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February, 2025

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Mckain or Obama

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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
assuming they both win the primaries, who are you going to vote for.

i say obama
Feb 13 2008 10:08PM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 31
my liberal information? I understand that it is basically impossible to find an objective news source, to think that what is being presented to you is unfiltered and completely unbiased is both naive and ignorant, no matter what it is. Therefore I do my best to make a decision based on information I hear from many different sources, I try to listen to every argument and opinion openly and try to deconstruct what is being presented. I believe the more you can do this as an individual, the closer your viewpoint will be to actual reality rather than a produced reality.

I am going to take a stand here to make an argument that I think a post with information that has been copied and pasted from a think tank affiliated with a political motive is more likely to be misleading propaganda than say a formulated opinion from what someone has read/heard on
wikipedia, and multiple other (often with competing viewpoints) sources.
Feb 23 2008 12:33AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 31
and here we have a.....

..... perfect asshole comment, please go ahead and say that to all the women you know
Feb 23 2008 12:51AM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
no problem... most women are not emotionally stable for a job like the president's!! sexist? yes i believe that was...ZOMG!!! no matter what deep down everyone knows its true, and im not trying to diss on the ladies, and i dont view everything like that, but they are literaly built different...
Feb 23 2008 1:02AM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
oh yeah and wikipedia is not a reliable source at all....up until a little bit ago anyone and thier mom could change the info..
Feb 23 2008 1:05AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 31
deep down i don't believe this is true. do I think hillary should be president? in my opinion, no. i do believe that it is possible though that a women could be capable of being a great president and a great leader. who could this be, where is she? i don't know

it's a matter of opinion, so agree to disagree
Feb 23 2008 1:12AM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
fair enough i can respect that.
Feb 23 2008 1:16AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 31
I realize this, I believe though it is a better source of information than a think tank such as the heritage foundation, which is influenced by a political motive. i still read it and think it is interesting, I also look at what liberal think tanks write, you get opposing sides and can come up with questions. that is why I stressed the importance of multiple news sources. see my other post.
Feb 23 2008 1:19AM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
yeah i read your other posts...you read both sides of the story, but i dont see how you can agree w/ the liberal side of things... again another agree to disagree thing with this one im assuming..
Feb 23 2008 1:23AM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
i like how hillarys policy for drugs is much more lenient but theres alot of bad things that she's gonna do to healthcare. Also my moms met hillary and thinks that once she is in power she is gonna absolutely go crazy and change everything her way. And emotionally unstable i think its that when women get angry they lose every single bit of logic and reason. Its so funny because some times girls will get angry at someone else when they themselves are the ones to blame. Angry girls can't be reasoned with.
Feb 23 2008 1:37AM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
dude, her and oboma are gunna fuck everyone over on healthcare!! so here is my little thing on why i would hate eitehr one of them in office......

so when hillary or oboma gets into office they are gunna make it illegal, thats right ILLEGAL, to go see a doctor out of your own town...i know people are gunna be like, "who cares i dont need to go to a different place for a doctor" well some people do, including myself... i have a pacemaker and a bunch of other shit wrong with my heart and my town i live in now fuckin sucks for surgeries, like a lot of people who go in for a rutine surgery die becasue they dont come out of amnisia (sp?)....so when i want to go to MN for surgery im fucked cuz me and my doctor would go to jail if i went there for a surgery..........now you tell me thats not communism? and you tell me thats not FUCKED UP!
Feb 23 2008 1:48AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
im not looking for a fight, but where did you here the whole illegal thing from hilary(nurse ratchet) and obama?

keep in mind i agree that universal health care is a terrible idea..

Another example of social health care gone nuts, is in Europe where a man broke his ankle and is being refused care because he is a heavy smoker, and smoking makes the chance of recovery go down.... source http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1896536/posts

now imagine this scenario, you have been diagnosed with cancer and you have a slim chance to live. You are discussing your options with your doctor and he says this, "we are not going to fight the cancer because the chance is to high that you wont live anyway and it will cost the system to much money ". This is a very real possibility in the distant future because think about how much it costs to fight cancer, compared to fixing a simple ankle problem.

If you dont think i know what im talking about here is a story from my family, my great uncle was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was told by the first doctor he visited to "go home and settle any family problems you might have because there is almost no chance you will survive". my great uncle wasnt going to role over and play "dead" so with the first doctors words in mind he went and got a second view from a doctor at a special cancer clinic.. and he got the same diagnosis about the severity of the cancer, but these doctors agreed that some chance was better than no chance .. this story all took place three years ago, today he is alive and the cancer is still there, but he is ALIVE and the cancer is slowly going away.. this whole story would not have turned out the same in a country with social medicine where there is no competition between doctors.



Feb 23 2008 1:57AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
omit "competition" from the last line and add "CHOICE"
Feb 23 2008 2:11AM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
my bro got it from somewhere, he is ferrinski86 so he has been siting some sources and stuff..
Feb 23 2008 9:16AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
yeah i have seen some of his posts
Feb 23 2008 8:20PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
thats worse than saying you are voting for obama because he is black
Feb 23 2008 9:29PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
nah.... obama keeps changing his plan, he wants to socialize our healthcare through government insurance programs, hillary wants a system where you can't choose your doctors you go where the government tells you to go.
Feb 23 2008 9:30PM
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AOTEAROA
Posts: 2216 - Karma: 15
this is in all sincerety: I HOPE MCCAIN CATCHES AIDS AND DIES.
Feb 24 2008 12:57AM
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meggles
Posts: 3156 - Karma: 54
+++ Karma, you are SO cool!

Psyche.


Obama wants to raise taxes RIDICULOUSLY high.  Especially for the wealthier citizens here. So he's pretty much demotivating people as far as work goes. Who wants to be successful when you have to pay a shitload of taxes because of it? Taxes you wouldn't have to pay if you weren't as succesful? If anyone's read Atlas Shrugged before you'd know what I'm talking about.
Obama has little experience. He is most definitley a very likable person and an honest guy. I just disagree with many of his planks. I support McCain. 

Oh, and no, he would NOT reinstate the draft.
Feb 24 2008 10:11AM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
oh... thats soo fucked up..... how can that even be, i mean that has to contradict our constitution in some way..
Feb 24 2008 9:39PM
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AOTEAROA
Posts: 2216 - Karma: 15
WRONG.
Feb 24 2008 11:19PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
so are you going to backup this claim or is it wrong because you say it is?
Feb 24 2008 11:24PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
Alright. It's this selfishness about a lot of the wealthy American population that pisses me off. Why would it hurt to pay taxes when it barely makes a dent in what you actually make? Why would you make poor citizens who STRUGGLE every month to pay rent and pay for food and basic necessities, pay taxes when you could tax the wealthy and get 10 times more money out of them without any trouble? Why would you make people SUFFER every day to pay taxes when it won't even make a dent in the earnings of somebody who makes millions and millions of dollars.

This mentality is just selfish and it NEEDS to stop.
Feb 24 2008 11:31PM
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ferrinski86
Posts: 774 - Karma: 10
I too look at both sides of parties as well. I agree with you, the heritage foundation is politically bias, but what site is not? i get alot of my info from CNN, FOX (etc.), talk shows, my professors and so on. I formulate my option off of those as well.
I went to that link you posted somewhere for CNN money. there was another link at the bottom talking about the greatest economic boom ever. (not trying to pick a fight here just proving both sides)

heres the link
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/23/100134937/index.htm?postversion=2007071209

there are charts on the side all the way down the page. the first ones talk about the recent economic boom in this country, the second part of the charts talk about how in debt we are as a nation. so you can get both your figures off of one page.
but its a flip side to the coin,(and still, not starting a fight just trying to see your side as well, haha)
the economy is booming becasue ppl are getting into debt to purchase what they want (not need). so its kind of two evils.

and ppl say that we are in more debt then ever in history.
we duh, we have 300 million people in this country (that we know of)of course we spend more money because we have millions more people.

its americans faults for spending more than they make.

i got way off track but you get my point
Feb 24 2008 11:46PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
Percentiles Ranked by AGI


AGI (adjusted gross income) Threshold on Percentiles


Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1%


$364,657


39.38

Top 5%


$145,283


59.67

Top 10%


$103,912


70.30

Top 25%


$62,068


85.99

Top 50%


$30,881


96.93

Bottom 50%


Feb 24 2008 11:46PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ahhh that copy paste is impossible to understand, so i will try again..

Washington, DC, October 4, 2007 - New data released by the IRS today offers interesting insights into the distributional spread of the federal income tax burden, new analysis by the Tax Foundation shows.

Summary of Federal Individual Income Tax Data, 2005 (updated October 2007)




Number of Returns (thousands)


AGI

($ millions)


Income Taxes Paid

($ millions)


Group's Share of Total AGI


Group's Share of Income Taxes


Income Split Point

All Taxpayers


132,611,637


$7,507,958


$934,703


100.00%


100.00%


-

Top 1%


1,326,116


$1,591,711


$368,132


21.20%


39.38%


above $364,657

Top 5%


6,630,582


$2,683,934


$557,759


35.75%


59.67%


above $145,283

Top 10%


13,261,164


$3,487,010


$657,085


46.44%


70.30%


above $103,912

Top 25%


33,152,909


$5,069,455


$803,772


67.52%


85.99%


above $62,068

Top 50%


66,305,819


$6,544,824


$906,028


87.17%


96.93%


above $30,881

Bottom 50%


66,305,818


963,134


28,675


12.83%


3.07%


below $30,881

Source: IRS

Feb 24 2008 11:50PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i found a pie graph

Click for larger image
Feb 24 2008 11:51PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
You are right, there are some people and families that need a little help from the government in form of tax refunds, or entitlement programs. The solution to this is not increasing tax on the rich and the corporations but to cut gross government spending.


On a side, if you really want everyone to be taxed "fairly" with the rich paying the majority of taxes we need to eliminate the IRS and implement a national sales tax. This tax would have rebates for neccessity items such as food and clothes. People such as hookers, drug dealers, etc... would also not be able to dodge the income tax by not filing income. The tax code would go from a plethora of hard to understand information to simplicity. The rich would still be taxed the most, the poor would pay less and leaches of society would finally have to pay into the system.
Feb 24 2008 11:58PM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
i wish they had a candidate who had lower taxes and lax drug enforcement
Feb 25 2008 12:02AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
what about ron paul?

i dont like him, he is an economic genius, but i dont like the majority of his policy's
Feb 25 2008 12:04AM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
To add a little to your nifty data, my econ professor told our class that when you take the amount of taxes the bottom 50% of wage earners make and subtract the government entitlements from that they actually pay zero taxes.
Feb 25 2008 12:09AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153


maybe some of these "poor citizens" wouldn't be so short on food and rent if they didn't outspend themselves (that includes having lots of children).

maybe we should tax fat people higher because they consume more resources and it takes more tax dollars to support them.

maybe you should realize that tax brackets exist:
say you drop out of high school and get a kickass $8 an hour job for a year (1800 work hours).  that nets you a sweet $14,400 but the government takes 15%.......$2,160.  compare that to some superstar athlete who gets a half million per year but the government takes 35%......$175,000.  that athlete provides the government 80 times more money to waste than you at your minimum wage job.  what selfishness? 
Feb 25 2008 12:11AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
yep, to top it off, i used to know a family that was PROUD that they payed no taxes,and got free healthcare for their family of 6
Feb 25 2008 12:14AM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Thank you. One thing you forgot to mention is the person with the minimum wage job will probably be taking money in form of medicare, subsidized housing, etc... decreasing their tax revenue to zero or lower.
Feb 25 2008 12:16AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,540
You're the selfish one here buddy. Think about what you said in that post and think deep. It may hurt a little but it'll be worth it.

When you're done thinking about what you said(and about how much you hate me), reffer to the post above me again.
Feb 25 2008 12:18AM
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ferrinski86
Posts: 774 - Karma: 10
exactly. when you deuct the subsidizing and deductions, that 15%, minimum wage earner, actually gets a refund check from the government becasue their circumstances outweight what they paid in taxes. so they should not be complaining.
Feb 25 2008 12:31AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
......nor should they be voting.  the net dollar figure of tax money you contributed should be reflected in the voice you get. 

and politicians should be taxed at 90% so they get that everyday reminder of "i earned money and the government took it all away"
Feb 25 2008 12:37AM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
no way man, that would give so much voting power to investors and business people trying to push their agendas
Feb 25 2008 12:44AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 31
what a perfect segway to fascism
Feb 25 2008 12:50AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
yeah, thats obama's job.....

im so sick of the democrats class welfare,
Feb 25 2008 12:53AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
true.  giving more than one vote to someone would lead to incredible corruption.  but the beauty of it would be someone willingly paying taxes and not bitching.

however this already goes on.  they're called lobbyists.  and they do buy votes.  but the money they spend to buy those votes gets wasted on to the politician through fancy dinners, vacations, and monetary donations.  if the lobbyists simply took all that money wasted acquiring votes favorable to their cause.......and gave it directly to the government.......maybe the rest of us wouldn't have to be subjected to income tax.



cause honestly are those people supported by government handouts ever going to vote for a candidate that would cut these programs and force them into fiscal responsibility?
Feb 25 2008 12:54AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
wow its getting late, "welfare" should be *warfare*

i know the right does it to, but in the debates you dont hear it every other sentence out of mccains mouth..
Feb 25 2008 12:58AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
are you going to tell me that there is no "vote buying" of any sort by the current DC Beltway Lobbyists?

the money and the moves are already in play.  i'm just saying force that money to go to the government's piggybank instead of funding hookers and trips to the Bahamas to get that congressman to vote for your cause.
Feb 25 2008 1:12AM
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East526
Posts: 328 - Karma: 141
please do not vote for hillary!
Feb 25 2008 1:27AM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 31
Yes I'm aware, Washington is corrupt. Which is why Barrack gets my vote over Insane "Theres a lot more wars ahead of us" McCain
Feb 25 2008 1:52AM
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Yauch
Posts: 1685 - Karma: 62
spam!
Feb 25 2008 2:14AM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
It's not our fault that people don't understand the better path in life, but I don't think it's a bad thing for us to supply them some help when they decide they want to turn their lives around. A lot of people that have children when they don't want to have been raped and I don't think it's right to leave these people out in the cold.
Feb 25 2008 2:15AM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
and as the person you are quoting pointed out as well as other people, we are helping them, alot
Feb 25 2008 2:18AM
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AOTEAROA
Posts: 2216 - Karma: 15
i know you're wrong. tired of trying to explain myself on the internet. arrogant or ignorant,call it what you want, I know you're wrong.
Feb 25 2008 3:19AM
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D_Mezz
Posts: 1382 - Karma: 16
obama- wants to pull out
mccain- wants to finish the job

***real men dont pull out till they finish-------think about that guys. 
     
Feb 25 2008 7:46AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
cough cough *welfare* cough cough

it already exists...
Feb 25 2008 9:16AM
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