UPDATE!!! Canon XH A1 vs. Sony HDR-FX1- Which one do I buy???

I just got the FX1 and it's really good so far and everyone I asked about the camera says it is very good., but I haven't used it for anything serious yet, although I am going to windells june 16th so I will be using it there. (No info on the A1)

Both are a waist of your money, might as well get the DVX. If you are going to go HD save some more money and get something that records hard state. Like sony EX1 or pani HVX.

dude, you are one of the most negative people on NS. It bothers me everytime you talk.

I kinda agree on the HD, make sure you've got a fast enough computer if you're going to be shooting in HD.

I've got an FX-1 and I used it this season, but I had to shoot in SD coz my Powerbook just can't handle HD, it was kinda a waste and I'm gonna sell it and get something that just shoots SD.

Don't make the same mistake I did.

Thank you for the advise that actually told me something. I have plenty of computer for HD, so I don't think that will be a problem... G5 dual 2gz, 4gb ram, nice video card.

how did you like the fx1 had your computer not been a problem? It felt really solid when I used it in the store, but did you find anything to be a problem with it? Did you ever use an external mic, and if so was the adapter a pain in the ass?

Thanks again for the heads up, it was nice to have a reason behind a warning

PM leone, I'll tell him about this thread.  He has an FX1, and used it for this season.  He'll be able to tell you about it.  It seems as if not many know about the A1 as the FX1...good luck man.  The only direct advice I can give is be careful man, this is a big purchase, but you knew that.

thanks man, I will drop him a message.

And yeah, I am defintaley aware that this is a large purchase, which is why I am trying to figure out as much as possible. I am leaning more toward the Canon, but I just want to make sure.

Like xavier said, dont waste your time on these cameras at this point in time, unless you really want to. A DVX will have better color and you can still shoot 16:9 if you want to and even shoot progressive with the dvx like HD, for the same price. Honestly the only thing you'd want HD for is for bigger shots, like the actual physically size.

Buuuttt if you really want to get one of these two, get the sony. Canon isn't really going anywhere with HD right now and the low light on the XHA1 is significantly worse than the FX1.


So I say get the FX1 out of those two. But if you really want to have HD in the future (next 1-2 years) get an HVX or EX1. In that case, go for a DVX and then wait for more cashflow to get a better HD camera, thats just me, and happens to be what i am doing too. You wont be disappointed with an FX1 either, they are pretty sick camera, level one, poor boys, rage, have all used them in the past.

Ignore that, i was confused with a different camera, muh bad.

hmm well i dont know exactly what you are going for or the budget you are willing to spend (im sure you mentioned it in a post earlier since you have stated this is the second time you have brought this up).
Its whatever one you are going to get for cheaper is my best advice. HDV is pretty much on its steady downhill decline into being completely over run. AVCHD is coming out with some new stuff (even though the quality is not as good as HDV, it will still take it over using compact flash memory).
For that reason i see no reason to trust Canon with what they are doing. I dont understand it, Panasonic and Sony have taken off on a furious race in the Indy film industry by making new affordable higher quality HD cameras, while Canon is kinda sitting there sticking to HDV and mini dv tapes as the recordable unit.
I can go on about why i think Canon is on a downfall in the video side of things but i wont.
The hole optical zoom thing shouldnt be a big deal. My old V1U was 20x and our HVXs are only 13x and really hvnt noticed much of a difference or complained about it.
Both are 3ccd 1/3" chips, so the amount of light and colors it takes in will be identicle.
Dont bother using Canons 24f and 30f modes if you get it, tape only knows 60i, so its using a pulldown to capture 30 and 24 fps, which isnt even progressive, so stick to 60i, which is what the fx1 shoots in (decent slow mo capabilities with this).
I would say go with Sony... why? Well its what has been used and tested the best in the skiing industry and has been proven to look amazing. Watch Horners winch edit and that should blow you away, along with Real time
Canon seems to be in a dead hault right now in development, which scares me.
Also get really familiar with the camera, knowing the settings and exactly how everything works and what each setting means is essential to getting the most out of the camera

the FX-1 is definitely a solid camera, it feels great to use. All the functions of the camera are easy to access and get to grips with, you'll learn them pretty quickly just using the camera.

I never used an external mic so I can't say anything about them.

I found the 3 different zoom options pretty useful, as well as having the direct Iris control was pretty useful when the weather closed in.

Overall its and awesome camera, I haven't used the Canon, so I can't compare it to that, but I think its a pretty good choice either way.

better to be pleasantly surprised then constantly disappointed.


and you want a reason they are a waist of your money or do you just want people to agree with you and say they are supper dope sweet amazing cameras and you should get camera x. 

I am pretty sure I gave you a reason but here are some:
Both are HDV, hdv is all but obsolete, as stated it limits they formats you can record in and is not actually HD. In a year or two almost no one will touch hdv. Its not much better then mini DV, and is really just a touch sharper.

You can get the same if not better color and motion tracking with a DVX and those factors are way more important then how sharp your final image is.

The FX1 is old, it came out a few years ago (3 or 4 I don't know) and has not, to the best of my knowledge, been updated since then. A lot changes in a few years in the digital world. And since they FX1 came out, there have been leaps and bounds made in HD, especially on the prosoumer and indy level.

As said above Canon is not doing much in the HD world. Sony and Panisonic have gone way past them, and unless they have something really big planed for next year will be out of the game in two or three.

How long are you planing on keeping the cameras. my guess is that HDV will be obsolete in less then 4 years. to the point that you will not be able to get mini dv tapes. And in 2 years everyone will know this including you. You will want to sell your camera and will be unable to find a buyer. Then you will be stuck with a piece of plastic glass and wires that you paid a few thousand for and is now worthless. A DVX will set you back less and be no more obsolete then an FX1.


There are some reasons. So yea both cameras are a waist of your time and money.

Love.

Thank you for taking your time to give me a detailed response, it honestly means a lot.

In my last thread, the only answer anyone gave me was really the Sony FX1, so it caught me off guard to have someone say that this camera would be a waste of money. Looking at it further I can understand that such a camera has been out for quite some time with no updates and why that could be a problem.

That being said, the panasonic HVX is definitely sounding like a good option to me. Have you had much experience with the HVX? From what I can tell it lets you use either hard state "P2 cards" ormini dv, which would be nice to have the option in the beginning considering the cards cost a ton. Are there many other benefits to getting the HVX or is the fact that it can record this way enough of a benefit? Does it shoot in "true" hd? and if so, can you tell much of a difference?

Also would you recommend buying online? and if so from where? I have heard some horror stories about buying from camera shops online, but the thought of getting it for cheaper definitely looks appealing. It seems to me that an extended warranty is also important, so are there differences in warranties from different companies, or do they all pretty much provide the same service?

Again, ANY information that you or anyone can give means a lot, I was just thrown off by what I saw at the time as a thoughtless comment... but alas I was proven wrong.

Cheers

online: bhphotovideo.com supper good place to buy from, but their online store is closed every weekend from sundown friday to sun up sunday or something like that since they are jewish.

'True HD' is 1080p. I am not sure but I think the HVX shoots 1080 in 60i, 30p and 24p as welll as 720 in 60p. not 100% sure but I think so.

Other benefits of the HVX are the colors which are simply mind blowing.

And yes you can record to miniDV or P2 cards. You can also, and in my opinion the best option, record to a hard drive. You should be able to find 60+ GB hard drives for not to much and then be able to record directly to them.  This does mean that you have to attach the hard drive to the camera making a little heavier.  Then you just move the files from the hard drive to your external and you are ready to edit (same for P2 cards). With mini DV you have to log and capture all your shots which is a pain in the ass.

Sweet, I think I am going to spring for the Panisonic HVX200a considering it will hold its value for longer and not be obsolete in a matter of 2-4 years.

I was looking around for hard drives and I found 100gb models in what I think you are talking about, but those tended to be quite a bit too, maybe I am looking at the wrong thing.

Also, as I was looking for that, I noticed something that brought up a question. Do you, or does anyone, know how high of definition you can shoot with the hvx when recording to mini dv? From what I can tell it seems fairly low, but I was thinking maybe it downconverts it and then when you get it back on your computer it is back to 1080i or something..

So does anyone know what the highest definition you can get when recording to mini dv?

You can only record standard definition on tape, no HD on tape. I suggest reading up alot more on the HVX before you buy it. Its border line "prosumor" and is basically an indy camera. There is an HVX book out there, i can not remember the name, but talk to DOSmedia more, he has a couple hvx's and knows whats up. They are an intense camera that will need much research and learning, if you buy one be prepared to have no idea what you're doing for awhile. But the HVX is a wise choice for you if you want HD.

the tape mode on the HVX is absolutely pointless.
THe only mode you can get out of it is Mini DV, which is quality lower than the DVX (which shoots in DVC Pro)
HVX is not a cheap camera and is something that should be used by people that know how to handle it. I see soo many people and kids out there right now that have the camera and dont know what they are doing, and completely ruin the camera. For instance, there are some videos on here shot on an hvx that i can make my old V1U look twice as good, and thats a 1/4" camera.
Heres the bottom line, I dont know your experience and history with cameras, but if you have use several prosumer- indy cameras then the HVX is perfect for you. If your still getting your feet in the water then get something else, use it for a year, get realllly good at it, then selll it and buy an HVX.
Its all a tough decision. February of 07 i almost got an HVX, but i decided i wouldnt really know how to use it and didnt want to jump that far (from a gl2) to an hvx, so i settled in between, and a year later i sold my V1U and got an HVX. Never been happier with my decision, especially since im getting the best quality possible out of the camera.

Hope that helps man.