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JJ vs. S6 vs Helix... + karma

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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10

Ok... This is my last thread (of three) on which i am asking for advice on which ski to buy...  I have narrowed it down to The 09 JJ, The 09 Helix or the 09 S6/ 08 Steeze.... (going to try and find some on a website?)  I am 6'2 and i weigh 145 lbs.... I tend to like stiff skis but will not mind if it has a medium flex...  I live in the east coast and want this as my all mountain stuff for groomers , east coast crud (like thick thick powder stuff) and powder for my trips out west this year.... ( i have 2).... I will also be going to Chile for next summer for a week or two.... This would be my daily driver with exception on days when im going to ski park and bumps.... (i have 1st generation scratches for that which will work)..... I dont know much about next years JJ but apparently it holds an edge on hardpack and groomers well... If anyone knows anything about the JJ it would be much appreciated.... I know more about S6 and Helix but if anyone has info i would love to hear it....

And also... i dont want a used ski so nobody ask if i would like to buy an old pair of steezes or helixs... thankyou...

Aug 20 2008 5:07PM
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Reed.
Posts: 4489 - Karma: 272
the JJ for this upcoming season are rockered...you sure you want that ripping groomers and hard packed powder. I hate to mention another ski... but Line's Sir Francis Bacon? If I were you, I'd look into a normal cambered ski. Another ski that comes to mind is the Scott P4. I would only get the JJs if I lived on a resort with a lot of powder.

Out of the skis you mentioned, I would go with the Helix, Liberty is becoming a very legit company with great skis. The helix should be just fine for what youre doing with it.
Aug 20 2008 7:27PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
Im skiing lots of everywhere i guess.... Im taking 2 trips out west ... might be going to switserland.... might be going to chile.... and im skiing a lot in stowe, mad river glen, jay peak but also some okemo, killington, loon and i may also go to tremblant for a few days...
Aug 20 2008 7:39PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
and i dont want SFB b/c wayyy too soft.
Aug 20 2008 7:39PM
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SoupCurry
Posts: 1847 - Karma: 731
im rocking the JJs right now...super dope all around, you can even shralp up the groomers. you'd be a fool not to buy them
Aug 20 2008 7:43PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
the jj's are rockered, yes, but if you knew anything about the construction of the jj's for this year you would not be using groomers as an argument for this guy not to get those skis.  they aren't your traditional rockered ski.
Aug 20 2008 8:15PM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12811 - Karma: 1,971
rocker=less area on the ground, this means less edge on the ice he will inevitably encounter on the east coast, also the weird sidecut doesn't help with groomers, its basically just an added portion that makes them manageable at the end of a pow day when everything is skied out. he also said he likes stiffer. i would got for the steeze/S6 or maybe even ANTs if doesn't have a problem with a little extra length (a lot of people over on TGR love them as an everyday ski).
Aug 20 2008 8:31PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
I would also look at the Huge Trouble. because they are fucking awesome.
Aug 20 2008 8:45PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
wait.... so will JJs suck on groomers? or be okay?
Aug 20 2008 10:52PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,016
They will be ok if groomers don't involve lost of ice.

Basically meaning ok on the west coast, difficult on the easy coast.
Aug 20 2008 10:58PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
damn.... jjs look sick but ill probly see some ice.... but they seem like theyd be best for powder?
Aug 20 2008 11:25PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
bump.
Aug 22 2008 4:49PM
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dave_m
Posts: 76 - Karma: 16
The JJ has a host of new technologies that could make it something of a landmark ski - elf shoe technology, "resort rocker" etc. Check out the website for an explanation. It is supposedly able to handle groomers exceptionally when compared to other rockered pow skis. All the reviews I've read on the ski have been very complimentary.

The S6 seems a lot of ski for what you talk about skiing. It is effectively Sage's big mountain ski, it's fairly stiff, doesn't have the smallest urning radius - it's a big mountain charger.

It seems to me for what you describe as teh skiing you will do you are looking at a range of fairly inappropriate skis. Personally I am going with the Line Sir Francis Bacons. They are a medium - soft flex and the eliptical sidecut means they have a turning radius of 18m. I'd say that they would be better suited to what you are asking for - effectively  a fat ski that can handle the whole mountain.

If you still are set on a rockered ski jj's or a cheaper option might be the moment bibby.
Aug 22 2008 5:10PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,016
The turn radius of the s7(think you are talking about this ski, not the s6) is only 18m.....not exact huge. Also because the running length is so short it makes the radius even feel smaller. But because the ski has so much taper it allows you to point it without much concequence I suspect. And the sfb has elliptical sidecut and whatever radius it has, not because of it. Anyway, the sfb sounds like a good option.
Aug 22 2008 5:31PM
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DangerToes
Posts: 1042 - Karma: 33
^well he already said he didnt want the sfbs, but whatever high five right? Ive heard the helixes are nice and poppy, personally I like a damper ski for powder but that might just be preference. You really cant go wrong with rossis, Im one that loves to knock bigger companies but rossis have always ridden and held up great for me, the s6 (i guess ive only ridden the steeze, but same thing i think?) are pretty easy to drive, fun ski and sounds like a good choice for you.
Aug 22 2008 8:09PM
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tjsnover
Posts: 1361 - Karma: 42
kung fujas or obsethed(95 and 105 underfoot respectively) might be more versitile?
Aug 22 2008 8:28PM
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freeballer
Posts: 726 - Karma: 960
Go with the Helix, no question.  It rips on groomers and is still really fat for deep powder.  Plus, Liberty has the best customer service hands down and backs them up with a 3 year warranty.  Super core.  Check out the magazine reviews on the Helix.
Aug 22 2008 9:59PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
I have heard SFB are too wide for all mountain but ive never skied them.... ive just heard that theyre VERY soft... and i tend to like stiffer skis.... But im starting to wonder if Helixs might be right.... but im still not sure about JJs because im nearly positive they would be the best for powder (same with SFB) but for the many days that there will be ice im not sure still?  The S6s are also 1100$ which is WAY out of my budget... does anyone know anything about salomon  czars though? ive heard theyre great...
Aug 22 2008 11:02PM
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yeahitsdave
Posts: 1315 - Karma: 10
s6's arent gonna be that much, and u can prolly pick up sone steeze's for even cheaper. id roll the dice with the helix's or go really big and and dabble with some double helix's. bamboo laminate construction, uhmw sidewalls for dampness, super poppy, and on the double helix u get a race base. whats not to love? (oh right, the fact that they keep reusing the same graphics)
Aug 22 2008 11:19PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
haha i actually dont mind the helix/double helix topsheet.... theres something nice about not having the most colorful topsheet on the mountain (the steezes haha) but im worried the double helix at 120 underfoot is too much ski for me.... i only weigh 145 and also..... im just thinking that it might be too fat for in the east here
Aug 22 2008 11:21PM
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yeahitsdave
Posts: 1315 - Karma: 10
drink some milk and eat some meat, get your weight up. i love fat skis, so id go fat, but we dont carry liberty at my shop, so i couldnt get them anyway (without paying retail). at 6'2 u've got to have a long inseam, which means u shouldnt have too much trouble tipping anything on edge as long as ur a reasonably competent skier (technically, not in the park)
Aug 22 2008 11:52PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
there is really no reason to go over 115 for any ski that is not pure powder. I have tried it and it sucks. People ski them and say they rip because they think it adds inches to their dick, their wrong and full of shit. The Helix sounds like it could rip. As for the Bacon, I have seen some one rip the shit out of crud with it. Also there is no way the s6 will actually cost $1100, it will retail for $600-$700 probably. It can deffinatly shred all mountain.

The 'Elf shoe' technology is just another word for taper, like you will find on the s7, ARG, Brocker, and other simmilar skis. The 'resort rocker' just means smaller rocker and it still makes the ski less stable, just not as much as the rocker on say the Hell Bents or Pontoons.  Over all the JJ will be the worst out of the three on anything other then soft snow, the other three (s6, Helix and Bacons) will hold their own in soft snow too,


Aug 23 2008 12:26AM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
Ok... so JJs are not right for me.... if i lived out west i would instantly buy them.... I talked to one of my friends who owns SFB and he said i might actually like them b/c i dont normally ski on soft skis but i once skied on his invaders and loved them... but can all three (s6, helix and SFB) make really quick turns for tight glades or not so much? thanks
Aug 23 2008 1:32PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
also... what about Salomon czars, scott P4s or fatypus dsender?
Aug 23 2008 2:12PM
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freeballer
Posts: 726 - Karma: 960
I've never ridden the Czar or D-Sender, but the D-Sender is supposed to be a pretty dope ski.  It's much wider than the P4 and Helix.  The P4 is a little too soft in the tails for my liking, which is fun in deep pow but sometimes landing in the backseat sucks on it compared to my Helix.  My vote is still for the Helix.  It has a P-tex 4000 race base, just like the Double Helix and performs so well on icy conditions for a ski that wide.  But I've been eying that D-Sender as well, but have never got the chance to ride it.
Aug 23 2008 2:56PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10

ok p4s sound like something i wouldnt like then.... only problem with dsenders is that their expensive 875 is all i could find.... im thinking Helixs sound pretty solid.... does anyone know when next years ones go on sale .... i couldnt find a place that had em.... also.... im still interested in s6 and czars and i had a change of heart and might consider SFB if i hear more bout em...

Aug 23 2008 3:12PM
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dave_m
Posts: 76 - Karma: 16
Having looked at the same range of skis I thought the s6 was a great option until I saw the price. It is marked at $1100 althought I'm sure you'll be able to find it for cheaper - think I saw them for $800 but I can't remember where.

The czar's look awesome, I ruled them out simply becuase they are a bit short for me - 182cm with a 620mm rocker at the tip. Also slightly large turning radius. Considering Mike Douglas claims they handle particularly well on groomers (in the sia vid) a 40m turn radius is suprising, although it won't make much difference in pow.

To be honest i reckon the skis you've narrowed it down to would all be great.
Aug 23 2008 3:29PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
haha i keep saying im "narrowing it down" but i keep adding more skis into consideration..... i just got off the phone with fatypus and they said the dsender would be a great option and the people there are very friendly....   i have also found another website where i found last years dsender for 550... cant tell sorry if anyone else is looking.... just that theres only one left.... but its down to dsender, czar s6 and helix.... and thats final im not lookign at anymore skis.... or else this thread will be neverending....
Aug 23 2008 4:14PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
Does anyone ski dsenders and have a review? or any of the above skis....
Aug 23 2008 7:59PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
ok wow.... sorry to respond 3 times in a row but i thought i would say that im not considering czars anymore because i just went to salomons website and they gave it an "on piste" rating of 50% and i would want at least a 75 + on piste rating... so its dsenders, helix, s6s now....
Aug 23 2008 9:55PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
bump.... anyone know when libertys will be available... (next years)   ? i tried calling but noone picked up
Aug 24 2008 3:55PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10

Ok.... 5 posts.....  new record... sorry if this is annoying.... but... Im buying the skis either tonight or tomorow morning....  my dad is buying them for me (im 17) and its between Fat-ypus D-senders, Rossignol S6, Liberty Helix (dont know if i can get them since theyre not on sale yet!? and im buying tomorow latest) and Line SFB... reason im considering SFB again is cuz i think i might have A LOT of fun on the soft skis .... PLEASE give me input b/c im still not sure....  Also these will be 75% east coast conditions (ice ,east coast crud, some powder, hardpack) and 25% west coast/ europe powder...

I can get my skis for these prices:

2009 D-Sender: 875$
2008 D-Sender: 550$
2009 S6: $750
2009 SFB: 500$

Thankyou....

Also.... what would i mount these fat skis with? any recomendations?

Aug 24 2008 5:23PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
frustration bump.
Aug 24 2008 6:42PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
PLEASE.... my dad REALLY wants us to get them tonight or early tomorow morning before we both go to work..... please respond saying which one you think i should get and why.... thanks
Aug 24 2008 8:18PM
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Codfish.
Posts: 529 - Karma: 22
if the S6 are like the steez then they should be great cause i have only heard good things aobut them
Aug 24 2008 8:29PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
ok but ive only heard good stuff bout dsenders too..... and it seems like everyone is raving about the bacons....
Aug 24 2008 8:40PM
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Where-am-I
Posts: 1635 - Karma: 281
exactly they are a backcountry/ powder ski that can ski soft groomers if you have to
Aug 24 2008 8:47PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
ok well jjs are outta the question..... and so are helixs cuz im getting them tonight or tomorow morn.... but still i think i might have most fun on bacons? but not sure? and i feel like the fatypus would hold a really good edge on groomers and everyone who skis em love em it seems like. but everyone also loves s6s?
Aug 24 2008 8:53PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
will bacons be bad on ice cuz i just looked at a review of first generation ones and it says there horendous on ice.
Aug 24 2008 9:16PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
will bacons be bad on ice cuz i just looked at a review of first generation ones and it says there horendous on ice.
Aug 24 2008 9:16PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
?  bump.... sorry im just kinda in a panic right now...
Aug 24 2008 10:12PM
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DangerToes
Posts: 1042 - Karma: 33
i hate to be "that guy" but ive read everything here several times and honestly you should just go with the 4frnt vcts in a 189, theyre the best ski ive ever ridden (i have ridden a lot of skis), dont worry about the length, they ride a touch short, and they have the best grip on ice of any fat ski ive ever used. if you really dont want to though, go with the s6 or steeze, honestly the best built ski that will last you the longest and perform best out of the bunch. i hate recommending big companies but rossignol does know their shit. so pretty much, just buy last years vcts, you wont regret it, you can get them for 400 or less, just look around, they are absolutely your best option, if not, go with the rossis, theyre legit too.
Aug 24 2008 10:34PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10

im  not much of a 4frnt person but i really appreciate your help.... I have taken your other advice and decided to purchase the rossignol s6 in a 185 length.... Thanks everyone for all of their help.... + karma for all...

Aug 25 2008 9:19AM
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freeballer
Posts: 726 - Karma: 960
Why are you in a panic?  It's August.  Are you heading to South America or NZ soon?  All of the skis you are interested in will be available in a month or so, if not way sooner.
Aug 25 2008 12:14PM
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powder_freak
Posts: 59 - Karma: 10
My dad wanted me to get them for my birthday and he wanted to get them like NOW for some reason... (idk stubborn old man).... but hes still the man for getting me skis haha
Aug 25 2008 12:40PM
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