NDC- Obama's Speech

anybody who is arguing that raising taxes for the wealthy helps clearly has no grasp of economics or accounting. No matter how much money I make, I will always pay less tax, percentage wise, than you, because I understand how money and taxes work. Accounting should be a required class in high school, that would help a hell of a lot more economically than any tax cuts or increases.

as for debating between the two. Obama can speak. he cannot debate. He has no real stance on any issues, he attempts to appeal to everybody. That is his strategy, and its working so far, but it will backfire if he wins office and is stuck trying to appease everybody and actually pissing off everybody who voted for him. McCain, no matter how much you disagree with him, you know where he stands. He has repeatedly stated what he thinks on key issues, and that makes him "the lesser of two evils" simply because anybody can know what he thinks. obama is a blank slate, a ticking bomb. You don't know what you're putting into office. it could be good, it could be bad. but you don't know. which is the issue I have.

again, not voting for mccain either, just expressing my opinion. and yes I am registered to vote, even though my vote doesn't count. I just want to pencil in a name that I believe in.

anyone who owns a resort or a ski company for that matter should support McCain.

yes you are so right, only low lives that dont want to elect a man who voted 90% of the time with/for george bush(mccain) you ignorant fuck

^ alot of people voted for 90% of the same shit that bush proposed, you ignorant fuck

except obama.......... so vote for mccain!!! great point btw

OBAMAGASM!!!! how do they feel?

yes he did, after 9-11 almost everyone voted for the patriot act on both republican and democratic parties......

obama wasn't a senator after 9-11. he was in 2004, not 2001.

YES!


thanks drew!


i believe he voted to extend the patriot act..... (directed at whomever you quoted)
because he was not in the senate right after 9-11.....

exactly he voted for the patriot act reauthorization bill "that included three key changes designed to prevent abuse of authority by law enforcement", but mccain also voted for this bill, so this argument on the patriot act is pointless, but the war in iraq however is not a pointless argument

McCain's stance on the war in iraq is that us troops must remain in iraq until victory, but the sad thing is there is no victory in sight and never will be

sadly im starting to think so.......

funny, but fake

http://www.cato.org/videohighlights/index.php?highlight_id=36

believe me, i am not trying to play "gotcha" politics, but what do you call this?

Obama has made A HUGE shift on the war, and if i were a hillary supporter I WOULD BE PISSED, because one of his defining issues that helped him beat her in the primary's was the stance on the war that was, "they are gone with in 16 months"     i dont need to go through his new plan for you, because you know his new plan...
Obama wants US troops out of Iraq by early 2008

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jan/31/usa.iraq



o BTW, this is your newspaper right?

but believe me when i say. i am not trying to play "gotcha" because i know there will be a time where the same type of situation will come back to bite me right in the ass....

i know nobody is being taxed to death literally. its just a saying. my point is why should people who make more than 250k a year be taxed more heavily. its their money let them do what they wish with it. and obama claims like no other.he keeps talking about all these great things hes gonna spend tons of money on while lowering middle class taxes.  sorry but you cant spend money you dont have.

tax the rich more because they actually worked to get where they are. Why is there punishment and since when did this country reward excellence with financial bloodletting. Illegal aliens and lazy wastes of space squatters who aren't mentally or physically handicapped but still have no jobs leech the shit out of this country. In massachusetts, we all pay taxes so that Dev(il)al Patrick can give shitloads of handouts to people who aren't even citizens of this country, not to mention pardons on crimes just because they are minorities. Or in other parts of this country (san fran) where illegals who have murdered innocent americans get safe harbor from the justice (death penalty) they deserve for taking others lives. When did this country get so fucking soft on this shit. Our colleges allow known communists and cop killers to teach in lecture halls while at the same time bar any kind of conservative from speaking. We spend so much fucking time worrying about educating the world in our schools that we turn a blind eye to US veterans who need a break paying for college. But they can't get a break because some people believe that the poor, helpless illegal immigrants and idle trash that are overpopulating this country deserve handouts while saying "fuck you" to those of us who actually work hard for things in life.

again I say, tax the rich as much as you want and the poor as little as you insist upon, the rich will still pay less because they understand how the system works. for fucks sake. let the tax break thing go. the poor deserve more taxes because they didn't educate themselves on money. its not hard. incorporate. fuck.

sorry i've been doing corporate accounting homework for at least 14 hours now so i'm tired, wired, and cranky all at the same time, and ignorance to how taxes work is pissing me off. my bad. i'm gonna go sleep. /rant

2004 is after 2001 you dumb fuck.

But i guess i know what you saying, but technically..

that was the most ignorant, retarded thing i have ever heard

hahah dude, I meant that he wasn't in office after the event. so funny, of course 2004 is after 2001

and thats why you will never be rich and are destined to remain middle class the rest of your life

amen!

what the fuck. so people are poor because they dont know money. not because the president for the last 8 years has run our economy into the ground. millions of lost jobs. the housing market is a disaster. but no, its because they dont know money

The president that this country elected both times you moron. Blaming bush for everything is so in vogue these days it makes me sick to my stomach. Shut the fuck up and stop whining

the housing market is not a disaster at all, its a fucking godsend, if you understand how money works. I just bought my first investment property two weeks ago, a 150 thousand warehouse forclosure for 15 grand. i put in another 5 thousand in repairs, put it back on the market for 120, sell for 100, i'm up 80 grand in less than a month. I am a full time student and have a full time job. my job income is around 40,000 pre-tax, but I filed an llc temp agency that i own and work for which all my income is funnelled through. I end up after all my expenses with less than 5000 of taxable income, because that falls under the 5,100 something minimum, I pay no taxes at all except social security and medicare. legally. and all that takes is a semester of accounting to know how to do. and 50 dollars for the incorporation. if everybody knew how to do that, nobody would bitch about taxes. and maybe you should quit blaming the president for the economy and look at other issues, such as america's better than you attitude towards everybody else on earth. like china, we keep talking shit, while china grew up silently, and is now poised to take over the world economy. We are headed the same direction as the british empire of the late 19th century

^ love the sig dude. nOpe 08

It doesn't matter what I make, not that its any of your business. A liberal system will always reward the poor at the expense of the rich, regardless of whatever effort anybody actually puts into earning money. The point is that the Democrats' concept of a balancing a budget thats already broken is taxing more rather than spending less, which is asinine.

I disagree with 90% of your post, but the shit at the end is basically 100% true. Our days of being the most powerful nation in the world are coming to an end fucking quick if we don't change things.

WOW you are really angry and really miss guided!! you must get your info on the world from Fox News!!

I am really in awh that it is 2008 and people especially young people are still really that racist that they won't vote for someone because of the color of their skin. What has happened to you in your life that has made you dislike people just purely based on skin color. I guess the world hasn't changed very much has it.

its a fucking godsend for you. if you like to take advantage of the fact that millions have lost their homes. do you think they think its a godsend? ummm no

Why?

let me take a stab in the dark and say TAXES!

Explain that to me. Really. What the logic here?

Negligible? While you may not care much about where your money goes, I happen to care a great deal about my own money. More taxes are more taxes, regardless of whether I'll end up paying a few hundred, or thousands, on top of what I already have to. Healthcare for construction workers? What about my own healthcare? Call me selfish, but I happen to be a bit more concerned about my own heath than some random construction worker in Florida that I've never even heard of.

And while you're on the idea of assuming...lets also assume for a second that we're all equally naive and believe the government would use that extra tax revenue on a program that actually works. Yeah, right. I can't wait for that social security check in 40/50 years thats going to be worth less than the paper its printed on. The fact of the matter is that I trust my personal judgment and spending habits a lot more than a bunch of under-worked and over-paid and bureaucrats in DC. Seriously, how often do insurance companies screw people? Would you actually believe the government would be any different?

Further more, whats the incentive to work hard towards getting a higher paying job if all it means is getting taxed more? Most people typically don't want to make a career out of digging ditches, myself included. Do I work my way up the ladder until I'm offered a job opportunity that pays six figures, yet decline because that would push me into a higher, much more heavily burdened, tax bracket? Or should I just suck it up and take the heavy hit because I'm apparently crazy enough to do everything out of the bunny loving goodness of my heart...even if its involuntary and at my own expense?

its not eliminating the class gap. you still will make more money. so yeah you should still probably work hard, because youll still make more money

im going to break it down as best i can for you...... obama likes taxes, company's dont like taxes.....

windfall profit tax what??!!  

From what I've seen, Obama's plan isnt THAT different from McCains... if anything, its more tax cuts to 'middle class' people, which engage in recreation, buy lift tickets and increase business at ski areas.

also to companies that keep their people here, in this country, rather than outsource. and small up and coming buisnesses

well you see, Barack hates big business, and their are a bunch of BIG business ski resorts, "vail resorts" intra west"  killington's family, just to name a few, so taxing big business will have an effect of these company's..........

who knows, maybe he only hate the oil company's?

But see, based on the logic that you didnt bother to read in my last post, ski areas could get more money with the tax cuts.

Look, when it comes down to it, its bullshit speculation. Unless you have some sort of political crystal ball, you cannot definitively bet how one candidates election will impact an industry when so many other external factors (like for instance, the weather and what kind of snow we have this year perhaps?) have such greater an impact. Honestly, I think its idiotic to claim that one candidate is better 'for skiers' than another.

Thats not the point. The point is to whether its worth someone's time to work harder and push themselves into the higher tax bracket. Its basically being punished for being more productive. Sure you make more, but after all the extra work is it really worth making slightly more than you would being less productive and in a lower tax bracket?

i believe it was "ski area's"  not skiers......  and what is a ski area? a business....


and yes, you can bet, on certain industry's doing better under different administrations....

take the oil company's for example... im not going to re hash the whole debate, but you are smart enough to connect the dots...








Enact a Windfall Profits Tax to Provide a $1,000 Emergency Energy Rebate to American Families:Barack Obama will enact a windfall profits tax on excessive oil company profits to give American families an immediate $1,000 emergency energy rebate to help families pay rising bills. This relief would be a down payment on Obama's long-term plan to provide middle-class families with at least $1,000 per year in permanent tax relief.

Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

all i see on his website is, spend spend spend spend SPEND... and how do you pay for spending? you raise taxes... and so far, we have tax the rich, and tax the oil company's..... who is next on the list? because if i were in either of these classes, i would seriously consider moving my money OUT OF AMERICA... taking away a huge portion of capital that america needs to fuel our consumer driven society,....... 

quick question, what do the rich do with the money THEY MAKE?  they spend it on nice things like boats, cars, houses, SKIING... while what happens when the rich spend money in these areas? good middle class jobs are created..... jobs in the car industry, jobs in the building industry, well ski bums dont make tons of money, but if it wernt for the rich spending money, they wouldnt even have a job....





lets also examine the idea of "taxing the rich"

This year's numbers show that both the income share earned by the top 1 percent of tax returns and the tax share paid by that top 1 percent have once again reached all-time highs. In 2006, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 39.9 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.1 percent of adjusted gross income, both of which are significantly higher than 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

The top-earning 25 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $64,702) earned 68.2 percent of the nation's income, but they paid more than four out of every five dollars collected by the federal income tax (86.3 percent). The top 1 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $388,806) earned approximately 22.1 percent of the nation's income (as defined by AGI), yet paid 39.9 percent of all federal income taxes. That means the top 1 percent of tax returns paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95 percent of tax returns.


pay speacial attention to this one...

The IRS data also shows increases in individual incomes across all income groups (see Table 3). Just as the highest earners lost the biggest percentage of their incomes during the recession of 2001, so they have prospered the most as the economy continued to rebound through 2006. For example, from 2000 to 2002, the AGI of the top 1 percent of tax returns fell by over 26 percent. In that same period, the AGI of the bottom 50 percent of tax returns actually increased by 4.3 percent. However, since 2002, as the recession has ended, AGI has risen by over 81 percent for the top 1 percent (an average of over 20 percent per year) and 17 percent (an average of around 4 percent per year) for the bottom 50 percent.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

Wow, so more of the same idea we've had the last 8 years? Oh yeah, it definitely works.

well you see, bush spent our country into the ground, much like obama wants to.....


this is my biggest beef with the current admin, they stabbed fiscal conservatives in the back, by plunging this country into debt....


ive said it once, and i will say it again, i would be fine with higher taxes FOR ALL, if the money could go strictly to paying down the debt, and after that, taxes go down.....

Well at least we agree that we need to repay this debt.

finally, somebody that is educated.
thanks for that.

an accounting class should be a required class as a senior credit in highschool or as a college freshman credit.

1 class is all you need to understand the nature of money. or if not that class have a required income tax class. again, 1 semester is all you need to know the basics.

i know most of the people on this site live at home, have never looked at what they pay in taxes (well, you dont really pay any taxes), but for the rest of us that are old enough to do our own taxes or are responsible for paying taxes should understand what our tax system is comprised of. you cant cut the "poor's" taxes anymore because they DONT PAY ANY TAXES. educated your dam selfs on our tax system.

Obama is all for more money for our schools, more money for teachers and is all for a better educated nation. more power too him. mabey if he made it mandatory to learn an accounting or tax class (or any candidate for that matter),that would be a step in the right direction. the answer is not more money (that will help, but wont fix it), the answer is how we get the kids educated.

I really hate accounting, but I am going to force myself to take that class.