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Racers can't ski the mountain

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Rbamf
Posts: 792 - Karma: 15
I just read this article about Buck HIll in Minnesota. They have 600 vertical feet, yet they put out tons of pro racers. It makes me think that all racers know how to do is ski on perfectly set up courses or groomed runs. Think about the guys you see carving exactly the same size turn over and over and over down a regular run. oh well. go racer steeze!
Dec 22 2007 3:19PM
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zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350
So you're saying today it is just as common for kids to grow up racing rather than freeskiing as it was 15 years ago?
Dec 23 2007 4:51AM
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corbenketelsen
Posts: 254 - Karma: 10
word^ sorry didnt read this before i posted.
Dec 23 2007 4:52AM
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corbenketelsen
Posts: 254 - Karma: 10
i just said no to you. no as in i dont agree completely with what your saying. the coaching you get and feel from racing is impossible to replace. i think young the kids that are shreddin it in the park will kill it in comps but like big mountain skiing, the majority arent going to be able to hang cuz they dont have the fundamental basics down. and the not so basics as well. soooo i think the kids of the future are going to have to take a piece of racing and use it whether they join a team or just get a good fucken coach that can tell em what will help them charge.
Dec 23 2007 5:01AM
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JaySkier107
Posts: 288 - Karma: 29
thats a load of bull shit. I have raced since i was 10. Give you great fundamentals. i free ski now and progress faster than most of my friends because of it.
Dec 23 2007 6:38AM
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ShadyHillGroup
Posts: 2881 - Karma: 213
where does everyone get the idea that racing is going to make them break out in big mt. faster than a park rat...yes it gives you good fundementals on how to carve up a mellow groomer, but not steep variable terrain. I myself learned how to ski when i was little, did the whole ski school program, switch to snowboarding, then switched back to skiing 4 years ago and i can safely say im a strong, better skier then the majority of my schools racing team, For me whats made me good at skiing is experience, not just sticking to one form, getting out and hitting the whole mountain
Dec 23 2007 8:35AM
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killabees
Posts: 8558 - Karma: 494
elaborate...
Dec 23 2007 9:19AM
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tandan83
Posts: 2783 - Karma: 141
Yay Buck Hill.  I like Buck because it doesn't lie about itself.  It says Hill in the title.  There's so many other places in Minnesota that call themselves blank mountain.  Let's be real, except for Lutsen, there are no mountains in Minnesota.



On a side note....

This is from buck hill last year.
  Down box edited

180 mute
Dec 23 2007 10:25AM
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klay
Posts: 283 - Karma: 18
hahah, i lol'd.
Dec 23 2007 11:01AM
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pfutz
Posts: 174 - Karma: 10
You want to know why kids from Buck hill are better than kids from out west? We are not spoiled like the kids from out west are.

Most racers from minnesota have spent 99% of their lives skiing chop ice, and nothing but. We ski every weekend that we go out mostly in sub 0 weather. While kids from utah complain about 15 degree days, we wake up at 7am so we can spend one hour in the park before the landings turn into solid rock ice. Kids from out west only get excited when they get 10+ inches of fresh snow, we piss ourselves when we have 2 inches of actual snow to ski on.

Dec 23 2007 11:58AM
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corbenketelsen
Posts: 254 - Karma: 10
could be true im some cases. dont know if spoiled is the right word.
Dec 23 2007 1:30PM
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tSki
Posts: 956 - Karma: 171
most good racers can ski the rest of the mountain very well. it teaches you the basic fundamentals of skiing. Tons of sick big mountain skiers were racers before
Dec 23 2007 3:16PM
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macvid
Posts: 425 - Karma: 11

man racing give great technical skills it helps alot when you run into different snow conditions and obstacles when u in the steep and deep

Dec 23 2007 4:31PM
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liukangkid
Posts: 3323 - Karma: 82

yeah but theirs a different side besides saying they arent good a t skiing cus they practice on a small mountain.
if you hike a rail a buttload youll get good at it
if you ride a t-bar and lap a course youll get good at it.

in both sports you get better by repitition, the more repetition esencially the better you understand it and can do it

Dec 23 2007 4:43PM
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liquidsword
Posts: 566 - Karma: 10
i agree with this so much. SOME park rats SUCK at skiing
Dec 23 2007 5:25PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
How is this a bad thing? As long as people are having fun with skis on their feet it shouldn't matter.
Dec 23 2007 5:33PM
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van_ski
Posts: 466 - Karma: 39
moguls > gates
Dec 24 2007 3:47AM
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davar6
Posts: 555 - Karma: 24
i think skiing is skiing and no matter what your doing, as long as your making turns your improving. i just dont like to race its a personal preference
Dec 24 2007 9:09AM
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RRP-llc
Posts: 205 - Karma: 10
The other reason is ROPE TOWS.  Buck Hill has a high speed rope tow for the race hill.  In a two hour practice those kids get at least twice the slalom mileage as anyone out west (slalom course isn't a full run, 15 minute chair ride, etc...).  The good athletes can then transfer the slalom skills to the speed events (we can't really practice those here).

We also have a major metropolitan area to pull athletes from (MSP).  Resorts don't have that.  Any time you can pull athletes from a larger pool of talent, you get more stars.

Hyland (20 minutes from Buck) as has a good race program and the park has a rope tow.  Hyland puts out some good snowboarders and skiers.  Zach Marben came out of Hyland in the last few years and he has the current Snowboarder cover shot.  Yeah MN.

In short: ice/ruts, rope tows, population, "harsh" weather and some good coaching is doing the MSP good.



--rick
Dec 24 2007 10:24AM
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triebby
Posts: 8670 - Karma: 2,190
plenty of racers cannot ski outside the race course and plenty of park rats cannot ski outside the park. nuff said.
Dec 24 2007 11:03AM
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mothaeast
Posts: 2923 - Karma: 13
I hate racers because they always try and cut the lines and think they are hot shit and own the mountain in their skin suits. Theres too many kinds of skiing to say someone able to do one type is better than someone able to do another. You just cannot compare park skiing to racing to moguls because they are all different...
Dec 24 2007 11:12AM
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Rbamf
Posts: 792 - Karma: 15
i gotta give props to all the kids doin it at buck hill and nice pics tramdan.

i was cruising home after destroying the bowls yesterday and this racer steeze guy was doing these huge across the run racer style turns at me. I couldn't help but laugh a little.

time to ride

Dec 24 2007 11:30AM
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Valind
Posts: 4358 - Karma: 17
HAHA, this thread is funny.  I think it's the person more than anything.  Either you got it or you don't.  Yea, you can learn and train but you will only be so good if you don't have it.  Just like anything else.  You can hit baseballs for hours, that does not mean you will be the next baberuth or the next barry bonds. 
Dec 24 2007 12:28PM
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Robby.
Posts: 693 - Karma: 23
i raced before i did park big deal
Dec 25 2007 3:37PM
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skitoggrob
Posts: 1249 - Karma: 22
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHA, there may be 1 out of 50 racers that cant ski the mountain....
Dec 25 2007 9:14PM
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1080ski
Posts: 4424 - Karma: 191
man, you really gotta know what racing is before you try and bash it.

racing isnt just turning around gates (well, it is, but theres way more). i can say from experiance, that there are some hard fucking courses out there. in any given course, you may encounter:
-knolls (nolls? sp? the bumps you can nose butter off/catch a bit of air) that you gotta seriously suck up to stay even close to the ground
-ruts- these things are a bitch- they are basically just gigantic divits where most of the people ski through (right in the line where you should be - that is if th epeople you ski against are any good haha)
-turns (obviously)
-massive steeps- there fucking steep, and when your going fast its not as easy as you think to stay up while trying to not catch air off a knoll, which is probably there to make the course ahrder (meaning, it will launch you if you dont hit it right) with ruts...


my point is- whipping it down at 50 or so mph (which is a reasonable speed for some courses (gs/super g), if not slow) with knolls, ruts, hard/sharp ass turns, all on the steepest trail on the mountain, is NOT easy. trust me, i raced for a long time and i can say this is true. it definatly helps me ski all mountain, and the two out of the 3 best freeskiers at my mountain raced growing up (one actually still races at his high school...).

if you dont belive me, watch the jon olsson video blog of his first race- watch his skis- to make GS skis (which are fucking stiff, belive me) shake that much you gotta be going over some serious shit.

heres the link to the JO video blog thing i mentioned: http://www.jon-olsson.com/videoblog/


NOW, as to not be compleatly biased: kids who ski park definatly do have more controll on things like being in the air spinning and stuff off of park features. this may mean that they are better in CERTAIN aspects of the skiing all mtn (maybe dropping cliffs for example).


Also, growing up as a racer- me and my friends would DAILY chinese downhill (race down any trail basically fighting eachtoehr w/ poles and stuff- its good fun), cruise the park (with twins of course... well at least me hahaha) and ski all mtn.

and to all of the kids who think they can ski faster than most racers at their hill- well, you probably either took lessons as a kid and can ski pretty well, raced a shitty racer, didnt race anybody and are claiming that statement, or can beat them straightlining it down a hill (which i still doubt). Race them through any type of course- it is their domain and they will win, just like you will prolly be better then them in the park or whatever area of skiing you excel at.


basically- racers CAN ski all mountain better than the average park rat (in my opinion of course)
Dec 25 2007 10:38PM
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wolfmansbro
Posts: 2155 - Karma: 137
where did you people come from?
hell 5 years ago if i would even think of mentioning racing, kids would try and tear anything i said about it apart. Now ns members are actually promoting racing. Its cool to see that the maturity has actually come around here. props
Dec 25 2007 11:27PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
theres a pretty good generalisation right there.

im sure there's lots of park rats who can ski the rest of the mountain also. I'm in the park 95% of my time and i still believe i can ski the rest of the mountain. I've been skiing for 13 years and only 3 of those have been park, and im sure theres many others like me that are the same. I think alot of park rats become park rats, because there bored of the terrain they can ski already at there mountain.
Dec 25 2007 11:34PM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
i beg to differ...one of my friends who use to race can kill it all around the mountain, i personaly think that if i wouldve been into racing i would be a better all around skier cuz they teach you a shit ton of stuff.
Dec 25 2007 11:35PM
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GL830
Posts: 212 - Karma: 12
Racing is one of the best things you can do to improve your all-around skiing, and most racers slay the rest of the hill unlike the 'backseat bandit's who never leave the park and ski dragging their poles behind them
Dec 26 2007 12:02AM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
I think that racing was actually pretty hard and kind of fun, but I hated the training. Absolutely hated it. That's why freestyle is so much more fun, there's not much that limits you, except for your ability which can always get better.
Racing has helped my skiing so much, I really appreciate having done it now but while I was doing it I was kind of slacking off. I could have been much better and probably would have been able to ski some lines way faster and harder.
Dec 26 2007 12:20AM
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ISkiSwitch
Posts: 3157 - Karma: 22
Me too, I never raced for the hill team, but I did do a few things in school and always won. Carving and pushing into turns can natural to me. But I still agree that putting your kids in racing for a few years is a great basis for skiing. Coming out of that to freestyle will help with nearly everything you want to do.
Dec 26 2007 12:25PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13083 - Karma: 18,725
The best all around skier have to be mogul skiers, they constantly train on shitty jumps, and unequal terrains.


Dec 26 2007 1:13PM
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sconniestyle
Posts: 3945 - Karma: 26
as far as teaching young skiiers fundamentals of skiing, you can't beat racing programs in most areas.  racing has an broad infastructure in place that teaches kids the fundamentals of good skiing technique, that can be applied to any other discipline.  until the day when freeriding instruction is widely available to young skiiers, racing will be the place many good skiiers get their core instruction from.  i wish that i had been in a racing program when i was younger, so that i would have solid fundamentals that would make me a much better skiier than i am now. 
Dec 26 2007 1:59PM
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mtbachyskier
Posts: 6 - Karma: 10
i use to live in minnesota
Dec 26 2007 2:03PM
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
Bull shit. I've skied with "mogul" skiers and they aren't better than racers when it comes to big mountain lines, or trees, or just skiing in general.
Dec 26 2007 8:37PM
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jca
Posts: 4171 - Karma: 6,311

unless they raced

Dec 26 2007 11:14PM
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crazyfuck
Posts: 5968 - Karma: -7
hey, now... some of us have been encouraging others to race for a while now.  sure, it sucks balls to spend a day standing around the top of a course in a GS suit freezing your balls off, but the skillz you learn from racing, if applied to the right terrain, can make up for every shitty moment in the gates.  just suck it up and go race- it might kinda suck, but you'll be glad you did.
Dec 26 2007 11:31PM
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dinopudge
Posts: 199 - Karma: 10
ugh my computer is retarded. but anyways, racers don't just race. they'll train gates whenever the conditions allow, but when it's puking or it's not groomed or whatever then they'll freeski. like today i went up and the ski team was just freeskiing. to race well you have to be able to ski all different terrains and stay in control over really shitting conditions. racers definitely don't just ski "manicured" snow. when i was on the team our coaches pushed us, took us backcountry when we were like 10, skiied all mountain.
Dec 27 2007 2:54AM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
who the fuck cares?

do i care if somebody can "ski the mountain" better than me? No.

As long as I'm having fun, which is riding park, I am going to continue to do it.

And if somebody wants to talk shit and say they are "a better skier," go for it, I really don't care.
Dec 27 2007 10:50AM
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AntifreezeSteeze
Posts: 1643 - Karma: 53
Are you joking? I use to race and do park...I'm pretty sure I can ski the mountain
Dec 27 2007 11:33AM
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J-Flow
Posts: 675 - Karma: 10
^ you used to race.
Dec 27 2007 1:01PM
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comeatmebro
Posts: 10720 - Karma: 66
wow dude you basically took the words outta my mouth. now i have only been skiing 8 years, 2 of which i can say have been dedicated to park. i got lessons when i was younger and i am a really good all mountain skier. i have messed around on the race course trying to beat racers times, and it is really hard. although i can beat most (my mountain has a shitty race team) some are realllly good. last year i just got plain bored with the mountain, it was basically too easy so i turned to park like you. but i will say that racers definitely can ski the mountain, and better than most other people on it.
Dec 27 2007 1:19PM
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AntifreezeSteeze
Posts: 1643 - Karma: 53
Yeah that's how I started skiing...it helps with balance, control, speed, and agility
Dec 27 2007 5:14PM
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