Religious bigotry in america

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No Life

i expected better from you for heavens sake!

Dec 7 2007 11:34AM

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Quinny

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Dude! You of anyone should know that the merits of a religion should come from the lessons it teaches about morality rather than all the hocus pocus that they put into stories. I know you're a Christian but I can't imagine you're one of those people the belies The Bible is the literal verbatim translation of historical events.

Dec 7 2007 11:50AM

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The fact of the matter is that a mormon would make a horrible president, and that is not hating on the mormon religion, it is a fact. I personally think that a lot of their beliefs are laughable, but that is not the reason that I think that a mormon would be a bad president. The president is supposed to represent the country that they lead, and considering that mormons are such a small minority in this country, and that most other people in the country disagree with a lot of their beliefs, it is crazy to believe that they would be a proper representation of what the USA believes. Dont try to tell me that you dont think that his religion will shape his beliefs on gay marraige, possible decriminalization of weed, and the big one, taking away the ammended right of abortion. I am not hating on his religious beliefs, I disagree with them but I think that he has every right to have them, I just dont wan them in the White house.

Also, he doesnt stand a chance because he is a republican, and a republican wont be taking office.

Dec 7 2007 1:12PM

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HappyTreez

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Loner

would you vote for a jew? a muslim?
thats like saying you wouldnt vote for a jew because they are stereotyped as being greedy, or a muslim cuz most terrorism is Islamic extremism. Its a close-minded and stupid principle that you have and it is not beneficial to anyone.
respect other people's beliefs even if they are mormon, plus a mormon president would probably try to implement less religious structure in the government than an evangelist (i.e. president bush) because he doesnt have the religious backing in politics.
not that i would vote for romney anyway

Dec 7 2007 1:31PM

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Skavengers303

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Insane

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jrvp3JTKX8k

stop the hate and learn to apreaciate

Dec 7 2007 1:33PM

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almostaskier

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Crazy Fool

Whoa, i don't think anyone got my sarcastic tone there... Puns as a basis for the rejection of a religious doctrine? Come on people, I was kidding!

Dec 7 2007 1:41PM

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Quinny

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Tone of voice does not translate into text well for all but the most gifted writers.

Dec 7 2007 1:47PM

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almostaskier

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...

The idea is preposterous. You can't reject a religion because you can make easy puns about an angel's name. I figured that was clear enough.

Dec 7 2007 2:00PM

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Quinny

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I know you're smarter than making that assumption. Sorry about that. I guess I'm just drunk off all of the incredibly stupid and bigoted pieces of trash in these threads. I'll buy you a beer if you ever make it out to Colorado.

Dec 7 2007 2:04PM

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Insane

You sound like an idiot. How are you not hating on their religion? Just for your information, the mormons dont represent such a small group. They are the 3rd largest branch of christianity in the United States and have nearly 13,000,000 members. Its not some backyard cult that lots of people are making it out to be. And how is it a fact that every mormon would be a horrible president? And what of the major beliefs of the mormon church are so different that it would be such a shock to everyone once he was elected? I defy you to find one of the major beliefs of their church that is in such contradiction with the other major sects of christianity. You arent going to find many candidates on the right that support abortion, want to legalize pot, and support gay marriage. Hate on the republican party if you want, but absolutely nothing you said is in any way tied to the mormon church.

Dec 7 2007 2:53PM

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No Life

if any of you haters (or non haters) consider yourself open minded at all, then you owe it to yourself to read the following piece:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119698509824016464.html?mod=loomia&loomia_si=t0:a16:g2:r5:c0.125931

Dec 7 2007 6:37PM

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dman1260

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Mormons may have some wierd beliefs, but as others have mentioned if you really think about it, they are no more ridiculous than most other religions view points. The bottom line is that the Mormon religion preaches many great doctrines, which if followed correctly will create a very good person (and I would say more Mormons follow their religion more correctly than most). Now I don't know Mitt Romney, so I couldn't say if he is a good person, but the fact that he is a Mormon doesn't make him very different than any other religious person running for office. If you aren't going to vote for him cause he is a Mormon, you probably shouldn't vote for anyone who is Christian because they are most likely going to hold the same beliefs on abortion, stem cell research, and the traditional topics that may be affected by one's religion.

Bottom line, don't chose who to vote for because of that persons religion, chose to vote for someone based on their political principles. If these principles are affected by their religious belief that's fine, but at least you will have made an educated decision based on their politics and you won't have made a poor decision based on generalizations about religion.

Dec 7 2007 7:03PM

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Insane

first of all, romney's already proved he's not much of a mormon. you don't get elected governor of mass running on a mormon platform. he's pretty much changed his position on every issue just in time to gain from it politically

second, it's ridiculous how big a deal people on this website make out of legalizing marajuana. really, citing that as a top political conern of yours makes you sound like a huge pothead. i wouldn't have any problem with legalization but there are things SO much more important

third, there is no "right to have an abortion," don't know what bill of rights you're reading

and lastly, there are so many other reasons to not vote for romney other than his religion, which i think was the point of the threadmaker

Dec 7 2007 7:37PM

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Insane

actually, mormon beliefs are quite a bit more ridiculous than those of almost any other religion i'm familliar with, scientology excluded.

Dec 7 2007 7:52PM

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dman1260

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can you enlighten me on these beliefs? I mean, they may have come to an existence based on some weird things, but the things that they practice in everyday observance of their religion are not that extreme (and polygamy doesn't count cause believe it or not, they don't actually do that any more).

I'm just curious cause everyone says they are so weird, but they never ever site any sources or any actual weird practices. I think its just a stereotype that people won't let go of.

Dec 7 2007 9:26PM

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Carter23

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jesus is ruining america as we speak. so will mitt romney.

Dec 7 2007 9:38PM

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Insane

I agree with dman. What exactly are these "ridiculous beliefs" that you are talking about. Back them up with some official (not some book written by a mormon) current proof and then we can talk, but until then, I am convinced that it is just a horrible stereotype that people cant get over.

Dec 8 2007 1:47AM

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Insane

word. This is EXACTLY what I am trying to say. read the article.

Dec 8 2007 1:48AM

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No Life

heres another along the same lines. also from the journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119706422040017530.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Dec 8 2007 11:35AM

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hotdog.garbage

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Insane

fuck, i really dont want to get into this. but. you cant elect someone whose views represent such a small proportion of the population if they are going to make faith-based desicions. its that simple. it doesnt matter what religion they are a part of, if they are making faith-based decisions that represent small groups you are going to have problems

Dec 8 2007 12:26PM

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TRIppEN

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ok lets think about this, first off, i dont know all that much about mormonism, but anyone who honestly believes that all mormons believe those crazy radical things (if they are even a part of the religion) are pretty ignorant of the world around them. do the majority of catholics honestly believe that adam and eve were created the horrors in the world by eating an apple? most dont even believe deep down that jesus came back to life after being dead. i dont even believe in god but i can still identify myself with catholic groups, like community service stuff. You find what you want/need in your religious affiliation. So the truth in the fact is that Romney will impose these crazy radical oppinions as president, (for starters he would easily be impeached for doing anything that would be what you bigots of NS believe mormons are all about) Look at the man for who he is, actually look into what he stands for, dont put a label on him. YOu are just as bad as slave owners who thought because someone was black they were genetically predisposed to being infirior in all aspects. The man is fine morally (in my definition of moral), look at his family, does the man have the 20 wives everyone thinks mormons have? NO- reading some of your posts shows that are country is making little progress in acceptance of others. YOu cover up your bigotry by saying that he will impose his religious views on America, even though you can find out everything he believes in politically.

This is all coming from someone who doesnt even support Mitt.

Dec 8 2007 1:30PM

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TRIppEN

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i didnt read that over, but im sure you can figure out the typos and sentences that dont really make sense

Dec 8 2007 1:31PM

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Insane

Did you mean that he WONT impose these crazy radical views? You kinda contradicted yourself. I might add there isnt one person who has been able to give a radical view of a mormon with proof that their church approves of it.

Dec 8 2007 6:23PM

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.scott.

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that one and the one before are good articles. i like the end of this one: "we've bowed too far to the idiots."

Dec 8 2007 6:59PM

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Insane

Ok, so ridiculous LDS beliefs...one, the belief that an Israelite named Lehi came to North America in 600 BC, also, of course, the idea that Jesus came to America. then there's the teaching that all Native Americans are descended from Israelites, which the church just recently revised by changing the Book of Mormon because the scientific evidence was so overwhelmingly against the account. the stories of Lamanites, Nephites, etc that never existed. these are all pretty ridiculous.

I live in Salt Lake and know plenty of Mormons, my perception of the religion isn't based on pop-culture stereotypes (though I do enjoy that South Park episode, which was actually somewhat accurate)

Dec 8 2007 7:23PM

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doublexl

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Crazy Fool

yes! he is not suffering from religious bigotry, people just dont want a mormon as president. the religion is based off of rocks in a hat that told a man to marry as many 14 year old girls as he could. mormonism is a very radical religion and i definatley want to keep them out of office.

Dec 8 2007 7:28PM

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BAHAHAHAHAHA you fail soooooooo hard

read the goddamn ammendments, its there, ever heard of Roe V. Wade?

You are no longer allowed to speak poitically until you take a history class or two, And I sound like a dumb pothead?

Dec 10 2007 12:45AM

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AltaPilgrim4973

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Loner

ok, listen to this man. here you all are beating the shit out of his religion, and has he so much as lost composure? i dont agree with mormanism any more then i do any other religion. all religion causes is war and death. but if thats what people need to giude themin their lives, why not. i was having pretty much this same conversation thhe other day. thought they might be kinda annoying with their missionary work, you still have to give them props for going out and supposrtinv what they believe in, knowing full well that most people will just say, "sorry, not interested" seriously people. goo find something worth while to argue about. and to those of you who are being reasonable, and making good points. do yourself a favor and have a nice intellegent conversation with someone. the bigots here are a lost cause

Dec 10 2007 3:10AM

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Mr_Bojangles

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I like this one, however the same argument could be used against lawyers who became politicians, or politicians themselves representing the interests of so few. When you think about it, it is impossible to have a president in office who represents the interests/values of every citizen, however such is life in a democratic society. I'm all for plurality of values, for the record.

Dec 10 2007 3:12AM

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Insane

Roe v. Wade was a Supreme Court decision.Â Do you understand the difference between court rulings and what's written in the constitution?Â Obviously not, so let me point it out to you - THEY'RE DIFFERENT.Â Overturning a court decision such as Roe v. Wade would require a constitutional amendment, but the decision itself is nowhere in the constitution, let alone the first ten amendments referred to as the Bill of Rights, reproduced for you below, since you apparently aren't familliar with them.Â And yes, you DO sound like a dumb pothead.

First Amendment – Establishment clause, freedom of religion, speech, and press, and peaceable assembly as well as the right to petition the government.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Second Amendment – Right to keep and bear arms.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fifth Amendment – Due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, private property.

No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and other rights of the accused.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of states and people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Dec 10 2007 11:19AM

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No Life

you either quoted the wrong guy, or didnt read the article that he referenced.

Dec 10 2007 11:46AM

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I never said bill of rights, I said Amendment, if you read my first post. Roe V. Wade Proved to the Supreme Court that it was unconstitutional, under the 14th amendment, for the federal government or states to forbid abortion. Just stop trying to argue.

Dec 10 2007 12:30PM

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forfun

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Religion should certainly be a factor in voting. you dont want to vote for a guy (Romney) who worships some other random guy (Joe Blow shmuckatelli, John smith) from Missouri who says that all women must have sex with him if they want to go to heaven. all im gonna say is fuck mormons and fuck mitt romney, your relgion is bogus and bullshit and you dont deserve to run for president if you are stupid enough to believe old Joe Blow Shmuckatelli

Dec 10 2007 12:34PM

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BobYohan

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boo religion yay beer

Dec 10 2007 3:11PM

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Insane

There was not one correct statement in your post. Dammit people. First of all, their prophet is JOSEPH Smith. Second, he wasn't from Missouri, he was from New York, and he never said that all women must have sex with him to go to heaven. i did.

Dec 10 2007 4:47PM

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Casey

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I don't think mitt romney's religion makes him a bad candidate. I know some mormons, they're a little different, but they're nice, and seem harmless and normal enough. But Mitt Romney's stances on terrorism, expanding Guantanamo bay, pre-emptive war, nuclear strikes on pakistan to "secure" their nuclear weapons (WTF?!) I mean, this guy would be a good president if the rest of the world did not exist. His foreign policy positions are a complete nightmare. I'm not saying vote democrat or anything, im just saying dont' vote for mitt romney!!!

Dec 10 2007 4:59PM

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dman1260

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How are these beliefs going to affect any political decisions he would make?

Whether or not Jesus came to America isn't going to change his opinions on abortion, gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, or foreign policy. The beliefs that will affect him a mostly the more prominent beliefs the Mormons hold, which are very similar to any other mainstream Christian religion. After all, Mormons do follow the teachings of the New Testament just like all Christians.

Dec 10 2007 6:18PM

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Insane

obviously any Court decision is based on interpretation of the constitution (and/or precedent). there's still a difference between the court's decision and what's actually WRITTEN in the consitution. i.e., the 14th amendment doesn't say anything about abortion but interpretation of the due process clause led to the court's decision. whatever, i'm over this, it has nothing to do with this thread.

Dec 11 2007 12:00AM

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Insane

i never said they would affect political decisions he would make, i don't think they would. but people asked "what ridiculous beliefs do mormons have?" so i answered.

there are plenty of reasons to think romney would be a bad president other than that he believes a version of history that is bizarre and completely without evidence.

Dec 11 2007 12:41AM

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Wait, hold on, you think him being a mormon would make him a worse president? Why the hell were we bitching at eachother then?

Bottom line for this thread, wheather or not you believe Romney would make a good president, he would make a terrible candidate because he would never win the election as a mormon, and you dont want to choose a vandidate for your party who will quite obviously loose.

Dec 11 2007 12:57AM

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49566738265

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Newb

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm...Racism IS bigotry actually...that's why its "just as bad"

Dec 11 2007 1:14AM

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magic_steve

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Ridiculous

religion is a set of beliefs, and most people will act on their beleifs, and what the president does, is pretty damn important (most of the time). so religion of the president is important.

Dec 11 2007 1:19AM

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molsongolden

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Insane

he is a wackjob, and the only way to try and separate church and state is to vote for someone who isnt a goddamn religious fanatic. organized religion is a fucked up manipulative thing of the past that divides people and controls peoples lives. if i could get rid of one thing in the world organized religion would probably be that one thing

Dec 11 2007 2:11AM

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Nihiriju

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that cartoon is awesome.

Dec 11 2007 2:54AM

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pfutz

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Pro

Mormonism is no more dogmatic and stupid than any other faith on earth.

The only reason people make fun of mormons more than other sects of christianity is because it is young enough for there to be a record of its blatantly false foundations. But don't let that make you think its any more bullshit than any other religion.

They are all a big joke.

Dec 11 2007 3:03AM

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hotdog.garbage

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Insane

Youre right. then i guess its not as much about what religion you represent but rather your ability to understand and communicate with people who are different from you. not tolerance of other religions but an understanding and an ability to work with.

Dec 11 2007 10:08AM

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pmills

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Crazy Fool

I’ve read through this thread and noticed that a majority of posts talk about Mormonism and religious freedom on the whole, yet few have actually looked at what was said in Mr. Romney’s speech.

in 1960 jfk delivered a speech about how his religion would not influence presidential decisions, that also stated his belief in an America "where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice" (link to full transcript: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600 )

I bring this speech up as a stark contrast to what Mr. Romney actually said in his speech.

While Romney said that no church will influence his presidency, he holds religion on the whole, namely monotheistic religion "makes us American"

I find this very offensive!

What I hear Romney saying is that if you don't go to church you're not a good American. If you believe in more than one god, if you're unsure about god's existence, if you don't believe in god at all -- apparently you're a bad American.

"Freedom requires religion”?!

another part of Romney's speech talks about those of us who want to have a complete separation of church and state -- he even goes out on a limb to say that we (^) are bringing a "religion of secularism" and that this is wrong

can anyone spot the hypocrisy?

Secularism is a new "religion" which he says that it is wrong during a speech about religious tolerance

if you thought that was a good speach, change a few of the variables around in your head, what if Romney was talking about some other religion asides from christianity -- something radically different from your own beliefes-- saying that you were wrong and unamerican if you were a christian.

to me his speach really wasn't that great at all.

Dec 11 2007 11:12AM

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