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October, 2024

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McCain's running mate is the Alaskan Governor??!

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aurora.
Posts: 1169 - Karma: 104
what!? Sarah Palin, the alaskan governor, is apparently going to be McCain's running mate. I think its pretty strategic of the republicans to do this, but she stood for nothing while she was running and has no experience. You couldn't attack her or argue against her becuase she basically kept her mouth shut and never said what she specifically stood for other than the generic republican opinion. She is better than our former governor, but vice president???! I just hope people are smart enough to make sure they understand her policies and don't just vote for McCain becuase he's got a women on the ticket the same way i hope people don't just vote for Obama becuase hes black, as much as Id like to see a women as president or vice president....

this also makes the prez race in alaska a lot more heated becuase this year alaska could be a swing state (we are very very republican) and there's quite a few people upset with the republicans here becuase of Ted Stevens and Don Young, but i think people will see that an Alaskan is on the ticket and think thats more important....

i just heard the story on the morning news that it is official but I can't find any online articles about it becuase its too soon, but maybe later I'll post one.
Aug 29 2008 11:00AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
You should try listening to talk radio.
Sep 3 2008 6:06PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
You did to my recollection, but its really trivial and irrelevant.

In any case, if you really want to revert back to that gun thread I'll give you my two cents on that picture. It demonstrates a pair of people handling guns in an irresponsible way. Seeing as how there is absolutely no reason to have rifles next to a swimming pool or to have your finger on the trigger just to pose for a photograph. Indeed that such behavior can be attributed many gun owners, no less than the governor of a state...is a stretch. That is not saying such that you specifically would have such feelings, but the intent of the photoshoper seems fairly obvious.

But in hindsight it probably was not worth commenting on and is trivial.
Sep 3 2008 7:44PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
No, but have before interpreted an attempt sarcasm as common bitching, and I'm not the only one that has ever been guilty of that.
Sep 3 2008 7:45PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
It's so funny to me to see these liberals/Democrats trying to smeer and trash (ie: photoshoped picture, untrue stories about her faking her pregancy) whatever they can about Palin. they look sooo desperate and afraid of this women its comical. They know she is going to kick their trash. Just watch her spech tonight, she will bring it!
Sep 3 2008 8:49PM
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Typical
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 83
Before being a Republican, she was a member (partial founder I believe) of a party that wanted Alaska to recede from the United States...  so she has stood for something.  Funny that John picked a woman...
Sep 3 2008 9:19PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
...hahhahahahhhahahahahah

mccains people seem to be doing enough of that themselves


Sep 3 2008 11:09PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Is anyone watching Mike Huckabee talk about Palin just now? Avoided the experience issue altogether, and trashed "European" ideas about healthcare... Let's check the list for best healthcare:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

In bold, Europe. Emphasized: United States. Sorry Huckabee...
Sep 4 2008 12:45AM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Yeah, I'd like to see where that list came from and what data it's based on.




Sep 4 2008 12:05PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
just going to point this out,


why is it that foreign leaders come here(MN) to the mayo clinic?

could it be, AMERICA KICKS ASS?


nope, because we suck..... 



Sep 4 2008 12:09PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i would also like some stats as far as population of those country's.  GDP?

america does alright for itself...
Sep 4 2008 12:15PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Oh, get over yourself. You know exactly what I'm trying to say. Now quit splitting hairs and move the fuck on.
Sep 4 2008 12:32PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Funny how the top 10 European countries on that list have no real pharmaceutical industry to speak of.
Sep 4 2008 1:10PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Click for larger image
Sep 4 2008 1:11PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Sourced from the WHO health report.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Sep 4 2008 3:11PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Google?
Sep 4 2008 3:12PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
cia world fact book would give you the answer you're looking for.
Sep 4 2008 4:36PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Either they're mooching off us or pharmaceuticals are a blight on healthcare.
Sep 4 2008 5:27PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
that list could be a whole lot different depending on how wealthy you are in each of those countries...certainly the american ranking would be a lot different.
Sep 4 2008 5:56PM
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sk1er
Posts: 614 - Karma: 10
i like her quote on the Iraq war.  "A task that is from god".  It doesnt confuse church and state motives at all.
Sep 4 2008 5:58PM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
Ya but all of the major pharmaceuticals are multinational and have headquarters all over Europe. The pharmaceutical industry is actually MUCH MUCH better in Europe than it is in America. I've worked the last 2 years from Pfizer so I've seen it all firsthand.
Sep 4 2008 7:37PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
If you standardize healthcare, its extremely likely that the costs of both production and innovation go up. But thats okay, its not like they can layoff American workers and move elsewhere to cut costs...oh wait. Ah never mind, we can just give all the unemployed people fatter welfare checks to go with their government subsidized healthcare.

And yes Drew, you're a super-genius. Of the 50 largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, more than 20 of them are located in the US (more than double the next closest country)...and the only thing all of them contribute to medical science is Viagra. Clearly I am no match for your incredible tact, vast intelligence, and outstanding wit.
Sep 4 2008 11:20PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
LMAO!
Sep 5 2008 12:05AM
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multi-illionaire
Posts: 99 - Karma: 15
Sep 5 2008 2:16PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I meant that you bolded Canada, which last I checked is not in Europe.

*cue NES Mario death music*
Sep 5 2008 2:23PM
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BigMeech621
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 16
She looks like the librarian from a Van Halen video!
Sep 5 2008 3:45PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
http://www.qwizx.com/gssfx/usa/tpirhorns.wav
Sep 5 2008 3:49PM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 32
Did you guys see McCain's speech last night? Oh. My. God. He wasn't even wearing a flag pin!!!!

No Flag Pin (Made in China) = Not ready to lead!!!!!

.........................
Sep 5 2008 5:12PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
They speak french sorta don't they? Close enough.
Sep 5 2008 11:46PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Chile has better healthcare than the US?

I don't think so, that list is bullshit. And they put Dominica up there, that little island probably has only one hospital. Andorra probably only has one hospital too.


Sep 6 2008 12:16AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Dude, we're pretty bad.
Sep 6 2008 12:17AM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Have you been there? Why would it not be better? If you have healthcare, you're lucky...
Sep 6 2008 12:43AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
my middle east policy:

[IMG]tom-phillips.info/images/funny.military/image.09.jpg[/IMG]
Sep 6 2008 12:50AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
I lived 7 years in Chile, and I've been to Andorra briefly. Dominica is on my list of places I want to visit, it looks real nice.

My dad's cousin is one of the top neurologists at Clinica Las Condes in Santiago. Where do you think he studied medicine? The United States. Which country developed the majority of the medicines as well as the techniques used in that hospital? The United States.

Its a fine hospital but I wouldn't want to get caught up with a fatal disease there. Where do people with money go when they have a serious illness? The U.S.

But I now understand why the U.S. is rated so badly. It has a lot to do with the doctor-population ratio. With all the bullshit legalities that U.S. doctors have to go through, it no wonder less and less people are committing themselves to 12 years of school to become a doctor. Being a doctor in the U.S. is easily one of the most stressful jobs imaginable.
Sep 6 2008 8:55AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Okay then Drew. I'll give you a quick lesson in economics.

Creating a comprehensive social healthcare system costs money. This money pays for the benefits bestowed onto everyone, from hospital bills to the price of medicine. Now the majority of people with any concept of money will wonder where the cash comes from to make this work.

Probably the biggest concern among people who want to socialize healthcare is the price of prescription drugs. They argue that prices are too high. The obvious solution if the government chooses to socialize the system is to enforce something called a price ceiling. The price ceiling would push the market below the equilibrium where supply and demand meet. In essence, this would lower the price pharmaceutical companies could charge. That change in price would shrink the profit margin of producing drugs and result in companies simply producing less in order to stay profitable.

Lets also keep in mind the very concept of a socialized healthcare system is to allow everyone access to the same treatment. People who would not normally have the ability to get something would, theoretically, be able to obtain it. This would cause the demand for drugs to increase in order to meet the needs of the system.

Now what happens when the supply from the pharmaceutical companies' gets smaller and the demand from the public gets larger? You have a shortage. The result being not enough medicine/equipment/etc to match the need of the 300 million or so Americans.

Such conditions would make it extremely difficult for the pharmaceutical industry. The 30 or so large companies in that industry would have a much harder time being competitive, both domestically and in the global market. The natural reaction to a shortage is to raise prices, but that cannot happen under a price ceiling. You would then see many of the companies either pull up stakes and move to another country where conditions to produce are easier, or you would see them exit the industry entirely. I would imagine you can grasp the number of problems either of those would cause.

Another thing to consider about such healthcare implementation is that Obama's ideas about taxes will undoubtedly affect the large companies in pharmaceuticals, further applying stress to the industry. Ultimately a price ceiling is only a temporary fix for the market, and any kind of sustaining principle with create more problems than it will fix.

That, good sir, is the connection you are looking for.
Sep 7 2008 4:00PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Sarah Palin is a dumb, trashy whore...and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Sep 7 2008 4:10PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Suddenly, the pharmaceutical companies would find themselves in a strange, parallel universe. One where running a profit on the illness of others is no longer the modus operandi, one where the health of the population is of bigger importance than their bottom line, one where their product must be streamlined and effective, instead of a gimmick and overly expensive.

Suddenly, the pharmaceuticals will remember what they actually are meant to do: cure people of disease, not take their money as they die. If that doesn't awaken any sort of altruistic thoughts, their business wasn't on the best gameplan to actually help people.
Sep 7 2008 4:27PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Great...so what happens when the money runs out?

Medicine isn't conjured out of thin air. It is an expensive process regardless of whether people think it's the "right" thing to do or not. The world does not operate on naive principle that everybody does everything out of the goodness of their heart.

And I suppose you think we can build a kidney dialysis machine simply out of goodwill and rainbows?
Sep 7 2008 4:48PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

Medicine is a dirty world. Dirty old men taking Viagra don't have to pay for those pills, yet a lot of women who want to practice safe sex have to pay for birth control.





[sarcasm]You know how we have "Big Oil"? Well, we'll call this one "Big Dick".[/sarcasm]







Sep 7 2008 5:02PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Why would the money run out? Taxing the upper class more, continued taxation elsewhere, cutting deleterious spending, reworking spending to focus less on defense and more on healthcare...

We're the richest nation in the world, if anyone should have had universal healthcare, it should have been us. The money doesn't just "run out" unless we don't care.
Sep 7 2008 5:33PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Are you kidding? The money runs out because companies cannot sustain themselves by finishing in the red every year. They have to make a profit or they cannot exist.

So then are you saying companies like Pfizer should get government handouts to pay for their losses? Thats absolutely ludicrous. By doing that you not only burn a hole on America's pocket, you also kill any incentive for the industry to perform better (let alone be competitive).
Sep 7 2008 6:38PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Curing disease must have lost its appeal as an incentive.

It only burns a hole in the pocket if the flame already burning is never put out. We could curb spending other places and be able to pay for universal healthcare.

http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=197

The french use taxes to pay for healthcare, as do the swedes. Personally, i'd like my taxes to pay for something that helps everyone, and not the current war, for example.
Sep 7 2008 8:41PM
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canuck
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 137
It has to  pay the bills. If it doesnt then Doctors cant' do it full time and you are not getteng the best and brightest minds because it won't pay like other jobs, ie lawyer.
Sep 7 2008 9:27PM
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SteezyasPie
Posts: 1160 - Karma: 15
and as we all know, nobody wants more lawyers
Sep 7 2008 10:38PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Do you have absolutely no concept of how other human beings think? I'm serious.

I really am having a hard time grasping the notion that you think everyone is selfless. This is not an abstract concept Patty, this is basic human instinct. People aren't going to do things unless they get something out of it. Do you think all the investors and shareholders that have put money into these companies are doing so purely because they want to cure disease? The most common reason people invest in this stuff is because there are potential gains to be had.

Everybody has their own motives for investing. The company itself is obligated to perform well as a business in order to profit the people who gave money or work (in order to enable them to cure diseases) and to maintain a sustainable model (to help enable them to cure diseases in the future).

People are selfish Patty. I understand why you think we as a society need to pay for the healthcare of a single mom raising two kids. However, we would also have to pay the medical bills for the twenty-something single guy who thought it might be a good idea to get shit-house drunk, go for a drive without his seatbelt, and plow into a tree.

You mention countries in Europe and their social healthcare models. Can you also mention the rising costs and the rising number of patients that are straining these systems? Can you imagine what kind of stress such a model would face in a country that is 5 times the population of France, 9 times the population of Canada, and 33 time the population of Sweden?

Who going to pay for it Patty? You expect just the wealthy to pay for the 300 million people in this country? Now how can you tell me that is not selfish? The reality is that everybody would have to pay for it, not just the rich. Costs would go up across the board regardless if you're a patient, doctor, taxpayer, scientist, or a businessmen.
Sep 8 2008 12:28AM
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OneLove_skier
Posts: 1175 - Karma: 135
MILF MILF
Sep 8 2008 12:30AM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Well, I'm not really arguing from a perspective that it will change the way I'd like it to. Trust me, I know that people, and especially the pharmaceuticals, are looking out for number one, end of story.

What I don't want to do is justify that way of working simply because that's the way it is already. I mean, you just said it: it's a selfish business. I'd like to think that there's a better way to run health care than depend on privately owned companies whose final leitmotiv is to benefit its investors. The way I see it, that's the exact opposite of the way it should work. Curing disease shouldn't be a selfish endeavor.

So, I'm not saying that suddenly, these people will be the example of altruism. I'm not gullible. I guess my responses are more from the jaded, disillusioned me, from what I think it should be. I don't hold an illusion that is that way, nor that it will be in my lifetime. I wish healthcare were simply a venture into helping people, and not a way to run a profit. Hell, in a blind utopia, I'd see people being happy to give up their pharmaceutical business, since everyone is healthy and disease has been crushed.

What I do think is that, however twisted the system may still remain, however selfish people will continue to be, there are better ways to alleviate even some of ingrained injustice of health care in this country. And I believe that European models have shown that socialized healthcare, even though it is an economic burden, is a burden worth carrying.

I for one would rather have deficit from socialized health care than from spending on a war. It's like night and day.

No, I don't think the the rich would pay for all of it. Like I said, everyone would still pay taxes, everyone would pay for it, and that means the rich too. They sure don't need any more tax breaks, and no one needs 7 mansions or a 300 000 dollar dress. That kind of excess is simply perverted. I believe there should be a bare minimum vitale for people, especially in health. Education is another, but to be the richest nation in the world and have one of the unhealthiest populations in the world is really sad.

Sure, it would be a tough transition, sure there'd be sacrifices and hardships, and sure, some really rich white guy might lose a zero to his 8 figure salary. But if that means that all Americans can rest assured to be cared for in sickness, that people of all ages and social standing has access to the same treatment, that's a step forward for all, a step backward for some. We would be coming together as a country, though. E pluribus unum? Not right now.

So yeah, I know you're right about how things work. I don't like it, though.
Sep 8 2008 2:10AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Those European models are a joke. The system in the UK is disgraceful, anyone with any money opts for insurance because the socialized system is worthless. The system isn't much better in Sweden and Germany is a joke, they don't even have enough doctors. They are experiencing what is known as a "brain drain" meaning that doctors and other medical professionals are leaving the country in record numbers to find work elsewhere. The goal being to earn a salary they deserve and not the shit pay the bureaucracies decide to pay them.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,399537,00.html
so much for your glorified European models

There's a simple principle in economics that you fail to understand, incentives matter.




And personally, I don't want socialized medicine. Just because you're a citizen of a country does not entitle you to have free health care from the government. The last thing I want is to be paying the majority of my salary in taxes to go to funding the healthcare of every 6 chicano kids every mexican woman pops out over here after she sneaks across the border. Nor do I want to pay for the heart surgeries of the gross amount of morbidly obese people in this country. Health care is not a government issue, despite what you high and mighty Canadians think about your great quality system (the definition of quality here being open to debate). All the American poor should just go to Canada and use your system, everyone's entitled to health care right?

Sep 8 2008 3:06AM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
lol at all the pictures of people that arent sarah palin that people think are her
Sep 8 2008 3:07AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
This is a brilliant piece on socialized medicine from the "Stuff Whit People Love" blog.

Free Healthcare

In spite of having access to the best health insurance and fanciest hospitals, white people are passionate about the idea of socialized medicine. So much so that they have memorized statistics and examples of how for-profit medicine has destroyed the United States.

But before you can exploit this information for personal gain, it’s important that you understand why white people are so in love with free health care.

The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal marijuana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.

These desires were only heightened in 2007 when Michael Moore released “Sicko,” a documentary that contrasts the health care industry in the United States with that of Canada, France and Cuba. As a general rule of thumb, white people are always extra passionate about issues that have been the subject of a Moore documentary. As a test, ask them about 9/11, Gun Control, or Health Care and then say “where did you get that information?” You will not be surprised at the results.

But the secret reason why all white people love socialized medicine is that they all love the idea of receiving health care without having a full-time job. This would allow them to work as a freelance designer/consultant/copywriter/photographer/blogger, open their own bookstore, stay at home with their kids, or be a part of an Internet start-up without having to worry about a benefits package. Though many of them would never follow this path, they appreciate having the option.

If you need to impress a white person, merely mention how you got hurt on a recent trip Canada/England/Sweden and though you were a foreigner you received excellent and free health care. They will be very impressed and likely tell you about how powerful drug and health care lobbies are destroying everything.

Though their passion for national health care runs deep, it is important to remember that white people are most in favor of it when they are healthy. They love the idea of everyone have equal access to the resources that will keep them alive, that is until they have to wait in line for an MRI.

This is very similar to the way that white people express their support for public schools when they don’t have children.


Sep 8 2008 3:19AM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Except, I was born in Europe, raised in Europe, had health concerns in Europe, was treated in Europe, enjoyed socialized health care in Europe and felt that it was a good thing.

I went through the French system and the Swedish system. Both were great. Cheap orthodontia (free in Sweden), cheap fix after i tore my ACL in France, great doctors, allergic reaction treatment.

My experience is this. In France, I could go to a clinic and get stitches for various wounds and pay little. In Sweden I could do the same and pay nothing until 18, then little. In the USA, my parent's health insurance saved a big financial mess when 4 stitches was rounded to 320 bucks in treatment. Without insurance, well, that'd be a big problem.

I don't think it should be or will be 100% free. It isn't that way in Sweden past a certain age. But it should be affordable to everyone.
Sep 8 2008 3:34AM
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