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What should Meadows do with the old rope tow?

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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

I want to open this up for suggestions - It looks like there is a good possibility we will be replacing the existing rope tow by the lodge with a conveyor lift (magic carpet thingy).  This means there is a perfectly functional rope tow that will probably end up in a warehouse for the next 20 years, barring someone with a vision and the intiative to figure out something better to do with it.

I have some ideas, but I don't want to constrain creative thoughts.  Anyone have a solution?

Jul 10 2008 11:49AM
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MiniMeDanny
Posts: 1737 - Karma: 2,312
put it on shipyard. or just in one of the other parks. 'rose city' would be a good place for example since the lift is fairly slow and then ppl could easily sesh the park all day rather than having to hike rails and tables
Jul 10 2008 2:34PM
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hoodSlayer
Posts: 900 - Karma: 7
^^yeah I would put it in a park, it would get the most use
Jul 10 2008 3:04PM
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Upgrayedd
Posts: 620 - Karma: 25
It should go on the skier's left of the superpipe and should have some jibs and maybe a medium sized booter on skier's right under the easy rider lift.  It would be a great tool for progression if you could hit any of those features in 60 second intervals.
Jul 10 2008 5:11PM
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Upgrayedd
Posts: 620 - Karma: 25
I fucked that up - I mean it should be looker's left (skier's right) of the superpipe - down the middle of whatever trail that is.
Jul 10 2008 5:21PM
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nkinsman10
Posts: 1088 - Karma: 45
shipyard or rose city
Jul 10 2008 8:17PM
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spere
Posts: 6105 - Karma: 248
cobra- no offense but i think thats a horrible place for it, there is way too much traffic from beginners that come through the lane between the mini pipe and the superpipe. more park features there would make it way too crowded.

i guess people could lap the pipe a lot quicker if there was a rope tow next to it, but how many days out of the season are the conditions good enough that people would want to lap the pipe? i think it would get a lot more use if it was in shipyard.
Jul 11 2008 12:35AM
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Upgrayedd
Posts: 620 - Karma: 25
Uh, yeah -  I think you are right about the gaper trap in there.  I guess my plan requires a fence and gates at the top to keep them out - probably not going to happen.
Jul 11 2008 1:56PM
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smooticus
Posts: 1798 - Karma: 27
I think it would suck cause the only day you wanna hit the pipe is when the pipe is actually good, and hen its always crowded. A tow there would just mean more standing around. Shipyard would be a better place
Jul 11 2008 4:54PM
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Orygunski
Posts: 176 - Karma: 10

Yeah, great idea! Put it by one of the existing parks or create a new park for the rope tow. Thanks a bunch Mt Hood Meadows.
Jul 11 2008 5:51PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10
I was originally thinking superpipe, but you guys have made some really good observations about how that would actually work, given the traffic flow through there. 

I like the shipyard idea - it would allow the park riders to leave the easy rider for lazy gapers trying to get up to the Vista Lift and likely shorten lap times dramatically.  Looking out the window, it might fit to the right of Easy Rider and could run up the steeper section of the hill, allowing for a reasonable number of options for layout and difficulty of the features.

I am not as familiar with how the Rose City Park was laid out - Any thoughts on where exactly it might fit up there?
Jul 11 2008 6:46PM
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Danger.
Posts: 3476 - Karma: 58
shipyard for sure, as long as the setup in shipyard is nice
Jul 12 2008 5:47AM
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HOODfuel
Posts: 81 - Karma: 74
I dont think we need it by easy rider.
Shipyard would be great just lap that all day.
Think they could keep that open longer then rest of the resort?
That would be the best so many kids would use it.
Jul 12 2008 8:45PM
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Ware
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 2,221
just give it to windells.... shipyard is gay anyways
Jul 13 2008 1:52PM
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Danger.
Posts: 3476 - Karma: 58
such a hater
Jul 13 2008 6:35PM
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spere
Posts: 6105 - Karma: 248
that would be nice, but the forest service won't allow them to have one up there, they've asked many times but no dice
Jul 13 2008 8:23PM
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[Toby]
Posts: 766 - Karma: 10
Shipyard would be really nice, it would have to be placed inside the Park fence though to prevent beginners from thinking it was a second "rope tow hill". Another easy rider lift is pointless, it would take so long to get up something that steep. Shipyard is the only reasonable location bar park place, which would be awesome but i don't see happening
Jul 14 2008 3:17AM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

I agree there would have to be a physical barrier to ensure the beginners aren't using it to practice pizzas and french fries. 

As a fair trade, I will promise not to practice tip stands and nose butters by the new surface lift - Do you think they will agree to the deal? 

I didn't think so ;)

Jul 14 2008 3:48PM
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HOODfuel
Posts: 81 - Karma: 74
Well i kind of thought this through, if you could have it on the right side of rose city looking down it would be really nice. You could lap the jumps and rails all day that are the top. In shipyard its super easy to hike and really not that much of a reason to put a rope tow there. Besides in shipyard there are only 3 of 4 good rails anyway.

Easy rider lift goes way to slow and gets really annoying. So a rope tow there could be a good choice.
Jul 16 2008 3:40PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10
Let me clarify because I had a fusion pass this year and didn't ride meadows until I hiked in June after the lifts closed and I didn't see how Rose City was divided from the Zoo - Are you thinking it should go on the far right along the trees or that it should be placed more centrally located - like under the Easy Rider and above the superpipe?  Was there fencing to divide what looks like two different parks on the trail map?

I keep sticking my head out the window to look at the hill - I can see the area we are talking about from the accounting department.
Jul 16 2008 4:25PM
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[Toby]
Posts: 766 - Karma: 10
The location it would work on red is in the "rail park" above the super park  next to the Bordercross course probably 100 feet from the skiers left trees on red.

Do you actually have the authority to have this happen though?
Jul 16 2008 8:17PM
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Karcher
Posts: 3788 - Karma: 1,934
that would be pretty sick
Jul 16 2008 11:41PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

Haha - No, I don't have the authority to decide what to do with it.  I am, however, in a position where I have the ear of the people with the authority.  At this point, I don't think there are any plans to do anything in specific with the lift. 

Essentially what happened was my boss (the Director of Finance) and I were discussing the summer work projects and he mentioned that we had gotten approvals to begin installing the conveyor lift (magic carpet) to replace the existing surface lift (the gaper rope tow by the Lodge). My next question, being a true park skiing delinquent, was "What are we doing with the old rope tow?" - hoping that the plan was to put it on the superpipe.  His response was that it would probably go into storage, but that he didn't know what exactly the plans were.  That being the case, I figured I would take it upon myself to come up with some workable proposals to present to management for relocation of the lift. 

There are surely logistical impediments to this - Forest Service permits, budget, etc, but I think I can make a good case for making productive use of the asset we will likely just have lying around in the vehicle shop otherwise.

Jul 17 2008 11:42AM
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skihood
Posts: 903 - Karma: 154
would the rope tow even be long enough to go all the way up the superpipe?
Jul 17 2008 2:53PM
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Upgrayedd
Posts: 620 - Karma: 25
Not the current one - That would be part of the budgeting necessary to pull it off.  I think that a longer rope would be a fairly resonable capital expenditure.
Jul 17 2008 3:55PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10
You are right - It has been a while since I have seen the rope tow in action, but based on where the supports are placed it looks like the distance is about 150 ft.  I think the superpipe is at least 400ft long.  I also have no idea how much rope for a tow would cost, so it is tough to guess whether or not management would be willing to swallow that expense (I can't imagine it is extremely expensive - though I was shocked when I saw how much climbing ropes cost).
Jul 17 2008 5:52PM
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powder_weasel
Posts: 382 - Karma: 9
Will the motor be able to pull the extra weight resulting from the longer rope and more people riding it?
Jul 18 2008 3:23PM
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powder_weasel
Posts: 382 - Karma: 9
Is the motor powerful enough for the added weight of a longer rope and extra riders?
Jul 18 2008 4:04PM
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danieljordan
Posts: 35 - Karma: 25
I think it should definitely go to the shipyard. Honestly, this past season the shipyard had more rails than the rest of the mtn. combined. Not that this is by any means how the parks should be, but if they could keep some smaller rails and boxes over there with a rope tow, I think it would be a fun place to hang out and ride, rather than ride through once at the end of the day or hike or lap buttercup. On days when the weather is bad up top, often times the shipyard is unaffected. It wouldnt be very effective on rose city plus it would probably take longer than riding red.
Jul 18 2008 4:06PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

Hehe - I guess being a powder weasel is preferrable to being a party marmot.  Anyhoo, that is another good point - I don't know if the current short length is dictated by the motor, weight of rope and weight of riders or if it is constrained by the slope that it has been set on.  This is definitely something I will inquire with operations while I am composing my proposal.

Jul 18 2008 4:50PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

I am thinking that whatever the ultimate proposal is that it should focus on providing a specific space for progression for all levels of rider.  That would be pretty easy to do in the Shipyard with rails and boxes because you can place them side by side.  It is also a nice observation that it would allow quick lapping of the park on bad weather days.

I did the inventory of rails, boxes and wallrides that are piled up by the admin building - I will post that at some point in the near future.  For now, can anyone describe what the setup on Shipyard was like (features, layout, etc)?

Jul 18 2008 4:59PM
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danieljordan
Posts: 35 - Karma: 25
if i remember correctly the setup on shipyard was usually 3 features across and then 3 or 4 features down depending on what there was setup...mostly just mailboxes, a log jib, flat butter boxes, a couple downrails, a few small rainbow rails, and the long flat box...which should be somewhere more useful. Do you have any pull over the park manager? Because he definitely doesn't ride park, or if he does doesn't know how? which I think hurts everything a little bit, along with the lazy park crew. I remember talking with the park manager and just seeing exactly why everything is the way it is...I dont think he knows his stuff as much others would
Jul 20 2008 4:08PM
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hoodSlayer
Posts: 900 - Karma: 7
since the rope tow is only 150ft. long you should just put it in between the base lodge and the bottom of the yellow (stadium?) chair.  That small incline is the biggest bitch in the world.  Also, could you pass along to the management that "stadium" is the most unoriginal cliche name they could have given yellow chair.  Personally I think it should have been called "vision quest chair" because mt. hood is a "vision quest" zone for native americans and they're really chill. thanks
Jul 20 2008 11:56PM
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danieljordan
Posts: 35 - Karma: 25
So, I'm just a little confused, because this guy is actually trying to help with the park situation at meadows and you are asking him to complain to management about renaming the yellow chair to stadium?
Jul 21 2008 7:04PM
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hoodSlayer
Posts: 900 - Karma: 7
^^     ;-) 
Jul 21 2008 7:50PM
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freezed
Posts: 12973 - Karma: 500
vision quest chair is an awesome name.
Jul 21 2008 8:30PM
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motzybrdr
Posts: 64 - Karma: 20
Make it a tow for a summer park that hood should have!!
Jul 22 2008 3:46PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

This is a good idea to improve traffic flow - I don't want to suggest it to the rest of management because they would probably adopt it without helping to fix the park situation. 

I do think the name "Stadium" chair lacks origininality and it is a great idea to emphasize our unique cultural traditions with naming conventions - I think it may be a done deal, though.

Jul 22 2008 5:44PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

It is my understanding that the Forest Service has repeatedly nixed the idea of putting a rope tow on the Palmer in the summer - Can anyone verify this? 

I may be missing the suggestion - Are you thinking that Meadows should actively farm snow to have a small spring and early season park?  Frankly I love the idea, but am not sure how much resonance it will have with the non park riders.  Taken care of, the snow between the Vista lift and the parking lot should persist into july (it is just now gone and we had weeks up here where it was 90 during the middle of the day).  I myself built a booter on the hill outside the admin building - everyone decided I am categorically insane - I decided they have all lost the passion :p

Jul 22 2008 5:51PM
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motzybrdr
Posts: 64 - Karma: 20
Thats exactly what i mean, i was extremely frustrated this year with the lack of effort put into the parks at meadows through out the year. So i was hoping for a strong spring with a great cascade park. But, one again a single jump and no half pipe later we were left with a mountain with over 150 inches of snow closing for good with weeks and even months of a rope tow serviceable park as an excellent option. I wish we had a way to actually communicate with the management at our mountains directly and have influence as riders, but it seems that the day of the mountain for the rider has gone, and it has become a mountain for the dollar....
Jul 26 2008 5:35AM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10
Well, we are all in luck.  I am the Assistant Controller (basically the head accountant) at Meadows.  At some point in the future I may be acting in an official capacity here, but for now consider me a sympathetic newschooler with a vested interest in having the parks be world class. 
You were definitely not the only person that was frustrated by the short spring (not me, I had a fusion pass last year).  It is true that attendance drops off in May and it is really expensive to open the entire resort for a small crowd.  I don´t know if it is widely known, however, that May marks the beginning of Mt Hood becoming the freeskiing center of the United States.  I rode at Timberline almost every day in May (before I started my current job), literally as much as my body could take it.  I watched pros roll in all month before their coaching gigs started and by the time the park moved up to the Mile the quality of the riding was exceptional (snowboarders included).
I think it might be possible to take advantage of our late season by emphasizing efficient use of limited parts of the mountain and limited lift operations.  The demand is clearly there.  I really think everyone at Meadows wants to to the right thing (that is, having the best quality parks) for our riders and I hope I can serve as a feedback mechanism to move things in a positive direction.
And I am going to be pissed if the parks suck and the hand crew is lazy......
Jul 27 2008 12:45AM
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motzybrdr
Posts: 64 - Karma: 20
That is the exact idea i have hopped to communicate via my many posts on matts blog and such. A limited low cost to the mountain opening of one or two lifts, like timberline, would be a huge boost for meadows.
Jul 27 2008 6:29PM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10
Werd - I think we have been stuck in a paradigm where we think the whole mountain has to open with management not appreciating that a little patch of snow can be really useful and fun for park riders.  Seriously, I know many of you have gone through the ordeal of filling up a pickup with snow and trucking it to some random rail - and had a great time doing it!  Even 150 ft of rope tow could open up a myriad of possibilities if we creatively use the available assets, to say nothing of running Easy Rider or Daisy into the early summer.
Jul 28 2008 5:44PM
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huckaberry
Posts: 993 - Karma: 14
into early summer would be siicckk!!!
Aug 10 2008 4:06AM
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pDails
Posts: 1238 - Karma: 75
skiers right of rose city park in between the zoo and rose city...beginner and andvanced park access so beginnsers can lap a park easy and same with lapping the tables in rose city. because its only 150ft isnt too big of a deal. i would rather hike a little and be able to session rose city without having to wait in the massive easy riderl ines/ general slowness. by far my top choice!


or maybe something on lower vista? theres tons of area above easy rider and the banked slalom coarse and its all fairly mellow steepness. set up a mediocre park? maybe something like the northstar's all-wood park? that thing is so tight!

if not either of those two then just shipyard... : (

definetely use it somewhere though!
Aug 25 2008 7:03AM
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pDails
Posts: 1238 - Karma: 75
p.s. if at all possible, mention to anyone involve in the park setup to possibly look at the way northstar sets up their parks...they have some of the best parks ive ever ridden.

mostly what i noticed is that rather than have a "wide" park with 3 options for your first hit, make it possible to hit atleast two if not all three rails, or features. especially with our rails...it always seems that to skiers right, between zoo and rose city, there are handfuls of rails both setup, and not setup(leaning against trees) that never see use because you can only hit a few rails, or a few tables and a rail or two, and almost everyone chooses the tables with a rail or two. whereas when i was at northstar, the park was a max of two features wide, and it was setup so that usually the two features were similar, with one being easy and one more advances...i.e. a ride on down box side by side with a down rail. this way you dont have to choose between one rail or the other on a run...hit both!
Aug 25 2008 7:16AM
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GUZ
Posts: 1371 - Karma: 255
yes!
Aug 26 2008 12:40AM
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GUZ
Posts: 1371 - Karma: 255
and yes!
Aug 26 2008 12:40AM
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MiniMeDanny
Posts: 1737 - Karma: 2,312
agreed. between rose city and the zoo is perfect. let's see if these changes actually start to get made nxt season
Aug 26 2008 1:39AM
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MtHoodMeadows
Posts: 106 - Karma: 10

I think we have a really good chance of influencing the type of features and the layout - that will simply be a question of letting me know what is good and bad about the parks and my communicating that to Jason and Mike - and you know how to get in touch with me.  Truthfully, it should help the park guys greatly to have a feedback mechanism in place.

The rope tow may be more of a long term goal given the permitting, installation and rope length issues.  I am considering it part of the long term strategic plan for the parks.

Quick question (again, forgive my ignorance - I had a fusion pass last year) - What is the line situation on Easy Rider?  It looks to me (from the map and looking out the window) like it basically serves Rose City, the Zoo and the Superpipe - sort of like the double at A51 in Keystone.  Does it get a lot of gaper traffic as well?  Do the lines get bad enough that the rope tow could be justified to help decrease congestion on Easy Rider?


 

Aug 26 2008 11:17AM
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skihood
Posts: 903 - Karma: 154
.Easy rider does go right over the park and you could take that all day long. But there are so many gapers that take it that have passed taking buttercup all day and moved to easy rider. If your facing down the zoo , to your right there is a easy run that gapers take all the time.
Aug 26 2008 1:07PM
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