one could say that it doubled.
Oct 16 2008 6:41PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
and by english education, i mean legal writing.
Oct 16 2008 6:41PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152
please don't belittle yourself to nothing more than a mosquito. At one point you actually had posts worth reading.
Oct 16 2008 6:43PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
sorry, ive been writing papers and studying for tests all week (midterm hell week), and im trying to finish all my shit before my parents and gf get here to visit tonight. i promise the thoughtful posts will return, they just arent in my mental capacity right now hahahaha
Oct 16 2008 6:48PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
1. I have a degree in English. So no, it doesn't far exceed mine (outweigh, once again, was not the word you were looking for).
2. What I know about constitutional interpretation would be derived from the fact that I take constitutional law, in law school. I also take tax law, if that helps you at all.
3. If you had as much expertise as you claim in statutory interpretation you would know that choosing your words carefully is of the utmost importance, and saying "you know what I really meant" doesn't excuse your failure in this instance. If you're too arrogant to admit a simple "idiotic mistake", that would be another shortcoming attributable only to you.
4. I never made any mention of federalism, nor the division of specific taxation powers within the US, I merely corrected your statement that the text of the constitution is all that matters when determining legislative authority. That is an incredibly superficial view on the matter, and would be so irrespective of whether your thus-far underwhelming education exceeded mine or anyone else's.
5. The interpretation of a constitutional document is fundamentally different from interpretation of legislation, so all of this blathering about various instances of statutory interpretation (the phrase "we're back on par with legality in regards to federal legislation" being particularly meaningless) is neither here nor there.

For someone who professes in-depth knowledge of the law, you really didn't say much at all there. I know this is a website, but midless drivel does not cease to be mindless drivel by virtue of its author's citation of a couple of case names. Given your mere passing acquaintance with coherence, If I had been mistaken as to the thrust of what you were writing, I would argue that such a misunderstanding would be entirely forgivable.
Oct 16 2008 7:16PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748

  You are an arrogant prick. 

  If you are even nearly as educated as you claim to be, you wouldn't feel the need to clutter your sentences with completely unecessary word choices.  Wow, "implied context"?  That phrase is officially misused...and out of context. 

  It's obvious that you are attempting to come across as superior through your obnoxious verbosity, and instead, you have ended up looking like a fool with a thesaurus.

  Just shut up already.

Oct 16 2008 7:37PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Fantastic fail.
Oct 16 2008 7:48PM
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SteezyMcDizzle
Posts: 514 - Karma: 31
that was a joke!!! lol
Oct 17 2008 12:07AM
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dylhole
Posts: 2926 - Karma: 983

I think you've said enough..

You of all people should know there is a difference.

Oct 17 2008 1:33AM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
welp buddy thats how mr obama has explained it. no it wont be doubled but close enought to where its going to suck when it happens.
Oct 17 2008 10:48AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704

Haha, I would have assumed that someone who would take the time to correct someone elses grammar wouldn't add the gramatically incorrect -ly syllable onto ordinal numbers.  First, Second, Third.  Not firstly, secondly, thirdly.  Maybe if you're going to be an ass an do that you should be intelligent enough to know what your talking about.  Leave his grammar alone.

Oct 17 2008 11:17AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
You really need a copy of Fowler's... The notion that this is somehow gramatically incorrect is a lie propogated by high school teachers to students along with "never start a sentence with a preposition". For the stylistically incompetent, these "rules" are actually merely advisable. However, if you'll refer to the OED, you'll find that "firstly" as opposed to "first" has strong historical roots, and what was good enough for 18th century novelists is good enough for me. You can accuse my writing of being dated, and I will not take offense. But it isn't gramatically flawed.
Oct 17 2008 12:07PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Sorry, that should have been end a sentence with a preposition, whereas supposedly one never starts a sentence with a conjunction. Neither are rules.
Oct 17 2008 12:12PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
This thread is a joke someone delete it.
Oct 17 2008 12:38PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704

The word "thither" was once popular as well.  However, that doesn't change the fact that using it would make you sound like a fool.  My point is that your argument began with you being an ass to the kid, and it had nothing to do with the discussion.  I don't need to reference my copy of Fowler's, I already know how not to sound like an idiot.  "Firstly" is entirely unnecessary when one could simply sound intelligent and say "First".  That was my point.

Oct 17 2008 1:28PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
However, both are (once again) foolish and unorganized ways of writing.  If you are trying to convince me that your writing sounded better than the corrections I made (to make a point irrelevant to this discussion), then I think you should go waste your time elsewhere.  Perhaps you could spend it writing a column about how you are smart and everyone elses opinion is stupid and having it published for money.  That is your apparent attitude on the site anyway.
Oct 17 2008 1:31PM
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