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TROUBLE MAKERS

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spyderman
Posts: 9 - Karma: 10
The question is Trouble Makers vs. 1080 181's........I need your feedback as I am in the middle of getting new skis and can't decide between the 2.

Thanx.
Oct 1 2003 4:04AM
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P-JO
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 75
1080s I've heard have a foam core thats gets all flexible and craptastic. So my vote is for the Troublemakers and that is probably what you'll hear.
Oct 1 2003 4:13AM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
troublemakers are bulletproof...1080's are guaranteed to delam...possible snap

Freds Freeride
Gwyne

SRMC
Oct 1 2003 4:25AM
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D-40
Posts: 6050 - Karma: 100
foam core = no good
Oct 1 2003 4:39AM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
there are no difference between wood core and foam core, actually some of the more expensive foam cores are alot stronger, i'd also like to point out that strenght of the core itself does not matter, remeber the core is only like half a centimeter thick, if you were to ski on just the core it would break after one bump no matter what it is, all the core does it control vibrations through the ski and how it flexes, what make the ski strong is how well the top sheet bottom and sheet and sidewalls (if any) are bonded to the core




Seize the carp
Oct 1 2003 5:26AM
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LineBoarder
Posts: 3762 - Karma: 84
definitely troublemakers.. no questions asked





'I'm far from broke, got enough bread and mad hoes, ask Beavis I get nuttin Butt-head' - Big L

* Empire Freeride, Session 3*
Oct 1 2003 6:01AM
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phUnk
Posts: 647 - Karma: 35
Papa is wrong. There definitely is a difference between wood and foam core skis. Wood cores tend to keep their snap much longer than foam coare. They also tend to be more durable.

Of course, there are other variables involved in durability.

My Troublemakers get here in a week. Stoked.

====================
Welcome back, mommy.
Oct 1 2003 8:37AM
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schlonginator
Posts: 3971 - Karma: 27
fuck all the space fram haters out here, get the 1080s, they are def a sick ski. They'll ride better all over the mountain as well as in pow




___________________________

NH_Line:ya oakleys skis are no rumor!!!!!!!!! offffff the hook, the are coming out with the Osama Pros, and t-hall is leaving Armada to ride them, they also will come with a free bling bling necklace

ArmadaFreerider8:Where can you get a pic of the new oakley skis?

Ds91260: i already got my osama pros, i stole them from a cave in afganistan

ArmadaFreerider8: Why would tanner hall leave armada after he just helped start it
Oct 1 2003 10:23AM
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SaraJ
Posts: 366 - Karma: 52
i'm pretty sure papa knows his shit. but, as i haven't ridden either ski, i'm not gunna say anything for what you should get. try demoing if you want a real opinion, which is yours. riders preference is all that matters i think until it comes to construction quality. that's why you ask 'what conditions can these skis go through and still stay in top shape?'

-Sara

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
skihood.com
Oct 1 2003 3:09PM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
think about it this way, wood is fibrous meaning the wood cells are long and they are place lenghtwise in a ski, meaning when you have vibration is gonna travel through you're whole ski making it less stable and very chattery, wehre as a foam core is a bunch of molecules just cramed together with no spaces , meaning there is no where to for vibration energy to move down the ski, the foam basically inhibits the traveling of it




Seize the carp
Oct 1 2003 6:32PM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
oh ya and to the snap comment, both skis will be exactly the same up until say about 8 years, then 8 years down the road you'll notice that a wood core has more snpa, but until then you're probably gonna get another 2 pairs of skis at least so it doesn't matter




Seize the carp
Oct 1 2003 6:33PM
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manus
Posts: 1427 - Karma: 10
Papa, not necessarily true. Most skis are designed for about 100 days on snow. For the average skier, that is about 10 years (most consumers ski about 10 times a year). Now another thing is that foam core skis tend to breakdown after time if not maintained 100% properly, which can lead to a concave/convex base (the ski rides on the edges, or rides on the base with the edges lifted off the snow). Yes, this can be prevented by properly maintaining wax levels (making sure they are always waxed) and especially by putting a nice heavy coat of wax, and not scrapping, on the ski before putting them away (off-season). Typically, most skiers will feel like a foam ski is a softer flex (granted different top/bottom sheets can affect this), this is often because there is nothing structually in the core to make up the camber of the ski. Basically once the ski loses its camber its shot, its not going to ski properly anymore. A wood core ski typically will hold its camber better than a foam core ski, and is not as succeptible to core breakdown. Typically, skiers will feel like a wood core ski is 'stiffer' or has more snap, because of the (as you said) linear cell structure of wood, it will try to push itself back into the shape it was designed (try to push the tip and tail back, creating the camber).

Now to look a little deeper into the core, you can have a couple different types of wood core. Most are steamed and bent to create the camber. The problem is that this will, over time, 'breakdown' and bend back into a flat piece of wood (camber breakdown). But, some manufacturers actually cut the camber of the ski, instead of bending it, meaning its natural shape is the skis production camber. This will take a longer times to breakdown, since the ski actually has to bend out of its natural state to become a flat piece of wood.

Hopefully this explains a little bit, but the most important thing is what the skier is looking for, personally, I try to stay away from foam core skis, but I would never decide between skis strictly based on core material.
Oct 1 2003 7:26PM
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manus
Posts: 1427 - Karma: 10
my brain hurts, now
Oct 1 2003 7:26PM
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phUnk
Posts: 647 - Karma: 35
Seriously Papa, you're blowing smoke up our asses with all that 'long, fibrous wood fibers = chatter' and shit. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Please don't make shit up and act like it's the truth.

Wood cores keep their snap and ski better for longer than foam core skis. That's the way it is. It doesn't mean that should be the only consideration when buying skis, but it is one of the considerations.

====================
Welcome back, mommy.
Oct 2 2003 6:52AM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
^dude, i work in a shop, my cousin is a salomon rep, i think i know what i'm talking about




Seize the carp
Oct 2 2003 7:08AM
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daddy-o
Posts: 574 - Karma: 10
trouble makers may be bulletproof, but they'll fuggin shatter all over the place when you try to slide a rail with them. Or land backseat on a jump

fukin pieces of shit
Oct 2 2003 8:10AM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
^you know nothing about troublemakers...go snap your shitty 1080's in half, unless of course you're on salomons team and get the wood core ones. fuck salomon

Freds Freeride
Gwyne

SRMC
Oct 2 2003 8:59AM
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manus
Posts: 1427 - Karma: 10
^ brings up an interesting point in the whole wood core versus foam core thing, if the foam core is so great why does Salomon put a wood core in their race/pro stock skis and yet only foam core goes out to the general public
Oct 2 2003 3:36PM
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DynastarriderGP
Posts: 8258 - Karma: 214
Get Troublemakers , I also heard they're god for skiing all over the mountain








You can't spell crap without rap
Oct 2 2003 4:44PM
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bass_munkie
Posts: 300 - Karma: 10
haha they don't send all their pro riders wood cores... but talking to a few guys who ride for salomon they tend to break there bindings first! haha i aint a big salamon fan but the core debate is a bit lame you wanna kno which are best for you... try them! personally i would prefer to be on dynastars and i reakon you can't go far wrong with em.... plus the new troublemakers grafics are fukin sick!
Oct 2 2003 5:20PM
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phUnk
Posts: 647 - Karma: 35
You're right, Papa. You must know what you're talking about. If you work in a shop, there is no possible way you're a retard who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Because, as we all know from personal experience, there are absolutely no retards working in shops. Specifically, there are absolutely no retards who have no idea what they are talking about but think they do because 'they work in a shop.'

Therefore, it stands that if you work in a shop (which, you do,) then you must know what you're talking about because you couldn't possibly be a retard (due to your previously mentioned 'working in a shop' status.)

I'm glad we got that cleared up.

====================
Welcome back, mommy.
Oct 2 2003 5:25PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
^hahaha

Freds Freeride
Gwyne

SRMC
Oct 2 2003 5:35PM
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Ahmets_Brother
Posts: 20283 - Karma: 5,931
tms are the best

up in arms apperal represent

representin the east
Oct 3 2003 12:23AM
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jman
Posts: 3117 - Karma: 19
the pictures don't do the trouble makers justice, go with them
Oct 3 2003 1:38AM
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kjfreerider
Posts: 2495 - Karma: 14
tm grafics are ugly but 1080 gafics are even worse so chalk another one up for the tm's
kjfreerider
Oct 3 2003 6:29AM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
#1 the tm graphics are sick you're all crazy. what other ski changes colors.
#2 does a graphic effect the way a ski works...no.

Freds Freeride
Gwyne

SRMC
Oct 3 2003 5:10PM
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mommy
Posts: 12072 - Karma: 59
the trade marks are tiny shit. go 181 hallo?
Oct 3 2003 7:38PM
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P-JO
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 75
en response to manus, Im pretty sure wood core is not open to the public because its a lot easier and cheaper to inject cheap foam and call it space age technology.
Oct 3 2003 8:01PM
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spyderman
Posts: 9 - Karma: 10
Thanx for all your input...do the Trouble Makers come bigger than 175??? as I am 6'4 240 lbs.
Oct 3 2003 11:28PM
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P-JO
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 75
yeah dewd, you pry need a bigger size. In midseason there suppose to have a 182cm. but I have no idea what date they're gonna be released?
Oct 3 2003 11:34PM
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marlin_102
Posts: 2430 - Karma: 11
i think the 182 is coming out at the beginning of the season. the shop i work at is being gay and not stocking tm's but in the order catalogue it said it comes in 165, 175 and 182. so im guessing the 182 is beginning of the season, but i could be wrong.


'ghostdragon is like milk. sometimes when it sits too long in thr fridge it gets crusty things around the cap that sometimes fall into your glass when your not careful.' - cj


'if you love something, fuck it in the ass...if it screams, cries and bleeds toss it in the dumpster...if anything else, you've got yourself a keeper' - Alpentalik

-Ayrton
Oct 4 2003 4:42AM
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shawnm1260
Posts: 3219 - Karma: 66
a wood core has lots of pop and is durable but the problem is that the ski tends to flex differently in dif weather.. if its super cold the ski will act one way and if its hot the ski will feel differnet. with foam cores, they sacrifice some longlife, but they have a consistant flex in all conditions, and still have a ton of pop.....

i guess what im trying to say is; buy rossi, we have wood for pop and long life and foam for consistant flex and isocore for a lightweight torsionally stiff ski,

Oct 4 2003 5:23AM
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daddy-o
Posts: 574 - Karma: 10
I don't ski on salomon, you piece of shit it'd be better than shit dynastars bullshit
Oct 4 2003 5:28AM
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BakerBoy
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 18
And boots flex differently in different temperatures, and bindings probably act differently also. But my poles, what about my poles? Will my poles still pole in varying temperatures?! OH GOD!
Oct 4 2003 5:59AM
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emo_rocker
Posts: 93 - Karma: 13
I have trouble makers but i havn't ridden them so it all really depends on what you think
Oct 4 2003 11:35AM
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shawnm1260
Posts: 3219 - Karma: 66
hey it dosent bother me. but thats one difference i was just pointing out,
Oct 4 2003 2:46PM
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xskier2
Posts: 29 - Karma: 10
I just got some TM's, im looking forward to skiing on um when some snow gets hear.

Oct 4 2003 9:46PM
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DynastarriderGP
Posts: 8258 - Karma: 214
I've heard that 1080's delaminate easily.





You can't spell crap without rap

'It's getting hard trying to progress this sport' -Seth Morrison Spitting out blood and suffering a broken nose after attempting a rodeo off an 80 foot cliff
Nov 14 2003 10:13AM
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vtrider
Posts: 1988 - Karma: 41
not to start more aruguments, but there are some plus sides to foam core skis, such as:
1. foam core skis can gereraly be produced at a cheaper rate, which keeps the price down for all of use.
2. Foam not a nautral material, wood is. With this in mind, wood is inconsistant. Foam for the most part (unless there is a manufaturing error) will be very consistant, whereas wood can very from where they get it, so there are some discrepeincys.
3. most of the market cant really tell at differance anyway. Now when i say most of the market, I mean everyone who skis, inculding those joeys who only make it up 2 weekends a year. Now for them, a foam core ski is ideal. Personaly, i think that all park skis need to say away from salomon 1080 like construction, they ride like driftwood. TM is a much better choice.

_________________________________________________________

Salomon X Scream Freeride skis (187's) Brand new condition mounted once 150 obo

Salomon Xscream boots Size 29-29.5 75 obo.

-TroubleMakers, With Look P12 Jibs, Either 175's or 182's, which ever I feel i dont need. make me an offer.

PM me

Nov 14 2003 10:23AM
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patrickcowan
Posts: 3713 - Karma: 218
trouble maker have insanee pop in the tail and can ski all over the mountain. I heard teneighties were kinda wimpy skis too and that they delaminate fast
resource ranger
Nov 14 2003 12:13PM
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MaryJane
Posts: 193 - Karma: 10
I was told by the employee purchase reps at Dynastar that the TM 182 will be in stock (and I quote) 'by mid november, possibly sooner.'

In a second email to him, I asked, 'So if I send my order in now, (end of Octobet) I should have them by the middle to end of november?' He said, 'Yeah, and be sure to get you're order in soon because there have been a lot of people wanting that size!'

Just and FYI

-------------------

Donkification
Nov 14 2003 2:35PM
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zeckgx
Posts: 794 - Karma: 30
I have ridden both, based on feel and performance hers what i got:

1080:Loose but responsive, average ride
TM: Tight and responsive, fun/ good ride

both are awesome skis, just the tms feel tigher and more responsive
-------------------
Just throw caution to the wind
Nov 14 2003 2:55PM
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seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
tms are sick

i got to ride my buddies in tremblant lastyear and they were awesome all over the place.

i was probably 50% in the park and 50% in the glades and the ski was wicked good.

i cant wait to get mine
Nov 14 2003 4:13PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
i rode my troublemakers alll over killy and park fred today.....best & most fun ski i've ever ridden.

and this is what i read from rihmer: blah blah blah ski blah blah blah blah blah blah blah : )

h3o films
Freds Freeride
Line
Nov 14 2003 5:18PM
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HVskier
Posts: 924 - Karma: 38
I have ridden both, the 1080 for one day and the tm for two. I thought they both were good skis but I liked the TM better. The tm's felt more energetic and qicker responding, just more fun to ride. Their pop is real nice too. One thing that bugs me about the tm are the edges. I have seen a 1080 delam too, the guy was on em less than 10 days and didn't abuse them at all.
Nov 14 2003 9:19PM
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vtrider
Posts: 1988 - Karma: 41
Hey Amanda, give me some credit, I sumed it up with ''TM is a much better choice.'' I just gave some plus sides to foam, and why its produced.

Ohh, and the 182 TM's are intirely sold out from dynastar, to get them you need to find a shop that has them in stock, like freds.
_________________________________________________________

Salomon X Scream Freeride skis (187's) Brand new condition mounted once 150 obo

Salomon Xscream boots Size 29-29.5 75 obo.

-TroubleMakers, With Look P12 Jibs, Either 175's or 182's, which ever I feel i dont need. make me an offer.

PM me

Nov 14 2003 11:35PM
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olivier
Posts: 113 - Karma: 10
buy wat you think is the best for you and theirs nothing wrong with the foam core
PEACE-LOVE-UNITY
Nov 16 2003 6:11PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
:) thank you for that plug rihm

h3o films
Freds Freeride
Line
Nov 17 2003 4:09PM
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five0
Posts: 11466 - Karma: 36
buy tm's ur stupid if u dont take the 20 or so people that say trouble makers...and vtrider and soxripper (only ones i can remember) actually have them and know theyre good
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

'I have luffahs'

SRMC

-kevan
Nov 17 2003 4:18PM
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threejay
Posts: 2584 - Karma: 15
i have em and love em



well to keep it real I started being a Poser Poser. I dress and act like a poser, but i'm not really a poser. I just pose to look like a poser posing. you know just keepin it underground
-youthinasia
Nov 17 2003 4:45PM
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Kev
Posts: 7411 - Karma: 35
trouble makers 175 or 182?


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Nov 17 2003 6:08PM
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