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January, 2025

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The Holocaust

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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
Ok this was sparked from a conversation on my schoolbus with a guy who doesn't believe the holocaust happend at all. He's a self proclaimed Nazi and his hatred of the Jews is pretty damn high.


Does anyone here not believe the holocaust happened? If so I would like to here your side of the story and I would like to see any evidence to back you're theory up. I believe it happened on a huge scale but I'm fairly skeptical about the causality count.
Apr 9 2008 7:38PM
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ax_murderer
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 30
your teacher doesnt decide that
Apr 9 2008 9:19PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
Click for larger image

how do you explain an authentic german document to Eichmann reporting over 1,000,000 Jews exterminated in just one camp? Falsified?
Apr 9 2008 9:20PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
I can't read German, but I'll look into it. That would be pretty damning.
Apr 9 2008 9:24PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
i love how you are well versed in the conspiracy theories about everything.  9/11, the Holocaust, what else you got?  Elvis, Roswell anythin else?
Apr 9 2008 9:25PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 92
Ok, and what about Hitler's open anti-antisemitism, his decision to exterminate the Jewish plague on the world, the raiding of synagogues and the paraphernalia put into the synagogue of Prague as a museum for the "extinct Jewish race" when all was said and done?

What about the genocide of the gypsies, homosexuals and other minority ethnic groups?

"Not genocide" to intern even 100 000 jews by force and let them die? Even in the most ignorant assumptions it's still genocide.
Apr 9 2008 9:26PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
Another document. Straight from the Nuremberg trials. This is the translated version.

Subject: Report to the Führer about fight against gangs
Report No. 51
Southern Russia, Ukraine, Bialystok
Successes in fight against gangs from 1st October until 1st December 1942

1.) Bandits:
a) Casualties in fights (x)
August September October November total
227 381 427 302 1337
b) Prisoners executed immediately
125 282 87 243 737
c) Prisoners executed after thorough interrogation
2100 1400 1596 2731 7828
2.) Bandit accomplices and suspects
a) arrested
1342 3078 8337 3795 16553
b) executed
1198 3020 6333 3706 14257
c) Jews executed
31246 165282 95735 70948 363211
3.) Turncoats thanks to German propaganda
21 14 42 63 140

(x) The number of casualties are to be considered much higher,
because the Russians carry off their fallen or bury them immediately.




This does not prove the existance of mass exterminations in the millions but it sure does help stoke the fire.
Apr 9 2008 9:28PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 92
See where it says "zusammen 1274166"? That means "together 1274166" deaths.
Apr 9 2008 9:30PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
This telegram just notes the number of arrivals at the camps. Nowhere does it mention anything about "extermination".
Apr 9 2008 9:31PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
It means "together 1274166" but they're talking about arrivals at the camp, not deaths.
Apr 9 2008 9:34PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
OK, so say hypothetically you're an SS officer in charge of one of these camps...it's 1945, the Soviets are breathing down your neck, the end is damn near and you know it...you know there are war crime trials coming...what is the first thing you destroy?


Apr 9 2008 9:35PM
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Alex_thedroog
Posts: 3433 - Karma: 2
landing on the moon was also staged
Apr 9 2008 9:39PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
The Hoefle Telegram has been put under the microscope and has been identified as a document that shows deaths, not arrivals. Cited by numerous sources.


Letter and 14 day report year-end report

Camp i.d. to 31.12.1942 1942 total
L ? Lublin 12761 24733
B ? Belzec 0 434508
S ? Sobibor 515 101370
T ? Treblinka 10335 713555 (*)
total: 23611 1274166
Apr 9 2008 9:41PM
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blunts
Posts: 295 - Karma: 9
911 too
Apr 9 2008 9:43PM
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emopoppins
Posts: 3996 - Karma: 269
ice pointa you bring up a lot of good points on uncited evidence, however from what i have seen it just seems that the holocaust definitely happened and thats that.
Apr 9 2008 9:44PM
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mellifluous
Posts: 1682 - Karma: 68
obviously I believe the holocaust happened,... i dont get skeptics about this. how can you deny all these facts?
and my granny is a survivor from the holocaust, same with my oma but shes dead now, she survived the holocaust but moved to canada then died ... my opa went to a concentration camp. . and never came back... so.., there ya go...
Apr 9 2008 9:44PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
Check this out, I know it's wikipedia but the work is all cited from credible research. Almost every single denial theory is analyzed and proven incorrect or flawed, very enlightening.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
Apr 9 2008 9:46PM
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cottonwoodarmada1651
Posts: 1734 - Karma: 40
Come on man, the Jews control wikipedia. Obviously.
Apr 9 2008 9:48PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
No, that article just lables anyone who thinks the holocaust might not have happened an antisemite. Then it says theres lots of evidence, but doesn't actually offer anything.

They don't prove that gas chambers were used to kill people instead of clean clothes. What about those plate glass windows? Why did we never find all those "mass graves". If Austwich was designed to be a death camp, why was it constructed on swampy ground, where burn pits cannot even be dug, even though thats what supposedly happened. They don't even mention that the "confessions" were extracted under torture and for pleas for leniency.
Apr 9 2008 9:56PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Most pictures offered don't even show what they supposedly represent.

Example:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/unaware.html

How do I know they're not in a damned prison chow line?

And others have been proven to be fakes. There was one example I saw of a "nazi" death pit thing, and it was actually Russian prisoners. I'll try and find it.
Apr 9 2008 10:01PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
You failed to read the section in which someone analyzed chemical samples from both the chambers. The levels of cyanide and whatever that delicing chemical was called were in high enough concentrations to kill not only lice but also humans.
Apr 9 2008 10:04PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
It has been noted that the Soviets had falsified numerous documents and photo's, those have been sorted and disbanded. Most info has been taken from the Allied side and internet German Bureaucratic investigations. The numbers from the allied side may have "possibly" been inflated but the pictures do not lie.
Apr 9 2008 10:07PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Nope, "Zugang" simply means arrivals. There is nothing to suggest they're talking about deaths instead of arrivals.
Apr 9 2008 10:07PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
My last statement is this, estimated population counts from third party organizations put the Jewish number at about 6 million less after 1945, the previous numbers worked from were taken from 1938. The initial estimated population of the Jews was also put around the same number by the Nazis.
Apr 9 2008 10:09PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
That's my mistake, I read a couple that classifed that documents at death but many more cites have it translated as arrivals not deaths.
Apr 9 2008 10:11PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19

It takes a higher concentration of zyclon-b to kill an insect than to kill a human, so yes, that makes sense.

Apr 9 2008 10:14PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Population levels have been considered as well.

The last thing I will say on this topic is to read through this forum:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewforum.php?f=39

They have looked into this alot more than me, you, or anyone on this site, and you will find both sides of the argument there.
Apr 9 2008 10:18PM
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2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
yeah i dont even know why u guys are bagging on icepointa. he even said he believes that it happened, but it was just blowed out of proportion. hes just trying to show both sides of the argument.
Apr 9 2008 10:58PM
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salomon097
Posts: 1345 - Karma: 301
well those pictures of hundreds of people on top of each other wasnt a giant jewish orgy so idk how much more proof of a mass graves you need.
Apr 9 2008 11:13PM
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Flo_Rida_2016
Posts: 2804 - Karma: -5
shows how fucked up your vision of chill and cool is.
Apr 9 2008 11:14PM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
agreed
Apr 9 2008 11:16PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59




you know who else denies the hollocoust? Nazis

why don't you send them a card, maybe even join up.

Apr 9 2008 11:34PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59

"Ok guys, now i know you're all tired from making it look like the camps have been by bombs, so why don't you all lie down on the ground and don't move so we can take this picture, and pretend like we killed you all"

(April 12, 1945: Nordhausen Concentration Camp,
where 20,000 inmates were believed to have died)




(Bergen-Belsen Death Camp at liberation by the British Army)


(A British Army bulldozer pushes bodies into a mass grave at Belsen. 19 April 1945)










No way, you tell me the gas chambers had glass window panes on them, easy for ventilation eh?
now why would you want to be able to ventilate a gas chamber? I don't know, maybe becaues after they killed everybody in the room they needed to be able to air it out before trying to clear out the bodies?


What's that you say? It takes more pesticide to kill an insect than a human? How is it logically possible then for the nazis to be using it to 'clean' prisoners? Correct me if i'm wrong but according to what you said, higher concentrations of pesticde are nessisary to kill the insect vs killing the human. How could they have killed a single insect without killing the people with the bugs on them?


honestly read Wiesel, read actual accounts of those who experianced the holocaust, sure you can easily make up fake numbers, but i tell you it's got to be impossible to make up emotions such that exist in accounts of the holocaust.

Apr 10 2008 12:08AM
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chimp
Posts: 616 - Karma: 118
usually people who still follow nazism still do not believe that the holocaust happened because well there basically calling them self bad, which they are by following nazism,  what my main point is NAZIS NEED TO FUCK OFF
Apr 10 2008 12:12AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Took the words from my mouth, violence only seeds violence. + Karma.
Apr 10 2008 12:14AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59

would you not punch me in the face if i was at your grandparents 50th weding aniverseray and started my toast to them with "your grandmother is a filthy whore, and your grandfather is a scumbag-good-for-nothing hound dog"

sure you have a basic right to say anything you want, but if you say something offensive and rude, people have a right to call you out on it, sometimes if you say something you really shouldn't say, you're going to get punched in the face, and you'd deserve it.


Apr 10 2008 12:27AM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,201
...i know icepointa is only trying to show one side of the story and he believes it happened....but, i am jewish, both sets of my grandparents on my mother's and father's side are camp survivors... and yes, they have the tattoos...only my grandmother on my father's side has spoken about it openly and in private with me...horrific...I can't write about it because it brings back memories of her stories...every day i marvel at how she maintains her sanity with those memories still lodged in her mind...but i'll tell you this...it happened...and happened in a very big, and very real way...the numbers are not exaggerated...and the gas chambers did exist...my grandmother watched her sister walk into one and never come out....its truly just completely disrespectful to even think for a second that it didn't happen or that it was exaggerated.
Apr 10 2008 12:36AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
bingo!  


Apr 10 2008 1:00AM
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Ski1erman
Posts: 124 - Karma: 10
i have a moral question for you, can violence be justified?     
Apr 10 2008 1:05AM
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freeze_pooter
Posts: 3296 - Karma: 16
nazism is a failed ideology. disproved in WWII ask that kid why he believes in FAIL
Apr 10 2008 1:05AM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
wow this is pretty interesting

i know for a fact that the motherfuckiing russians did genocide, those fucked up motherfuckers
Apr 10 2008 1:10AM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
there are survivors, pictures, and videos.

we watched a video in junior high of thousands of bodies being bulldozed into the ground.

thats evidence enough...

not to mention the camps that still stand? of course they are not in use, but they exist!
Apr 10 2008 1:13AM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
So jumister what you're saying is that I should judge someone on their political beliefs and that I shouldn't associate with this guy because he's a nazi, correct? Ok well lets say i'm far conservative, should I not hang around liberals and individuals on the other end of the spectrum just because of what they politically believe in? There's plenty of people out there who believe 9/11 was an inside job, should I talk to my friends and ask what they think? If they say it was an inside job i'll probably never talk to them again even though they're my friends. Well wait a minute a few people I know don't believe Global warming is happening I'm probably not going to hang out with them today either, what a bunch of dumbfucks.


Now the Holocaust is on a different level then what I described above but I still wouldn't judge anyones character on what they believe happened.
Apr 10 2008 6:59AM
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Mr.O
Posts: 1582 - Karma: 23
So your telling me that pictures of mass graves don't prove anything, then I guess you think that the genocide in Bosnia didn't happen either because you don't believe that the pictures are real. Your telling me that your ignorant enough to believe that this whole thing didn't really happen.

There have been testimonies from people who have been in the holocaust stating exactly what happened and I'm pretty sure I would believe that, also I haven't seen one document proving that there were less than 6 million killed.
Apr 10 2008 8:45AM
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Hannah.
Posts: 4625 - Karma: 56
these are not the only examples lets not forget yugoslavia and rwanda
Apr 10 2008 8:48AM
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Mr.O
Posts: 1582 - Karma: 23
Exactly, trying telling me those didn't happen. My Dad was born in a refugee camp in Yugoslavia when the genocide in Bosnia was going on, my grandma and grandpa lived through that so anyone who tries to tell or prove to me that it didn't happen i automatically won't believe you.

The fact is these genocides happened, the majority of the world believes that it happened, only few are skeptic and they are just blind as to what really went on.
Apr 10 2008 8:56AM
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MFinSLC
Posts: 408 - Karma: 31
IcePointa is just one of those people who likes to spark an argument just for the fact of disagreeing with someone or in this case society.  Deep down he knows the holocaust happened and a few million jews died because of it because everyone knows it happened.  How can eye witnesses not be facts....it must be a huge coincident that all the jews that survived the camps and all the nazis that admitted it all have the same story.
Apr 10 2008 10:18AM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
The kid is a douchbag bandwagon yuppy if he's a nazi but 'still cool'. he knows the shit happened but just heard the theory and grabbed onto it to be different.
Apr 10 2008 10:36AM
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-Otto-
Posts: 456 - Karma: 40
I don't believe it happened. I'm 100% sure it happened. I went to a concentration camp called Terezin, it's a few miles away from Prague. This concentration camp wasn't a good place, that's a thing I can tell you. We saw the place were the fire squad's shot people, it was horrifying to see it, you know that there a lot of people killed there. Also really small rooms to put hundreds of people in, the Nazi's did this just to irritate the people at the concentration camps. It's disgusting how people still say that the Holocaust is fake!
Apr 10 2008 10:58AM
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Astomp
Posts: 10090 - Karma: 344
lets disprove something way more entertaining...
Apr 10 2008 11:07AM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
how bout cambodia.  nobody ever says shit about that.
Apr 10 2008 12:19PM
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