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October, 2024

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HD camera

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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
Looking at Hd cameras. around 800-1000 dollar price range. looking at sony hdr-hc, sony HDR-cx7 canon hv30 canon hv20, sony hdr ux20, or sony hdr-sr10. Whats the best for ski filming?
May 2 2008 7:31PM
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jack_weisman
Posts: 2310 - Karma: 169
HDV is not HD. is this your first camea?
May 2 2008 8:01PM
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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
my bad thats what I meant. And no its not my first camera
May 2 2008 9:33PM
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dave44
Posts: 11052 - Karma: 113
HV30 or HDR-HC7. I would say HC9, but they're pretty much the same, and the HC9 is over $1000.

Personal preference for me would to go for the HV30. I wouldn't go SR10 'cause it's hard drive, CX7 is flash and AVCHD is a bitch. CX7's auto mode pretty much does it all for you though, if that floats your boat.

May 3 2008 6:23PM
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longbomb
Posts: 200 - Karma: 34
I don't know why one would not go with a hard-drive camcorder, it can hold as way more than a tape or DVD can and you never have to buy the DVD's or tapes. 

But, I would agree with the above person and say to go with the HV-30
May 3 2008 8:10PM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
yes it is


get the HV20, great camera.
May 3 2008 9:47PM
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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
its my first modern camera. Right now im using like a 98 sony handycam
May 3 2008 9:55PM
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jack_weisman
Posts: 2310 - Karma: 169
HDV using interlacing to replicate true HD which is progressive
May 4 2008 8:50AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
if your only gonna spend around 1000 on a camera dont go with hd, try and find a nice 3ccd camera instead, you will get much better results. remember that when you watch your footage and other people are gonna be watching it, chances are its always gonna be in SD, so your not really getting much more than some normal handi cam. if you can try to get a gl2 or vx2000, 2100 if you can, you will get much a much better picture with much better colors.
May 4 2008 11:02AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
you might need to spend another 200 to get any of those i mentioned, i dont know though, i havent looked in awhile.
May 4 2008 11:04AM
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396222687862
Posts: 0 - Karma: 350
get the Hv30, it has the option of 30P instead of 30i (hv20). makes it that much better for internet hosting.
May 4 2008 11:12AM
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Galin
Posts: 2342 - Karma: 3,940
instead of 60i you mean right?
im not sure if i like 30p all that much. I havent really played with it too much but on the xl2 when i switched to 30p it seemed like it was kind of choppy. Not really too choppy, just not as smooth as 60i was.
May 4 2008 11:25AM
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396222687862
Posts: 0 - Karma: 350
yea, meant 60i. but 30p should definitely be wayyyyy smoother then 60i.
May 4 2008 2:04PM
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AhrenStein
Posts: 1941 - Karma: 177
Working with the format that hard drive gives you is a bitch.

PS. hv30 is not a hard drive camera, so why would you recommend it?
May 4 2008 6:28PM
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Galin
Posts: 2342 - Karma: 3,940
because he's looking for an HD format camera, not an HDD camera. HD is high definition, HDD is hard disk drive. The hv30 isnt really HD its HDV buts for his price range its the best he's gunna get.
May 4 2008 6:40PM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
From an HV20 User:

while the hv30 is HDV not HD, it still produces clearer images than i've seen on any consumer SD camera. However, because its a one chip camera, the picture will not be as vibrant as a prosumer 3CCD, SD or HD alike. My advice would be to buy a used 3CCD such as: DVX100 or GL2. These cameras both have 3CCD's and can shoot progressive frames. (i think maybe the vx2000/2100 do as well but I'm too lazy to look it up) Right now all these cameras are selling for really cheap as people switch to HD. You can find a DVX now for under 1500, which may be out of your price range now, but i suggest you keep saving up as the price keeps dropping, and buy one.

HD is cool, but unless you have a blueray disc burner/player, a plasma screen, ect, its irrelevant.

Having an HD camera wont make you a better filmmaker. Getting a camera with lots of manual features, and learning how to use these features well will make you a better filmmaker. If you have a camera that produces decent picture quality, and you practice/film often, your videos will continue to get better!

I also acknowledge that we cant all afford a dvx even though they're dropping in price. I am a college student and I sure as hell can't. Your camera is an important tool, but in the end, its the person behind the camera that makes the difference.

*cue slow clap*
May 4 2008 11:27PM
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Coalescent
Posts: 4871 - Karma: 2,063
^ you can play HD on the computer though don't forget about that!!

i just got the canon hv20 and i love it unfortunately you need a lot of hard drive to be able to hold the files on your computer!  they do take up a ton of space!
May 4 2008 11:37PM
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killaherbs
Posts: 101 - Karma: 10
FUCK YOU


YOUR 800 HDV CAM ISNT COOL

THAT SHIT SUCKS MY DICK , BUY A REAL CAMERA NOT SOME FAKE HD SHIT

IF I SEEE U FILMING WITHAN $800 "HD" CAMERA ON THE MOUNTAIN ILL PROB BE DRUNK AND SMASH THAT SHIT OUTTA UR HANDS


THTAS MY RANT

KIDS ARE SO GAY ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY JUST READ THIS THREAD
May 4 2008 11:49PM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
HDV is HD... I don't understand why people think it's not.  Any resolution higher than 720x480 (SD) is High Definition.  Just because HDV doesn't have as high of a data rate as say recording in dvc pro hd does not mean that HDV isn't high definition.  There are other factors that come into play when picking a camera besides "oh, this is HDV, it must suck, it's not real HD"


If you have the money and your computer and software can support working with HD, then go for the HV20, you wont be disappointed.
May 5 2008 12:42AM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
AMEN!
May 5 2008 1:25AM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
also may i add that this guy is an asshole.
May 5 2008 1:28AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
for around 1000 dollars your better off going with a 3ccd sd cam. the overall image will look much better.
i agree that if you have like 2000 dollars and you are choosing between something like a vx2100 and a fx1, the fx1 would always be a better choice, they both get a pretty similar image, and there is no reason not to have hd. the fx1 is pretty much an hd version of a vx21k and with more control's, so you wont be sacraficing anything by getting an fx1.

but if you were choosing between say a dvx and a fx1, it would be dumb to choose the fx1 just because it has HD. you need to look at the overall image of both to determine what is the better choice. many people would choose a dvx over an fx1 any day because you can get a better image, i would always choose a dvx over an fx1, and most prosumer HD cams because i like the overall picture much better. HD doesnt automatically make it better, its just one of many factors that determines the overall quality of an image.

heck id rather watch good super8 footage over any HD footage any day, because in my opinion it just looks so much better, and super8 has shit for resolution. that doesnt make it bad, in this case having the lower resolution almost makes it better.

and level 1 used pd150's, so pretty much a vx2000, the pd170 is a vx2100. the pd170 has a slightly better image overall. though high 5 was damn good quality anyways, much better than you would get with an hv20 or any 1 chip HD cam.
and i wouldnt say its fair to compare a pd150 to a fx1, the fx1 is newer, has more controls, and they were also getting better at filming and editing, there is better color correction programs now, and they were most likely getting better at that too.

May 5 2008 1:41AM
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NevWild
Posts: 249 - Karma: 172
Ill sell you a Sony HDR-FX1 for a great price. pm me
May 5 2008 10:33AM
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pompe
Posts: 874 - Karma: 124
HV20 for sure. I picked one up for $650 from Circuit City, the camera is amazing.
May 5 2008 1:38PM
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Coalescent
Posts: 4871 - Karma: 2,063
^ exactly..your not going to get a camera any better than the HV20 for 650 BRAND NEW
May 5 2008 3:17PM
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philipc
Posts: 6651 - Karma: 1,286
its still HD dumbfuck just because its not "true" hd 1080p doesnt mean its not hd, 720p is hd
May 5 2008 5:18PM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
I'd take an HV20 over a GL2 any day
May 5 2008 5:19PM
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396222687862
Posts: 0 - Karma: 350
same here, the quality of the HV20 blows the GL2 out of the water. Maybe it doesn't have as many manual controls, but the quality is nuts
May 5 2008 5:27PM
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Coalescent
Posts: 4871 - Karma: 2,063
^agreed!

i was actually looking at a GL2 but decided on the HV20 after a video comparison..
May 5 2008 5:39PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
ha please show me some footage of an hv20 that beats good gl2 footage. anyone who knows how to use a gl2 well will be able to get much better results than someone with an hv20. look at landis's gl2 footage you cant even compare a hv20 to it.   its may be hd but that does nothing for the overall picture, its still 1 chip and it will never get a better picture than a 3ccd. especially a gl2.
  the hv20 is a soccer mom camera, seriously, my mom owns one, and she films soccer with it, no joke. its made to be filmed on auto settings pretty much all the time for people who dont know how to use a camera, ive used a bit and compared to my vx2100 it sucks nuts. the only way it will ever beat a 3 chip is if someone is a big enough dumbass to use all auto control's on a 3ccd.
May 5 2008 5:55PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19

though i will say if you only have like 600 bucks, buy a hv20, its the best camera for the price, if you have more than 1000 though, i dont know why you would even consider it.

May 5 2008 5:57PM
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Reptar.
Posts: 1509 - Karma: 34
1) A Higher Definition can definitely help the overall picture.
2) Just because Landis films with a Gl, does not make it the best camera ever created.
3) Because your mom happened yo film soccer with it doesn't make it a soccer mom camera. So don't be so ignorant and literal.
4) Just because it's one chip doesn't mean its the same as one ccd, remember its a CMOS sensor.

I bet that average footy from a gl vs. footy from an hv, the hv will pwn.
May 5 2008 6:38PM
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Reptar.
Posts: 1509 - Karma: 34
Gl2
http://www.vimeo.com/889854
Hv20
http://www.vimeo.com/717956


you decide
May 5 2008 6:41PM
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396222687862
Posts: 0 - Karma: 350
just go through vimeo's hv20 channel, to each his own but i see the hv20 a lot clearer then any gl2 footage i've seen, at a fraction of the price. sure it has less manual controls, but it still does have them. saying that its meant to be shot on auto may be true, but any filmer that knows anything is going to set it on manaul, and amazing results can be shot with the hv20. i've seen lots of 35mm HV20 footage that blows dvx, vx2k and gl2 footy out of the water.
May 5 2008 6:51PM
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ILoveOhio
Posts: 1793 - Karma: 253
That's a terrible comparison considering the GL2 looks like it was shot on auto.  Go look at Landis' footage.
May 5 2008 8:12PM
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ILoveOhio
Posts: 1793 - Karma: 253
The only think that the HV20 and HV30 have on cameras like the DVX and VX2_00 is resolution.  If you know how to use a camera the the colors you can get out of a DVX are SOOOOOO much better than those of a HV20/HV30.  Close this thread please?  Basically if you want HD get the HV20/HV30.  If you are serious into film making and don't need HD, but have the camera skills to get good colors, get a DVX.
May 5 2008 8:22PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
higher resolution doesnt always mean its a higher quality picture, in some cases i think it can be a bad thing.  most of the cheaper HD camera footage i see is waaaayyy overly sharp and extremely digital looking.
and it totally depends on who is using the camera. the nice thing about an hv is that it will pretty much get a good picture all the time. where with something like a gl2 which is meant to be setup and shot manually pretty much all the time, if you try to just point and shoot, it will look like crap. you might as well go to wal mart and buy a 300 dolalr handi cam cause it will look the same.
landis is just a good example of someone who can use the gl2 properly, there are plenty of other people just as good with it, even better.
May 5 2008 9:01PM
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ILoveOhio
Posts: 1793 - Karma: 253
Listen to him.......I prefer the DVX film look and amazing colors over a clear boring image.
May 5 2008 9:18PM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
GL2 is a nice camera but it's also showing its age. I've used the HV20 and the GL2 quite extensively, and I've used most of the features of each camera. I've filmed both skiing and short films with them and here's my take based on actual footage, not on-paper statistics.

Picture Quality: HV20 blows the GL2 away, especially in controlled or well lit scenarios. GL2's colors are more rich, but this is easy to tweak in post.

Manual Controls: GL2 wins, but not by a whole lot to me they seem more or less the same. Manual focus is much easier with the GL2 for sure. GL2 also shoots in 30p which i prefer to use for sports filming. Gain control on the GL2 is much less complicated, and over all the manual controls are much more accessible.

Ect; HV20's 24p mode, and Native 16:9 are an important feature for everyone chasing after the infamous "film look." The GL2 is much heavier which makes shots steadier, and it has the handle on top which gives more versatility to the types of shots you can achieve (follow cams/ect are much easier).

You have to keep in mind that these aren't meant to be professional cameras, these barely qualify as prosumer. Real pro cameras don't have an "automatic" mode, but I doubt many ski bums can afford Pro cameras/ its not sensible to use them anyways. The gap is closing between consumer and professional products, and now cheaper products are more awesome than ever. Of course you want to buy the nicest camera you can afford, but at the same time, there really isn't that huge a difference to the untrained eye (Between the GL2 and the HV20). Both can produce awesome and shitty images Everyone has to quit talking shit and get out there and film!
May 5 2008 10:06PM
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Reptar.
Posts: 1509 - Karma: 34
http://media.putfile.com/A-Film-by-Landis-Tanaka-teaser

no hate on intended on the sloth.
May 5 2008 10:07PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
http://s12.video.blip.tv/1980003021790/Switchmute7-BTPVsDiablo272.mov
here is an hv20 edit, i really dont see anything special about the pictire, its just overly sharp, i guess some people like that though.
here is another gl2 edit from landis,
http://media.putfile.com/Farewell-Betty
both the gl2 edits have a better pictire in pretty much every way than the hv20 edit and all the other hv20 edits ive seen.
the hv20 edit posted with the wildlife was really good looking, but if your gonna compare cameras you have to compare them in the same enviornment, snow is the hardest thing to shoot with, and any camera is gonna get a much much better picture when you dont have to deal with snow.
these are edits on snow comparing both camera's, and i just dont see how anyone could think the hv20 has a better picture.
and this is just comparing it to a gl2, if you compare it to a vx21k or dvx,  you will see a huge difference.
May 6 2008 2:16AM
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396222687862
Posts: 0 - Karma: 350
^Well first off, i'd like to say, thank you for comparing my terrible cinematic skills with someone of amazing talent.

2nd'ly, i'd like to tell you that

1. i wasn't filming, my brother was (who has wayyy less experiance then me in filming, I have barely any)
2. he shot on auto, for some reason he decided to switch from my settings to auto.

so, you can't really compare that video at all.
May 6 2008 6:26AM
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396222687862
Posts: 0 - Karma: 350
Hell, to tell real quality. Give someone with some skills a Hv20 and a Gl2 for few months each, and see what they come up with. different people can manuever their camera's differently.

so basically, if you want to spend less then $1000, get the hv20. if you want more manual controls (somewhat) and a handle, and if you would like to call it "a better picture" get the gl2.
May 6 2008 6:29AM
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ILoveOhio
Posts: 1793 - Karma: 253

Why are we comparing a PROSUMER camera to a soccer consumer HD camera.  The ONLY thing the HV20 has over SD promsumer cameras is that it has a higher resolution and it's more simple to use and understand.  There's a reason professionals usually use camera like DVX's over a HV20.  That's because the DVX has the potential to produce a far better picture than an HV20.  What maunual settings does an HV20 have?  White Balance, Exposure, and Shutterspeed....it probably only has those setting.  If you look at a DVX, it has so many scene files it's rediculous.

If you are short on money, don't have manual setting experience, and want a crystal clear image with average-good colors, get and HV20/HV30.

If you have the money and experience and want a camera that gives you the ability to achieve and amazing image with draw dropping colors, get a DVX.

If your serious about film making and you have A LOT of money and want the colors of a DVX and great resoultion........get an HVX.

May 6 2008 7:45AM
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1080ski
Posts: 4424 - Karma: 191
i have an HV20, and have used a GL2 once skiing, but alot in video class. i do not have a lot of experiance with manual controlls (other than shutter speed, aperature, and focus)


heres what i think. I like the HV20, but really wish that the colors popped more. The 60i is nice, and you can get good slowmotion out of the cam (see here: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=10718. that is at full framerate, and then you can go slower from there- i dont know how he did this but it explains somewhere on that forum). i wish it was a 3 chip cam though, because in crappy light, the colors kinda blow, but you can fix it in post. in good light, its find though.

one thing that i really like about the HD (ok, its not real HD, who cares, it looks great on my computer) is that it gives you the ability to zoom in on shots and pan across and stuff. if you export to a lower resolution than it shoots at, it still looks very clear (for example, you can zoom to 150% and export to 50% its original size, which is 960 x 540 or something like that, and it will still appear to be full resolution in the finished product).

when it comes down to it, if you know how to use cameras well, you can squeeze out great footage from both of the cameras. here is an example from an HV20, which i think probably sold more cameras than any canon add haha (look below)

i also wish the HV20 had a handle, but with the use of a tripod (use as steady cam if you dont wanna buy one) or a homeade handle, it is way more usable. also, a better focus wheel would be nice, but theres ways to get around that.


heres some footage of the HV20 used properly
-this one is mine: http://www.vimeo.com/867915?  that is shot with a flourescent filter and a desklamp, no color correction. i was messing with DOF (this cam has a great DOF) and macros (great close ups as well). some of my other videos u can look atif you want, but they were shot on cloudy/grey days, so you can see how the camera lacks here

-thisis the rain shot i was talking about. its friggin amazing- http://www.vimeo.com/431500
May 6 2008 11:02AM
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pompe
Posts: 874 - Karma: 124
Did you shoot as a bunch of still tripod shots and then edit the movement in with zooms, cropping, and panning? Also, do you have a focus ring for the HV20, I'm thinking of making one or possibly buying one. Those clips were pretty cool.
May 6 2008 12:25PM
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1080ski
Posts: 4424 - Karma: 191
i just proped the cam on my desk for most of that. i ahve a tripod now, though, so it would be way easier. but the movement was done with cropping and panning and all that good stuff. for most of that, i just had it set to focus on something in manual focus and then turned on auto focus and it switches to whatever else is in the scene, but i did a few with the focus dial. i am going to make a focus ring for it though
May 6 2008 6:42PM
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dave44
Posts: 11052 - Karma: 113
let me know how it goes. i've been comparing the hv30 to the hc9, and have decided to buy the hv30 despite not having a manual focus ring.

May 7 2008 8:54AM
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