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Is God a Delusion?

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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
So last week I picked up two books at the bookstore - "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, and a book which I've lined up to read after about the history of belief and the origins of humanities religions. Taking from what I've read so far, I felt the need to bring my community in on the topics discussed therein.

I have my beliefs and you have yours. But I'd like to hear why you believe in a higher power or why you dont. I'd also like to remind people that the topic of this thread can be sensitive for some individuals, so if you are easily offended, and dont want your ideas scrutinized and questioned by others respectfully and intelligently. Please discuss with care.
Sep 2 2008 5:51PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
I will never put faith in any religion because religions make people blind as to the real world. nothing is an act of "God," nothing is planned out by "fate." Those are just excuses that scared people have come up with and it is sad, pathetic, and disturbing. It scares me to know how many people in this world have a fear of something that doesn't exist. It scares me to know that if people can have a fear of something that doesn't exist, what real things they are afraid of.

I do, however, have a strange feeling that there may be something out there extremely capable of "godlike" acts. Although I believe that if such a being exists, it either doesn't know humans even exist, or it simply doesn't care. Humanity has led itself to believe that it is important. What I'd like to know is, on what scale? Who is to say that a platypus is any less important than a human? I believe the word important was something spawned from religion, which is why I believe that we cannot determine what is or is not "important." Let's just live, and stop pretending as if we are a significant aspect of the universe.

Religion is a delusion formed as a direct result of paranoia. Sane people are afraid of what they know, insane people are afraid of what they think might be out there. Why fear something that you do not even know? That's like being afraid of a giant killer worm coming up from underground and eating your house. It's stupid.
Sep 2 2008 10:31PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
Hey Rowen-
If you are questioning the existence of God, you should even out reading the God Delusion by also watching "Expelled" filmed by Ben Stein. It pretty much shows the theory of evolution from a religious standpoint, reasons with Dawkins, and also refutes some of his thoughts, as well as other evolutionists. Just a little balance if you want to get both sides, IMO.

Coming from a Christian, I believe that God created the world, and created humans in order to glorify Him and life to your full potential. I believe that evolution is false and fairly shaky, and I could go into many examples of this but that would be an essay. Also, as a Christian, I go along with what the Bible says, and there is evidence to prove that the Bible was actually written by followers of Christ and alot of the events were true. I think I am digressing.

Anyways, I have questioned myself about the existence of God, as it is a natural thought, even though I am a Bible-thumper. ONe thing that leads me to think that there is a God is simply nature. Everytime I see a sunset (for example) I get this urge that i need to make the most out of life. Its just something inside me, maybe just my conscience, but that is controlled by God, i think.

OK so that may have strayed from the point a lot, but those are my thoughts. I am not a good debater, but I will try and reason with you. Oh, and I dont wanna offende anyone.
And thats my word
Sep 2 2008 10:31PM
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neon1peace
Posts: 998 - Karma: -1
And also I just remembered a story that a friend told me a while back (I know it doesnt prove anything but interept it as you like and its just cool anyway)

When my friend was a kid he was really confused about God and found many things hard to believe. He walking in his yard one day and desided to put God to the test. He picked up a huge (really huge) rock and peered over at the large bay windows on the front of his house. He looked into the sky and said, "God, if this window doesnt break, I will believe in you." He took the rock and threw it as hard as he could against the window. The massive rock bounced off and the window remained, not even scractched. My friend was pretty amazed so he picked up another rock and threw it. That time the window shattered and his dad kicked his ass.

Moral of the story: God will answer you, but dont test him

^This actually happened for real but interpret it as you like
Sep 2 2008 10:33PM
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jimmer
Posts: 3586 - Karma: 80
well said, haha i get the same exact thing with the sunset. weird stuff.
Sep 2 2008 10:35PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
SO I am lazy and wont read all of your posts, but this guy sorta was along the lines of what I am driving at. I think you summed it up pretty well.
Sep 2 2008 10:35PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49

sweet im glad someone feels it. what do u believe in?

Sep 2 2008 10:36PM
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jimmer
Posts: 3586 - Karma: 80
not too sure what you mean by that, but i'm a catholic/christian. a mix of both, i go to catholic church and a christian youth group. yadadamean?
Sep 2 2008 10:39PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49

yea thats what i meant. it can be sorta touchy for like buddhists and other eastern stuff. anyway yea, im a christian. thats tight tho

Sep 2 2008 10:46PM
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EVAN.F
Posts: 895 - Karma: 2,820
well said pete you have some interesting points but what do you say about other religions? that theyre wrong? or that all gods can exist?
Sep 2 2008 10:51PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
hahaha that sounds like how the nazis got started.... people never questioned why, they just followed
Sep 2 2008 11:13PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
umm well coming from a christian standpoint im obviously gonna say that they are wrong. if all gods existed this world would be drama. just read any of homer's epics, multiple gods call for tons of drama and death. idk that could be way off topic, just my opinion. so in short, only one God can exist, and it has to be the Lord, IMO
Sep 2 2008 11:14PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
I'll start by saying im a former catholic.

Now I didn't stop believing in a higher power at all when I decided that i'd had enough of the Catholic ideology. Organized religion is flawed and corrupt hands down. The hypocrisy in history and the inability of the church to change with the times is part of the reason behind the huge shift away from Catholicism.

Even though im into evolution and I believe almost every aspect of it I still have issues grasping the idea that we are born, then we die, then we become inanimate. I still have a hope that we are here for a reason and that we go somewhere when we die. How can you think that when you die you become nothing? Its a huge issue with me, I don't believe that any of the religions in the world will hold the answer for me but I sure as hell won't stop believing in some sort of higher being or purpose.
Sep 2 2008 11:26PM
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KSdesign
Posts: 687 - Karma: 175
iz there a link to this? now you have me interested in this... that would be really exciting news...
Sep 2 2008 11:26PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
it's actually one of jupiters moons. and they're like 90% sure that there is life under the surface, organisms similar to plankton and zooplankton living in the ocean under the crust of the moon. just google it, there are quite a few articles on it.
Sep 2 2008 11:30PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
Well for one thing, man is not perfect, and there will be corruptness in every religion whether it be catholicism, monism, buddhism, heck, even postmodernism lol. oh and christianity too. but one thing that we have to get over is that we are fallen, and the only way we can overcome that is accepting jesus christ as lord and savior. again, this is my religion, i dont wanna be dogmatic.

I do agree that we have a purpose in life, as i stated in my first post. And i pity those who think that there is no purpose but to just please themselves, etc. word?
Sep 2 2008 11:32PM
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speedy29
Posts: 868 - Karma: 10
Off topic but maybe you should read up on how the nazi's got started a hint was it wasn't from blindly following hitler.
Sep 2 2008 11:37PM
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aurora.
Posts: 1169 - Karma: 104
im definitely more into eastern religions and culture (buddhism, hinduism, chinese philosophy etc)....becuase those religions are more philosophies and an overall outlook on life.
im not saying that i am a practicing buddhist...but i beleive it is a great way to conduct yourself. you don't have to beleive in Karma in order to conduct your life after it....its just a good way to keep harmony...
i also like the fact that eastern religions dont have established churches. Finding "god" and "spirituality" is all through yourself versus listening to sermons by a priest....it challenges followers to think for themselves and understand the philosophy and religion that they practice. its also rooted in more natural ways of thinking like cyclical versus linear and verbs versus nouns. like in the chinese language there is no word for "love" but there is "loving". its an active religion and culture.....

i took a philosophy class year which was really eye opening and helped me understand religions and philosophy....if you are interested into how people think and how people beleive and practice religion and philosophy....i would highly suggest a philosophy class..its not just learning about old stone greeks and romans...
Sep 2 2008 11:39PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I sure as hell think there is. That is why I use art (skiing, music, drawing, and design) to escape this modern culture that sickens me so. I always feel the urge to go into the untampered woods and just be one with my thoughts and creativity. Hell, there have been days where I walk to school through the woods barefoot just so I can get a little taste of this sensation. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Being nice is my religion; Nature is my God.

With that being said, I personally believe that people overlook what it means for something to "exist." God is not a tangible object, as we all know. But to say he doesn't exist, I think, is stupid. (I don't mean God as in an unknown all-knowing deity, but I mean of the popular Christian belief). If something exists in our minds, then is accentuated through society, does it still exist?

In conclusion, I believe that God is a delusion that exists. As long as people believe in this delusion, this "God" of theirs, God will exist.
Sep 2 2008 11:40PM
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speedy29
Posts: 868 - Karma: 10
I think most people here have issues with organized religion which I do to but the bible stresses a personal relationship with god/jesus which is way more important than the church as a building.

Also if god wanted to tell us everything about the earth and creation their would have been more than one  page devoted to creation bu their is a ton of pages devoted to the teachings of jesus.
Sep 2 2008 11:41PM
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steve.o
Posts: 628 - Karma: 9
yep hes fake, but i do believe in mind power and faith, you attract everything that happens to you whether you like it or not, god to me is your personal faith and how you believe in yourself
Sep 2 2008 11:47PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
well after seeing pete's schpiel up there, i know him btw haha. here goes.

I, am a pagan, if that's what you wanna call it. this could get long and if it does then i will sparknotes it.

first off, the problems i have with christianity.

1- even if i do all the shit im still going straigh to hell. why? simple, i am bisexual, aka, i like men. yes homo. thats sodomy, hint hint, sodom and gommorrah, I think that little bit there pretty much exits me out of being a bible banger. now, for more background info. no, being half gay is not a choice, at all. theres nothing wrong with it, thats how my soul rolls and im down with that.
2- the bible advocates slavery. WTF? slaves? now if anything is immoral slavery is.
3-countless hipocrasy's in the bible.
4-the bibles a lie. thats a fact as far as im concerned.

ok now, what do i believe in then?good question. i believe in earth. i venerate our home. we need her, but she doesnt need us. im a misanthrope by nature. people are like my g=mas old boyfriend geno. when she was sick he went out gambling. precisely what humanity is doing. i digress, if god is rad then why construct such a shit thing as people?
Sep 2 2008 11:51PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Yes! That is why I've always found organized religion to be so hypocritical. If you can love God anywhere, any time, any way, then why the hell do you need to show up in a suit and sing shitty music?
Sep 2 2008 11:56PM
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aurora.
Posts: 1169 - Karma: 104
yea word. i beleive that man made god....god didnt make man. God exists within people within everything....god isnt some dude in a robe and beard....god is just a name for something we cannot explain.

when i was high one time i came up with this:

okay so if you beleive in evolution and big bang theory and all that jazz and youve got the first "living organism". this living organism came about with a mixture of some compounds and minerals and it was ZAPPED! with electricity from presumably a lightning bolt....and that original energy that created life is still inside of everything living....so to me God is energy....god is the negative and positive charges on molecules...

like nuerons in our body work by replacing potassium and sodium??? ions (i had ap bio last year. its been awhile) and its this exchange of energy from positive and negative thats miraculous and allows us to be so complex. so now taking energy into a more of a metaphor versus literally....god is anything that gives you energy that completes you....for some poeple they feel better when they are in a congragation singing shitty songs and listening to a sermon...i get energy from watching the snow fall...from looking inwardly and appreciating the natural world....hahaha this came out longer than it was suppose to be but you get the idea...
Sep 3 2008 12:09AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
dude i thought you fixed the whole bi thing. your still convinced? hmm interesting. ok. well anyways, where in the bible does it advocate slavery... cuz theres passages in there that you can misinterpret, like you can misinterpret rules from your mom. Also, there is no hypocrisy in the bible. it is a proven fact that nothing contradicts itself. if thats what u mean. im skippin over to your last point. If god is rad, he did invent people that were rad. Adam and Eve. they were perfect. then good ole serpent satan comes along and tempts them. WHy? all part of God's plan. Why arent we all perfect? no idea.
Sep 3 2008 12:11AM
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EVAN.F
Posts: 895 - Karma: 2,820
 so far so good... great thread. very interesting







Sep 3 2008 12:12AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Dude I thought of that too! Energy! But when I pitched it to some people they thought I was fucking retarded. Oh well.
Sep 3 2008 12:25AM
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shortdawg
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 19
+ with no evidence other than a book that is probably fictional and was written during the
same time period that The Diamond Sutra and the Mashari was written (Both fictional religoius books written before the year 0 a.d.), so much that  people are willing to live by it and preach everything that is written in it. Thats just nonsensicle.
Sep 3 2008 12:28AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Parts of this I think must be sarcasm and parts I think you might be serious.  I'm confused.



Sep 3 2008 12:32AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
Its because God gave us a choice. He loves us enough not to force us to love him. We choose. IN the garden of Eden, Adam chose to sin, and these are the results of sin. These are the results of sin in the human race.

If he didnt give us choice, our religion would become Islam and wed all be smoking hasshish
Sep 3 2008 12:35AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Oh, thank God....or in your case, science...or something.  For a second I was thinking, "Oh no!  Drew must have suffered a terrible, mental disability-inducing head injury!  Intelligent debate on the internet is DEAD!"  I am greatly relieved.



Sep 3 2008 12:38AM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
funny, you're icon has the peace symbol in it. would you care to know how many wars have been started in the name of Christianity, how many millions of people have been killed as a result of "faith?"

or would you rather pretend that it was all worth it?
Sep 3 2008 12:38AM
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AALT
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 60

same here if theres no proof then nope. I dont believe in it, its so annoying, me and my friend went into like a christian store and asked for the origin of species (darwin wrote it, theory of evolution stuff) and the person at the counter asked if it was a cd or book, we laughed our asses off.... How would they not know?

Sep 3 2008 12:39AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Are you playing devil's retarded advocate or are you actually ignorant (and cliche) enough to use the "religion is the cause of all wars" argument?


Sep 3 2008 12:40AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
The ignorance on both sides in this thread is actually almost physically painful.




Sep 3 2008 12:43AM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
i never said religion was the cause of all wars. but blatant faith in something is the cause of most wars, whether it be religion, racism, etc.
Sep 3 2008 12:45AM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
care to elaborate?
cause im not seeing it from the spiritual left...
Sep 3 2008 12:47AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
No, scarcity is the cause of most wars.  Religion, racism, etc. are the tools that are used (or abused) by those in power to gain power over more, whether it be more people, more resources, more markets, etc.

Sep 3 2008 12:48AM
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mtbakerteacher
Posts: 4185 - Karma: 20
We on the same ship man. My mom is a hardcore presbyterian, and I went to church for the first 13 years of my life every sunday. My dad's entire family is extremely catholic, though recently due to his and my debates he's become increasingly agnostic/spiritual.

I'm a very physical person. I like to see and feel and understand what's going on, and religion cannot offer me that. I tried praying, but nothing happened. I studied the bible looking for answers but all I never found what I was looking for.

As I got older, I got more cynical about others beliefs. I tried debating people, but religious people had nothing to debate with me, and soon their morals varied from mine wildly. Now I watch countries tear each other apart over religion, and look at history and how misinterpretation of the teachings has led to war.

Now how could something that preaches peace, love and harmony allow this to happen?
Sep 3 2008 12:49AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
The spiritual left?  Is there a spirituality spectrum now?  Is it as poor a tool as its political cousin?



Sep 3 2008 12:50AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
he doesnt let bad things happen, its free will. do u get my point about choice? man chose to kill, man chose to have sex with a million girls, man chose to sit in the sun and let his skin burn to rot. am i making any sense or is my point faulty
Sep 3 2008 12:51AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Bizarro world, man...bizarro world.




Sep 3 2008 12:51AM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
ok ok, bad analogy.

lets say christians are rightys

everyone else gets the left.
Sep 3 2008 12:51AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Not much.



Sep 3 2008 12:52AM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
i think you might be missing drews point a bit there.

i think, now dont quorte me on this, why would "god" let katrina happen? AIDS? the black death?
is more what drew wanted.
Sep 3 2008 12:53AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
So at this point we're just making arbitrary, useless categorizations, then?

Man...I told myself not to get involved in this thread.

Sep 3 2008 12:54AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Who's choice was it to consider these things as "bad" in the first place?
Sep 3 2008 12:55AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
maybe to show that he is in power? and when you make bad choices, he punishes u. like when the israelites disobeyed they wandered in the desert for 40 years. i dont like making bible references, but i hope that helps.
Sep 3 2008 12:55AM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
i dont even know why i was categorizing in the first place anymore
Sep 3 2008 12:56AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I'm not saying murder isn't bad; that was more directed towards having lots of sex, being gay, blah blah
Sep 3 2008 12:56AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Sweet, we've reached middle ground.




Sep 3 2008 12:56AM
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