Whats better anyway??

god this is getting rediculus....'whats best' 'my boards are better than yours' 'line sucks'

manufacturing wise...like who makes the best quality ski, thats one thing, but how many people out there really know that anyways???

ride what you like

when it breaks, then base your opinion

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

whos aramda??? new company??

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

Armada is brand new and they are going to be tough to be beat. Its what Tanner Hall uses.

Theres so many new companies springing up I was just curious what everyone liked.

whats liberty???? never heard of them
-------------------
'I wanna monster truck, Fuck the bus' - Matt Sterbenz after checkin out the Freezing Point bus.

'It's what Tanner Hall uses'
That makes them good, right?

I think 4Frnt sounds like the most customer-related company. 2 year warranty? Killer.

dude, i know what armada is....but aramda?? nevermind.

this is what im saying: the hype is huge. best of luck to all the new rider based companies, i wish them the best, hope they succeed, hope to work for them out of college.

yes, you want to generate profit being a new company, for various reasons, mostly so you can gaurantee you'll be back for a couple of years.

armada: hell of a ski, indestructable i hear. my shop stocks them. price range, decent for retailers and the status of the company. high otherwise, but what the hell, if people will pay it, charge it!

4frnt: good warranty deal, by far. but who really knows first hand about 4frnt....a dozen people who have rode them....maybe a few more now. will they hold up?? who knows. price range, for retailers, too high! the margin isnt good, plus theres online sales. for a first year company, too much $$ and not enough info. to back it up. i'll ride them sometime this year, and ill base my opinion on that. props to sterbenz, hell of a job man, best of luck hope you do well. even with my skepticism, ill put the trust in the midwesterner here.

siver cartel: definetly cool shit! great jump on merchandise quality, quanity, and change from last year. too expensive....holy shit....but, if people pay it, charge it.

dont get me wrong, i love and support all these companies. i know whats up. but all i see in here day in and day out is 'whats the best ski' 'those suck' 'mine are better' know what your talking about before opinions are thrown....i feel like im talking to a bunch of 12 year olds...who knows...i might be! haha

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

this is the last 'trash' and pissed off opinions im going to throw out, because newschoolers should be attracting people to the sport, not freakin' them out by ripping everyone apart.

here it is: tanner hall is the best and worst thing for skiing, and directly to all of us, the freeskiers.

he's (in general consensis) the best freeskier period. dude, his skiing is unlike any other, and he is definetly unreal. and he and a few others are generating sales beyond belief currently. not to mention making skiing cool again. but he's still a punk, and needs to grow up. and theres 100,000 tanner wannabes too. the general public doesnt know exactly what he's about....but eventually they might. thats a kick in the nuts to the industry and to freeskiing in general. society will think we're nothing more than a bunch of punkasses who know jack shit about anything.....society tags, its stupid, but they do....

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

I just like to throw questions out there and see what everyones opinion is.

I agree 4frnt has a great warranty, the best in the biz. I also heard (correct me if Im wrong) but I read that 4frnt was being manufactured by a tennis racket company. I think will make up for lost time though theres alot of people that think Armadas are to expensive. Maybe they are.

Armada was unknown three or four years ago just like 4frnt is now.

To the comment made before I dont like Armada the most because Tanner Hall uses them. I just think theyre good people and they're not all about $$$. They got in it to make a difference and thats exactly what theyre doing. Im willing to work with open minded people and in the ski industry sometimes those people are hard to come by.

yea, sorry, hey, didnt mean to come out as harsh as i did, im just really touchy on this issue...just add a few things....armada has been around for 3 years now, but mostly in beginning stages. manufacturing started only last year......4frnt and armada are just as expensive....and yes, they started it with dreams and continuation of the sport....but its like any other business....u gotta capitalize on what you have.....its generating thier fame to sales...

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

its a legitimate questions he asked, he didnt ask 'which ski is better' he asked 'Who makes the best ski??' who MAKES the better ski. as in which construction is the most durable and so forth. so this is a legitimate question that hsould be answered professionally by someone that actually knows something about this.

(not sayin that anyone that has posted in this thread doesnt know anything about this topic).


°SamDCaylor°

Poniverus

Yeah I understand. It seems that everyone thinks that theyre ski is the best and they may think that everyone elses just suck.

It goes without saying Tanner Hall is selling a bazillion skis. Especially after his performance at the X-games. Is he good for the sport?? Yes and no.
Yes in the way that I think he helped fuel the shot in the arm that skiing needed. If someone asked me who the best skiier would his name wouldnt come to mind because when I think of the 'best' skiiers I think of all different facets and not just in the park. If someone who is the best in the park that poses a different question.
I grew skiing in the late 70s and all threw the 80s before Tanner was knee high to a toadstool. In alot of ways I like what hes doing because he does what he thinks is right. I think thats really important. Not only that it spawned the birth of at least two new ski companies. I don't think its bad to capitalize on what you have if you think thats the right thing to do then more power to you.

I have a big beef with the corporate fat cats (K2, Atomic, Dynastar, etc) only because its all about $$$ for them and in a way theyre selling out. Theyre not in it for the sport of it but to see who sells the most skis.
I think going to change in the next few years with the birth of these new companies. It will be interesting to see what the future brings. I feel that skiing is bigger now that ever has been in the past.

all you did is throw out the names of all the new 'core' companies, you're just another slave to hype, there is more to skiing than just 'true to jibbing' companies, they all make quality skis, if they didn't they wouldn't be around, it's what companies work for you and wich don't, you're not gonna like every ski cause they're certain things you like and don't like subconciously, so you can't just come out and throw a bunch of brand names and say wich is best




Seize the carp

I agree.
Rossi and the rest of them wouldnt be around if they didnt make a quality product. I dont disagree with that. I think its more about being true to the sport than it is being true to the masses. If youre true to the sport you'll stay in it forever and never look back.

my answers to this question werent implying directly to baddieblue....it was my thoughts in general with everything dealing with this issue....SamCaylor....i consider myself pretty professional, considering ive been a tech/sales in the industry for quite a while now.... not to mention that this is what i go to school for (SAM), along with a business major. actually, i had a rep offer about a month ago. which i wont disclose from who for various reasons. i declined, being in my school position as of now. but i know my shit.

if u read my second post a little more, its dealing with my opinions on these rider based companies....not strictly describing the qualities of thier products, though it probably the biggest factor in the success of these companies.

of these companies: which ever ends up surviving in the long run, is probably going to end up in the same boat as all the super companies (rossi, k2, etc.) that is if they play thier cards right. they are probably going to have to manufacture skis other than twins, or have some absoulutly kickass merchandise (softgoods) division just to stay alive in the industry.

you look at percentages of cash flow and sales generation in the industry: give-or-take, about 7-8 percent of ALL cash is in the ski equipment/retail insutry, period. thats skis, boards(all hardgoods) and jackets, gloves, accesories, etc(all softgoods)-that % is at most.....so you break that down.....how many of all ski/snowboard/ sales in TOTAL are those of twintips???? not much, under 1 percent! thats a damn small percentage of ALL the money being generated in the entire ski industry goes to twintip sales......now, would you want to have a sole, twintip manufacturing market in the industry??? hell ya you would! so would i! but would i think about manufacturing or merchandising other things through my company?? yes, just to keep that business alive. you see Line doing that right now. they are paying Blizzard to manufacture thier non-twin ski. sell out?? yes and no. smart, definetly! they took a rough blow on the pocketbook with the binding, but that was probably the smartest move they made since starting the company. they will stay alive in my opinion. if they maintain or improve everything in a whole in other areas.

also, the ski industry is very small. it doesnt seem like it, but it is. in the last few years, annual revenue for the world ski industy was closest to that of Disney's film/movie division. not really all that much cash flow.

once again, i hope all these rider-based companies make it. best of luck to them. but they need to make some tough and up in coming decisions to possibly keep alive in the not so distant future.

all of this relys on outside influences also of course. marketing, trends, and shit, if freeskiing explodes on the level boarding did in the early 90s. they are set.

thats my intent.

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

ok so....i'll finally answer the original question. WHAT'S THE BEST MADE SKI?? manufacturing wise.

MY OPINION
(all these depend on what you want, performance, personal of course)

ALL AROUND NON-TWIN: dynastar. great performance ability in many levels. manufactured very well. durable.

BEST TWIN DURABILITY: armada, pretty tough ski.

BEST TWIN PERFORMANCE: scratch-public enemy. carves well if u want it to. holds up pretty well(depending on level of abuse) they have pop. they flex like a twin should (personal preferance). and all around kickass skis. (props to my bro ryan on the PE's)

above all. whatever ski. its gotta tune well. that all goes back to how its manufactured. well tuned ski-good ski. i dont want to have a pair of skies to throw away every year. tho it has happend with abuse!

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

Bling skiis for sure. i mean, who can beat diamond edges?


'ghostdragon is like milk. sometimes when it sits too long in thr fridge it gets crusty things around the cap that sometimes fall into your glass when your not careful.' - cj


'if you love something, fuck it in the ass...if it screams, cries and bleeds toss it in the dumpster...if anything else, you've got yourself a keeper' - Alpentalik

-Ayrton

I read in an earlier post, I believe it was by suom15, that the driving force for business is capitalism. Rather we like it or not this is true for every business involved in the ski industry or any industry for that matter. These two relatively new businesses focus they're projecting is that of keeping a business built for skiers owned and ran by skiers. The only problem I see is the money issue. These two companys will hopefully prosper and be able to expand their market, thus leading to greater revenue. Next thing you know we have another ski industry giant such as Dynastar, Salomon, etc... So in a sense they might seem down to Earth now in the first years of their business but money too easily corrupts. Hopefully these two companies will prove me wrong but WE all have seen this happen before. Who's to say it will be different.

As for the Tanner Hall issue...I can see everyones perspective of him. True, he has revitalized a dying ski industry and is a role model for many kids out there. But as with the past this could just be a trend. Thats what the sport is getting to...TRENDY.

Well that last post brings up an interesting question about capitalism. I definitely agree its all about money. At some time though, all businesses whether they start out big or small decide to go mainstream.
Theres businesses that are very large but it doesnt necessarily mean they are a sell out. I dont foresee the whole twintip ski craze as a trend. I think a new niche will be created in the industry to show theyre here to stay.

I dont see anything wrong with what Line did giving the production of another model to Blizzard. I just think thats good business. Line sticks to what theyre good at and Blizzard does their thing and everyones happy. I heard that Ford does the same thing with their small truck (the Ranger) I guess they pay Mazda to make that truck for them. I would think after a period of time of having another company producing something for you that you would be able to take over production on your own.

The Best Ski??? Thats a good question. 4frnt has alot of hype behind them and they maybe the next Armada. With a two year warranty its going to be tough to match.
For all around skiing I think the best ski is Salomon.

I think Baddieblue you misunderstood me, I guess I could have written it a little bit clearer too. I wasn't saying that twin tips and freeskiing in general was a trend. I definently agree that it's here to stay.

The sport has made amazing progress. I remember probably 8 or 9 years ago a place I went to in New Mexico called Red River had a park and the sign read 'board at your own risk...snowboarders only'. From this point the whole freeskiing scene has advanced significantly. I also think this was the snowboarders answer to Taos' no snowbaording policy since Taos is less than 10 miles away as the crow fly's, maybe and hour's drive away. Besides that, the fact that snowboard parks are now called terrain parks and some places have ski only parks. Freeskiing has progressed so much faster than anyone ever thought and there is virtually no limit for it. It's just sad now to see some of the original pioneers being overshadowed by kids half their age...but hey it's progression and needed in order for the sport to survive...

Hey point well taken.

The whole snowboarding thing brings up an intresting issue. In the beginning some resorts were saying no snowboarders, skiiers only. I grew up skiing Sun Valley area and I think they still dont have a park yet. I heard theyre getting one this year though. Theres only a couple areas where snowboarders arent allowed, Park City for one and theres a couple more.

As much as I might hate to admit it you're crazy if you dont comform to the trend to some degree. If you dont youll get brushed aside and forgotten about.

baddieblue, no offense-
but your posts on this topic is BULLSHIT.
1. Park City DOES allow snowboarders. In fact, last years park/pipe were designed by JP Walker along with some otehr snowboarders. There were NO skiers in the process of making the park- and let me tell you: it was the best park utah had last year.
2. It was THE MAINSTREAM COMPANIES(K2,ROSSIGNOL, ETC) that have progressed this sport that we all enjoy. Actaully the riders helped too, but with the companies this sport would suck. Fist off, these companies made some of the best skis of all time such as the original 1080, and the Enemy. Now these companies are STILL making kickass skis(Public Enemy, Seth Pistol, Scratch). So before you start dissing on these companies, think about what they have brought you.

On another matter: Tanner Hall.
Now, I have skied with Tanner about 20-25 times, in fact he is dating my best friend's sister. Tanner Hall has done ALOT for this sport. HE hasn't done anything bad- it's those fucking tanner posers that make this sport shit. Tanner Hall is good, and he KNOWS it. Hes cocky, but he isn't the asswhole that people think he is.

Also, Armada is HELLA overrated. Give they are good skis, but there isn't anything special about them. Now 4frnts are great due to their warranty and build of the ski. For the best twin this year, i would say either the Trouble maker(sadly, not very durable along with a shitty warranty), the Public Enemy(DAMN Good warranty. No questions asked), or the new Fujative. My friend has gotten to ride a pair that Pep let him borrow and he says they are great. he thinks that the PE is a better park ski due to the stiffer tail.

Persian, read my posts again. i know my feelings on stuff, but what im thinking and how it comes out on paper is different. im not dissing those companies man......their corporate of course...thats another story....if any dissing is goin anywhere, its towards the twin based rider-based companies.....
who the hell knows who you are talking to on here, im sick of arguing my points of view, its rediculus on here....even though i havent been the most pleasent on this topic....newschoolers has just turned into egotistical shit talking, its fuckin gay at that....im not making references to any of you guys, or not questioning your knowlegde, and this hasnt really even gotten to be a heated argument, i just DONT want to even get into this bullshit at all, its gay..... greatest signature ive seen on here, even though its a little distasteful, makes sooo much sence and ill stand by this...

'shit talking on a computer is like the special olympics....even if you win, your still retarded.'

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

you sir talk to much and this is hurting my head. the guy asked a question adn doesnt want to know about capitalism and the other isms... jsut answer the question, if your gonna say something long jsut click back. especially if it has nothig nto do with the TOPIC

XXXX-Lego Maniac-XXXX

Persian no offense but what you said was total Bullshit!!
I never dissed on any companies. When I put the names in I didnt purposely leave out Rossi, Dynastar or K2 etc. I just put in the names at random.
Its fine with me if you PE the best hey I dont have a problem with that. I learned to ski on K2 way before armada, faction and 4frnt were ever around.
In fact I know a guy that just recently got sponsored by Dynastar and posed in Powder.
Everybody has their own opinion on what they think is the best or what they think SUCKS.

I agree that the big corporate companies got skiing where it is right now. I mean Tanner Hall skiied Rossis at one time. All I was trying to say is that if these big companies dont roll with the punches they'll get left behind.
Maybe Armada is overrated. They have some big names behind them but some say theyre to expensive.
I havent tried 4frnt but maybe they will take the top spot this year. It remains to be seen.

I take back what I said about Park City I must have gotten them confused with another resort.

Calgary.....u obviously dont know why i made the points i have considering the starting question...if you had the slightest idea about anything in the ski world, you wouldnt have said what you would....but as for that, i dont care...i'll be the one working in the industry, and you will be the one fueling it...so...thats it, and im officially out.

MIDWESTSKIER
suomi@midwestskier.com

CASANOVA FREERIDE
Casanova's Ski and Board Shop
601 Apache Dr.
Wakefield, MI 49968
(906) 224-3231

who's kiddin' who?

What ski should I get? Im thinking about the armada ar5 the new 4frnt the rossignol scratch, the k2 public enemy, the dynastar concept and the 1080? What do you think?
|Carl F-G|
____________________
Accept no one's defitnition of your life: Define your self. Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
- Terrible One

Sorry baddieBlue. I have made mistakes. I reccomend the PE over the trouble maker due to K2's warrranty. K2 has a great warranty. But the Tm has AMAZING pop, greater than anyother twin. But alot of people are saying that Dynastars aren't very durable
------------------
'Good Food, Good Meat. Good Got Let's eat!'

when i filled out the ns survey i suggested a separate forum for 'this ski' vs 'that ski' threads





Abba Zabba, you my only friend

this topic has turnerd out some good debates. but ultimatly the questions is which company makes the best skis. its very hard to make a comparison between every company. but i would be willing to bet that 4frnt will have some of the best constructed skis this year. I don't want to ramble too much so i will just say that much/





'well it looks like we fucked up and killed the only son of god because we're fucking gay like gay porn'

Yeah I agree for sure. I think that the Rossi Scratch or the 4frnt would be ski of choice. Depending on your wallet too. I haven't used the TM's so I dont know what theyre like. Ive heard good things about the Mad trix as well. I havent tried those either.

What do you guys think?? The PE is a good choice with the excpection of the delamming in the tip. Thats not a good thing.

I think the Armadas are all plastic feeling. I like the 4FRNTs and the Liberty skis. I don't much like last year's graphics, but I do like the construction and the new prototypes that I have seen in Canada and in Colorado. I think the PE de-lam is a big problem. The good news is that there's a bunch of good shit coming out of the small companies, and they're not really fighting against each other, but against the mega-mills like Salomon, Rossi, and Volkl (and others).

I'd support any of the small guys, Liberty, 4FRNT, even Armada (not Line) way before the big guys.