If you were running for office...

oh boi.
Another political thread. And its American. Why the hell do I keep on commenting on american politics? It jsut pisses me off to no end, everytime.
You just can't argue online, it gets really confusing.
This is off my threads now.

Typo. I'm sorry, it was only "legal doctrine" or "principle" our country was built upon.

why do we need a law for everything? why don't we just not make a law about it and allow it to happen? then it's not conflicting with any law. am i wrong? is gay marriage "illegal"? why the fuck you do you care? it matters as much as george bush in the white house right now.

if you actually think the grade school version of seperation of church and state was a principle of our founding fathers when they drafted the constitution then you have a very seriously poor understanding of our country. Its not just me and im not jsut trying to sound pompous. No matter where you go you will eventually learn(through either life, a history course, or a politics course) that America is A, not a true democracy, B theres no true seperation of church and state, C there was never intended to be checks and balances (its shared power, not seperation of powers), D the judiciary branch gave itself the right to review legislation as unconstitutional, and E Congress was supposed to be the overwhelmingly most powerful entity, Executive second, and Judiciary third. These are the 5 biggest myths in american history and inevitably, if you go to college, or take AP US or something you will learn about them.

You also realize the bill of rights was passed in 1791- 2 years after the constitution was drafted. And when james madison wrote the first amendement the part where it said Congress shall make no law respecting an established religion, he meant just that. He didn't mean christian values shouldnt influence law making. He meant the nation can not establish a national church...

i know you spent a long time writing this but look at the post I posted after that.  I am in college, I know about eerything you said, and your last little tid bit there proved my point.

Corinthians 6:9:Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


Genesis 13:13: Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were SINNING GREATLY against the Lord.


Genesis 19:4-24: Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. [5] They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have SEX WITH THEM.” ... [11] Then [the messengers from God] struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door. [12] The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here — sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, [13] because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that HE has sent us to DESTROY it.” ... [24] Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens.


By the way, the book of Gensis is essentially in all three scripts...

And excuse me for not being clear. What i meant more clearly is that marriage as a term is derived from biblical scripture. People who wish to have a traditional definition would be opposed.

Based on your logic, why is polygamy illegal also? Why would in any way shape or form whatsoever one man marrying 10 other women affect anyone else on the planet?

what college did you go to and what proved what point? All im telling you is a more sophisticated understanding of the constitution. have you ever even glanced at it?

First, I think you would be surprised at how many people on NS have in fact taken econ. But really the "we" I was referring to is everyone who isn't you.

Yes he did veto that bill... but the EU (and countries around the world) are calling for the U.S. to lower and/or eliminate subsidies. Here's the part where you make your mistake. It is actually possible to profit from agriculture in the long run without subsidies. It would be a major crisis now if they decided to eliminate subsidies because the government has brainwashed the public into believing that we have a right to cheap basic food stuffs such as milk, corn, wheat and the like. But these changes have to take place at some point in time for us to correct the market and start to live in the 21st century. The majority of farms will fail but the market correction will be invaluable. Obviously there are other factors besides just eliminating subsidies that need to be considered if this is to happen.

I'm not sure where you took Econ or how well you did in it, but either you go to a school that should not be accredited or you just are a fuck up and didn't pay attention. One of the most basic principles of Econ is the idea that subsidies actually harm the market. Might want to re-read the chapter on that one because it is possible to profit without them. Do a little research about Australia and how successful the elimination of subsidies was there. Ok, I'll save you the trouble... It worked.

I'm pretty sure I never said that the EU is growing. But since you brought it up, it is. There is power in numbers and that is what the EU is developing.

Pertaining to France, they have ridiculous employment laws which make them impossible to use as a base.

Now I'm sure that this will make you pull out some other stat from another country but just think of it this way: when you graduate from wherever you are, you will be a part of that statistic for the United States.

You will be unemployed. Would you like to know why? I don't care I'm going to tell you anyway. Ready?
Here's why:
1) You are uninformed.
2) You think you are informed.
3) You are close minded.
4) You are focused on an incarnation of the world that hasn't existed since a little before the 1990's which may or may not be before you were born.

Here is what you need to realize: The world is never going to be how you want it to. It's getting smaller every day. (Not in area or volume obviously.) We have to live with all the countries around us. We need them to survive. We can no longer rely on ourselves to function in the world. At some point we will have to open up to the world. Most of us are getting that. You are struggling.

I'm glad you said this before I had to talk to him about it. Thanks.

yep. cool. says it in the bible. it also tells you you can own slaves. it tells you you can sell your wife as a sex slave. it tells you you can beat your kids....

clearly, its a great place to model anything in the country off of.


And did i every say polygamy should be illegal? no. but you dont exactly see millions of polygamists calling for it to be legal. you do for gay marriage.

wow ok since weve started quibbling all i have done is fully refute you in every statement youve ever made with cold hard facts. You always just love turning it around and being like ok fine then well XYZ.

Show me where in the bible it says you can own slaves, sell your wife as a sex slave, and where you can beat your kids.

Based on your logic, you seem to agree with tyranny of the majority. Clearly you need to do some more homework. You don't see millions of polygamists pleading to be legal because there isnt millions of them. OH WAIT THERE ARE DID YOU MISS THE THING IN TEXAS THIS YEAR. But do you think polygamy should be illegal?

I like your thinking...

you are sooooooooo fucking pretentious for a kid who has absolutely no fucking idea what hes talking about. Holy fuck you don't know the first thing about economics. I'm seriously about to draw out the equilibrium graph explaining to you why agriculture cannot be profitable in the long run. This is just universal fact that with today's modern techonology you literally cannot farm in a competitve free market without subsidaries. You can not earn a loss but it is impossible to earn a profit. Jesus christ you seriosuly have no idea what you are talking about so just stop. You don't know what market equilibrium is. If you think agriculture is profitable in the long run, please explain to me why, not in your fallacy ridden "rational" explainations but please use empirical evidence, economic principle and draw me the graph.
AND GUESS WHAT. ITS NOT BECAUSE WE EXPECT CHEAP PRODUCT.

Obviously subsidies hurt the market but not when the good produced must be produced. Do you know the fundamental purpose of government? THE purpose of government is to provide necessary goods where there is no market incentive to produce them. Those products are often products that once produced, are hard to restrict usage and must be enforced through the legitmate use of force.

YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THE EU IS GROWING?
The average EU GDP increase is 2.4% in 2007! In our current economic "crisis" our GDP is 2.2%! We average a 5% GDP increase every quarter! PS GDP isnt "some random stat". Do you know what a GDP is?! Please tell me without googling it.

Godamm im not even going to start responding to your posts cuz you obviously have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

Those little 5 points? They seem to describe you! I am informed, i actually know what im talking about. I know what a fucking GDP is and i know what respecitve countries GDPs are. I reserve judgement on principles i don't understand until i have studied them. You don't know anything about economics yet you love to talk about them.

Alright. I'm going to let you win this one because I don't want to go search out the empirical evidence that you so desperately desire. I would like to say however, that you are making a lot of assumptions about the market and how it should be that really don't deserve to be made. Just to use one of your points. With today's modern technology it IS possible to farm in a free market without subsidies. The technology makes unimaginable economies of scale possible. Farming may be reduced to being profitable for the biggest farms and it may even come into the realm of corporations to create farms large enough.
We do not expect cheap product, some people cannot survive without it. But letting these people fail gets into a moral dilemma of which I know we share drastically different views.

Just so I make sure you realize what subsidies are doing to our country... you know that every year farms throw out millions of tons of product because they cannot sell it. They produce it for the sole purpose of being able to procure the subsidy.

Haha. I'm glad you know what GDP is and respective countries GDP's. When your little almanac sitting next to you can wrap your head around global economic theory and business theory come back and talk to me. But make sure you clean up that mouth of yours first. No one wants to hear you swear for no apparent reason.

O, and one more thing. You offered to draw out the graph. Do it. I would love to see it. Maybe I'll decide that I was wrong all along... Don't get your hopes up though.

this thread has gotten way out of hand. you're arguing over each others policies, you guys aren't even politicians. it's illogical, you're taking each others daydreams so seriously.

lol

Haha we are actually arguing over one specific principle of economics for the most part. But otherwise, yes it has gotten way out of hand.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Withhold not chastisement from a boy; if you beat him with a rod he will not die. Beat him with the rod, and you will save him from the nether world. (Proverbs 23:13-14 NAB)

And you answered your own question when i came to the polygamist question. did you see that case in texas? they were fucking minors and there were how many hundred fucked up kids?

a gay couple gets married. have a family. same as a straight couple.


not fuck minors and fuck up children.

Hmm, there are some interesting facts and ideas in here.  I'm going to be studying econ and finance for the next 4 years but as of now I think you guys know more than me.

Haha you get to come back and figure out which one of us is right. SHWEEET. Where are you going to be studying? I'm studying finance and international business right now.

im a triple e major at syracuse

minor in polisci

If you noticed from my post I wasn't talking to you haha. But thank you for informing us of your obvious superiority. Enjoy your time there.

Going to start at WWU (Western Washington University) hopefulyl end up somewhere more prestigious, and I'm planning on a masters.  I love econ though, it can explain so many things and it is of utmost importance in almost everything.

True that. Have fun man. Best time of your life ahead of you. Of course that's what everyone says. I love econ too. Doesn't come easy too me but your right, it's so important we can't ignore it.