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Analogy: Communism Vs Capitalism

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rebel
Posts: 5198 - Karma: 22
Spawned by Anson's love for communism, here are my thoughts in a simple analogy that I think everyone can relate to.

Communism:
You have a group project and meet twice a week for three months to discuss the overall project and give input on group members individual responsibilities. One guy (let's call him Joe) in the group shows up to a total of two meetings, but did everything he was responsible for. When completed, the project is an A except for the parts completed by Joe, which got a B. The over all project mark is an A-. Is it fair for Joe to receive the same A- as everyone else in the group?

Capitalism:
The same project as above, but one or two guys in the group do all the work and won't let anyone help, give any input or even listen to their ideas. Is it fair for the the guys who did all the work to get an A and for the rest of the group to get a C?

Conclusion:
Communism can suck my balls. The american dream can suck my balls. And while we're at it, dictatorships can suck my balls and democracies can suck my balls.
- - - - -
'The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses.' - A. Hiedler
Oct 23 2003 2:43PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
communism is extreme leftist beliefs, and for 'lack of better terms' capitalism is more on the right side of the scale. You cant soar with only one wing, the moral of the story? Become center, and become socialist capitalist.


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 23 2003 2:48PM
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RideBLUNT
Posts: 3393 - Karma: 11
^^ petek knows whats up, social capitalism, except there are still those damn slackers in tha group that just smoke bud all day and get money from social services as in ever country...


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Oct 23 2003 3:01PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
human nature stops governments from being perfect.

Coming Soon...
Oct 23 2003 3:50PM
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lagwagon
Posts: 2074 - Karma: 15
communism is fucked, capitalism is more fucked.
KILL ALL THE WHITE MAN!
Oct 23 2003 5:46PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
that explains why there has never been a communist government...and why the most powerful countries in the world are capitalist or becoming capitalist

concept108 is a fag
Oct 23 2003 5:48PM
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Swirly999
Posts: 2833 - Karma: 10
anyone who has read Animal Farm knows that people are to damn greedy to run a communist government. I mean damn in that book pigs couldn't even handle running the farm and thier just pigs.

And the stupid government we got running the country now is just bullshit. We ahve a group of people elected by the electoral college shit, which is really supposed to be the people but isn't its all just one big damn conspiracy but thats just my opinion




Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live. At least a while. And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take
our lives, but they'll never take our freedom?!
Oct 23 2003 5:56PM
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lizziebeth
Posts: 1596 - Karma: 22
i say we just kill off the slackers. or is that what darwin says??

anyway, communism as marx meant it will work in under developed countries. there is a point though where an economy cannot grow without a free market.

*******************
'I don't eat some nights and my dad buys a TT.'
-Dar
Oct 23 2003 6:24PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Yeah last time I checked Cuba was still communist but thanks for coming out.
Oct 23 2003 11:29PM
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Skibum420
Posts: 1838 - Karma: 314
Rebel you always have something good to say im just to tired to read at this point.. ill check it out tomorrow

I have never poured out beer, even to put out a grass fire-Hank Hill
Oct 24 2003 12:17AM
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221
Posts: 3488 - Karma: 11
most people arent ready for a proper government system. they're too selfish and paranoid and intolerant. Current systems use hegemony to beat citizens into submission, on the upside, capitalism requires little effort and responsibility from the average person. There are much better ways, but they involve a little more effort, the payoff is huge increases in personal freedom and reduced government spending and reduced need for centralized government. I think the bulk of society is still too irresponsible, but making slow progress toward being capable of running their own lives instead of being hand-fed and kicked around like dogs.

----------------------
'Dude, check out this nasty gouge.'
'Your mom has a nasty gouge.'

'your posts would usually get me in trouble in school when i get on NS' -ReggaeConcept

'you lazy asshole' -Crystal-needs-a-park
Oct 24 2003 12:52PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
no, cuba is a totalitarian dictatorship that calls itself socialist.

and marx never said anything about communism, he just wrote about the downfall of capitalism due to its quest for short term profits. It had more to do with 'developed' countries than undeveloped ones.

concept108 is a fag
Oct 24 2003 10:43PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
communism is a totalitarean democracy, historically anyways. I believe that castro wanted an elected government, but it was delayed, and then when the russians offered them an alliance, time was running out, so he became the dictator of cuba, with no chance of elections.


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 24 2003 10:46PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
democracy is not a valid way to describe communism. the theory is that once global socialism was achieved, the entire world would move to communism, without any leadership at all. Everyone would have their place, everyone would be content. This clearly didn't work, it relied on world domination.

concept108 is a fag
Oct 24 2003 10:53PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
^ ur a fucking retard you said that no governments have been communistic? Maybe you shouldnt post until you finish middle school yeah thats a valid rule.


The Olson twins are Michelle you sick little baby fuckers.

The Jews invented tornados.
Oct 24 2003 10:57PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
there was never a democratic communist government, democratic socialist yes.


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 24 2003 10:58PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13

communistic: Of, characteristic of, or inclined to communism.

yes, a number of countries have been communistic, but none have achieved true communism.

concept108 is a fag
Oct 24 2003 11:06PM
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F5*
Posts: 1595 - Karma: 54
you need leaders to rule people. without rulers there will be anarch. The goverment needs checks and balances so that they dont become corrupt. with communism, the goverments usually become corrupt because they have unlimited power and no one it there to check them,


carrots handbag cheese
Oct 25 2003 12:00AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
you mean socialism, but yes, i agree.

concept108 is a fag
Oct 26 2003 12:30AM
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Anson
Posts: 1348 - Karma: 11
Gaaah.. you guys still don't get (most of you).

Communism, true communism, has no need for government. Not possible you say? Why not? The only reason governments are corrupt is for 2 reasons. 1) Money, communist societies have no money, 2) ambition and power, in a communist society, there is no power and no ambition. Ambition, power and money are all capitalistic things.

Before the idea of communism was ever put down onto paper, peoples all over the world have continually put it into use and have never had any problems. Most of the native american tribes were in a way 'communist'.

When I say I'm a communist, it doesn't mean I'm going to drop a nuke on you. It doesn't mean I speak russian, or fight guerrilla wars agains't the government. I uphold most of the same ideologies that great leaders all over the world have shared. I am a pacifist like Gandhi, a warrior like Che, a humanitarian like Bethune.

Communism, as most people conceive it, is totally the wrong way to look at it.

Damn, I wan't my name to be pink.
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Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Oct 26 2003 12:45AM
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Capurnicus
Posts: 9947 - Karma: 1,886
^ You have no idea what-so-ever what you're talking about. You're not an idealistic rebel. You're not one of those charimatic free thinkers leading the rest of us against what we've already screwed up by conforming to.

You are a moron.

- Patrick·patproductions.com
Looks like rain to me.
Oct 26 2003 12:49AM
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Anson
Posts: 1348 - Karma: 11
fuck i hope your being sarcastic
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Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Oct 26 2003 12:49AM
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sherLocke
Posts: 4701 - Karma: 8
anson has a good point. and when most people in the united states hear the word communism thoughts of bombs, russians, 'the red scare' and overall negativity are conjured up. people are so afraid of communism when they know absolutely nothing about it. if people weren't so competitive all the time, and always had to uphold the idea that somebody has to be below them then communism and socialism would work great. the majority of the human race is not cooperative in nature and rather competitive therefore it just fails miserably when introduced into a complex society.



i think i think i like it like thata
*Official Martha Stewert of NS*
Oct 26 2003 11:32AM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
communism works in small communities, but the larger it gets, the more it has a chance to deteriorate. It will also never work because not everybody IS equal. In the words of orwell 'some animals are more equal than others'


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 26 2003 12:07PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
and thats exactly why i am socialist, not communist.


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 26 2003 12:34PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
'Communism, true communism, has no need for government. Not possible you say? Why not? The only reason governments are corrupt is for 2 reasons. 1) Money, communist societies have no money, 2) ambition and power, in a communist society, there is no power and no ambition. Ambition, power and money are all capitalistic things.'

True, ideal communism has no need for government, but ideal communism is just that, ideal. In every 'communist' (meaning socialist) nation there has been a polarization in the society, between those in power, and those without power. Now while we would all like to see those in power eventually yield to the majority, people in power have no reason to give it up (it's human nature).

While communism may seem perfect in itself, the changes necessary to achieve it from our current society are near impossible to implement around the world. So for a while, yes, you would NEED socialism, before communism could really take effect.

Ambition is human nature, not simply a capitalist ideal.

For the record, I am basing this on large-scale communism as a socioeconomic and political agenda for the world, not as a localized 'commune' system.

concept108 is a fag
Oct 26 2003 3:07PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
^thank you...


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 26 2003 3:22PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
uh...
most native american tribes were NOT communist, they always had a tribal leader of some sort

concept108 is a fag
Oct 26 2003 3:30PM
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ReggaeConcept1
Posts: 2987 - Karma: -22
communism can be summed up into really one sentence: 'Communism is wonderful in theory, but would never work in real life.' there has never been a true communist state and there has never been a sucessful communist state. socialism, if given the right conditions, would work but would require such drastic changes that it would be impractical for the people who start it.




********************
Formerly NOFXpunkAF

Representing the KPP
Oct 26 2003 3:35PM
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SkiSundownJibber
Posts: 1013 - Karma: 19
two words to solve the disorganization of mankind: benevolent dictatorship.
Oct 26 2003 4:12PM
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DRISKEY
Posts: 2969 - Karma: 14
the world will inevitably slowly change to socialism, then communism, and eventually anarachy. I think the US is a complete fuck ass of a country and we need to stop going to war to prevent communism. Because the only way communism could really work is if the whole world changes to communism because the world relies too much on international trade. and a country with out money cant trade.
also some one else said that human nature prevents government from being perfect. i think its the other way around. government prevents human nature from being perfect.

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ElasmoSKIEROates: I really don't care what people on NS think at all anymore
ElasmoSKIEROates: they can all lick my nonexistant sweaty nut sack
Oct 26 2003 4:13PM
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therealjerk
Posts: 2806 - Karma: 26
OK, i just read c_lo's comment and skipped down here. Like my American Political System prof says 'The only real remaining communists in the world are on college campuses. How many milliseconds do you think it will take for Cuba to change once Fidel dies? And North Korea? Hah! No ruler with a haircut that bad rules by anything other than force.' Communism is supposed to work... just like Marx said, a few hundred years after its started and therefore its like a moot philosophy because people will not put up with a couple centuries of suffering so things can get better once their dead. Why? As humans, all we want (for the most part, about 99% of the population) is to appeal to our own self-interest.


'I call your momma Roy Jones cause she raise chickens!'
...
'In this journey, you're the journal or the journalist'
-Talib Kwelli

Oct 26 2003 4:18PM
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therealjerk
Posts: 2806 - Karma: 26
hahahaha, and i hope somebody else got Ansons little comment about his name being pink, thats a good one.


'I call your momma Roy Jones cause she raise chickens!'
...
'In this journey, you're the journal or the journalist'
-Talib Kwelli

Oct 26 2003 4:22PM
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Dallan!
Posts: 3668 - Karma: 11
i jerk of with my right hand and use the left sometimes, and sometimes both but the right one is the best





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Oct 26 2003 6:43PM
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F5*
Posts: 1595 - Karma: 54
the indians were not communist. they traded almong tribes. they had a feudal economy.


carrots handbag cheese
Oct 26 2003 7:31PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
'indians' had different tribal systems, some of them were even democratic. you cant just group all of them in one categorie.
and FYI, they arent from india, or the west indies, so they are called NATIVES, or ABORIGINALS. The west indies are now more or less the carribean.


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 26 2003 7:35PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
'Because the only way communism could really work is if the whole world changes to communism because the world relies too much on international trade. and a country with out money cant trade.'

While i agree with you in part, the above statement is simply wrong. Bartering is a form of trade that does not involve money. Labor can also be traded. Not all trade involves money.

concept108 is a fag
Oct 26 2003 9:12PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
trade was before currency even developed, in fact today's 'trade' in some definitions isnt trade. There is no mention of currency in the original definitions of trade.


'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine.'
Me- come here doggy
Karl-I dont think he understands english man
Alex-yeah, it is a GERMAN shepherd
Oct 26 2003 9:14PM
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pag
Posts: 3412 - Karma: 69
by our human narture right now we can only dream for an Utopia in our world right now...
I think that our animal face makes us wanting more power and live better... IN capitalism power is money... so people wants money and people doesn't care about others if they doesn't need them... just like in Orwell's book the pigs take control and keep the apples and the milk for them and sleep in beds... but us it's in our mind to stay alive... we group and live fairly when we need it to be alive but with our technology all this shit that is nature laws have gone into our society and it fucks everithing... and there has never been a communist country in the world in communist there is no money... Russia was only a dictatorship capitalist country with abolished middle class.
PAG
Oct 26 2003 9:40PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
i agree with most of what u say pag, except with one thing
capitalism is more than just the idea of classing society. In business terms it means power to the consumer, hence more businesses are created in order to facilitate to the consumers needs. Communism just has almost no businesses, there is no competition, what you only get pretty much what you need. You have no choice or selection, so its pretty much giving power to the government and businesses.
socialism is the happy median...



'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine
ralph, you're on special team
YAYY!!!!
Oct 26 2003 9:50PM
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Anson
Posts: 1348 - Karma: 11
in a rebut to your last point, petek, since when has the consumer had power. Realistically, you are a slave to the large corporations. They pretty much own you and all the rest of america.

Anyways, a bunch of your morons said the natives weren't commies becuase they had an economy, and because they were a democrasy. To see past your obvious mistakes, you must first stop believing all the shit the government shovels you about communism.

1) Communism does NOT reaquire a dictatorship.
2) Communism can have democrasy (OH MY GOD)
3) Feudal economies were mostly in Europe during the middle ages and were economies based on rich landlords charging and taxing the poor peasants until they were starving. I think you had the native american economy a little confused with something... assuming I didn't read your post wrong and make an utter fool of myself.

'Human nature' is often the excuse I hear not to instate communism. This is complete bullshit. The reason 'Human nature' exists is because of captitalistic ideologies. Greed? It is why people want more. Why do people want more? Because with more things they think they will become better people. You go to the mall and 'consume'. You feel this is healthy and beneficial to yourself and society, when really you are just squeezing the trigger of the gun agaisnt your head.

Do you go to Mcdonald's expecting quality food made by a talented chef who enjoys feeding people? Of course not... you go because... err.. they add told you to.

Why do you buy music from HMV. Does it sound better from HMV than from an independant record store?
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Workers of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Oct 26 2003 10:40PM
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F5*
Posts: 1595 - Karma: 54
capitolism is good because you have many choices. you make the best one for you. you dont have to eat at McDonalds, you can go to kfc, or make your own food, or even go out to a 5 star resterant. they all cater to you because they need your bussiness,

in communism, there are no firms. they decide what to make and how to make it, you could be getting a can of corn or beef. what they decide it what you get.

i hope this makes some sense, my brain is tired and not working right......


carrots handbag cheese
Oct 26 2003 11:25PM
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NomenClature
Posts: 4348 - Karma: 83
this months FORBES is on POT, buhahajalajalajalajalajalajalajalajalajala. marijuana, cannibas, crack cocaine insane in the membrane, sleepy sleep shower(blueberry) snickerdoodles, jolly rodger, ale for christmas, but i will tell you when the children, who must be found, die, the road, dark and solid but he children are not found, the treasure the sails the skulls and crossbones.
BOOM>
__________________________________

smoke bud, it gets you high.


COC session E

'crowns are badass' - Itsbackfliptime

SMRCCSMFD
Oct 26 2003 11:29PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
communism cannot have democracy, because communism is based upon leader-less rule.

and yes, ambition and greed are not simply human nature, but animals follow similar ideals. Animals will usually fight over food and other resources, to ensure their own survival.

concept108 is a fag
Oct 27 2003 6:15AM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
my point was the consumer in capitalist society had a fuckload more power than in a communist society, and no matter what, you cannot prove this wrong.



'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine
ralph, you're on special team
YAYY!!!!
Oct 27 2003 2:24PM
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petek
Posts: 8762 - Karma: 12
plus this is all theoretical, theoretically communism can work.

with democracy being part of communism it is possible, but it cant be representative democracy, there would have to be referendums on EVERY topic, and nothing would ever get done. Representitive democracy cant work with communism, simply because representatives would have more power than the people they represent.



'We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind, cause they dont dance, and if they dont dance they aint no friends of mine
ralph, you're on special team
YAYY!!!!
Oct 27 2003 2:26PM
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What_A_Wookie
Posts: 3231 - Karma: 21
Nothing will work.
_________________________
And for America, there will be no going back to the era before September the 11th, 2001 — to false comfort in a dangerous world. We have learned that terrorist attacks are not caused by the use of strength; they are invited by the perception of weakness. And the surest way to avoid attacks on our own people is to engage the enemy where he lives and plans. We are fighting that enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan today so that we do not meet him again on our own streets, in our own cities. - George W. Bush

Oct 27 2003 2:38PM
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DRISKEY
Posts: 2969 - Karma: 14
^actually that in a lot of ways can be very true. i mean just looking at this thread alone you see so many different opinions on what type of government in the right goverment. even people that agree on the same government dont agree on everything about it and they have separate view for certain parts of it. maybe the world should be divided into goverments instead of countries

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ElasmoSKIEROates: I really don't care what people on NS think at all anymore
ElasmoSKIEROates: they can all lick my nonexistant sweaty nut sack
Oct 27 2003 3:53PM
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What_A_Wookie
Posts: 3231 - Karma: 21
i like that ^ wouldnt solve everything, it would start a lot of shit but that would be pretty shl
_________________________
And for America, there will be no going back to the era before September the 11th, 2001 — to false comfort in a dangerous world. We have learned that terrorist attacks are not caused by the use of strength; they are invited by the perception of weakness. And the surest way to avoid attacks on our own people is to engage the enemy where he lives and plans. We are fighting that enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan today so that we do not meet him again on our own streets, in our own cities. - George W. Bush

Oct 27 2003 4:24PM
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What_A_Wookie
Posts: 3231 - Karma: 21
i like that ^ wouldnt solve everything, it would start a lot of shit but that would be pretty shl
_________________________
And for America, there will be no going back to the era before September the 11th, 2001 — to false comfort in a dangerous world. We have learned that terrorist attacks are not caused by the use of strength; they are invited by the perception of weakness. And the surest way to avoid attacks on our own people is to engage the enemy where he lives and plans. We are fighting that enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan today so that we do not meet him again on our own streets, in our own cities. - George W. Bush

Oct 27 2003 4:24PM
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