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Will snow ever come?

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Tbrody
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 685
Here's an excerpt from a NWS report this morning:

"The two features will continue south today...with the surface
front exiting the state this afternoon and the baroclinic zone
making it to the Utah/Arizona border overnight. This will result
in some of the coldest temperatures so far this year across the
state. Mins below freezing are expected everywhere but far
southern Utah. In addition...the associated upper level storm
system should graze northern Utah late this afternoon and this
evening...making the airmass unstable enough to support some snow
showers...primarily in the higher terrain...as the southern half
of the state remains dry.

Temperatures will be slow to rebound this week with dry
northwesterly flow aloft. A Pacific storm system is expected to
dig south on Thursday...bringing a weak shortwave over the
southern half of the state Thursday night...but it does not seem
to have much moisture to work with until it moves east of the
state. The main system is forecast to move through Arizona on
Saturday...bringing another weak shortwave into Utah during that
time that runs into the same moisture problems as the other one. "

Summary: snow forecast is dismal because of lack of moisture
Nov 20 2007 2:55PM
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jKutcher
Posts: 3936 - Karma: 4,260
pray for lake effect
Nov 20 2007 3:30PM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
i pray for snow like its my job
Nov 20 2007 3:56PM
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Tbrody
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 685
I'm on newschoolers at my job
Nov 20 2007 4:05PM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107

it always does. but driving up the canyon everyday and running snowmobiles all over the place doesn't help, GHG my friend, pretty sad. do we like snowmobiles more or actual snow?

Nov 20 2007 11:03PM
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eljefe
Posts: 915 - Karma: 467
Im ridin sleds til it doesn't snow anymore...then I quit skiing and start fuckiing for sport...
Nov 21 2007 12:30AM
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eljefe
Posts: 915 - Karma: 467
Think about this figure though, there are say 1.2 million people on the wasatch front.  Say that makes 600,000 motor vehicles.  Thats alot of cars, and that may be a low estimate.  Kennicott mine and the industry in SLC is responsible for up to 60% of all airborne testable emissions.  Pair that number with the fact that there are less than 60,000 registered snowmobiles in the entire continent.  They aren't even the beginning of our worries.  China, Indo,and others have airborne emissions so bad they can be felt cross-continentally, in places like LA.  
Sites such as myfootprint.org will show you that eating meat and importing food make a phenomenally larger size impact on emissions than any amount of fossil fuel comsumption.  
Take this into consideration as well.  A cross continental flight requires about 40,000 lbs of jet fuel.  Thats approximately 9,000 gallons. 
When Ski Doo decided to remove 60lbs of dry weight off of their sleds for 2008, they didn't look any one place for that weight.  They shaved as little as ounces off every place they could.  That is kinda what needs to happen for global emission output change.  
Nov 21 2007 12:39AM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107
just becuase a sled doesn't contribute to GHG as much doesn't mean its not a concern, and we shouldn't be worried.

even one person can make a difference, thats the attitude all people need to get past, including skiers and boarders. every 27th or so sled trip produces more then a ton of GHG. shouldn't skiers and boarders be the most worried about less snow? can u imagine having winter 4 months shorter in less then 10 years?

I agree with you but I think more radical changes need to be made in order to save our snow pack. I want everybody to be able to enjoy winter and snow, not just the current generation. we need solar sleds, or sleds that run on salt water and don't produce much emissions or something, but that has yet to be fully developed. I only refered to sleds becuase this is a skiing website, this applies to all motorsports including jetskis, motorcycles, quads etc.
Nov 21 2007 3:35AM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
^^ maybe I should check out that site, but I dont see how eating meat could be related to it not snowing. Obviously everything is related in some extremely obscure and not very relevant way, but that's about it. Biologically it's more efficient to eat plants to conserve energy, but I don't see that being the cause of this lack of snow considering that people have eaten meat since the beginning of time. And Obviously importing food has an impact on emissions, because of the fossil fuels used to transport it...

I feel like websites and people like that just twist information around to justify their paranoia.
Nov 21 2007 11:53AM
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Tbrody
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 685
global warming is not causing the lack of snow

do your research
Nov 21 2007 2:22PM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107
I think you need to do some research. hell, read some skiing and snowboarding magazines. better yet go to the library.

what do you think global warming is? gases are building up in our atmosphere, catching and reflecting more sunlight and heating up the planet. Fossi fuels are the biggest cause of global warming. last time I checked we need it to be cold to snow, and even make snow. thats why low elevation ski resorts are worried, and no investors will back any plan for low elevation resorts becuase its going to rain, not snow. we still might get just as much moisture and precip, maybe even more (there are people that argue both), but it won't be cold enough at lower elevations to make it white and fluffy. its science.

global warming is shortening our winters. we need an alternative to petroleum to fight global warming. aka engines that run on water/corn, who knows, go to college and figure it out for us all.
Nov 21 2007 3:29PM
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RuffRydrz
Posts: 305 - Karma: 197
I'm giving up on snow...its never coming, and winter as we know it is over.
Nov 21 2007 3:45PM
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eljefe
Posts: 915 - Karma: 467
   Its not an absolute direct correlation between eating a burger and global warming.  The reason that eating meat now is related to global footprint is because of the way the industry works.  Looking at raw numbers,(unfortunately I don't remember them exactly so I don't want to misquote information), to take an acre of land, and to raise beef on it vs. farming it to harvest produce.  The output of produce on that same piece of land is about 300 fold what the return on meat is.  The best way for the environment to eat meat (switchindirty knows this best) is to go hunt your own.  One Elk a season will yield enough meat to feed you all winter long and then some.  This is why people who have eaten meat since the beginnning of time have NOT had the same impact.  Another interesting number is that most foods (produce and meat) have travelled approximately 1500 miles before it enters your mouth.   Supporting locally grown produce is a great way to cut down on emissions.
   Personally I think the next presidential term will be a good thing to make some change.  For instance, in the motorsports world, ethanol is a great alternative to crude oil.  The Indy 500 was won by an all ethanol running racecar this year.  My snowmobile is programmed from the factory to run 100% ethanol.  The problem is that its not readily available yet.  Same with Bio-diesel.  But, the political structure is yet to be one to support anything but crude oil. 
  A couple of neat things to consider are this as well.  Recycle, run energy saving flourescents everywhere you can (can't on dimmer switches unfortunately). Support wind energy campaigns such as Rocky Mountain Powers Blue Sky Energy.  I pay 13.95 per month extra on my power bill to buy wind energy for my home.  Change the Spark Plugs in your car.  Switch to SYNTHETIC oil.  It costs more up front, but it lasts 4 times as long as conventional motor oil and will save you money in the long run.  Aside from the performance benefits for your vehicle it will help aleviate our dependency on foreign Oil.  Check out Amsoil.com for more on this.  There is a chevy duramax in park city that has gone 50,000 miles without an oil change.  I could go on and on, but the main point is what switchin dirty says, be the change you want to see in the world. or was that ghandi.  
Nov 21 2007 3:55PM
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shoenice22
Posts: 646 - Karma: 11
So is this why it snowed in SLC in mid October?
 The snow will come. By the way, if its so warm from global warming  why was it 10 degrees this morning when i woke up at 10:30 in PC and hasnt been above freezing all day today and yesterday?
Nov 21 2007 4:06PM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107
were not just talking about utah. GLOBALLY temperatures are on the rise. thats why the ice caps are melting. the current temperature means nothing, its all about over time, not a single day. your correlation between the storms and a daily temperature has nothing to do with global warming. again, if you did some research you would know that an artic tribe, who has iced fish for years and lived in the same spot for hundreds of years. they can no longer live there and fish, they have moved more inland becuase the ice has melted. hence global warming-and its only going to get warmer if we don't make changes.

its proven that the temperatures over the past 10 years have been on the rise. and its only getting worse. you might want to do some research, considering the base elevation of PC is pretty low and you might be seeing considerable changes in the next 10 years. as in there will be absolutley no snow in january becuase its not cold enough, but you can go splash in the puddles instead.

some scientists predict drastic changes, and others disagree, but they will all tell you the temperature of the globe is increasing overall more and more every year. the ocean level will rise, maybe even increasing the amount of storms we get, and the amount of moisture that is in the air, but if the atmosphere is not cold enough, aka below 32 degrees, it will not snow, even at park city.

Nov 21 2007 5:16PM
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shoenice22
Posts: 646 - Karma: 11
    Yeah so the ice caps are melting. I mean we are coming out of an ice age and all. Greenland had no snow at all in the 1400s. now there is snow there. It might be melting but at one point there was no ice or snow anywhere at all in the world. Then the ice age comes and it starts all over again.
    Also, if you are getting any info from Al Gore's movie, about 10 of his theories that he claims are facts have been disproven. If you remember, there weren't but about 12-15 facts in the whole movie. I realized that you said some scientists predict that we will see huge changes in the next 10 years. However, more scientists from all over the world believe that we aren't having a big impact at all on the warming of the earth and that we won't see a big change at all.
Nov 21 2007 5:41PM
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willywally
Posts: 145 - Karma: 10
there is going to be cold enough temperatures to make snow for now
Nov 21 2007 5:51PM
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Tbrody
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 685
we are talking about Utah right now. I'll say it again, global warming is not causing us to have a lack of snow currently,

Global Warming (if it is happening) will not change our storm systems over night, proponents of Global Warming say over decades we will see less snow. Not between October and November.

If I am wrong please provide me with evidence that Global Warming has caused our storms to be pushed to Whistler.

If I am right, stop bringing this up.
Nov 21 2007 6:15PM
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fuckyocouch
Posts: 965 - Karma: 501
FUCK
Nov 21 2007 6:53PM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107
I never said global warming was causing the lack of snow right this instance. but it is going to in the long run if it already hasn't. 

its just not a normal year. I said it always does come, as in the snow will fall, just when and how much is the question. I'm just saying it is affecting us whether or not you can see it right now.

but I think its kind of strange alta is not open for thanksgiving considering it has only happened 3 times before this in thier entire existence. and utah has had the hottest summers on record for the past few years. and november has been very warm. I wouldn't be surpised if this pattern got worse.

so either way we can just sit here and pretend it isn't happening or we can make a change for the future. I can't make the decision for you, nor can I change all tourist and local behavior, but atleast I can make you think about it, and thats better then nothing.
Nov 21 2007 7:47PM
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eljefe
Posts: 915 - Karma: 467
To add to this, the mean temperature has been the hottest on record ever.  And regardless of the Global Warming campaign.  It is absolutely proven that our C02 levels are at an all time high.  Whats going to happen if you don't do anything?  Probably nothing.  But I personally feel the obligation to make up for my rediculous carbon footprint in as many other ways possible.  You decide for yourself.  
Nov 21 2007 9:10PM
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Tex.
Posts: 1106 - Karma: 124
i agree with Tbrody, just because global warming may or may not be having an effect on the weather in general doesn't mean its causing us to not get snow.. this kind of stuff just happens, its nature.
like right now we have the jet stream but there just so happens to be no precipitation in the forcast.  the snow will eventually come, it always does. and who knows what december and january have in store for us? we might recieve 300% of our average snowfall. (i actually think that farmers almanac predicted 200% more then average snowfall from mid december thru late january)
nonetheless, there's really no reason to be getting all worked up.  I'm sick of hearing my friends bitch about shitty conditions and blah blah blah whenever there's nothing that can be done.  I love skiing just as much as anyone, its a huge part of my life but we just have to be patient and wait for it to come.  i think us (utahns) are just used to being "spoiled" with amazing snowfall seasons compared to most places. 
Nov 22 2007 1:58AM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
I am in a class at the University of Utah called climate chage. All I have learned so far is that Al Gore's movie was only made to make money... Water Vapor is actually the the prevalent greenhouse gas, and that all the stuff scientists have told us about global warming may or may not be true, but further tests are needed, which means you can take global warming with a grain of salt.
Nov 22 2007 3:25AM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107
when it comes to global warming and saving the environment, I'm not going to take it with a grain of salt when changes have already occured. were talking about saving skiing.
Nov 23 2007 5:12PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
seriously though, my teacher for that class says "take it with a grain of salt" atleast a 5 times a class period.
Nov 25 2007 12:48AM
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eljefe
Posts: 915 - Karma: 467
I would hardly make a decision on a topic such as this based solely on what one university of utah professor says.  The best professor I have had at the U left me with one bit of advice.  "when you believe everything you hear, you are powerless, but when you question everything, examine it, and come to your own conclusion, then you can become empowered."
Nov 25 2007 1:52PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
I think the earth is warming but I don't think it is all human induced.  I don't think ice cores really do give us the exat amount of co2 in the atmosphere at the time that the air was trapped in the ice, because it can dissipate through thin ice.  We can see that CO2 in the atomoshpere and the temperature of the atmosphere are directly related, but it is impossible to say which is effected by which.  If CO2 does reaise temperature, it has always done so.  If the ice core samples are correct, and we do have more CO2 in the atmosphere the temperature of the earth has not increased dramatically as the charts show CO2 has increased dramatically, meaning that temperature and CO2 are not as directly related as some have previously believed.  It is all a big sham
Nov 25 2007 2:16PM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107
yes thankyou for your advice. maybe I should listen to everything your professor says? or I could I take some classes on my own, which I have, and do my own research, which I have. or I could believe everything people say(hell even those guys in tacky suits who keep knocking on my door)...or not. you could refer to this quote for my advice(or eljefe, thanks for the contribution), "If you're over 10, and watch CNN and believe everything, you're in 2 deep" - damian marley


Nov 25 2007 2:19PM
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kristie
Posts: 1667 - Karma: 214
except it's cold as hell right now, there's just no precip
Nov 25 2007 3:04PM
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R.Fahey
Posts: 8602 - Karma: 539
weather patterns.  It's obviously freezing cold out.... next year could be a low of 20 the whole year with 900 inches.  It's all stupid patterns. 
Nov 25 2007 4:45PM
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Alex_thedroog
Posts: 3433 - Karma: 2
I would dig 900 inches.
Nov 25 2007 6:39PM
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BrodyLeven
Posts: 7016 - Karma: 187
yeah, and we're already talking about next year....
god damnit, we were doing that LAST year.
Nov 25 2007 8:21PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
actually my teacher believes in global warming. I just personally don't feel that the research is complete and it is still inconclusive, scientists 15 years ago were telling everyone that they had conclusive evidence that the Earth was going into another ice age, so... lets believe everything the scientific community has to offer...
Nov 25 2007 9:08PM
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liquidsword
Posts: 566 - Karma: 10
im gonna go crazy
Nov 25 2007 9:08PM
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Switchin_Dirty
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 107
I don't believe everything the scientific community has to offer, how could anyone? but I do believe what my own eyes see and what I feel. first off the resort I first skied at, in flagstaff arizona, used to get a shitload of snow when I lived there, 22 years ago, 3 feet at my house sometimes, more at the resort. now they hardly ever open, sometimes only for a month. my aunt still lives there, my cousins have missed out on alot of snow. and at the resort I grew up in idaho, bogus basin, they have seen a drop in snowfall compared to the last decade. my parents house in the valley doesn't get nearly as much snow as it used to. second the summer temperatures in both idaho and utah have increased in the last several years, hottest ever. its only getting hotter, and soon it will be hotter for long, shortening our winters in the end. changes have occured and you will see more changes in the next 20 years, if not sooner.  
Nov 25 2007 10:28PM
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tha_king
Posts: 136 - Karma: 11
all the snow is falling in northern rockies because all of you have been baaad mormons.  joseph smith and god are quite angry with you, you know how god gets.

all of you need to repent your sins, have a revelation with god, go on your missions, get married, and go to fucking temple for christ's sake.  oh yeah and have atleast two kids to help out on the farm, even though you live in a city.

then the snow will fall.


Nov 26 2007 11:24AM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
So now all of global warming has to go off of what you have personally seen. What about the winter of 1976 when Squaw valley didn't even open? What about that same winter when some resorts didn't open until March in Utah and had to close that same month.  What about villages built in Europe 1500 years ago that are now buried under ice. What about entire cities built during the roman empire which have also suffered the same destruction? How about we base all of global warming just because arizona hasn't gotten as much snow in the last 22 years? Did you ever consider it to be weather patterns?
Nov 26 2007 11:39AM
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HermioneGranger
Posts: 1933 - Karma: 101
Theres no moisture in there air right now DUH
Nov 26 2007 7:57PM
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willywally
Posts: 145 - Karma: 10
woooo snooowwwww
Nov 27 2007 7:46PM
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shoenice22
Posts: 646 - Karma: 11
looks like you've proved me wrong dude. Atleast it's not snowing outside or anything right?
Nov 27 2007 8:03PM
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Tbrody
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 685
guess someone has been good
Nov 28 2007 12:06AM
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tha_king
Posts: 136 - Karma: 11
damn beat me to the punch.  you can thank me for praying extra hard for you lost souls.

PRAISE THE LORD
Nov 28 2007 11:55AM
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