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Presidential Debate

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natedogg789435
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 9
I suppose since i'm not going to be around for and after the debate tonite (at a party). may as well start the inevitable thread on it. have at it...
Sep 26 2008 8:16PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Last one, I promise.

Click for larger image
Sep 26 2008 10:55PM
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GreenStezz
Posts: 3570 - Karma: 717
hahahaha YEAHHH BOOOYYYYYYY.......
Sep 26 2008 10:56PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
mccain killed it with the foreign policy stuff with the name drops and the "you don't understand" line. That was smart right there but Obama came back pretty well. I feel like Obama will get back at McCain in future debates this was definitely a good first debate though.
Sep 26 2008 10:57PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
that is not correct
Sep 26 2008 10:59PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
did anyone else notice Obama called McCain "John" and McCain referred  to Obama as "senator obama"
Sep 26 2008 10:59PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i feel like with as far down as McCain was before this debate he needed to hit it outta the park to really make up. He didnt. it was pretty damn close. and this is the one debate that he can really dominate on, foreign policy. but it will be interesting to see the next 2, and the vp debate
Sep 26 2008 11:00PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
IMO Barack looked SCARED about that....


Sep 26 2008 11:01PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
It pretty much is. At least in any country I would want to move to.

A lot of europe, they can't hire US citizens unless they can prove that that person has a skill that no one with in the EU has.

So unless I start my own business, I'm screwed there.

I checked into teaching English in Europe, even with that they look to the EU first, then Canada and Australia/NZ.

I suppose I could go to South America, but something tells me I won't be able to make enough money there to cover my living expenses and student loans. Same goes for Japan. The teach English in Japan thing doesn't cover enough to pay off loans.

I haven't looked into south africa yet.

One thing that also seems to be getting in the way, (maybe I'm not understanding this right) but your first year in another country, you have to pay that countries taxes as well as US income taxes. Could you imagine something like that in Norway? Almost your entire income would be gone, but you would have free health care and education.

I could always try to become a mail order bride. I wonder if they have those coming from the US.
Sep 26 2008 11:24PM
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sowstochd
Posts: 1518 - Karma: 59
most irrelevant statement goes to sen. McCain on the height comparison between N/S Koreans. Most naive and overall ridiculous statement goes to sen. Obama on authorizing the use of military force against Pakistan. I am so happy McCain called him out on this one, seriously Obama, you never say you're going to threaten the sovereignty of another nation publicly, particularly one that has nuclear weapons, then he talks about the reason why we're losing the War on Terror is b/c we aren't keeping our eye on the prize...
Sep 26 2008 11:42PM
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bikerocker
Posts: 1427 - Karma: 461
that debate was like watching the special olympics.  except instead of gettting a medal the winer gets to rule the country.

Neither of them have any idea what to do with the nearly 2 trillion dollars forcasted to be spent on the current financial crisis.
Obama wants to go to war against the "terrorists" living in caves, but is going to invade pakistan to do it.
he wants to end the war in iraq, but just move it back to afghanistan?  wtf?

mccain might as well have spent the entire time calling obama a noob.  He was pretty on the ball for being old...  but a spending freeze on everything but defense?  really?  FUCK EDUCATION? not like we need to learn or anything...

lets bring back ron paul or kucinich.


Sep 26 2008 11:43PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
The lesson learned from Iraq was that "You can't have a failed strategy... that... leads us towards defeat."

Wow.

Thanks for that John. That was some depth there. Your foreign policy mastermind, ladies and gentlemen.

That being said, I think John McCain won this debate, not by a huge margin, but Obama was a bit TOO much of a nice guy and ceded the floor to him, whereas McCain rambled on and on and basically filibustered some of his responses. Obama referred to McCain as John (and once, Tom, for some reason), McCain didn't reciprocate. Obama addressed McCain, looked at him while he was talking to him, McCain scowled and looked forward over his podium. If Obama won anything tonight, it was the "I don't come across as a douchebag" part of the debate, and I think his answers on foreign policy demonstrated some depth of knowledge and that he has a few ideas about what needs to be done overseas. Where he lost was in responding to McCain's attacks on him more than he attacked McCain.

By the way, I counted six separate occasions where McCain crossed the line from shading the truth to outright lying... Obama tried to point that out, but came across like he was complaining, and of course the average American isn't going to take the time to research. I thought the biggest loser of the debate was the moderator for just letting McCain get away with it: if you make a statement that simply isn't true, the other side gets to rebut that IMMEDIATELY, you don't get to keep rambling for 3 more minutes to bury that cheap shot in other points.
Sep 26 2008 11:43PM
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sowstochd
Posts: 1518 - Karma: 59
I wonder what the "..."'s in your quote means.
Sep 26 2008 11:50PM
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sowstochd
Posts: 1518 - Karma: 59
On education, we arguably spend more money on education than any other countries, the issue is not money. No matter how many dollars we throw at our education system it isn't going to discipline the students, who reluctantly go to school. Look at Japan for example, they have outdated classrooms yet their students excel in departments that our students don't It's not the quantity of dollars in the school's budget, it's the quality of the education, and it needs to be fixed in some way other than money.
Sep 26 2008 11:54PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Blame society then. Our children have been steadily dropping compared to the rest of the world for a long time now. Education needs reform (NOT No Child Left Behind, great way to make the problems WORSE), and its going to take a new and reformed education policy and even social change (How many rich families would choose public school over private?) to get it back on track.

We've seen students from other countries come to America to learn. But we'll soon see that the brightest and best from other countries will decide to educate themselves in their own country as our system continues to slide.
Sep 27 2008 12:22AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Pauses. That was the whole quote. I couldn't believe it. His lesson from Iraq was WHAT?

Anyway watching post-debate commentary I note that the pundits agree with me, and the american people don't. Apparently most of the commentators thought that Obama needed to hammer McCain a lot harder on the current crappy state of the economy in the country, mortgage rates, unemployment rates, layoffs, the bleak reality, and just ignore this crap about earmarks. Personally I would've liked to see him challege McCain even more than he did given that McCain completely failed to address him. "John, what's the unemployment rate in this country compared to 8 years ago? What's the deficit?" etc... The format allowed them to address each other, and he should've done more than that.

Current polls show Obama winning in just about every category, though, except for among men, where McCain lead 46-43.
Sep 27 2008 12:38AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 32
I guess we will see if he actually does push McCain harder during the last debate which has more of a domestic policy focus, all in all I thought Obama did pretty well explaining his positions tonight considering he was supposed to be at a disadvantage with a foreign policy focus.  One thing I picked up on right away is that McCain needs to work on his composure for the next two debates, When Obama spoke right off the bat he was often looking directly into the camera, or directly at McCain when he was responding to him.  McCain seemed to "hide" behind the podium a bit if that's what you want to call it.  During such a enormous media event like this, little things like that are pretty important.
Sep 27 2008 1:19AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
bonus points.

thanks
Sep 27 2008 1:24AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
we started the night thinking it would be a "democrats drink everytime obama says "the past 8 years' type crap" and republicans drink everytime mccain says "maverick" or "independence on foreign oil" type crap.

they both sucked at the fiscal solution questions.  both said it was important and must be taken seriously.  with funny lines such as:
mccain: line items are a gateway drug to pork barrel spending
obama: the republicans introduced an orgy of spending

however it actually turned to a good debate in the second half
 
Sep 27 2008 2:31AM
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aurora.
Posts: 1169 - Karma: 104
yeah agreed....i dont think mccain "won" this debate....but i think he showed a lot of people that obama can't just blow him out of the water.....that being said...i was a little dissapointed with obama and thought he could have attacked a lot more....i think one of his strongest points was about afghanistan and the fact that we've neglected it....his argument for that was almost infallible....

but on the other points he just let mccain ramble and it undercut what he was trying to say....overall i think it was okay for both of the candidates....im hoping that some undecideds will like what they see in obama after that debate....but it wouldnt surprise me if an equal amount of undecideds decide on mccain....hopefully the other debates will be a little more decisive and eventful.
Sep 27 2008 2:43AM
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sowstochd
Posts: 1518 - Karma: 59
neither won the debate, but I think McCain won the reaction.
Sep 27 2008 11:16AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
most of those are restrictions made by other countries. In fact the only one that that is in any way created by the US government is the taxes. And no shit, you pay taxes to the country of your citizenship and the country you live in. However if you were to drop your American citizenship in favor of another countries then no you would not have to pay American taxes.
Sep 27 2008 11:45AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
So here's a new question: Obama agreed with John McCain about 10 times during the debate. Immediately afterwards, Republicans re-cut that to make  a new ad showing Obama saying "John is absolutely right" over and over. So the question is, is that REALLY an effective ad in McCain's favour as far as the electorate is concerned? Will they think "Clearly Obama thinks we should all vote for McCain since he thinks McCain is absolutely right on so many things." Or will they instead look at that and think, "What do you know, Obama's a pretty level-headed guy... he's willing to acknowledge areas of common ground even when he disagrees with someone. That's a bipartisan attitude, this McCain guy is a partisan jackass."

How effective do you think that will be?


Sep 27 2008 11:48AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
CNN Post Debate Poll
Overall: Obama 51% McCain 38%
Men: Obama 43% McCain 46%
Women: Obama 59% McCain 31%
Exceeded our expectations: Obama 57% McCain 60%
Failed to meet expectations: Obama 20% McCain 20%
National Security: Obama 45% McCain 49%
The Economy: Obama 58% McCain 37%
Would you be comfortable with X as president: Obama 68% McCain 66%

However, note that apparently more Democrats WATCHED the debate than Republicans, though
about 1/3 of viewership identified themselves as independents.

CBS News Poll of Undecided Voters:
Overall: Obama 40% McCain 22% Tie 38%
The Economy: Obama 68% McCain 41%
Iraq: Obama 49% McCain 55%

There was a Fox News poll which also had Obama with the win, but specific numbers were
not posted (I wonder why).
Sep 27 2008 11:56AM
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drumbumocdp
Posts: 3229 - Karma: 1,098
Obama had McCain beat for sure. i cant wait for the VP debate. palin is an idiot and bydon is gunna own her.
Sep 27 2008 12:06PM
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bermbuster49
Posts: 7445 - Karma: 90
well good..because i always base my vote off of that.  Its really a big deal to me....

/sarcasm
Sep 27 2008 12:11PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
seeing as how the President does become the spokesperson of the country, you should base your vote off of that, not 100% of your vote but it should be considered.
Sep 27 2008 12:15PM
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hellomynameisjef
Posts: 5794 - Karma: 167
well i watched it, and just to affirm everybodies thoughts, the guy that went to harvard law (obama) won. mcain was dodging questions lft and right by talking about how he was a war hero, and obama preesented multiple plans to bailout the economy, and stop the iraq war

FUCK MCANT
Sep 27 2008 12:36PM
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mellifluous
Posts: 1682 - Karma: 68
obamas smile kinda creeps me out
Sep 27 2008 4:06PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
you're a fool, what makes you think any other country is some sort of Nirvana?

























Sep 27 2008 4:53PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
They both were about equal during the economic part of things, and mccain was a little better off as far as foreign policy. Pretty much a stalemate
Sep 27 2008 4:55PM
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DANETRON
Posts: 6671 - Karma: 137
ha "bydon"
Sep 27 2008 5:01PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
funny how most laypeople put obama as taking it as a landslide yet most news sources state either a stalemate or mccain with a hair-thin advantage in the foreign policy part of things, shows how much the average person favors obama.
Sep 27 2008 5:31PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
I don't but right now I can't find a job that pays enough to afford the basic costs of living and my student loans.

If I could go to a place where the currency was stronger; Let's say the Euro. I would have my lack of health care situation taken care of and any extra money I had would be double.

I learned that for many things, in the US, things were 3 to 5 times cheaper. But they couldn't understand that I was only making $10 an hour. They said I would have been making the equivalent of about $35 an hour there.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't mind more socialized services. After meeting so many people my age from abroad that don't have to worry about paying for college or getting student loans or how they are going to pay for their wisdom teeth to be removed. And no, it isn't cause they come from wealthy families. My friend Bente just started College which is free for her to attend, she has the same job as her dad building furniture and making a lower income, but she has serious issues with her shoulder but doesnt have to worry about it cause the surgery isn't going to cost her anything.

My dad is about to get laid off, neither of us have health insurance, i have $40,000 debt from school and I think the war was a horrible horrible idea. So yeah, I'ld like to be a citizen of another country right now.
Sep 27 2008 6:13PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
what did you graduate with a degree in?

40k in the hole, dam......
Sep 27 2008 8:11PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I lived in Europe for 5 years and it's fucking expensive.  Good luck with that plan.  Honestly if you have a college degree and can't make more than $10 an hour I don't know what you expect to do in another country with an entirely different culture.
Sep 27 2008 10:23PM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
For sure man. And not a very good attitude to have either. "I cant find a job that pays enough so im just going to jump to a different country."

And has healthcare, Im happy with americas, its competitive and we always have the best of the best due to it. I heard a stat somewhere that Ohio has more cat scan machines than all of great Britain. And ive had three surgeries, broken bones, etc. And never had to pay for any of it here. (and yes Im 18 and on my own). Ive also had a friends dad die in Ireland due to waiting to get his surgery, but due to the slow system he never got it and died.
Sep 28 2008 12:50AM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
If I could have citizenship in another country, I'ld go into a Masters program so I could use my degree.
(Anthropology emphasis on medical and development meaning I want to help create programs to aid in preventative health care as well as programs which aid in community prosperity though education and local production)

How this all came about is that when people complain about the policies in their nation, people always tell them to go somewhere else. I'm stating that if I could, I would. And I have been trying.

I'm sorry that your friends father died in ireland. There are good sides and bad sides to free healthcare.
People just don't seem to understand the value of healthcare.

The cheapest I can purchase healthcare on my own is for $170 a month because I don't have the greatest medical history. But I need dental/eye too. Infact, I need about $5000 in dental work done. A reposting of a root canal on one tooth, two porcelain veneers and 4 wisdom teeth pulled. I have looked into dental schools, but it will still cost me about $2000 and take 3 weeks.

I am one of the people that would benifit hugely from health care reform as well as secondary education reform. Hell, even if they lowered interest rates, it would help. About $150 of my loan payment each month is just interest, and these are federal loans.
Sep 28 2008 1:17AM
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Reptar.
Posts: 1509 - Karma: 34
SHH!!!!! It is "he who must not be named!"

But about the debate. I wouldn't say either side did too well, except I really liked what obama pointed out about the war, and how WE shouldn't be paying for it all if WE are helping them rebuild there government, and how they sure as hell have a lot of money and can help us out.

I haven't really taken sides yet.
Sep 28 2008 1:21AM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
My mom works for a dental insurance company so we get awesome coverage /claim

But good on you for talking the talk about wanting to leave, and actually walking the walk and trying to leave. I cant stand people that just talk about "Oh im moving to canada" but it stops there and they dont even try.
Maybe you should consider military? Since you have a degree its a cakewalk and they have great medical
Sep 28 2008 1:24AM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
I can't convince myself in to go into the military when I don't agree with its behaviors.

I am however attempting to work for American Apparel because I do believe in their behaviors. I have also been trying many non profits as well other companies that practice fair trade and healthy employee treatment.
Sep 28 2008 1:36AM
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Tanner-D
Posts: 2061 - Karma: 4,116
i fell asleep
Sep 28 2008 1:41AM
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GuerillaInDaMist
Posts: 546 - Karma: 47
politics just suck. this is basically how everybody is voting in this election. well i dont like obama but i hate mccain so im going to obama or the other way around. our politics are fucked because of the two party system.
Sep 28 2008 1:43AM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
agreed. It when from which candidate do you like, to which is the lesser of the two evils.
Sep 28 2008 1:49AM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
Eh... its kinda always been like that, they dont really give you much to choose from haha, reminds me of a quote from W.C fields
"I never voted for anybody. I always voted against."
And thats from the 1940s
Sep 28 2008 1:57AM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
FOR SURE!

You should base your vote on some of that.   hahhaahaha  The nice guy with all the right things to say rarely gets the job done. I have hired a bunch of those mouthpieces in my years.  Go with the assholish douche bag if you want things to happen.  Obama will have meetings to discuss when the next meeting will be and then he will review it and state his opinion and nothing more will happen.

I got a prediction. 

McCain is back in Washington, he is supposedly working on the current supposed crisis.  He is laying back for the Democrats to push through their bail out, while forming/organizing a second plan that he will endorse/advocate when the Democrats plan fails in a few weeks.

Just a guess and some wishful thinking.
Sep 28 2008 10:29AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59

how is it that the man who's said repeatedly that ecconomics is not his strong point going to be the one to develop the 'solution' to the problem?  I think McCain is just playing games with the intention of having people think the thoughts you are

so much hate on kerry 4 years ago for being a flipflop 

what is all this? 



is this really what 'gets the job done'?





Sep 28 2008 11:46AM
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skiingonskis
Posts: 2076 - Karma: 262
perfect.
Sep 28 2008 12:16PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
I never said he will develop anything.  I believe he is more a leader,  IMO I want a leader of developers.  Not sure if that makes sense. 

BTW - I see this as a have vs. have-nots.   Obama is pleading to the masses to get himself elected and when he does, watch what happens over his tenure. Things will get worse.  Mark my words.  BTW I have been wrong before, but not often.  :o)
Sep 28 2008 12:34PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 913
BTW - if Obama gets elected, I won't aspire to make more than 250k.  that sucks to think that I will be penalized if I can make that much for making that much.
Sep 28 2008 12:36PM
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