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Vice Presidential Debate

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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
I know it's not till Thursday but I'm already gearing up for one of the best events of the year.

I don't care what your party affiliation but the fact is that Biden is so much more ready for this than Palin. It's going to be a disaster. So who's making popcorn and watching the spectacle with me?

Oh and feel free to start a big political argument here. I know someone will.

Sep 29 2008 4:12PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
The election is pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point, I think. The Conservatives will retain a minority government and the Liberals will lose a few seats because Dion has failed miserably as a leader. The only way for them to rebound is to depart significantly from the old Trudeau style of running the party by nominating Michael Ignatieff. Jack Layton is running a brilliant campaign and consequently the NDP is likely to pick up many of the seats the liberals lose and probably take one or two close races from the conservatives due to economic difficulties. But overall, we already know how this one's going to turn out, whereas the American race could go one of two extremely different directions.

Now, if the Conservatives win a majority government up here, you'll see me start worrying.
Oct 3 2008 12:38AM
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Reptar.
Posts: 1509 - Karma: 34
I Thought Paling did extraordinary!
I wouldn't say she "won" it, but I felt like after that she got some cred.
She really just talked to the people, not argued, but just talked.

And the mod was unbiased. I thought she was gonna try to stump palin with some trivia, but she was totally fair.
Oct 3 2008 12:51AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
 bankruptcy court adjusting the principal of a mortgage ? WTF????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


dam i need Barack to really "dive deep" into that one.......
Oct 3 2008 1:33AM
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g.muelheims
Posts: 457 - Karma: 110
CNN, Communist News Network anyone...
Oct 3 2008 1:51AM
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shredwards
Posts: 417 - Karma: 68
wow does she remind you of anyone?
starts with an orge ends with a wbush
Oct 3 2008 1:55AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 32
^bush in a skirt?
Oct 3 2008 1:57AM
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shredwards
Posts: 417 - Karma: 68
^ who says bush doesnt wear skirts?
Oct 3 2008 2:03AM
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edmonton_skier
Posts: 3210 - Karma: 110
right... with idiots like glen beck and Nancy Grace on there, sometimes i think im on fox.... so no.

not to mention its a poll... as in people actually go on and click one option or the other so... ill give you a minute to think it through.
Oct 3 2008 2:11AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 32
don't forget good ol' lou dobbs. fuck I hate lou dobbs.
Oct 3 2008 2:15AM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12811 - Karma: 1,966
umm, arguing is a key part of debating, instead, she blatantly avoided confrontation over many points that biden was putting against her and mccain's stance.

did she exceed my expectations? yes, she was coached very well over many points, especially reguarding foreign policy. did she win? hahahahaha, no, not even close.
Oct 3 2008 2:20AM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
She set the bar pretty low coming into this debate.

She also did fine she was not exciting nor a disaster.

However the bigger problem I see in politics is this idea that if you are from a small town you are somewhat more capable of leadership. The majority of people in this country live in cities. The best and brightest people live and work in cities, they are cultural melting pots, epicenters for higher education, and the nexus of science and technology. Cities are the ultimate human invention, millions of people living side by side, sharing space, energy, resources.

The idea that growing up in a small town makes you morally superior to someone from a city is laughable. Do people think that because you live in a big city you go through your life like a empty shell wandering around not communicating with anyone? I would venture to say that people from big cities not only are better communicators but have many more people that they deal with on a daily basis. People in apartment buildings know their neighbors, coworkers, the grocer.

Presidents and elected officials should be articulate, intelligent, and regal. They should not be normal people. Normal people are not capable of leading the most powerful country on earth. Normal is not the presidency or vice-presidency, these people should be the most educated people in the country. Can you think of another position in this country that should require a more sterling resume?

I feel like Palin is a slap in the face to every person that help build this county, she is barely intelligent enough to manage a pastry shop much less this country. If for any reason she is ever in a position of power she will be little more than a puppet. She is already so over coached it is transparent.

This goes for the dems to but to a much less degree.

And Maverick! What the fuck is that? Why is she a maverick? because she lives in Alaska?

And another think about her, she knows nothing of the oil industry, I worked for Pioneer in Alaska for 3 months this summer and everything that she has done in Alaska is because oil companies told her what to do. She has no authority and no knowledge of either ANWAR or the slope. Oil companies walk all over her office I know I worked for one. The BLM has a hell of a lot more to do with the reform than she does. And the bull shit about the bridge to no where what a fool.

Sorry I'm rambling but you get the point peace.
Oct 3 2008 2:50AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 32
Thanks so much for bringing this up. Anyone who has read the United States Constitution can clearly see it was not written by the common folk of their time.
Oct 3 2008 4:12AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
oh yeah?   what percentage of people who watched that were polled are democrats? 
Oct 3 2008 6:49AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
and whats makes you so right with your opinions?



Oct 3 2008 6:52AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
Right..  I forgot Benjamin Franklin took readings from around the world.

I believed that we would be out of oil and we all would be choking in pollutionl by now when I was your age.  At least thats what they were teaching me, then.
Oct 3 2008 6:56AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,360
Palin asked a question about Nuclear weapons,

"Can i talk about afghanistan?, its the next bullet on my organizer"

Oct 3 2008 8:35AM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
It still didnt give a break down of who was interviewed,,,,republicans, democrats or undecided. Until you have that, the poll is bogus.
Oct 3 2008 9:39AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I do not understand why Palin is the center of 95% of all discussions these days.
Oct 3 2008 9:53AM
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BryanGallant
Posts: 689 - Karma: 142
With Senator Biden's experience and knowledge of politics, I believe he nailed Govenor Palin to the wall on some issues to where she skirted around them and talked about other issues than the one on hand. I know a few other people cited this above. Another thing that worries me about Govenor Palin and not so much about Biden, is her knowledge of foriegn policies. You could also tell by her body language when Senator Biden was going along with the accusations of Senator Obama, just to add in some outrageous fact about John McCain, she was absolutely flustered with the astounding facts Senator Biden was throwing back at her. Senator Biden was obviously ready for this debate and did his homework. Although Govenor Palin, with her expectations so low, actually didn't do that bad of a job on the debate most of the time. Plus she's kinda hot in a way.
Oct 3 2008 10:00AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
MSNBC showcases what Biden got wrong and what Palin got wrong.  LINK
Oct 3 2008 10:18AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
guy's who gives a rats ass about who won...



THIS IS FUCKING SCARY! 

adjusting the principal????!@?!?!?!?!@?>#@!!@?#!@?# 



dammit, the only way he is going to win (im convinced, HE WILL WIN) is by appealing to the lowest common denominator and class warfare....


then Biden goes off on "FAIR" Biden is SCARY!


Oct 3 2008 11:04AM
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beer.
Posts: 3096 - Karma: 44
it is fair.

when middle-class people in this country are struggling, repealing bush's tax cuts to the top 2 percent of america is fair.

sorry.  after reading your thread where you complain about taxes, it just seems like you're a little bitch.  I have to pay taxes, too.  quit your whining.  if i made 300k per year, I really wouldn't care about paying a few more Gs for taxes, because I'd have more money than I'd know what to do with.  you don't even make close to that, and you identify with people that do for some reason.
Oct 3 2008 11:23AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
BULLSHIT.............. !   






Oct 3 2008 11:34AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
NO ITS NOT.


did you work for THEIR MONEY?

NO


did i work for THEIR MONEY?

NO.


so why do these people have a claim to THEIR MONEY! ? 

either way, its fucking BULLLSHIT class warfare. 


i dont mind paying taxes, really i dont, but some people are getting shafted on taxes.

o and if you dont mind higher taxes, send the feds a check!

its amazing how you see all these people complain about having "TO MUCH" money, while thats an easy problem to fix, GIVE IT AWAY!

fuck, dont even get me started, the "middle class" (40 million Americans) dont pay fed income taxes!


Oct 3 2008 11:47AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
you know whats up and so did Winston Churchill.  It so ironic to read so many of the posts and know that I was a starry eyed liberal at one time.
Oct 3 2008 11:51AM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
So you don't think that people that make more money should pay more taxes Papa?
And Im talking Net income, not gross
Oct 3 2008 12:15PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
What sort of explanation can you give for the ever  increasing disparity between rich and poor?
What do you call the people like Kennith Lay, the Adelphia Son and Father?  What to do you call CEO's that take huge rewards while laying off 1,000's of employees?

Explain to me how you justify the actions of the corrupt corporate heads and say that they are entitled to the money they 'earn'


I understand that you can't just take from those who rightfully earned something, but if they stole it i'm all for getting Sherwood forest on your ass.
Oct 3 2008 12:21PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
Here is how taxes work. Everyone is taxed the same on their amount of money. For example if you make 100k and the cut off is 50k you are paying that same percentage on your 50k that everyone is.

That to me is fair. Republicans forget that we live in a society. As greedy as you want to be and put your trust in the free market you have to respect this society. We all live in it and it once was a great model. We had a gigantic middle class, the country was thriving.

You are not the only one with a career. I spent 6 years in college and I too have a job and pay taxes. Taxes are part of our society and our duty to not only complain and whine about them but to PAY THEM.

Not everyone in this society can be millionaires. We need people to do landscaping, be waiters, make beds, and in my opinion they deserve to have health care and the ability to live a happy life. Money isn't everything.

Look at what we have become we are a dying society because no one cares to support it. They would rather exploit it and run away with anything that isn't nailed down.

It just like the people who put "Support the troops" on their car. Ok, sounds good so what does that mean? Are you going support senate bills? Donate money? Work for veteran health care? Pay higher taxes?..... Nah I thought I would just put the bumper sticker on my car and then call liberals communists.

Look here is the bottom line. You are selfish and I don't blame you. Our government squanders most of its money. But instead of taking the every man for himself approach how about trying to fix things.

There are plenty of examples. Look at Norway the people there are the middle class. There is a tiny upper class and an even smaller lower class. And everyone there is far richer than the average person in the US. They all have health care and their education system us superb. Oh and they pay some of the highest taxes in the world.

If you were to say it never works and it never has worked I would believe you if there were not countless examples.
Oct 3 2008 12:26PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ok tell me, how many executives do you know that are like this?

sure there are bad apples, but the good apples VASTLY out number the bad ones.

the ones in the news are.... because  do you think the news would report an executive doing the right thing? HELL NO. 

ALL the executives i know (personally know)  CARE deeply about their employees. because without the employee there is nothing.... 



Oct 3 2008 12:27PM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
IFirst and foremost I must say that Palin did exceed my expectations.  Going into this I was pretty much expecting a 90-10 win for Biden.  He only managed a 65-35 victory.  But then again I can pretty much base a lot of palin's success in this debate from the questions asked and the bland scripted responses she gave.  Freshman year I had a poli sci professor that had the best analogy for a debate.  You can pull an all-nighter studying before a test, and you might score an A, but does that A make you qualified in the subject matter?  Or did you just learn the material for the exam, and will most likely forget it soon?

Debating is all about rhetoric and making clear points.  Charisma is necessary but it can only get you so far.  Palin didn't "fail" the debate by any stretch of the imagination, but then again she didn't do extraordinarily well either.  In the theme of grading I'd give her a C-C+.  She was solid on all the points she was trying to make... but here's the big BUT.  But she would always attempt to skirt back to her own comfort zone of subject matter.  I'm not sure if she answered a single question with 100% clarity. 


Seriously... you mean the republicans couldn't throw Karl Rove a few more bucks for some good political insight in this election... I really want to meet the team of idiots who decided Sarah Palin was the best choice for a VP candidate in the republican party.  Even as a democrat, i respect McCain and his politics.  I dont agree with all of them, but he is still a respectable candidate for president.  Sarah Palin is a joke.









Oct 3 2008 12:27PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ok back to the debate.



adjusting mortgage principals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??!?@?!?@?!#@?!@#?


fuck!@



im gonna go out and buy a house now!
Oct 3 2008 12:33PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
YOU, MY FRIEND ARE AN IDIOT!

BUMPER STICKERS ARE $1 ON HIS SITE

CHECK THE LINK HERE:

http://www.johnmccain08store.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=MPS-BS2

LEARN HOW TO USE THE INTERNET!
Oct 3 2008 12:37PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
I lose 40% of my money to taxes of all sorts.  I just don't want to see 50%  capiche.. ? 

You guys will all understand when you watch the tax rate go up year after year after year........
Oct 3 2008 12:57PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
Click for larger image
Oct 3 2008 1:00PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,150
Do you even know where that phrase comes from?

I think in the beginning when she asked if she could call him "joe" it was so that she could later use this line. Which I think was a brilliant line.

Shoeless Joe Jackson was a beloved baseball player, that let the country down by participating in the white sox scandal...she was drawing a subtle reference.
Oct 3 2008 1:01PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Why do you feel it's necessary to put twelve line spaces in a two sentence post? You didn't need to take up a third of a page to say absolutely nothing. You seem to think that your posts will make a bigger impact if there's more white space, more capital letters, and more exclamation points. You sound like a tool. Quit that.
Oct 3 2008 1:20PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
o noes. i am so sorry to have offended the "post police" i beg for your most divine forgiveness. I will abstain from any more offensive posts due to the nature of the SPACING. Again, i am most sorry and beg for your forgiveness.




Oct 3 2008 1:26PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
i still think that when that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer it constitutes as evidence for the inequality of the system.

if earning a profit was an equal opportunity, how do you account for this?


Oct 3 2008 1:27PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
prove it.

you cant.

maybe if you said "some rich are getting richer" "some poor are getting poorer" but to say the it is only the rich moving forward in this society, is absolutely ridicules.
Oct 3 2008 1:30PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=poverty+gap+in+america&btnG=Google+Search

Is it really news to you?



Oct 3 2008 1:33PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
you do not know what you are talking about. And from what I have seen you lack the intelligence to become part of the upper class or perhaps, if we continue on this path, the middle class. So this type of trend should really bother you. Because if the middle class disappears you will be in the lower class.
Oct 3 2008 1:35PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
sorry, due to the nature of the format of your post it is rendered irrelevant.  link it up.


 according to some mods "copy paste" is not allowed. write your own shit.
Oct 3 2008 1:37PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
FUCK OFF.

ok now down to business.

when "pface" or what ever the hell is name is, said that the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getter poorer, that may be true in some circumstances. however to say that the poor can not move into a more favorable place in the world..... GOING UP. is absolutely ridicules.
Oct 3 2008 1:41PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
http://www.newwork.com/Pages/Opinion/Raynor/Middle%20Class.html

sorry thought I posted the link.

And my name is prounced like "Tay Sh" like the tay in taylor and the sh in shut the door.

And there is a disparity in the middle class. The rich class is shrinking and becoming more rich and the poor class is getting bigger and poorer. that was the purpose of that post. And I never intended to pretend that that was my writing.
Oct 3 2008 1:50PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
I never said that it is impossible for poor people to become rich just that the distribution of people is changing.

we are obviously not in a caste system but we are becoming more of a society of the have and the have nots.
Oct 3 2008 1:52PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
haha thanks for the phonics lesson.

when i said "Pface" i was talking to him, thats who my argument was with until you jumped in....







Oct 3 2008 1:55PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
speak and spell bitch.
Oct 3 2008 2:02PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
well what else am i supposed to think when you go into your name?


i have never typed, or questioned, or even gotten your name wrong. have i?

so when you go "my name is this" what else am i supposed to think other than you were referring to the post i made right above it, where i admitted not knowing someone's name?

sorry if you feel "hurt" but atleast  i never told you. "you are to stupid to get out of the middle class" (or basically)





Oct 3 2008 2:07PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hahahahahah what the fuck happened to this thread?

tasche he wasnt fucking talking to you
Oct 3 2008 2:08PM
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