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Is God a Delusion?

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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
So last week I picked up two books at the bookstore - "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, and a book which I've lined up to read after about the history of belief and the origins of humanities religions. Taking from what I've read so far, I felt the need to bring my community in on the topics discussed therein.

I have my beliefs and you have yours. But I'd like to hear why you believe in a higher power or why you dont. I'd also like to remind people that the topic of this thread can be sensitive for some individuals, so if you are easily offended, and dont want your ideas scrutinized and questioned by others respectfully and intelligently. Please discuss with care.
Sep 2 2008 5:51PM
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matthew.
Posts: 879 - Karma: 12
is that a joke?
Sep 2 2008 5:55PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
... I guess it could be, but no, I was hoping for an actual discussion. Do we still have these occasionally?
Sep 2 2008 5:56PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
This is my opinion.

If you need a reason to believe in a higher power, you are completely missing the point. Faith is simply that: unquestioning belief without any need or request for proof or evidence. There is no why. Save the demands for empirical evidence and rational explanation for the physical domain, and leave the spiritual out of it.
Sep 2 2008 5:56PM
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slaydave
Posts: 1697 - Karma: 62
why do you people have to do this shit...

sooo many of these threads have been started and it never stays respectful and no one ever changes anyones mind or respects anyone else's opinion.

nothing is concluded from the discussion and it really doesnt matter what you think if you are unsure or have your mind made up cause we're not going to know until we fucking die anyway. 

quit trying to cause trouble and spread hatred.
Sep 2 2008 5:58PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Is there a need for spirituality though? Humanity seems to be slowly moving away from it, at least in my eyes...
Sep 2 2008 5:58PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Never have I said I'm trying to change anyones mind or incite argument. If you read what I actually posted, you would have concluded differently. If I wanted to cause trouble, believe me, there are easier ways. All I want to have is a forum to share our views and politely discuss them. Is it wrong for me to ask others their opinions?
Sep 2 2008 6:01PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
well there's a can of worms isn't it.... and yet one that perhaps isn't considered enough.  I probably wouldn't have even answered this thread had not these thoughts been trailing though my head anyway.

here are a couple thoughts of my own... if that is I can get them to make sense.

first... there is creationism and evolution.  life had to be "created" somewhere to evolve.  The question is when, how, and possibly even where.  I read the Kybalion quite often (no relation to Kabalaism... or that Madona stuff), and if delved into enough you might be able to see where I'm coming from.

There does seem to be a weird way life and events in the universe and on earth seem to coinside.  Bringing many people to believe in a God or in Destiny.  But so much about science seems to go against this... or does it?  Perhaps there is a wider "plan" to the universe, created in the time of the big bang, or before.  And perhaps this destiny that we talk of so much is just the predictable reactions to actions that have taken place in time, space, life, etc.  That perhaps certain elements, running at certain vibrations, in certain situations or lives, creates predictable reactions that become what we call destiny.  And this God in which we speak is simply a manifestation for our understanding of this great cosmic perfection.

I hope that makes even a lick of sense.
Sep 2 2008 6:03PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
In NSG?  Seriously?

I can't even bear to watch the unraveling stupidity...but I probably will anyway.

To answer the question, I have far more faith in God than I do in the possibility of intelligent discussion on newschoolers.com.


Sep 2 2008 6:09PM
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bermbuster49
Posts: 7445 - Karma: 90
maybe this is completely off topic but scientists are like sooo close to confirming life on one of saturns (i think it was saturn) moons. . .  so what does that mean? like i've never read the bible but i'm pretty sure they didnt talk about life on other planets, so if there is...does that prove something? that there isnt a higher being and that we are all just a part of the universe because of science and physics?  but if thats the case, the question is still there...how did all this happen?
Sep 2 2008 6:09PM
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MagSeven
Posts: 1000 - Karma: 412
Frankly, I have never believed in any higher being, or power from a young age. The logical thoughts of reason and logic have always overpowered any contemplation of anything that might be more powerful.

That said, from time to time, when something that I really want, or something that saves my ass happens, completely out of chance, I find myself saying thank you. I'm not sure who I'm saying thank you to, but it feels right to thank someone, because otherwise I would have been in the shit.

So in short, I really in all honesty, cannot believe there is a 'God', but on the very odd occasion, (possibly through coincidence, or chance) I feel there is something that is controlling events in my favour.

Sep 2 2008 6:13PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
From what I know of Christianity, finding life on other planets wouldnt invalidate the religion. Theologians would probably find some way of twisting the news so that it further supports their religion.
Sep 2 2008 6:13PM
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king.tubby
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 122
i like to relate my personal take on religion to my status as a cubs fan. allow me to explain.
i enjoy baseball, always have. grew up watching it. i dont know WHY i like baseball, its like just a part of me. baseball resonates with me. i am a cubs fan mostly because that was how i was raised, mostly because of geographical closeness (grew up a couple hours from chicago). i like baseball at my core, and was kind of a cubs fan through default- geographical/ familial reasons. being a cubs fan makes sense, feels right, to me.
i believe in spirituality, in a higher plane of consciousness/ existense, in some sort of "higher power" (pretty much hate that term). i basically think that all religions are equal, and are just different ways for people to tap into the spiritual realm. for me, as a westerner, american, middle class individual, christianity is the model which makes the most sense.
so, much as i enjoy baseball through being a cubs fan, i feel i reap the rewards of a spiritual life through christianity.
as to the "why" i even believe in anything spiritual, i don't know. to me, it doesn't matter. its weird to explain. which is another thing: for me, my faith or whatever you want to call it, is a very private thing. i dont really care to go to church. dont really like to explain my beliefs to others.
but yeah. thats my take on the matter.
Sep 2 2008 6:16PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I guess in response to my own thread:

I am 99% sure there is no god. I guess that would make me an atheist. It probably helped that my family never went to church when I was a kid, but after a lot of 'soul searching' (if you believe I have one I guess), thats what I see. In life, I've been best suited to see the evidence layed out in front of me and choose the most logical and coherent option available. When I do this with matters of spirituality, I come up with a lack of a designer or omnipotent force.
Sep 2 2008 6:18PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
How about discussing baseball though? If you were brought up in say, New York, would you still be a cubs fan?
Sep 2 2008 6:19PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Again, it's not about need, as faith is perosnal. And people continue to have personal desire to believe, despite a noticeable decline in that trend.
Sep 2 2008 6:21PM
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MagSeven
Posts: 1000 - Karma: 412
By the way Rowen, + Karma for a thought provoking, and interesting thread. It'll be interesting to read the subsequent posts. Thanks.


Sep 2 2008 6:22PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
i was brought up in colorado and i'm a mets fan.  don't know how that one happened.
Sep 2 2008 6:23PM
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mellifluous
Posts: 1682 - Karma: 68
tip of my tongue.
Sep 2 2008 6:23PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
I have a pantheistic/deistic view on God. I believe in a reason for the existence and structure of the universe. I don't believe in a man with a white beard in the sky who watches us masturbate. 
Sep 2 2008 6:40PM
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Scott~
Posts: 2551 - Karma: 49
In a way I think of myself as a kind of unique sort of agnostic. From a scientific point of view I see our growth through the processes of evolution, but looking back before Earth and the expansion of our universe at some point its logical to conclude that something was created from nothing. Now this flies in the face of every law of conservation we have and really it is unexplainable. We may develop theories and hypothesis on how the big bang (string theory dimension interaction etc) occured, but it hardly points to where the very first mass particles came from. I dont think that this phenomenon will ever be explained by science, but only religion~
Sep 2 2008 6:49PM
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mmmmm...Pie
Posts: 673 - Karma: 15
Personally, I view myself as an agnostic. I'm not going to deny the fact that there could be a god, but I highly doubt he exists, especially in the form world religions think he does.

Anyway, I guess I'll keep this short (this is NS, after all) and post this quote that pretty much sums up my personal beliefs:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
~ Stephen Roberts
Sep 2 2008 6:54PM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
Believe what you believe and let others believe what they believe. No point in trying to ask why.


Just be
Sep 2 2008 6:57PM
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Scott~
Posts: 2551 - Karma: 49
But ceiling cat DOES watch you masturbate...
~
Sep 2 2008 6:59PM
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Scott~
Posts: 2551 - Karma: 49
My true religion
Click for larger image
Click for larger image
Sep 2 2008 7:04PM
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little_ey
Posts: 609 - Karma: 392
so then imagine if it wasn't just the big bang.  that the big bang was just another reaction to some other cataclism in some other universe.
Sep 2 2008 7:36PM
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natedogg789435
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 9
ur post was all that we needed. its sensitve and we all have our beliefs. mine is i dont know 100 percent but i am pretty sure there isn't.
Sep 2 2008 7:39PM
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grams.
Posts: 7406 - Karma: 186
Yep, I believe there is a creator behind this world.
Sep 2 2008 7:57PM
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asians_allen
Posts: 15 - Karma: 10
you sir are a fag
Sep 2 2008 7:59PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
God explains everything that science hasn't gotten to yet for those looking for another explanation.
Sep 2 2008 8:03PM
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Leo.
Posts: 508 - Karma: 17
Religion is really just blind acceptance, which is extremely foolish to do after you realize the only reason you ever believe the nonsense was because of the way you were conditioned as a child.
Sep 2 2008 8:19PM
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king.tubby
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 122
no, thats kind of what im saying. id probably be a hindu if i was born in india
Sep 2 2008 8:24PM
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Scott~
Posts: 2551 - Karma: 49
Thats kind of what im trying to say... the big bang wasnt the beginning, and how can science ever hope to explain the actual beginning?
Sep 2 2008 8:33PM
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pianoman
Posts: 2503 - Karma: 779
Yes.

I am an atheist. I also completely respect the majority of all religious people, because they should have the freedom of what to believe in. Also, many religious people follow moral values more closely than they would otherwise, due to the fact that religion teaches them to. That being said, I think that religion was formed as a scam, or a trap. Despite that standpoint I have, I don't think religion is necessarily bad; in fact, many good things have come from it. However, I am defensive of my position (about the scam part).

Religion is a psychological trap. People are raised their entire lives with religious concepts being drilled into their head at such a constant rate that it is almost impossible for them to stray from religion. They are told not to question religion, and to me that seems ridiculous. Any counter-argument to religion can be fended off easily with a quick reply such as: "we don't question it. faith is faith". I know just how hard it is to drop what has such deep spiritual meaning and importance, so the stubborn mentality prevails in basically all cases. The unquestioning mentality is a result of the scam. I believe that religion is designed to answer all questions that nobody has any idea how to answer, and in many cases to bring in as many followers as possible. Therefore, ideas like "you shouldn't question religion" and "what other explanation do you have" are tools used to target people who are unsure of how the world came to be (100% of all people, that is). That is why it's so common for people to believe so deeply in religion. Us atheist have to deal with such a big mystery. The difference between us and religious people is that we have an unsolved case and they have an answer. The "answer" is so understandably attractive, that most people are drawn to it strongly. Atheist are cautious people who have decided not to go with the crowd because they can see the corporate plot. Religion is so gratifying that it's hard not to become a firm believer and follower. I understand that cultural background and family pressures play a big role, but of course those are the things that determine who we are. It's a fundamental aspect of life. One reason I am not religious is because there is no proof or reason to believe in some holy spirit. Why should I choose one religion over another? Followers from all different religions insist on their own, and they all have their own argument. Show me your argument, WITHOUT just telling me that 1) it says so in the book OR 2) faith means you don't seek a reason.
Sep 2 2008 8:51PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
I only use God to curse things, and blame stuff beyond my control on, like bad weather and little shit like cords getting tangeled, God is in the details right?
Sep 2 2008 9:11PM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
Only Rowen could pull this one off without causing a 5 page hate thread.
Sep 2 2008 9:14PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
well, seeing as how this kinda devolved into a christianity thread i'lll comment. I DO NOT, BELIEVE IN CHRITIAN GOD AT ALL. now dont think otherwise.

thats all.
Sep 2 2008 9:30PM
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jimmer
Posts: 3586 - Karma: 80
werd

i'm christian. don't really need any proof, i just believe in the bible and stuff. no hating on any atheists or anything, everyone's beliefs are chill with me. i'm not really sure what the question of the thread was, but feel free to ask me whatever.
Sep 2 2008 9:44PM
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Leo.
Posts: 508 - Karma: 17
i realize that came off pretty hostile, so i must add that I respect the majority of religious people and their choices, but it's not for me.
Sep 2 2008 9:47PM
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TeamJones
Posts: 629 - Karma: 12
Sep 2 2008 9:52PM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
I feel like some people need to beleive or have faith in a god/religion, but for reasons un-known to me.

Just the way religion started makes it seem completely false to me. People would make up stories to explain things they couldn't figure out, why the sun moved, how things were made. Now we have science and have explanations for most of this shit but people still beleive in god and stuff.

I poorly explained it but there are many reason why im not religious and wonder why people are. Isnt it enough to be a good person, just to be a good person? Why do you people feel they have to so they get in to heaven or to please god?

And dont even get me started on people who try to push religion on other people.
Sep 2 2008 9:56PM
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martin.
Posts: 2115 - Karma: 34
Ok to all the people that say "It all depends on how you were raised", well I'm the exception to that rule.

My mom was a pastor at a lutheran church up until a few years ago, and my dad is a "go to church every day" catholic. I was raised believing that there was a god and he watched over us and helped us out when we were down.

But then some shit happened in my life (age 11 or 12) that I had no control over (not a death in the family if that's what you were thinking), and I prayed. Lo and behold, nothing happened.

I consider myself a person with some pretty good karma overall, so why 'said thing' happened to me was/is beyond my comprehension.

Since then I've done some thinking, and the idea that there is a God kind of makes no sense to me. Just the fact that all these holy wars are going on and everyone proclaims that God is on their side is a major indicator to me. If God truly did exist that right and wrong would be better defined. Namely, the "right" side would always pwn the wrong sides ass.

I've seen good people have rediculously bad things happen to them, but is it the fact that they have had bad things happen to them one of the reasons that they are good people? who knows


One thing I find crazy though is the amount of features on our body that suit us perfectly to our enviornment. Just think about the texture of our hands that enables us to grib just about everything, and that we have all these organs with specific tasks. If anything were to make me to beleive in God it would be the fact that we are just about perfectly suited to our enviornment.



Sparknotes: no, I don't beleive in God.
Sep 2 2008 10:00PM
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zylstra
Posts: 3613 - Karma: 125
can't believe i'm agreeing with the asian....well put asian well put
Sep 2 2008 10:05PM
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jimmer
Posts: 3586 - Karma: 80
yeah dude...i think about shit like that all the time. but i end up just saying "well fuck, i will never understand. i'm not supposed to understand." that's what faith is to me.
Sep 2 2008 10:07PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
I feel as though having faith in something I can't bring myself to believe in is completely useless. Cant say I have anything against religion for the most part. But it's not for me.
Sep 2 2008 10:13PM
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martin.
Posts: 2115 - Karma: 34
well put. It's amazing that WE EXIST, but I still don't believe in God because there is a scientific explanation on why we are just about physically perfect, but no scientific explanation for why bad things happen to good people.
Sep 2 2008 10:13PM
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Phill.
Posts: 1149 - Karma: 37
haha....i love the cubs to.... maby in some deep theological resonings u could relate what the cubs fans have been through to christianity..... for example we (cubs fans) all beleived every year in and out for 100 years that the cubs were goin to go all the way... christians such as myself (yes i got to church almost every sunday) have been beleiving in god for thousands of years in and out.... now that the cubs are well on their way to the playoffs and all that beleiving that took place MAY pay off in the end..... same goes for christianity the world as we know it is rapidly coming to an end and beleivers and non-beleivers alike know it.... and beleiving in god WILL pay off in the end....

if u r still reading this (dont know y u would cause it hardly makes sense) what im trien to say is beleiving will payoff in the end whether u realize it now or not..... jus my take on the subject
Sep 2 2008 10:15PM
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schism
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 389
i don't believe in a god. I think it's kinda ridiculous to think that there is some high power spirit that lives somewhere out in the depths of space and whatnot. Now, religion, that a whole new story that i could go on for a long time.
Sep 2 2008 10:15PM
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neon1peace
Posts: 998 - Karma: -1
Wow. scrolling throught this thread i picked out like eight different people that I wanted to quote but im not gonna quote them all.

I myself am a believer, and I wont try to force any of my views on anyone else. But God doesnt have to zap you with good feelings or show you miracles on a day to day basis to prove his love for you, let alone his existence. Sometimes times are bad, but you have to stick through it and realize that there is something out there.

And for all of you Atheists out there, I really dont want to spread any hate, as it would counter what kind of peace religion stands for in the first place. But please, for your own sake, give god a chance and he will find a way to answer you. It might not be obvious or what your looking for, but he will answer you.

Peace
Sep 2 2008 10:23PM
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smooticus
Posts: 1798 - Karma: 27
I have a reason, its hard too explain but basically there has to be something else other than ourselves. I mean how else would we be able to feel and think all these complicated things. If we dont understand than there most be something that does.

I can beleive anything else but, because if this is all some random coincidence than why the fuck should i bother. The way i see it is that we will get smarter and smarter and will discover more crazy things about EVERYTHING, but there is NOOO way that we will ever know the answer to anything.

Except the meaning of life.. Its 42
Sep 2 2008 10:24PM
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