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Do you believe in the existence of pure good or evil?

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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Thats pretty much my question. What do you believe and why?

I dont, and heres why. I think its impossible for someone to be completely evil. Take any human being thats done something we portray as evil. Are they? Do they consistently go around making the 'evil' choice when faced with a decision? No. They do what they think is right based on what their life has taught them so far. That might have led them to complete insanity - take the virginia tech shooter for instance - but not pure evil.

So what do you think? Are there people that are truly all good or all evil? Powers that conspire that are?
Mar 6 2008 3:59PM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
i don't believe in pure good or evil. although i think they DO know the difference between right and wrong, and sometimes do do what is wrong people still have some good in them. they don't do the wrong thing EVERY single time. and people are not completely good either, since they do some bad things even if it is very seldom.

although you could argue that they exist because being good or evil is what you think yourself, and are your beliefs. so technically what people do that is good or evil could vary from person to person really...
Mar 6 2008 4:04PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13084 - Karma: 18,731
There is no such thing as evil or good, actions cannot be good or bad, only the impact on the people


Mar 6 2008 4:12PM
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timmi
Posts: 12874 - Karma: 3,460
so should their actions being "good" or "evil" be based on their beleifs or society as a whole?
in their mind, i dont beleive they think they are evil, or maybe they just arent thinking of it in a good or evil sense.
however i think that their actions should be judged by those around them. obviously someone who is gunna kill a bunch of people is fucked up.
Mar 6 2008 4:24PM
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powderdrunkie
Posts: 2034 - Karma: 976
i believe that there has to be an equal amount of good and evil. a balance.

for instance, i don't think one can believe in god, and not satan. there has to be two equal opposing forces.

for someone to be ALL evil i think is impossible. there's no such thing.
Mar 6 2008 4:40PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
I believe that people are inherently good but things can lead them to make evil choices. Although good and evil are subjective so its hard to say much about it.
Mar 6 2008 5:22PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
But take Satan for instance. Unless I've confused my knowledge of Christianity, which is likely, Satan is pure evil. Many conclude pure evil doesnt exist, so is the idea of Satan bogus?
Mar 6 2008 5:31PM
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powderdrunkie
Posts: 2034 - Karma: 976
satan may be pure evil. but in my opinion, the only reason satan can be pure evil is because god is pure good. plus, satan and god aren't necessarily worldy things so maybe they could be excluded in the "pure evil/pure good" does not exist. because there is no proof that god or satan exist. i was just using them as an example to show that i think everything is equal, and balanced. just like karma, and my checking account.
Mar 6 2008 5:54PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Good and Evil are never absolutes. They're both relative, and absolutes in any idea are usually a construct of the human mind to make decisions less complicated. Religion takes these 'absolutes' and tries to convince people that they exist in reality, and we all see the potential problems that arise when someone follows that mindset too rigidly.
Mar 6 2008 6:33PM
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Jeremy_sieg
Posts: 15 - Karma: 11
personally i believe in the power of cake and sunshine :D:D:D:D:D
Mar 6 2008 7:01PM
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AwR
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 1,880
A Clockwork Orange Anyone?
sorry if somebody already said that.
but I WAS CURED ALL RIGHT
Mar 6 2008 7:03PM
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Tom.
Posts: 1954 - Karma: 12
Good and evil are just points of view, what you and I perceive to be good and evil are totally different. This means that "pure evil" may exist for some people, but not for others. It all depends on how you define good and evil.

My answer is that I aknowledge that it does in some sense, but not in my definition of the words.
Mar 6 2008 7:25PM
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J-ray-may
Posts: 88 - Karma: 10
qft
Mar 6 2008 8:20PM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
the universe could care less what humans do, but good and evil have meaning morally i guess
Mar 6 2008 8:25PM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
look at nature, some things in nature are so sweet and some are so cruel
Mar 6 2008 8:26PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
do you want to expand on a definition of pure evil? 

some christian beleif like alienation from god evil, or mindless killing people evil, or exploiting people of misfortune evil?

Mar 6 2008 8:30PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Evil and good can be defined by an individual, yes, but there are things that the vast majority of humanity would agree are good and evil. Charity and kindness would be classical 'good' things in this regaurd. Jealousy and hatred would be classical 'evils'.

I'm not at all trying to give a christian viewpoint here, but as I'm a white 21 year old american from Washington, the demographics of the area I grew up in no doubt have played a part on my outlook of life, even though I'm atheistic on matters of religion.

You bring up a really good point tho, are there universal goods and evils?
Mar 6 2008 9:16PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Satan was an angel who defied God and took some other angels with him and God sent them all to hell.
To me really though satan might just be an allegory to represent the evil in the world. Not an expert so my opinion isn't worth much.
To answer the thread creators question I think that God may be purely good, but nothing of this universe can be purely good or purely evil. Maybe the intent is purely good or purely evil but the outcome is always mixed. Good things have inspired atrocities and bad things have summoned good things.
I think a good way to put it is that every cloud has a shadow and a silver lining, but it just depends on what dominates. I just kind of wrote what I thought, I will think about this question and try to get back to this thread.
Mar 6 2008 9:22PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
After pondering this some more, I'm starting to believe in the notion that humans cannot be good nor evil.
Mar 6 2008 9:39PM
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skeedle
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 628
go read Jean-Paul Sartre and A Clockwork Orange
"people only focus on the causes of bad and why not the other shop?"


Mar 6 2008 9:46PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
good and bad are relative to  where you get the definition of the two......    for example, some cultures(religions) see no problem in the mass murder of people who believe differently then them....  

how do you define good and bad?   good for one can be devastating for the other..  

so in the end, i would say, there is no universal definition of good or bad..
Mar 6 2008 10:38PM
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pbandj
Posts: 5610 - Karma: 28
every action has a negative reaction meaning though your intentions may be good and you may do good for some people, there may be a negative impact on other people, for instance, iraq war, while having liberated millions of people from saddam husseins rule, numbers reaching 6 figures died in the process, so while the original intent was good, an evil stemmed from it. get my drift? oh and please don't dissect this into a "the u.s. went in for oil" it was used purely for an example
Mar 6 2008 10:48PM
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snowbird4life
Posts: 2265 - Karma: 26
through my life i come to the conclusion that their is such a dark side of life that i hope lots of you trust fund babies never have to deal with.


seeing overwhelming bad is hard to deal with and hard to not go insane.
Mar 7 2008 12:12AM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
i only believe in good.
was hitler evil? no, he though he was right so he cant be evil
Mar 7 2008 12:26AM
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snowbird4life
Posts: 2265 - Karma: 26

i value your opinion as a human being but i really think your a dumbass for saying that because he believed it was right it wasnt evil..... dont you think thats the most evil part about it?

Mar 7 2008 12:44AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Exactly. In his own mind, Hitler and much of 1938 Germany would believe his decisions were right.

However, and quite obviously, thinking you are right is no judge of evil or good from a future historical standpoint.

Heres what I think - nobody in their right minds can ever make an evil decision. Same goes for good. Selfless humanitarians are, in my perspective, a little crazy, just like whacko's that abuse animals. They do it for somewhat of the same reasons - your selfless actions make you feel good.

Now, I'm not at all saying that this is not a reason to be good. By all means, Mother Teresa and the Dali Lama are probably the people I would appoint to lead my personal utopia (ignore the fucked up idea of actual utopia and the thought of having a private one for a moment). Still, they are somewhat out of their minds from a species standpoint - by all means, we as humans should naturally embrace selfishness and cutthroat mentalities at the same time as compassion and benevolence, as a careful mixture of both will lead to the most success in our life. At least from a societal standpoint anyways. Maybe.
Mar 7 2008 1:15AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59

I think there is universal good, it's what we use to judge things being right or wrong.  If the term "evil" conjurs up some sort of satan or somehting, its probably the wrong way to think of the "opposite of good".




 

Mar 7 2008 1:52AM
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KeithB.
Posts: 608 - Karma: 12
I have studied religion and I have been a christian,and nowhere in the Bible have I read that God is pure good. God is supposedly omnipitant and all powerful and all knowing. In my opinion, if God is all these things, then it would stand to reason that some evil exists within this entity. It does say that God is The Way, The Truth, and The Light. These are names which He goes by as well as descriptions which may lead us to believe that God is the absence of evil, but it seems like a contradiction to say you know everything, yet you know not evil. It could very well be my own perspective and predjudices that have jaded my view of religion and God. To answer the original question though, no.
Mar 7 2008 3:46PM
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powder_weasel
Posts: 382 - Karma: 9

Good and evil are just an illusion of maya.  They are karmic and ego games.

But I love the song Satan sings in the South Park movie with the line:
You can't have good without evil, so it must be good to be evil sometimes...

Mar 7 2008 7:52PM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
i agree, shooting guns isnt bad, but if the bullets hit people its bad.
etc.
Mar 7 2008 8:03PM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
if you've studied chinese philosophy and that of the ying yang, theres a statement made that

if you have pure ying it will turn to yan, vice versa.

in that philosophy, applying it to this would be there cant be a pure good or evil, for the good would turn to evil and the evil would turn to good.

contained within each "evil *thing*" there is good, and within each "good *thing*" there is evil.

^thats scratching the surface of it

jumping around now.
if you remember in christianity, satan was an angel, a fallen angel, but an angel nonetheless. Therefore satan couldn't be pure evil, and wouldnt taking the fallen souls be a service to god? which would make there be some good in it.

There's no mention of why satan would hate humanity that I know of. So why take out a vendetta on something that is unrelated to your fight? Wouldn't god protect his creations that are being seduced and tormented by an "evil" being?

but... what could oppose gods will? i dont think anything. If something opposed its creator, it would most likely be destroyed. Am I correct?


Mar 7 2008 8:13PM
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powderdrunkie
Posts: 2034 - Karma: 976
kind of...

but in gods plan it was his idea to let us have the freedom to choose whatever we want. satans plan was to control us and not give us the freedom of free will. that is why they opposed each other. but god will still allow you to choose satan, and he will not destroy you because of it. satan will, because he will take away your agency.

according to christianity anyway
Mar 10 2008 4:56PM
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unchyll
Posts: 4554 - Karma: 96
Christianity also totaly renounces all existence of dinosaurs too
Mar 10 2008 5:02PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
And carbon dating is completely falsified by heathen geologists. Now thats true evil, man.
Mar 10 2008 6:17PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
Pure good is very easy to see. One that genuinely appreciates and loves everything around them in a moment, is experiencing a purely good moment. I have these moments all the time now that it's 2nd semester as a high school senior.
Mar 10 2008 6:50PM
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east_toast
Posts: 479 - Karma: 16
I dont think their is pure good or pure evil, but their are good and evil actions determined by their intent.  A person intending to do bad is being "evil" at that time but he will not always be doing "evil".  The same thing for good.
Mar 10 2008 7:16PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
Unless you're prepared to defend a purely subjective view of good, that's not a great view on good
you're saying i can justify my actions by saying that provided i appreciate and love everything I’m doing, i can call it good:

I’m just going to jump to the worst case scenario where Hitler loves and appreciates killing the Jews to save "his Germany" but obviously this is not good.


A more appropriate definition for good is anything that contributes to human flourishing.
Mar 10 2008 10:17PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
yeah, this had better be a joke, otherwise...... get your head out of the sand!
Mar 10 2008 10:23PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
get your head out of the sand

christianity dates the earth to between 4 and 6000 years old
Mar 10 2008 10:45PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
learn to read,   that doesnt mean they "dont believe in the existents of dinosaurs"    they disagree on dates, not the overall existence..    again, learn to read, and put the quote in context..
Mar 10 2008 11:00PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
Yeah that is a terrible scenario to compare what I said. But, let's put this way. You are taking it way further and way more intellectual than I ever intended my statement to be. Im talking about positive stuff, having fun, and loving life.

Hitler was a very angry man and obviously did not love life enough because he thought that Jews and gays and everybody who wasnt Aryan were ruining his life bad enough to kill them. Killing a large group of innocent people is never good. Can we agree on that at least?
Mar 10 2008 11:38PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
do what? :P                         

charmander needs to know, how to put words in context (he clearly doesn't)   and i simply corrected his mistake..




"Christianity also totaly renounces all existence of dinosaurs too"    
                   i think we can both agree this is a pretty rash statement.      
if he can say that, and get away with it... then i should be able to say,    "i think all muslems want to kill the infidels"           now obviously i dont believe that,  do you see where im going with this?
Mar 10 2008 11:51PM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 32
You guy's want to read some gnarly shit? Go to your bookstore or library and pick up the book " 101 people you won't meet in heaven"

Man there are some FUCKED up stories in this book. There's this one Nazi lady who went and made lamps and tablecloths and shit from the skin of the people she personally killed.

Then there's this one dictator(can't remember the name) who would go around raping all the women in his town and he would butcher their husbands in front of them and keep their body parts in his fridge to eat.

Of course the book goes into much more gruesome details...... so be warned this shit is guaranteed to make your stomach turn
Mar 10 2008 11:56PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
Can we agree on that at least?




++  thats fine by me
Mar 11 2008 12:16AM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
I've found I recently agree with Friedrich Nietzsche's stand, in which there is no absolute truth, because everything we have given to be an absolute truth is simply a metaphor that is defined from other comparisons.
Mar 11 2008 1:30PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ok i cant tell you, how many times ive been told dont make generalizations..   well my origonal post was in response to a huge, grossly unjustified generalization, here it is,       "Christianity also totaly renounces all existence of dinosaurs too"       now he just made a huge generalization,  you  and everyone else in this thread, never  brought this up, why? because i think you like the generalizations that agree with your view point?  am i right?          

also, i would say you have a very narrow minded view on Christianity if  "in you experience"   most Christians agree with evolution as a metaphor..   

one more thing, i never said, that i think the world is X years old, i dont know how old it is, and neither do you, you might have an idea, but, you really dont KNOW how old it is..      

to finish my little mini rant, rebuttal, whatever..   i would hope we can agree that the quote "Christianity also totaly renounces all existence of dinosaurs too"      is just plane wrong and uncalled for.

Mar 11 2008 2:34PM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
maybe some things are constructive and some things are destructive could be natures form of good and evil
Mar 11 2008 2:36PM
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John.
Posts: 1327 - Karma: 11
To get back to the original question, I definitely believe there is good and evil in the world. Pure good and evil, leaning no. But to some people who said that they think good and evil don't really exist, I really disagree. I don't think an"evil" act (what most people would define as evil, ex. murder) can be justified by saying that it was in the best interest of survival for that human. I think a big part of what separates us from animals is our ability to think beyond the immediate rewards of an action and consider the consequences it will have for other people.




Mar 11 2008 3:04PM
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seemeski
Posts: 4210 - Karma: 124
No. What makes good or bad ranges from person to person. It would be impossible for many to agree that one ething is pure good, or pure evil. I don't know, Anthony Burgess explains something realated to this in the foreward of A Clockwork Orange.
Mar 11 2008 9:54PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59

we bother having a legal system because good and bad are not subjective... Evil is all things we collectively condemn as wrong, Good is the things we praise as right.


Mar 12 2008 1:38AM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
 now that that question is answered, is buttsex good or evil?
Mar 13 2008 8:00PM
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