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December, 2024

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Investment Banking

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dman1260
Posts: 899 - Karma: 13
Anyones parents, relatives, or friends work in I-banking?  I really want to get into the field and want to know if anyone has any first or second hand experience with it.  Any information would be appreciated. 
Feb 26 2008 2:27AM
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rockymountainmilitia
Posts: 2706 - Karma: 12
congratulations you love money.

welcome to 10-12 hrs days; 6 days a week, constantly researching potential investments and creating business reports on companies.

say goodbye to skiing, partying, working out, having a girlfriend. etc. your work will become your life.

however you will get to dress in snappy suits, hit the ultra lounges and plush business bars in your downtown core and hand out business cards with your name and the words investment banking in bold.

ITS NOT WORTH IT. There is way way better gigs out there.
Feb 26 2008 2:48AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 150
A massive tradeoff between money and stress. VERY visible in the banking sector.
Feb 26 2008 4:15AM
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aussieskier
Posts: 805 - Karma: 182
i have not had much in banking but i have around 50 grand worth of shares in about 8 different companie, and i started with about 11 grand.
its worth it and can be fun. i still do everything i want and put about 3 hrs in a day after my regular job.
you just need to be able to risk losing it all.
Feb 26 2008 5:05AM
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DrStrangelove
Posts: 1948 - Karma: 3
yah you have no idea what investment banking is...

the bottom line, kid, is that to be an I-banker  you basically have to trade in your idea of a life for what the first guy said: 10-12 hour days with stress coming out your ass, etc. apparently it doesnt get any better for like 5-10 years either. so yeah, if youre REALLY into economics, like meaning you have a huge boner for and cant get enough, then i-banking is right for you. if not, save yourself and do something that's actually going to make you happy, because i-banking is going to take yeeeeears off your life if you end up hating it.

i considered becoming an investment banker at one but, but i completely threw that idea out the window once i realized what a soul-sucking, hellish job it can be. i know a lot of people who are getting offers from huge firms in london, new york, etc, and i actually feel sorry for them...

go to fucking law school and then get into real-estate developement with some of your friends or something, it'll be 100 times better
Feb 26 2008 7:52AM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
Fuck if you only get 12 hour days you hit the jackpot in i-banking, it usually worse than that. Plus you're on call 24/7 with your blackberry. I've had quite a few friends do it, and a couple that still do, and I don't see them very often.
Feb 26 2008 11:43AM
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japanair
Posts: 441 - Karma: 40
ya in reality it's about 80-100 hour weeks if not more.  Its basicaly a 7 day a week job.  If that's what you want to do, I wouldn't discourage you like the others, but they are right, it's going to take your entire life.  At the same time, you'll be making a lot more money than your peers and you'll be able to land any job afterwards or go to most any business school.  PM me if you're interested in knowing more.  This isn't a claim or anything (actually it's an anti-claim) but I got offers from GS and JPM in tokyo and I can tell you about the industry, how to craft your resume, how to interview, etc etc.  

That being said, there are other jobs in finance (with investment banks) that aren't as time consuming.  You might want to look at sales and trading or equity research.  if you don't know what they mean, again PM me.
Feb 26 2008 12:05PM
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snowbird4life
Posts: 2265 - Karma: 26
i really want to hear MORE about all of this from you people that seem to know a bunch.



even if you think its blood sucking tell me why and just more about it!
Feb 26 2008 12:24PM
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BeerGoggles
Posts: 712 - Karma: 11
Yeah this is a pretty interesting thread. If Japanair or anyone else would have more info it would be much appreciated.

I'm just finishing an 8 month internship in the marketing department for a tech company and I'm heavily weighing in the option of changing into finance when I get back to school. Although the experience was enjoyable, I cant see myself doing this for the rest of my life.
Feb 26 2008 12:42PM
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rockymountainmilitia
Posts: 2706 - Karma: 12
you are confined to a desk. you get there at 7 or 8 in the morning and dont leave till that time at night. rarely do you leave for lunch. there is endless amounts of work and it all HAS to be done. proposal after proposal after proposal. your job for the first few years will be researching companies and building a business report to hand to your superiors so they can find investors for the companies wanting to go public. you are a grunt, and you are treated like one. you work in teams but even in your team you are constantly dealing with people who will try and step on you and get the "one up". Nobody is there because they love their job. The like the idea that at the end of the day they put a grand in the bank. now starting out thats a pipe dream. especially this day in age. if your team doesnt make qoutas you dont get bonuses. You need that bonus to make your extra cash. here most people start out at 60-80.000 starting. Broken down hourly you make little more then 20 bucks and hour. If your team does well you will get a good bonus. Usually it is capped for your first couple years. i.e. your bonus can not excede 50% of your salary. So you work your ass of for $30.00 and hour. If you are good at it, after a couple years you'll start making good money. I have a buddy who makes half a million a year and he's been in the business for 5 years. he's 26 and a millionaire. I have seen him a dozen times in 3 years. He constantly works. He lives in this amazing house that literally took him 2 years to furnish because he didnt have the time to go looking for shit. He has only cooked in his kitchen a handful of times. His life revolves around resturants and takeout. He used to go skiing all the time. He hasnt been in 2 years. He drives a BMW, wears $5000 suits and is literally obsessed with money. Everything to him is about his paycheck. And its not just this one friend, he's the success story. I have a couple other buddies who started with him at different banks and private firms and they dont make nearly as much and after 5 years they are still grunts. sure they make 250000 but they sacrifice everything for it.
Feb 26 2008 12:45PM
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DrStrangelove
Posts: 1948 - Karma: 3
i said "soul-sucking," as in it kills you emotionally over time if youre not super into it. 

a friend of mine just finished interning in london and she only slept 2 hours every night, sometimes she even slept in the office, if was completely draining. 

the possibility exists that you could make vast sums of money in i-banking, but it's just not worth it in MY opinion. basically take whatever notion you currently have of a "normal" life and kiss it goodbye...honestly...the remainder of your actual youth will be spent in a cubicle. you can make great living so many other ways, i just couldnt see myself in i-banking. 
Feb 26 2008 2:04PM
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japanair
Posts: 441 - Karma: 40
So a lot of what's been said is true.  If anything people in this thread are UNDERestimating the hours.  ok so an 8am to 8pm job. that's not that bad at all. I do that in consulting and its all good.  With ibanking we're talking 8am to midnight or even later.  I know a lot of people that are running off of 4 hours of sleep as ibankers.  The thing with ibanking is you can do it for 2 years and be in a really great place after that.  See it as a 2 year sacrifice.  Basically the guy a few posts above is correct. you research and research and make these "pitch books" which are basically huge reports on why someone should buy or sell a company.  It's a lot of hard work, but not difficult work.  Most people have the brains to do it, very few have the energy, endurance or desire to do it.  You better really f-ing like money, and if you don't you will be brain washed into loving money. 

So as an analyst you have a couple exit strategies.  You can go to business school after 2 years, burn out and quit, or get promoted to an associate.  Most people don't get promoted.  You better really be a baller to get promoted and you'll be competing against some of the smartest people in the world. 

So some of the alternatives that I mentioned in the previous post are:
a. equity research - this is what it sounds like you study stocks (equity).  You research stocks, talk to company heads, and write a quarterly report on why people should buy or sell stocks (not entire companies like in investment banking).  You say hey Google is at $500 bucks and i think it'll be $600 next year because of x, y and z.  You work decent hours (8am -7pm) except during earnings call season when you'll work a bit more (8am to 10pm).  LIke i said, it's not ibanking hours and it seems a lot, but its really not too bad.

b. Sales and trading - two different functions. Sales people go out and sell financial instruments to rich people and organiztions.  Basically use the research reports created by the equity research guy and tell mutual funds to buy stocks x y and z. Traders on the other hand actually do the trading for the investment bank, using the investment bank's cash.  This is what you guys who trade stocks might like.  You actually sit in front of a ocmputer with like 4 monitors and sit around trading stocks and bonds all day (depending on what you're assigned to).  YOu gotta be super good with math and be able to do calcualtions all in your head.  One of the questions in my interview was "what's 17 time 43" and the guy expected me to have it figured out in less than 5 seconds.  And really trading is kind of exciting because its' all up to you. you make money and you get a cut. you lose money and you get cut. simple as that.

Feb 26 2008 2:17PM
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Bagels
Posts: 1022 - Karma: 1,306
This sums it up!  Our managing director comes to work in a Porsche Carrera when the weather isn't bad.
Feb 26 2008 2:19PM
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Bagels
Posts: 1022 - Karma: 1,306

Sorry, Carrera GT.  The entire parking garage rumbles. 

Feb 26 2008 2:27PM
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cmeriptahoe
Posts: 1785 - Karma: 12
Here is a great thread from TGR that discuss I-Banking and some trade offs and such. The premise of the thread is actually whether this guys friend should go straight into it or take a year off and ski bum but I think it is one of the most insightful threads I've read in a while and gives a good perspective on the life.
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113985
Feb 26 2008 2:50PM
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Ghost
Posts: 7116 - Karma: 339
Yes I'm an advocate for real estate, but I whole-heartedly agree with this statement. If I stacked up 10 real estate developers & investors side by side with 10 Investment bankers I've met; you'd be amazed at how polarized their lifestyles are. The set of real estate investors are much more able to set their own hours, take vacations, and reap benefits of their passive income without having to stress about the markets on a daily basis. Yes there are going to be pros and cons on both... But for me when you line them up side to side, it's night and day. The freedom alone makes it a nobrainer.
But by all means, if investment banking is something that you have a passion for and can really see yourself doing. then do it! Go after what you love doing and the money will follow. All too often people try to flip that equation, but it just doesn't work.
Feb 26 2008 3:07PM
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hotdog.garbage
Posts: 1854 - Karma: 10
Real estate is alright. But you get even more freedom being a headhunter. Theres tons of money to be made and you can make your own hours and work as much as you want.
Feb 26 2008 3:17PM
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japanair
Posts: 441 - Karma: 40
also, you might want to work in consulting. Shit hours but not nearly as shit as ibanking.  The best perk is the travel. Instead of flying home for the weekend, you can fly to UT or CO and have the ticket paid for.  Of course, I say this as I am about to quit consulting because I hate the travel. 
Feb 26 2008 3:40PM
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Ghost
Posts: 7116 - Karma: 339
eh, so I imagine this guy gets to set his own hours ;)
HeadHunter

I guess it's all subjective though. You've got headhunters out there with awesome hours and perks that can't be beat.. But then on the same hand I know guys who've retired at 25 in real estate investing.. and when you're retired, you can't really beat those hours. heh
Bottom line, do what you love doing. There are amazing opportunities in many lines of work.
I just happen to support real estate as an alternative because it's what I know, something I love, and have seen more people make millions with little effort than anything else. So for me it was a win-win.
Feb 26 2008 3:41PM
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bkjumpr
Posts: 173 - Karma: 10
My dad started as an accountant, then turned investment banker, and now its something else.  But, I can tell you this, he worked long, long hours as an investment banker.  He liked the work, and made money so he was happy with it. 
Feb 26 2008 3:47PM
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golf
Posts: 1418 - Karma: 14
It's rediculous how easy it is to make money off the governtment like bonds and stocks. I have been researchign so much stuff and hope fully I will finish college get a good job and with all the money I make I'm jsut going to make a couple moves then I'll be set with a ton of cash in like 5 to 10 years. Thats a far ways away I know but I have it all planned out.
Feb 26 2008 4:51PM
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dman1260
Posts: 899 - Karma: 13
I'm actually about to graduate and I'm going be doing consulting work.  I'm just looking at options down the road and trying to get an idea what I might want to do after getting an MBA.

And to everyone else, I know about all the shit you are talking about, I was just looking to see if anyone had experience it themselves or if their parents had so I could get a real genuine take on it.  Not just that the hours are long (everyone knows that), but if the job felt like it had any meaning, if the work was halfway enjoyable, if they were able to leverage it and go somewhere else with it later down the line. 

Also, yeah, I do like money, but thats not the only reason a job like this could be appealing.  If I get an associate position in an i-bank, a hedge fund, or a PE firm, I could work until my mid-thirties, have a ton of money and retire to Whistler and ski my life away.  Sounds like a good plan for me. 
Feb 26 2008 11:13PM
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Oreos
Posts: 1207 - Karma: 38
as i'm in the process of applying for internships - constant writing out of why you want to work for so and so, what skills you have, what research you've done on the firm etc.. - i just thought i'd give this thread a little bumb.
Oct 23 2009 11:56AM
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Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
My Gf's dad is pretty high up at State Street Bank in Boston. He is a workaholic, i think you have to be to work in that field.
Oct 23 2009 11:59AM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296

a lot of what people said above is true. hours, money etc. basically it comes down to you work feverishly for 15-20 years until you are completely burnt out. yeah your sitting on a pile of fucking money, have a Cayenne parked in your 3 car garage in your log cabin at the base of Deer Valley but your bald from stress, divorced, and still trying to be "that guy." there are certainly other ways of making boatloads of money and if you are smart enough to do investment banking then you are smart enough to figure out how.

the whole banking industry has been/is being turned upside down. just today on the news they announced ANOTHER new regulation to curb huge bonuses and substantial salaries for the banking industry. Do you really want to be the new guy working at Credit Suisse who's salary is topped out at $95k because a couple of schmucks at AIG & Lehman mad some terrible bets and didnt hedege them 2 years ago?

A few people mentioned real estate. If you want to be an investor/developer you have to have money to make money. with the exception of Royal families and people that come FROM money most of the big players in the real estate industry made their money somewhere else and started buying real estate. working for one of these owners/developers has potential to make money as well. Im the controller for a large owner/developer. times are SHITTY right now. but real estate always rebounds. the 10 year cycle.

Oct 23 2009 12:22PM
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pajibber
Posts: 614 - Karma: 42
I worked in Private Equity at a Venture Cap Firm for three years and let me tell you this:

Think about the most competitive intelligent person you've ever met... he won't cut it in the i-bank world. You not only have to be very smart and a very hard worker, but you have to LOVE working. I repeat love working. I took 12 hours of vacation time in one year, because I had MRSA cut out of a wound. You don't miss work, you miss your weekend. You'll miss everything you enjoyed in life for at least 3 years. The work is not complicated it is just exhaustive, and personally exhausting. You have to be smart because you have to be able to not make mistakes after working for 13 hours on 3 hours of sleep.

This is not to say don't do it. Some people love it. They love expensive things that they'll use by the time their body won't be able to use them any more.

I suggest if you are smart enough, and driven enough to succeed in i-banking then take that passion and cleverness to something you actually care about. If you spend the time working on a company of your own, that you would've spent in NYC for three years at an i-bank then you'll undoubtedly succeed.

I started my own company and now have more freedom and a very similar financial status to my former peers at Bessemer, and Kleiner.

I do have contacts in Private Equity at VC and Hedge Funds if you are interested PM me.
Oct 23 2009 12:36PM
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TechnoPotamus
Posts: 11626 - Karma: 3,522
I was interested in doing i-banking but after doing the research and hearing all of the same responses that are being said in this thread, i decided it wasn't for me.

Instead, I became a financial advisor and so far I like it.
Oct 23 2009 12:42PM
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pajibber
Posts: 614 - Karma: 42
If you think this is something you really want to do then PM me I will point you in the right direction for how to get started. The good part about the suck out after year 2/3 is the opportunities available to you afterwards. My former peers work in.... Energy: Exploration, Emerging Market Development, Renewables etc... Govt: Work at Freddie/Fannie, one at the Fed... Transportation: VP of CSX... Real Estate: Works at Walker Dunlap doing real estate investing and development.... Business School: A major track for people who don't get offered Associate positions, or like myself Self Employed = Whatever you want it to.... Trust me after a few years pouring over companies sheets like this and you'll be able to see a healthy business without binoculars.
Oct 23 2009 12:54PM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
I love getting money.

Right now the gov't is selling $1 coins at face value and free shipping. So $1 for $1. They accept credit cards, so you get a credit card with 5% cash back, buy $5000 of $1 coins, deposit them in a 3 year 2-3% CD, and BOOYAA free money
Oct 23 2009 2:22PM
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3ski6guy0
Posts: 9201 - Karma: 134

minus working all day everyday investment banking would be pretty cool. basically you need to decide do you want to make work your life or have fun on a mediocre salary? id go with ahving fun because even though you are earning tons of money in the field you hardly have any time to use it except for buying a stupidly big house

Oct 23 2009 3:13PM
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laurence^
Posts: 1575 - Karma: 19
How is that going for you? How was the interview process, any technicals(financial advisor)? I'm pretty much in the same boat as you right now.

Doing my research and going over what it really means to work in i-banking. I feel as though if I'm half way there I won't be able to withstand it. True dedication to it would only make sense since everywhere I read and I mean everywhere even in career resources and personal feedback, even with Canadian banks, the i-banking divisions require 12-15 hours of work each and every day. I think I'm interested in banks but not with i-banking and also interesting in the buy-side of finance. Good thread here.
Dec 21 2010 2:32PM
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zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350
My brother and his wife are financial advisors. Together they make over $250k a year. She works a pretty good amount because she has a lot of drive. But my brother works usually 3-4 days a week meeting with a client for maybe a couple hours. He has a lot of free time, and makes a crazy amount of money. He just closed a deal recently and his commission is $80k. He is going to save it for the new year so he basically starts off 2010 with $80k.

It's a pretty nice gig. But you take a lot of responsibility. Sometimes you screw up and lose a client millions of dollars too.
Dec 21 2010 2:42PM
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zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350
I meant to quote the guy asking about being a financial advisor.
Dec 21 2010 2:43PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
Which developer is that?

I am a real estate head hunter for salaries under $110,000. Do you have influence with the HR department in your firm?
Dec 21 2010 2:49PM
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laurence^
Posts: 1575 - Karma: 19
Ya, thanks.
Dec 21 2010 2:51PM
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N-John360
Posts: 835 - Karma: 8
This isn't exactly finance but I would encourage you all (especially high schoolers/ first & second year college students considering majors) to look at Forensic Accounting. Forensic Accounting is a field where one makes sure that financial accounting rules/regulations are being followed. Basically, you try to find out when people are committing fraud.

Just in the past couple days, a major fraud at Ernst & Young and a massive insider trading scandal was exposed. The degree is very up-and-coming and sought after. You can work almost anywhere- Big Four accounting firms, law firms, the government (FBI/CIA/SEC), etc.

Personally, as a forensic accounting major, I have internship interviews coming up with UBS and a local army depot coming up, I have my foot in the door at the U.S. State Department and am hoping for an interview, and have already interviewed at Johnson & Johnson.

I know this thread was a bit off topic, but I hope I could be of help for those searching for a career path.
Dec 21 2010 4:18PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296
I've actually quit my job since that post. I didnt even realize this thread was from 2009. I was the Controller of Development Properties at The Moinian Group for 4 years. I recently quit (without even having another job) and am now doing consulting work for banks that are involved in under water development deals.
Although this thread is old, anyone coming here for advice now is the time to get involved in the private equity/fund side of the banking & real estate industry. There are a ton of people/firms with capital sitting on the sidelines now waiting to pounce on the market. These companies like Lehman that went out of business left a lot of assets and loans on the market that are being picked up left and right. And not just real estate stuff. The more fucked up the deal the better for the buyer.
Dec 22 2010 3:50PM
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mason-
Posts: 955 - Karma: 45
crazy this thread came up. I actually want to be an investment banker. Only a senior now, my plan is to go to Duke, get an MBA and then dedicate my life to investment banking, lol at least for a few years of hell. I know the work sucks and is hardcore, but I definitely want to do it.

Investment banking fascinates me
Dec 22 2010 4:09PM
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.newman.
Posts: 1552 - Karma: 236
I was an intern at an investment bank this summer.

cuz im too lazy to write anything new and long about it. here is the paragraph that i used in my college apps about it.

I wasselected to apply for a position at America’s Growth Capital, an investmentbank based in Boston, so I interviewed with them last spring and wrote my firstresume and cover letter. The applicationprocess itself was a tremendous experience, but I also got the job. Over the course of the five-week program Idid everything from coffee runs to M&A research. We were tested on financial reports andlearned how to dissect and analyze 10K and 10Q reports. I started with almost no knowledge of whatgoes on day-to-day at an investment bank and left with an understanding offinance and economics that I didn’t expect to gain until college. The internship provided me with insight into thebusiness world as well as invaluable experience and contacts, hopefully givingme a leg up on the competition in my future job searches.


Overall, it was some great work experience but it was brutal and long. Some of the employees worked 16 hour days, doing whatever it took to get their assignments done.

Dec 22 2010 4:14PM
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Mr.Turtle
Posts: 3690 - Karma: 96
im looking to do the same as you except maybe work for a year or two before getting my MBA
Dec 22 2010 4:31PM
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laurence^
Posts: 1575 - Karma: 19
How did you get an internship at this bank before being in college?
Dec 22 2010 11:18PM
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Big_Meech
Posts: 152 - Karma: 33
My Threads... For when i'm about 5 years older and can comprehend any of this verbal diarrhea spewing from your mouth holes.
Dec 22 2010 11:28PM
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black_mamba
Posts: 566 - Karma: 12
threads.
Dec 22 2010 11:47PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
haha that's so on point... except the GF part because if you're smart, you can bang so many money-grubbing, hot whores.
Dec 22 2010 11:50PM
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0ptions
Posts: 2198 - Karma: 60
I love you guys shitting on something because it's demanding. Most firms know only allow you to be an IB for 2 years before moving you elsewhere. Doing it gives you the ability to further your career so much. But hey, it's a lot of hard work, so why would you ever do it? =/
Dec 23 2010 12:12AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
oh i'm not at all. i believe that careers such as doctors, lawyers, business consultants, etc. should be compensated a ton for all the hard work put in to even get the job, much less run with it. but i just think its not worth the years of possible risk, torment and insane amounts of work for the money.
Dec 23 2010 12:19AM
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dave44
Posts: 11052 - Karma: 113
lol, but when you take inflation into account you'll realize you haven't earned shit
Dec 23 2010 12:34AM
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alev
Posts: 7819 - Karma: 416
what you should really know is that you wont ski for the next ten years.
Dec 23 2010 12:39AM
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0ptions
Posts: 2198 - Karma: 60
No doubt, thats why they moved to two year contracts. But there are kids in here shitting on it. I agree with the killing yourself for your career though, but if I had the opportunity I would still do it. A friend of my brother works as an IB during the summer makes $43,000 in 4 months and works 110 hour weeks (15 hrs a day 7 days a week). It is insane, but I think I could do it for a little while.
Dec 23 2010 12:39AM
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lorida
Posts: 2833 - Karma: 46

You know that to make a decent living from investments you need a lot of cash, right?

Dec 23 2010 1:12AM
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futurespin
Posts: 2178 - Karma: 168
My cousin works in private equity in NYC. He graduated from the University of North Carolina in spring 2008. Got a job as an analyst at an ibanking firm in charlotte NC. They started him at $70,000 a year at 22 years old. He worked 7 days a week from 8am until midnight, no days off whatsoever... Except they did get to go to a few Carolina Panthers games because the owner of the firm had box seats. After 2 years was up he got a bonus check of $70,000. This was this past June (2010). He searched for a job in private equity/venture capital over the summer and paid a headhunter to place him in a firm. In september he got a position as an associate in a PE firm in new york getting payed $140,000 a year at 24. As an associate he actually gets weekends off and only has to work 8am until 8pm. He flys down to raleigh on weekends to party with friends and watch tarheel games. What's a $400 plane ticket when your weekly paycheck is like $2700 before taxes?

At a typical big IB such as goldman sachs, you usually need a MBA to break in as an associate. After associate you can become a managing director which offers a salary in the 220-280 thousand dollar range, plus a bigger bonus and less hours. And above that and the most glorious position is a partner. Partners at GS make $600,000 base salary and an average of $7 million bonus a year (don't believe me, look it up). It typically takes 10 years if you're lucky enough to make partner. However, Eric Mindich reached partner at age 27. Lets say you spend about a mil a year while working, that would give you just about $50 million when you're ready to retire at the ripe old age of 35!
Dec 23 2010 1:19AM
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