Where do you get your edges?

What you need to remember about getting thicker edges is you need base material to match.

I have been talking with CDW & Crown Plastics about getting custom 2.5mm thick edges & then matching 4001 base material.

And let me tell you, dealing with both those companies can be a pain.

I was close to getting an order from crown once, but they back out of making what I wanted because I was ONLY trying to get 200 meters of base material.

Yeah.  ridiculous.

CDW is a bit of a pain as well.

If people were interested, I would be willing to try and set up a group buy.  I am always looking to get better materials, but even if I am ordering enough for 50-100 skis, the companies tend to be less than willing to deal.

They usually deal with people buying 1000's of meters of base materials and tons of edges. 

What about talking to some of the smaller ski co.s? The might be able to hook you up, or sell you some surplus materials at cost or a slight profit for them. I'd send them an email.

When companies talk about having 2.5mm edges are they talking about the step though? Armadas are supposed to have those and Im pretty sure my edges arent 2.5mm high (I'll double check when I get home from school). Youre very likely right, but I sort of thought that the additional size was width and/or the lenght of teeth that extend into the ski; this would give them more contact within the laminate, and also spread out impact force a little more, so that when you hit rails repeatedly, they don't fall out. I could, and probably am wrong, but it seams strange that Crown would make their bases 1.3mm if so many of the companies they're supplying are having a different size custom made.

Ah.  You bring up an interesting thing to consider, because honestly, you really just don't know until you measure the skis themselves.

I have heard the same thing about armada.  I can tell you from personally using them the skibuilders edges are 2mm wide, 1.3mm thick.  And 1.3 isn't that thin.

A lot of companies out there talk about 2.5mm edges, 2.2mm edges, etc. etc.  And I think some are actually referring to thicker edges & matching base material.  pretty sure Line is on of the companies that does this, based upon the fact that they say they have double thick base material.

 But other companies may just be saying it to sound good when in fact the edges really are not that big.

It is a tough one for sure and really the best way to find out would be to measure a lot of skis.

Second, regarding what crown makes, what you need to remember is right now, the majority of skis being made are rental skis and normal consumer skis, not freeride or park skis.

And the larger companies are making these skis by the thousands.  I have heard numbers of upwards of 70,000 skis a year by rossignol alone.  And how many do you think are freeride skis?  Not a ton.  Even if they were producing 10,000 freeride skis a year, that leave 60,000 a year that are just going to rental shops or normal "skiers."  And for those normal skis, they use the thinner base because it is all they need. 

A company like Armada who makes, what, 2500 pairs a year?  Maybe.  They just do not compare with the demand from larger companies asking for 20 times that volume in base material.

So that is why the normal, stock thickness is 1.3mm.  From handling it, it seems like it would be ok.

If I could even get my hands on 2mm stuff I would be super stoked.

I was a bit confused talking with Crown because the guy even told me he didn't know anyone the requested 4001 base material over 2mm thickness, while several companies seem to suggest they do use it.  So I dunno.  Maybe they get it from someone else.

Hopefully that makes sense.

iggy and others; if you would want to set up a group buy for the thicker edges and matching 4001 grade sintered base, i'd more likely than not be down for purchasing material for up to 50 pairs or so.  if we could get a few others to join in, it might be a good deal.  maybe try checking to see if anyone at skibuilders is interested, too.  but yea, getting the quality base and edges would be great!
would the base material just be black?

I would be interested in a group buy for edges, either the larger ones or smaller. Do you know how much they are? I tried phoning them last week but the guy that deals with the ski industry was in Vegas. As far as smaller local companies, Prior is the only one that I know of that's close to me, and they weren't very willing to help out, but maybe it was just the guy I talked to.

well, I sent armada an email about their 2.5mm impact edge and here's what they had to say: Cameron,

Thanks for dropping us an email. 2.5mm means the edges are this deep on the sidewall edge and the same width on the base. It is the thickest edge on the market. A 2.5mm edge also has deeper teeth into the base than a smaller dimension edge. It should also be noted that our edges undergo a special heat treatment to keep them from becoming too brittle over the course of repeated rail impact and subsequently prolonging the life of the edge. This does not mean that your edge will withstand major impact damage with a surface other than snow. Should the edge catch metal, or any other surface besides snow, at the wrong angle the chances of edge damage are always increased. This holds true with any ski. If you have any further questions please let me know. Thanks again.

Tyson Hall

Armada Skis Inc.

I know people who have tried it before and still failed.

For reference, I would suspect that 50 skis worth of equipment would cost (just guestimating)....

maybe $1750?  Not sure.  Depends on if pricing increases significantly for custom stuff.

interesting.. i compared the edges on my first generation ar5s against some ski builders edge. the ski builders edge was thicker on both planes and the teeth stuck further into the ski than the armada edge. there was such a difference that when i tried to splice my broken edges with sb edges i ended up causing the base to delaminate.

i dont know how correct i am on this one but i believe they uses thinner edges on the first generation armadas, i think they were like 1.5 or somewheres around there.. someone correct me if i am wrong..

that would make sense since mine are first generation. maybe we will have to disect andy or bronson's ar5s to get a real real answer

you mean "bCHUBBS" or "ferrinski86"?? yeah lets rip the shit out of them...

bump for getting interest in the group buy..

I'd be super stoked on a group order of some bigger edges/bases. Did they give you any sort of estimates on what the price/minimum order might be? I think something like 2.0mm-2.2mm would be good (metal and plastic are heavier than wood and composite), I've personally only had edge problems from hitting rails really hard and dead on... I don't think a wider edge would have prevented the damage my skis experienced. either way, i'd like some stuff that's a little bigger than 1.3mm.

iggy guestimates at around $1750 for material to make about 50 pairs of skis if we do a group buy.

That is a totally estimate on my part as well.  That would be 200 edges, 100 meters base material...I can see it being less than that.  Even as low as $1000, but maybe as high as $2000.  It would also depend a great deal on their willingness to even do something for such an small order.  When I talked with them, it would closer to 500 pairs materials wise.

Depending on where ON3P sits and any available funding I may have, I would probably be interested in getting materials for at least 50 pairs, maybe upwards of several hundred if the cash is there.

I am super busy with school right now, and trying to finish a bunch of skis with my now broken hand, but in a few weeks during spring break I will try and give the edge guys and crown plastic a call and see what they could offer me/us in ways of materials.

For custom stuff, there is a lead time for sure, so I would not be shocked if it took several months to get materials.

Let me makes some calls and talk with a few people.  What I would love is to get 2.0-2.2mm thick base material and big, wide edges to match.  I thick that at that thickness, it wouldn't really make a difference durability wise to go thicker, but there is a definite weight issue that goes with it.

And I personally don't really give a shit about base graphics.  Functionality is the most important aspect to me.  Give me the strongest material possible, which is going to be the black 4001.